You shouldn't be going on holidays You are just waiting for me to die

[Methuen]

It just never ends.

This afternoon at work I got the following text from mom:

"I am just too sick but I want you to have your needed. I might have to admit myself to hospital if I don't get improve.  Daily I get worse."

She sent a similar text to my H.

We leave on our trip tomorrow.

After work I jumped in my car and paid an impromptu visit to mom's case manager.  I introduced myself in person, and updated her on this latest.  My H has emailed the case manager after the trip to emerg when she discontinued her heart medication, and emerg prescribed home care for while we are away on our trip.  That was 5 days ago, and home care is in place starting tomorrow.  For our next trip (November), the case manager said we would be able to book respite, and said it would be a temporary involuntary institution placement.  We will have to see if that plays out as easily as she made it sound today.

Meanwhile, our D and SO went to visit her at her house and brought her an ice cream at the end of their work day.  Miraculously, they reported her "her usual self".  She devoured the ice cream which didn't look like a person suffering from nausea and needing to go to emerg.  She indicated no issue to them, and the visit was "normal".

So the texts to me and H were each designed to sabotage our trip and guilt us into staying home.  Eight years ago, I took the bait and cancelled a trip with the entire family including our two adult children to a beach destination.  Eight years later, I am going on the camping trip with H.  I am just in disbelief that my own mother would try to make us stay home and miss our trip, when she is fine.  I just can't believe it.

[Notwendy]

Mine does the same thing. But because we don't live near her, she hires help to just be with her whether she needs it or not. To her, if she feels she needs something, someone must be there immediately. She will push the assistance button every 10 seconds. While it does help that I am not in a close enough distance to do this- she can still call, and text, and at times it's phone calls, texts, or deciding she needs to go to emergency.

This also happened when my father was ill. She'd call and say he was very sick and to come quickly. I'd arrange someone to be with the kids and jump in the car- but when I got there, Dad would be stable, home health on the way.

I think the reason behind this, and with your mother too, is that she doesn't want to be alone. Dad was her emotional caretaker, and we were too when we were at home and we still are when we visit and by phone. I wanted to be there for Dad and I eventually realized that BPD mother could leverage that to get me to come to be there for her. Dad was happy to see me come - for her needs. He was fine on his own, he would be able to read or go on his computer. He needed assistance with household tasks but others could do that for him too. When I visited, I would do these things but with him, it was a visit- he enjoyed seeing me. I wasn't there for the purpose of meeting his emotional needs---I realized that my parents wanted me there for BPD mother and so these "come quickly" calls were for that purpose.

One one hand, BPD mother does have some physical issues at her age, but she has large emotional needs. I think what your mother is doing, ( mine too) is BPD related because- they don't perceive their uncomfortable emotions as being their emotions. They see it as something external to them- the fault of someone else, or something else.

Or they have found that someone will meet a physical need more than an emotional need and so present that as a reason. Needing groceries, needing someone to pick up their medicine. My mother will enlist someone to do a trivial task for her and it has to be done right now, by that person, and in a certain way. She will say she need something like a toothbrush, and if we say "just call downstairs, they will bring you one" her reply is no- "so and so" has to go out and get it for me. It's the doing, not the item she wants and if the person goes out of their way to do it for her, the item has more value to her. She somehow feels special when people make large efforts for her.

Eventually I had to have some boundaries on my mother's "come quickly" calls. The risk of doing that is that one might miss a time when we felt we should be there but I could see that her requests were emotionally driven for her. The reaction on her part to my boundaries was over the top- I think what you are seeing is something similar- an extinction burst to your decision to take some time for you and your family.

I am just in disbelief that my own mother would try to make us stay home and miss our trip, when she is fine.  I just can't believe it.

Yes, here is the shocker. For me too, with both my parents. Didn't they consider that when I drop everything, arrange for child care, drive to see them-- for what turned out to be a non emergency situation for Dad and it was to caretake my mother's feelings- that- I was leaving my own kids, paying for childcare? Didn't they care that I had a long drive? I realized that no- they didn't- because they saw my purpose as to meet their needs. Our mother's take victim perspective. Other people don't have needs.

This comes as a shock because, it's not something we ever imagine a parent thinking like that. Most parents show some concern for their children's well being. They'd understand that an adult child has their own family and they'd want that child to enjoy time with them. But this kind of thinking is absent for my mother. I think she's overwhelmed by her own feelings, or perhaps she doesn't actually care. She can be very cold and cruel sometimes.

