Ultimatum time... now what?

[Bloomer]

I've been posting about my current situation here https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=270664.0;all to catch you up. For a summary: I have been with my dBPDh for over 3 years. He was dxd almost a year ago and has been doing therapy since then. He started group DBT in the fall. Both are once a week. I wish when he started therapy things just got better but they got much worse, worse than ever in summer 2014. After that the resentment I had exploded. I have been in therapy our entire relationship. I switched to psychotherapy, 2x/week in July 2014. It's been very intense, and possibly part of why my emotions have been so high. Fast forward: H had a meltdown last week while I was away. I came home, he was suicidal/all over the place. I went to therapy with him to his T. It didn't go well. Since then I've tried to be nice but every time I open up and lean in, he pulls away somehow. I finally stopped leaning in after I made dinner Monday night. He pulled away, said he'd give me space. That space looked like him trying to get me to decide if I was leaving, staying, etc. every time we're in the same room. Of course, I explode. I keep telling him to stop pressuring me, that I know my anger is really bad but I need space to get it together. He refuses to do a trial separation because he already moved to this country for me.

I feel like we're stuck in a tug-o-war. Last night he told me he felt like I didn't care he was sick. So I started nicely asking him questions about what his symptoms are,etc. (He hid this from me while he was away, so I didn't know what was going on until I got home.) Then he didn't want to tell me. So I left it. This is how we operate. I push away bc I can't win, he makes me feel bad. I make an effort and he pushes me away. I pull away more.

He has a doctor's appointment today to see what's going on with his symptoms. I can't go because I have meetings for work. He feels like I'm not being supportive (of course). This morning he put all the laundry in on the wrong setting and didn't use a garment bag for some of my delicates. I texted him and said "Please just leave my laundry aside next time. I know you don't mean to do it but we've talked about it many times and I think that would just be best." He accused me of being angry again. While I might have been irritated, I made an effort to be courteous. He responded that I was so insensitive bc he has an appointment today and laundry wasn't high on his priority list and he doesn't know what's going to happen, etc. I told him that my T told me I need to express my needs/ feelings in a reasonable way or I will keep exploding. He keeps telling me to deal with my anger, but when I try to take steps to handle things reasonably, it still isn't the right thing. I can't win.

After this exchange, he asked me to go to therapy with him on Saturday. I said I didn't think it would be good bc we don't have anything new to discuss right now. He said I can either go to therapy or move out bc he can't handle my anger any more and needs to take care of himself so he can be happy (the irony of him saying this to me gives me head spins). I told him I kept asking for space and he just kept pushing me. He stuck with it and went on about how I can stay angry and he can't change the past but he's not going to deal with me. Now, I've fully admitted that my anger about the past isn't good. I know it needs dealt with whether we stay together or not. If we're staying together, I need some SPACE without constant pressure from him and he can't do it. I have been taking space but any time we're together, he's back on the subject. It's never ending. Hasn't stopped all week.

I don't know what to do. I haven't been feeling very motivated because every time I jump back in, he pushes me away. I'm seriously wondering if there's just too much trauma. My T strongly believes I have some PTSD and I don't know if I can get over that if I stay. I do love him and care about him but are relationships really supposed to put you through this much? Is it really healthy to stay with someone who will never be able to think about things in a rational way without working at it? And is the ultimatum about one therapy session just a threat. I have no idea.

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[Notwendy]

I think much of this is smoke and mirrors with the main issue that your trip and the encounter has overwhelmingly dysregulated him. The rest is his just spitting it out.

I don't think you did anything really wrong in the r/s as you both agreed to an open relationship. I think the Tinder added an element of danger, that I don't think is wise, and this may have added more fear to his situation. However, many people with BPD don't say what they mean or mean what they say, or they may say it in the moment.

I don't think he had a clue what it would feel like if you were with someone else, and I don't think he is able to handle the feelings. I think it triggered a break for him.

However, you aren't the cause of his break- he is, his disorder is. You may be part of the situation, but this is his reaction and you can't control it. He will blame everything on you, but that's smoke and mirrors. It could be the laundry, his dinner, what you do, anything, if he's in blame mode, he will find something to blame you.

But inside, I think its the idea that you were with someone else, and he can't address that because he agreed to it. He may even be so dysregulated, he can't process it.

I can't read minds, but this is my best guess.