It's difficult also because, they are aging and have real needs, and we'd like to be there for them when we can. But I think that, ( and for your mother too) even if we did nothing else but attend to their needs, it would not be enough for them. I think the best you can do is decide what you are willing to do and what your boundaries are. Enjoy your holiday- because you have put medical help in place for your mother while you are gone. That is the best you can do.

[zachira]

Not surprising and yes, it hurts to be so badly treated by your own mother. Have a great vacation!

[TelHill]

Methuen,  Your mom's physical health is fine.  She'll never be on board with your decisions if they don't align perfectly with her wants.  Her behavior, like my dBPD mom's, won't change for the better.

She has mandated home health care looking in on her once daily.  She knows how to contact authorities should she truly need help.

I agree that it's unbelievable that their actions show low little they care for us. My immediate and extended family treat me like chattel. 

If I were you, I would go on this vacation.  Her behavior is causing you to hesitate rather than her physical health.

[Methuen]

I think that despite everything,  I’ve had blinders on and always convinced myself she loves me.   The evidence says otherwise.  A self absorbed person is just unlikely to be capable of love in my experience.  We are on the road starting our trip and I am at peace with it. 

[I Am Redeemed]

I’m glad you went on the trip, Methuen. It sounds like that was the absolute best decision you could make for yourself right now.

I think it is a little shocking, disappointing, and very sad when we realize that a parent is so self-absorbed that they genuinely do not consider our needs, wants, comfort, happiness, wellbeing, etc.

My father had COPD towards the end of his life, and he used to have panic attacks frequently in the mornings. He would wake up, have a hard time catching his breath, and then panic which made it even harder to breathe. He would call an ambulance every single time and call me to come right away. It didn’t matter that I had multiple young children at home and couldn’t arrange childcare at the drop of a hat. He expected me to come because he expected me to be as hyper vigilant and anxious about his health as he was. That meant I cared, and was doing what a “good daughter” was expected to do. He couldn’t see that he was running me ragged with the panic and the ambulance trips (sometimes two or three times a week) expecting me to be there every single time. Emotional manipulation. He would guilt trip me if I didn’t come, didn’t come quick enough, or didn’t display an appropriate amount of fear that he might die any moment.

It’s like a game they play- “Prove You Love Me” and they make up the rules as they go along. They are constantly scanning their environment for signs that they’re going to be abandoned, so they engage in actions that feel emotionally manipulative to us in order to get the never ending need for reassurance met in the moment. I think it’s tied to their abandonment fears as well as the object constancy issues. And no, anyone else’s feelings or needs are not considered- that doesn’t work within the context of the “prove you love me” principle. The objective is to get reassurance for themselves and they are oblivious to how it affects others.

[PearlsBefore]

I think it is a little shocking, disappointing, and very sad when we realize that a parent is so self-absorbed that they genuinely do not consider our needs, wants, comfort, happiness, wellbeing, etc.

It’s like a game they play- “Prove You Love Me” and they make up the rules as they go along. They are constantly scanning their environment for signs that they’re going to be abandoned, so they engage in actions that feel emotionally manipulative to us in order to get the never ending need for reassurance.

a) You're too polite, they ARE emotionally manipulative - they don't just appear to us to be ;)

b) Yeah, the top paragraph I quote hits the nail on the head - but one of the reasons I so strongly suggest reading Dr. Christine Lawson's magnum opus on BPD motherhood is because it has a classicist underpinning pre-dating the Linehan-derived models, and Lawson focuses heavily on the fact that years or decades before you wake up and realise it, you already realised it as a child - the thing is you never realised that was abnormal, you assumed everyone's parents genuinely didn't care about needs, wants, comfort, happiness, or health of anyone but themselves if it came down to it - or half the world was like Parent A and half the world like Parent B...the absolute destruction in life this thinking causes, when children are subconsciously exposed to it. My primary dBPD spent years arguing it was demonic possession, not mental illness...as I grow older, I don't dispute it as quickly as I once did.

[Tangled mangled]

So glad you are finally on your way. Enjoy your time away on holiday and I pray your mind remains at peace on your retreat. You deserve it.

It’s one of the most difficult aspects of dealing with a parent with a PD to realise that love is non existent or at best conditional.

[Methuen]

It’s like a game they play- “Prove You Love Me” and they make up the rules as they go along. They are constantly scanning their environment for signs that they’re going to be abandoned, so they engage in actions that feel emotionally manipulative to us in order to get the never ending need for reassurance met in the moment. I think it’s tied to their abandonment fears as well as the object constancy issues. And no, anyone else’s feelings or needs are not considered- that doesn’t work within the context of the “prove you love me” principle. The objective is to get reassurance for themselves and they are oblivious to how it affects others.

This perfectly describes it, and really spoke to me.  It’s bizarrely reassuring to know there are people who truly understand.

We are on the 5th day of our trip, which is mostly off grid.  Apparently my mom was obsessing on the first day about home care not coming at the time of day she demanded.  Not surprising.

While she’s not out of my head, I am working on managing the time I spend thinking about her.  I’m hoping that 3 weeks away gives home care enough time to witness her issues a little more  close up. 

Thanks everyone for the continued support. 

[Notwendy]

I think that despite everything,  I’ve had blinders on and always convinced myself she loves me.   The evidence says otherwise.  A self absorbed person is just unlikely to be capable of love in my experience.  We are on the road starting our trip and I am at peace with it.  

Me too, Methuen. I think we assume that all mothers love their children. I also think we are told that. I recall people telling me "of course your mother loves you". People can't imagine otherwise. We don't either- because, we want to believe that our mothers love us.

I know mine doesn't love me, not because of me but because she's not capable of loving anyone. She's so self focused- and overwhelmed by her own feelings that there's no room for considering anyone else. I also have wondered if she might have sociopathic tendencies. She does not have empathy.

As a child- my impression was that, if I  was good enough, then my mother would love me. But we know that "good enough" isn't attainable for anyone due to their disorder.

There was a contrast between how my father's family treated us kids and how my mother treats me. I know they loved me. It was effortless for them, and for me, it was a given. It wasn't contingent on me trying to be good enough for them. I also saw how my friends' mothers behaved towards them- I knew that this was different somehow, but as a kid, I didn't quite understand it yet.

Where I could see best it was when my father passed away, because anyone who knew me could see that I was grieving but my mother could not perceive that.  I realized that- in order to love someone, one has to know them- as a person, for who they are. I don't think my mother can do that- I think she sees her projections on to people and these can vary according to how she feels and how well they are meeting her needs at the time.

I have since that time seen her be emotionally and verbally abusive to some of her caregivers too. It's not me, it's not them. I don't even think it's because she's intentionally evil. I think she sees her worst feelings projected on to people, instead of the actual people that they are.

If your mother doesn't love you Methuen, it's because she can't do that with anyone. Rather than trying to be "good enough" to her - do what you feel is "good enough" in terms of helping her. It's hard to feel that you have done enough when she's complaining but I don't think our mothers are able to give that kind of approval.

[zachira]

Methuen,
Your mother feels unloved and abandonned, so sadly she is unable to love anybody even her own daughter despite all the love and care you have shown her.

[TelHill]

My mom was on the far end of the BPD spectrum as far as I can remember yet I held onto hope she would get a bit more normal. It's understandable to feel that way. We deserve a loving mother and a responsible parent.

Am still working my way out of hoping for that. Am much better. . Sometimes you just get tired of being mom's Conceirge. That pushed me to stop.

[I Am Redeemed]

My older sister (ubpd) is the one who raised me. It has taken over 45 years for me to come to the realization that no, she does not love me. That is a very lonely feeling, even though I do have love, care, and support from other people.

Knowing that the person who provided most of your "care" as a child is not capable of loving you or seeing you for who you are instead of a distorted projection is a deep feeling of grief. It's a loss. It's grieving for something that I never had (through no fault of my own), just as if my parents had died when I was little or something. I was born into a family that was not able to provide love and emotional support. For a long time, I thought that my sister loved me in her own way despite her mental health issues. Now I fully realize that she does not and can not.

It still hurts, it's still a loss, and it still feels lonely, even though I know it is not my fault.

[zachira]

Isn't this whole site about being involved with close family members or in close relationships with people who have no capacity to love themselves and other people, and how to heal from these losses by learning to have self compassion and developing high levels of self awareness to help us set healthier boundaries with nearly everyone?

[Notwendy]

Yes, but I think there's more to it. There's some wrestling with our conscience. If these people we are concerned with were acquaintance's, we might have little to do with them, but these are significant relationships- and there's some meaning in that.

Why is it so difficult to just cut all contact with them? In some situations, going NC is the best decision for someone- but it isn't easy to do and it's often a last resort.