[Bloomer]

I think he's confused about being open as he goes between being into it (literally being turned on by it) and then throwing it at in an argument (last was Sunday). He does tell me I've done nothing wrong, we agreed on trying this out, etc. so that's good I guess. I think no matter how I met someone, he would have freaked out about me not checking in. I think even if I went out to a bar on my own in the city I was in and didn't check in, he would have freaked out about that. There being a date made me going NC worse. I think even if I had known the person and it was a guy he didn't know, even if it was an old friend, he might have freaked out. Anything unknown basically, he would have freaked out.

I agree that this was triggering and confusing for him. And we probably all know that confusion often equals anger. Smoke screen or not, I need to be sure of my decision. I've been on the fence for quite a while. If I decide not to go to therapy, because by my standard I don't see what goal we're trying towards. My anger isn't going to go away in one session, with him, that I've been forced to attend. If that's what he wants to talk about, I don't see the point. I know it's a problem, I'm trying to get it under control. What else is there to discuss? I need space, he knows that too. I really don't understand why we need a session right now.

[Bloomer]

I'm pretty convinced that it doesn't matter what I do. I was thinking about it and last night I was very tense and definitely not nice early in the evening bc I took our dog to the vet for the bite he suffered that wasn't treated while I was away. When I got back, H immediately started in on me about my anger issues and deciding if I was going to stay or not, etc. I was upset about the dog and voiced that and definitely was angry. He doesn't get why it is so upsetting that he didn't know he should take the dog to the vet or ask the dog's owner for her number in case we needed to contact her... .any way, eventually we watched tv in silence then he went to bed without a word. I went and told him that I tried to explain our dynamic to him and he denied it existed. I pointed out that he wanted me to express concern about his being sick and when I finally started asking him, he didn't want to tell me. I was really calm and used a nice tone. I told him I love him and will always care about him, no matter what. That I hoped his appointment went well and I wanted to know what happened. And that I was sorry I couldn't go bc I had to be on my meetings for work. He just said ok and didn't seem very enthused. I said good night and went back to the living room.

This morning he asked if I could put the laundry in the dryer for him, I said sure. I sent him the message starting with the words "Could you please". I have been trying to be nicer. I know my anger isn't good. And when I make the effort, he clenches down on me. This morning I for some reason tried to explain that I needed him to give me space, I know I need to deal with my anger but it won't happen in T with him, it's my own issue. He said I need to go to his T to forgive him. I said that won't happen in a session. He then said he expects me to go this Saturday and every Saturday and I just shut down. So, he will have me come to his therapy, HIS time to work on HIS issues and I can go to therapy THREE times a week! Are you kidding me! So I said this is futile, I can't let you force me into doing things any more and he told me to pack up my stuff or let him know if I refused to leave so he could make arrangements. So I guess it's solved.

[Bloomer]

He stopped home from work before his appointment and I was calm. I tried explaining that he needed his own space in therapy and that if we were going to do MC it should be separate from his therapy time. He said he had group and didn't need that. I disagreed. I tried to tell him I'd been making an effort since last night and he just wasn't acknowledging it.

I had just gotten out of the shower and went to the living room to change, when he followed me, I said I wanted to change so I could get back to work (I work from home). He blocked me from going back into the bedroom and when he moved quickly I flinched. I'm terrified of him. I screamed bc I was so triggered and went to the bathroom to change. I started crying.

He doesn't love me.

There are no pros to staying with me any more.

I'm a ___ty person.

He'll be much happier without me but I'll just be awful bc I'm the nastied b*tch he's ever met in his life.

I can't let go of the past.

I won't do marriage counseling (on his terms).

I don't have respect for him and he's getting out while he's still young.

All of his stuff will be gone in a few days.

He's done apologizing for the past.

He's been thinking this for 3 days and I blew my chance.

He doesn't even acknowledge that I was nice last night. It doesn't matter. He literally told me it doesn't matter that I tried to be nice. I pushed him away so he no longer loves me. He has fallen out of love with me.

The fact that I put up with him for 3 years means nothing to him.

He doesn't recognize that I have PTSD.

Then he asks if I'm still not coming to marriage counseling. So clearly he's saying everything just to force my hand. I told him if he didn't love me, I didn't see the point in marriage counseling.

[Bloomer]

He's taking me off his health insurance immediately, particularly because I have a procedure scheduled tomorrow. I'm having a very bad panic attack.

I went to the bedroom and locked the door. He told me he was transferring money from savings, so I quickly logged in and transferred first bc I don't trust him not to take all the money. I took half plus what he owed for credit cards (not even the full amount) and promised he'd give me. Then he talked about how I made financial decisions without him.