And self absorbed people tend to pair up with people who over-function as caretakers and these family patterns can prevail. I wonder if there's some evolutionary function to this. Humans, as a species would not survive if all functioned as individuals. We form families and communities. Maybe we are somehow emotionally hard wired to hold on to certain relationships.

I think I have managed to process that my mother doesn't love anyone. I don't expect that from her. It was a shock to realize it, but I know it now. My larger struggle that she's my mother, she's elderly and helpless and also mentally ill vs the need to have the kind of boundaries I might have with a stranger who I don't trust. That middle ground is hard to balance, if that is even possible. More like leaning to one side or the other.

[TelHill]

My elderly dBPD mother has always been abusive and nasty to me. She's hateful.  She can't do housework or yardwork now which used to calm her down for a bit.

I can see her a few times a month for a short time. Any more than that I can't function for a few days.

I sometimes wonder if she's a psychopath and not BPD. Nothing  about her seems remotely normal.

It may be me not wanting to admit the depth of her mental illness due to shame or fear of it rubbing off on me. It could be why I choose VLC and not NC. 

[Notwendy]

Same here TelHill- I also have wondered about this because sometimes she seems to enjoy manipulating and being hurtful and other times seems unaware of how her behavior impacts people. She has no empathy as far as I can tell. She's also very cold.

When she seems to be affectionate, it seems fake. Like she knows it's how she is supposed to act towards her children but it's not sincere. She also lies a lot and we can't tell if she's being truthful or not.

I have been LC as well.  

[Methuen]

Knowing that the person who provided most of your "care" as a child is not capable of loving you or seeing you for who you are instead of a distorted projection is a deep feeling of grief. It's a loss. It's grieving for something that I never had (through no fault of my own), just as if my parents had died when I was little or something. I was born into a family that was not able to provide love and emotional support. For a long time, I thought that my sister loved me in her own way despite her mental health issues. Now I fully realize that she does not and can not.

It still hurts, it's still a loss, and it still feels lonely, even though I know it is not my fault.

This.  Loss is loss, and this is a big one, which I think many of us can relate to.  The grieving for me has been a long process.  It’s a struggle to come to grips with a mother figure who doesn’t fit the social norm of a mother who loves unconditionally and is nurturing.  I think we all have a need to feel nurtured and loved as a child.  Recognizing that may not have been the case and grieving the loss is a huge task we have to bear.  My solace is the belief I have broken that cycle. I wasn’t perfect, but I hope I was good enough. Zachira always makes the point that having a bpd loved one is a lifelong sorrow.  The grieving process helps, but the loss is never erased.

I’m halfway through our camping trip, which is mostly off the grid.  I’m starting to wonder how mom will react when I get home.  

I’m also wondering how she will react when we tell her we will be gone again for 3 weeks in November, which will include both her grandchildren.  Her entire family will be out of the country for 3 weeks.   Not just on a camping trip.

We won’t be sharing that news for another month.  I was able to have a good conversation with her home health case manager the day before we left.  Mom’s escalated behaviors and trips to emerg and attempts to sabatoge our trip by telling us she was dying was untenable.  I learned in that meeting there may be options for our November trip.  This is a relatively new case manager.  We will have to see what happens.

I also struggle with the contact with mom, which is another conversation on this thread.  Seeing her destabilizes me emotionally.  And yet I must do it because I am an only child, responsible for her, and she is helpless and dependent, but still has capacity to refuse assisted living.  I struggle with the obligations and the intensity of her projections.  It only stops when I am not around her.  LC is my tool, which I only managed to use by coming out of retirement and returning to work.  My H has been a godsend as he took over her grocery shopping and taking her to appointments.  He plays stupid with her and does not let her hold him emotional hostage, although she tries.  He comes home frustrated and exhausted after helping her, which wears on me terribly. Still, I have much to be thankful for.  Including this forum.  These conversations and opportunities to express ourselves to those who can truly empathize are incredibly important.

[Notwendy]

It's likely she will react to the news about your trips-  but you should go anyway. I think our mothers are accustomed to having power due to their behavior. You don't want to enable this- you can go on your trips- your decision isn't hers to control.

I am glad there's a case manager involved. Yes, your mother needs assisted living but from my own experience, it's not worked well with my mother. Her emotional issues and behavior are interfering with the resources she gets there too. Their issues are a part of who they are, wherever they are. The case manager can be very helpful- this way, someone else is helping you with this.

The loss of what I think of as a loving mother- that registered with me the most when my father got ill and passed away. I already knew she could be verbally and emotionally abusive. I didn't think she'd go as far with it as she did but once she did, I realized that she didn't have caring feelings for me. This was an illusion based on my own wants- don't we all want a loving mother? I think we fill in the blanks on this one. And also my father would say" of course your mother loves you" which, as a child, you believe.

Interesting now as she had verbally abused me over the phone a while back while I was staying with her family and they heard it/saw me cry. She cares about what they think and so she's been complimenting me to them and to me now. It feels fake. At this point, I don't want any caring gestures from her. I don't want compliments from her.

[livednlearned]

I’m also wondering how she will react when we tell her we will be gone again for 3 weeks in November, which will include both her grandchildren.  Her entire family will be out of the country for 3 weeks.

Your mother's behavior in anticipation of this current trip suggests she doesn't do well when there is an extended period of time to process an impending departure date 

[Methuen]

I completely agree lnl.  Unfortunately my H disagrees.  He thinks it’s more responsible to give her notice, and says she would benefit by being given time to process it.   I’m thinking (to myself) “Really?  You want to go through this again X 100?”  Next time she will probably deliberately cause a near death experience to prevent us from leaving.  He’s thinking like a rational person.  Acting rationally with an irrational person doesn’t work, based on history.  He does so much to support me that I’m struggling to navigate our dissonance on this.  

What do you all think would be a good amount of advance notice to give her?  

My main argument to my H for delaying is to spare her the anxiety.  On the other hand I don’t want to give her so little notice that it’s a shock she doesn’t survive.

This is a prime example of how we have to overthink everything because of their emotional fragility. 

Everything is a dilemma.

[Notwendy]

I am more in agreement with you Methuen. It seems the more notice my BPD mother has to anticipate an event ( even a good one)- the more time she has to act out over it. Some things, I just don't inform her about. But something like leaving town- which your mother would need to be informed about, I would.

It is unfortunate that we overthink this, but we do it because of our experiences with these things. The main thing is that- we can anticipate a reaction- and there really isn't a certain amount of time of notice that will make this easier.

One thing I learned in 12 steps was to ask - what side of the fence I am on. If I am trying to manage someone else's feelings- I am not keeping on my side of the fence. The timing of this needs to be based on my own values/feelings.

Consideration for BPD mother does factor into the decision, because that is a value- for you and your H ( and for me too). It's not possible to change her feelings but you have to feel that you gave her ample notice to arrange home health and any support she might need while you are out of town. I think that's where your H is coming from as well. You both want to feel you gave enough notice.

Too much notice though, extends the drama - and that is also something I don't want to do- this is my side of the fence too. I can't change how my mother feels or reacts, but she also tends to focus on one thing that I did or didn't do and be upset about that.  

The timing is a "no-win" situation because, she will be upset about it anyway. So it comes down to my own values and my own boundaries. How much information does she need to know, how much is private. It's more like how do we hang on to our own raft in the middle of the emotional reaction, because we can't do anything about how she will react.

Methuen, I think the difference in how much notice between you and your H is a difference in doing what seems right to each of you. It's only a difference in time. You are both trying to do what seems right for your mother. This may only be a difference in custom, or what you are both used to. Or it may be that your H isn't as bothered by her reactions as you are- and this makes sense- he didn't grow up with her. Neither of you is "wrong"- it's different. My H doesn't have the same experiences with my mother as I have either.

I recall a time when there was a family reunion on my father's side of the family and we planned to go with the kids. This was a delicate situation. Dad was already deceased. BPD mother clearly disliked his family. They were cordial to her because of her connection to my father. I assumed that now they'd have nothing to do with each other now that they didn't have to. So she wasn't invited. Also, I understood that she'd feel hurt that we were making the effort to visit them and not her. I didn't want to hurt her feelings, but this is the family we bonded with as kids, as they took us in a lot, and we wanted to visit them.

I dreaded having to tell BPD mother- and I had to tell her. She'd have found out. Someone would have posted a picture on social media, someone would have told her. Although not knowing might have spared her feelings, that argument didn't hold up- I didn't want to hurt her feelings but I was also afraid of how she would react.

She did react and it was as expected. Strangely- she acted insulted. How dare they don't invite her? But she doesn't like them. Then she said she was never sending the kids presents for birthdays or holidays anymore. (as if that had anything to do with that). We had been telling her already to not send gifts- just cards anyway. Then she told us not to call her.