I got the credit card back from him. It's in my name and he's an authorized user. I need to delete my discover card info from his laptop while he's away at the doctor.

He says he stopped loving me the moment I said I wouldn't agree to his terms on marriage counseling. I obviously don't respect him because I wouldn't take a minute to text him and check in. I'm a broken person apparently. He's never witnessed anything like my behavior before in his life. He has to go to the hospital on his own because I don't care about him (even though I've told him I have meetings and no one to cover for me and that is the truth).

He is clearly angry that I won't agree to his exact terms on marriage counseling. He's saying anything he can to force me into it. If I did it now, I don't think I'd ever get over all the pain he's caused. I am going to assume this is truly the end. I can't imagine being with him after this. He gave me no space and just waiting for me to calm down and then he tried to strong arm me. As he yelled at me through the door at the end about how awful I am and how he doesn't love me bc I clearly don't love him I stayed silent. I'm quite rattled.

He sent me a text after I left that said "Here's a bit of reality for you. You make more than me so you're going to be paying me for lost income." I think I'm having what is known as a breakdown. And he's coming home after his appointment and I don't know what to do. I'm terrified to leave my dog or things to him right now.

[HappyNihilist]

Bloomer, I am so, so sorry that you're in such emotional distress, and that your husband is speaking to and treating you this way.   This is a very intense, painful, difficult situation.

It sounds like you are both triggered and distressed. He has dysregulated, and it is understandably triggering you, and now you're both caught up in a whirlwind of intense emotions and distorted reality.

Right now, he is unloading all of his negative feelings onto you. You will be the "bad guy" no matter what you do, as you already see.

You can't allay his deep-seated fears; all you can do is take care of yourself and try to minimize the damage. I think you might find some helpful advice and information by revisiting the Decision Making Guidelines here, especially Stop the Bleeding and Take a Step Backward.

[Notwendy]

Boomer, I am also sorry you are going through this. When someone is angry and emotionally distressed, it's really impossible to think very clearly. It's just the way we are made. All those hormones and neurotransmitters change the brain to fight or flight, and so discussing something with clarity and staying calm is hard to do. He may be dysregulated, but this affects all of us to some extent.

One thought about the MC. MC isn't always about staying together. When we first started MC, my H refused to go if not staying together was ever considered. She assured him that her main goal was keeping people together. Then she said, in the event that a couple ever decided not to stay together, that outcome would be better if they had worked on their communication and other issues because high conflict couples have high conflict marriages and even higher conflict divorces. So her opinion is that is is better to help couples communicate through that process too if it ever comes to that.

One thing that MC helps is on our triggers. When we get triggered in MC, the T helps us each process and calm down instead of the whole discussion escalating. She's a referree in a sense. So sometimes I know that if I need to say something that could be triggering, waiting for the MC session is better than going down that path at home with him alone.

You and H may be able to have some better discussions in MC... .one reason to go, no matter what you decide because clearly, nothing you say will come across to him in the state he is in now. A MC can keep things from escalating too high.

[Grey Kitty]

  This sounds really tough for you, to say the least.

Do you have someplace you can go and stay for a few days at least? (I thought you said your sister was supportive--does she have a guest room?)

I'm sure that your H will react badly to that sort of abandonment, but you are so triggered and he is so dysregulated... .you just need some space. now.

I wish I could offer useful suggestions on how to deal with all the crazy things he's demanding of you.

[formflier]

 

Hang in there Bloomer!

I think it will be good for you to focus on some big picture issues. 

It is a good thing that you husband is in and seems open to therapy.

However... there seems to be some confusion about how to properly go about therapy. 

IC is for him... .it should be rare for you to go or interact with that therapist. 

Same for you... your therapist is yours.

MC is not for either of you... .it is for your r/s.  It would be great if these people were all in the same practice... .so that the care can be coordinated... .

In some situations... .like mine... .there are kids and other family members involved and a family therapist is involved.  That persons focus in on how the family unit functions.


Also... .dealing with accusations of having certain feelings.  This is a boundary issue... .goes both ways.  Don't ever assume you know your partners emotion... .if he tells you... you have it. 

Same for him... .if he says you are angry... .try to gently turn that... .ask him if he is asking about your emotions out of concern... .or something similar.  The goal is that you get to the place where he asks about your emotions... .please honestly share them when asked.

Hang in there!