A few weeks later, she called me, as if nothing happened.  

[zachira]

Methuen,
Now that you know how to get home health care to take care of your mother while you are on vacation, you can go away. It seems you have two deadlines: one is to arrange the home health care which you probably need to do well in advance of your vacation. The other is letting your mother know much closer to the date of your departure that you will be leaving on vacation and when you will be back. When does your husband think you should tell your mother about your vacation and when do you think you should do so? Perhaps you could set up the home health care to start a few days before you leave, so that they will be in charge of handling any unnecessary trips to the emergency room and other crisis.

[livednlearned]

What do you all think would be a good amount of advance notice to give her?

It's a good question. At what point did she seem to start dysregulating with this recent trip? Did she hear mention of the trip and then file it away, dysregulating only as things started to get closer to departure?

I don't know if this suggestion is helpful because it's a lot of emotional labor ... a child psychologist helped me and H go out alone when SD26 was living with us. Before seeing the psychologist, H and I would go out and SD26 would blow up his phone and text things like "there's no point in living."

The first two times we left dinner and came home early. The child psychologist recommended that H tell SD26 a week in advance that we were going out, then keep casually reminding her throughout the week, suggesting offers of things they could do together the day we were going out. "Remember that LnL and I are going out Saturday night. You and I can grab coffee Saturday morning then go for a hike together. If you want we can make lunch together and if you want to work out together at the gym we can do that too." Then Saturday he was instructed to tell SD26 he was going to turn his phone off during dinner and would check in with her before heading home.

I had mixed feelings about all this. H asked me to make food for SD26 (she is weird about people making food for her). So H spent the day with SD26 while I cooked for her.

I'm not sure it was worth all that just to have 90 min with H.

But that's what the psychologist recommended we do (except for H asking me to make SD26 a meal).

[Methuen]

We are 2/3 of the way through our camping trip, and getting back to being “in the grid” more reliably. It has been wonderful and restorative so far. It’s so different from having the monkey on my back 24/7 when I’m at home and mother can text me anytime. And yes, I ignore many of them, and choose when to respond on my own time, but the monkey is still present with a vice like grip.  On this trip (out of service) and far away, there has been no monkey.  What a difference.

It's a good question. At what point did she seem to start dysregulating with this recent trip? Did she hear mention of the trip and then file it away, dysregulating only as things started to get closer to departure?

Exactly.  This appears to be what happens. We told her months ago about this trip.  The behaviors started a couple of weeks before we were due to leave, and just kept escalating right to our departure.

I don't know if this suggestion is helpful because it's a lot of emotional labor ... a child psychologist helped me and H go out alone when SD26 was living with us. Before seeing the psychologist, H and I would go out and SD26 would blow up his phone and text things like "there's no point in living."

The subject of S26’s texts, ie death (without being a direct suicide threat), parallels what is happening with my mother.  The difference is that in my elderly mother’s case, she says things like “I feel like I’m dying “ or “you’re waiting for me to die “, or “you don’t love me” . Then she decides to stop taking a heart medication.  Her pulse goes up to some crazy number ( 148?) and then she calls and tells us to take her to emergency.  After that episode which was 5 days before we left, the last one came the day before we left where she said “I don’t know if I will make it”.  After receiving that is when I went to see her case manager.

I had mixed feelings about all this. H asked me to make food for SD26 (she is weird about people making food for her). So H spent the day with SD26 while I cooked for her.

I can understand your mixed feelings very well.  I have very very mixed feelings about this as we are at the end of our personal resources and this plan is a huge investment of personal resources.  What I did do was drop in 3 days before we left and bring her another puzzle and visit. That was as much as I could do as I was working full time while getting ready for an intensive camping trip into the wilderness.  Not to mention I just don’t have the personal resources to deal with my mother.  What your child psychologist is suggesting is great in theory, but it can only work in practice at the cost of the “emotional caretakers”.  This is a problem when those caretakers don’t have emotional resources remaining.

As an aside, I am curious about why H asked you to cook for S26? Was it emotional, so that she would feel special, or is it because she doesn’t cook for herself?  I’m wondering if a remedy for you would be to bounce that back to H to cook the dinner- it’s a big ask.  What’s the point to being taken out to dinner if you have to cook it anyway?  It was an interesting ask by your H.  I get it - he was trying to set the night up for success and take care of S26’s feelings.  But I also wonder what she would learn from all this, and what she would expect next time you have date night. Just a curious question….

Zachira- that is a good suggestion which I will certainly do.  Sadly, this case manager is only temporary, and returning to her regular position at some point.  My goal is to set up mom’s care for our Nov trip before the caseworker returns to her other job.  And your point about starting the care before we leave is a really good one.  Thank you.

NW, your point about honouring our own values, and not mother’s feelings is a good one.  Her feelings are going to happen regardless, so what we need to do, is find the happy medium that is right for us. I needed that reminder, so thank you for that.  

So, we leave the beginning of Nov.  We are thinking of telling her the end of Sept, when her GC grandson is home for a little visit, and we are all together (incl granddaughter), since we are all traveling together.  The point of telling her when we are together is to make the shooting target equal on all of us, and not just me and H. This would be about 5-6 weeks before our departure.  I already know what will happen.  The talk about death and the behaviors will ramp up as it did this time.  She is selfish enough to sabotage our trip.  But elderly people need more time to adjust to something, and if she’s gotta accept care again, or even a different level of care, then she probably has a right to some advance notice.

Thoughts?

[Notwendy]

I agree with not giving too long notice.

I found that if BPD mother has a long time to think about something, the drama and trying to take control of the situations is over that time frame. The only way I know to lessen that is to have less notice.

Even for good things. For a family event/get together- she wants to have a say in the food served, who is invited- even if it's us hosting and paying for it, she still wants her say in it. It is better to give just enough notice for her to make plans.

I think enough notice to make plans for someone to help your mother when you go out of town is enough.

[Tangled mangled]

So, we leave the beginning of Nov.  We are thinking of telling her the end of Sept, when her GC grandson is home for a little visit, and we are all together (incl granddaughter), since we are all traveling together.  The point of telling her when we are together is to make the shooting target equal on all of us, and not just me and H. This would be about 5-6 weeks before our departure.  I already know what will happen.  The talk about death and the behaviors will ramp up as it did this time.  She is selfish enough to sabotage our trip.  But elderly people need more time to adjust to something, and if she’s gotta accept care again, or even a different level of care, then she probably has a right to some advance notice.

Thoughts?

My thoughts:
I think you are being extremely generous considering what your mum has already done before your current trip.
It makes a lot of sense sharing the news when everyone is present but for your own sanity’s sake , imo 2 weeks will be the maximum notice for bpd mother like yours.

On the other hand you are doing what’s best for you and maybe you will get to implement home care safely this time and not get involved when she starts throwing those shuts again

[I Am Redeemed]

I’m inclined to agree with something closer to two weeks, as well. However, I understand the idea of breaking the news when GC is there.

Perhaps you can see how this trip went with the home health care, and reach out to the case manager to arrange care for the next trip as well as for assistance in managing any emergency issues that pop up directly before your departure date of the next trip.

Does her PCP have a medical social worker on staff, or does the home health care agency have one? It may help to set up a consultation to talk about your concerns about your mother’s behavior (including the reckless discontinuation of medication) when dysregulating about your impending trips.

[GaGrl]

My intuition is saying two weeks notice would be best. If arrangements are in place at that time, your mother's attention can be focused on where and with whom she will be with.

After I retired, my husband and I spent a month in Europe. Had my son not been available to stay with my mom, it would have been tricky. She had a caregiver coming in three mornings a week, but it was apparent that at age 93, Mom was not able to be alone at night.

In spite of the obvious, she resisted any attempts to "tell her what to do." I had to be very careful in planning that month to ensure she was approving of any suggestions. Believe me, I was ready for that month away!

[livednlearned]

We are 2/3 of the way through our camping trip, and getting back to being “in the grid” more reliably. It has been wonderful and restorative so far.

 

The behaviors started a couple of weeks before we were due to leave, and just kept escalating right to our departure.

That's probably a good clue. Although the primary person to focus on is you and what feels ok for you. Sometimes people give me advice that I know is healthy and right, but it causes me a lot of stress. I often have to find a middle path that moves me in the right direction at a pace my nervous system can tolerate.

Maybe "We're thinking about a trip to Europe in Nov" 5 weeks before, then drop it. Four weeks in, "We'd like to do a trip with all the kids in Nov," then drop it. Three weeks in, "Might make more sense to pack a lot in and stay like 3 weeks," then drop it. Two weeks in, "GC is going to facetime you from Europe when we're there," or something like that?

I'm just thinking about the child psychologists suggestion to do a slow drip. I think it was also about H feeling like he did enough so when SD26 protest behaviors kicked into high gear, it was easier to manage them.

SD26 protest behaviors crescendoed the day of and peaked right before we walked out the door. What took some of the wind out of her sails, and what made it easier for H to go out, is that he had offered her more than enough time that day, which in essence was what gave him the strength to stick to the plan.

SD26 was clinging to him at the door with a bear hug, like a toddler hugging a parents' leg. A full-grown adult toddler. H took her arms and held them by her side and looked directly into her eyes and said "SD26, we had a nice day, we went to coffee, we hiked, we had lunch, we went to the gym. We spent all day together and now it's my time and I'm going out for a few hours." SD26 had a grin on her face and was giggling like it was a game but there was aggression to it.

Then when we got to the restaurant H checked his phone and there were multiple messages from SD26 saying she thought she heard an alarm going off. I texted my son (who was home and in his room) and he poked his head out of his door and said he didn't hear anything.

I think for H it helped to feel like he did everything he could. That made it easier to dismiss SD26 because she was asking for too much. Versus without a plan, he was a bit more dragged through the mud.

Then she decides to stop taking a heart medication.  Her pulse goes up to some crazy number ( 148?) and then she calls and tells us to take her to emergency.

Your mom is reckless with her health and seems to use it as a bargaining chip she can play when needed. She isn't going to change so I can see why you might expect the same from her in November. That does give you a chance to put some safeguards in place, even though I know it doesn't solve the problem of her harming herself to control what others do.

This might also play a role in how much time you give her. If receiving a self-threatening text helps to get a case manager involved, and you don't want that happening during the very busy 2 weeks before you leave, then that might influence when you tell her (this is how my thinking would go).

I can understand your mixed feelings very well.

Mixed feelings seems to be my new normal when it comes to SD26. The solutions often create distress, and then I have to manage that distress along with core issues. The optimal state is for SD26 to be able to self-soothe but since that isn't likely to happen without treatment and motivation, the remaining options seem to often leave me with mixed feelings.

What your child psychologist is suggesting is great in theory, but it can only work in practice at the cost of the “emotional caretakers”.  This is a problem when those caretakers don’t have emotional resources remaining.

So true. It enabled us to achieve a meagre goal (going out for 90 min) but ruined the day for both us, tbh. Some of it was H bargaining with himself, and me going along with it. The psychologist didn't say "spend all day with SD26 and have LnL cook for her" but that's what it turned into. H and I are better at communicating now (7 years later) but we can still do better. Back then, I went along with the plan because he was making changes and I saw my contribution as support.

What I think now, looking back, is that the emotional labor was like a form of hostage-taking. In exchange for an entire day and 3 meals, we spent 90 min together in a bit of a crap mood.

I am curious about why H asked you to cook for S26?

Appeasement. Sort of like negotiating with someone you know is going to abuse you in the hopes it will pay off. Which of course it never does.

SD26 is weird about people cooking for her. I learned when SS24 was here last week that his BPD mom is abusive about food but I didn't pry further.

One time H was on a trip and I wanted to use the week to get my dissertation done. I planned to hole up at the library and pull long days. So I told SD26 I was going to be out of pocket for the week, but would leave cash on the kitchen counter if she wanted to order take-out or get dinner with friends. She blew up H's phone with "LnL told me to get out of the house."

I also wonder what she would learn from all this, and what she would expect next time you have date night.

It was more what I learned for next time. I remember it wasn't a light-hearted fun night out because we were drained. If my memory is correct, there wasn't a next time.

Instead I moved toward hanging out with friends so I could have fun regardless of what H was doing. We had a really nice neighborhood tap house and became friends with neighbors who liked to spend time there Friday nights. When SD26 blew up H's phone and felt the need to head phone, friends offered to drive me home. Versions of that were on repeat for about a year and I think it was necessary to H could feel his own frustration enough to motivate real change. With me at his side every step of the way, it watered things down so he didn't have to feel the consequences of his choices so much.

With your mom, it seems like a conversation for you and your H to have about what you're willing to abide and for how long. You know yourself and your mom best -- having everyone there in order to deflect the ranting makes sense to me. It diffuses the anger into a group that she cannot behave badly in front of (to an extent). Whereas with you she has fewer limits and it's a lot for one person (or two, if H is there) to absorb.