Broke NC.. Omg.. what have I done, what now?

[Hlinthewiking]

I had made a previous topic about yesterday being my exBPDgf's birthday and I ended up sending her a huge text wishing her happy birthday and telling her how I felt about her and what she meant to me.

Her reply was everything I didn't expect... .She was so nice to me, I don't remember her being this nice to me, ever, she said I was the sweetest man she's ever been with and that she was in tears, shaking and that my text had made her so happy, she apologized for deleting me from Facebook, she saw a picture of me with another girl that someone had posted without my permission, she said she was sorry for everything that had happened and that I had made her realize about stupid things she did, she also said that she could meet a thousand men but I'd never change for her, I think that was BPD for "I met a lot of men since we broke up and I feel bad", but I may be wrong.

I don't know what to do, we are speaking now, we are both happy to speak to each other, I'm being a little bit more protective of myself though and trying to be less naive. She already attempted to convince me she didn't get involved romantically with a guy that I'm sure she did, not really my business, we weren't together even though it hurt me, so I didn't argue.

It's going to be hard not to recycle after talking like this, she shares my feelings and she really surprised me in the way she reacted, I'm also a lot healthier mentally then I was when I was with her, I wouldn't feel so bad about myself for the things she did if I was like this, the question is, would I remain this healthy minded back in the relationship with her? If she's the same, I would lean towards no, sleep deprivation alone and mental fatigue would crack me. She did start studying again and got into a new job, that would occupy her enough not to rely so much on me all the time.

[Pretty Woman]

What I love about this post is how self-aware you are. You are really rationalizing things out... .
Kudos, Friend!
 

Thing is this... .a leopard does not change it's spots.

I repeat: a leopard does not change it's spots.

You are absolutely logical in assuming she slept with the men she is saying she didn't. It sounds like she currently has no one in rotation or maybe a few intermediates and your text came at the right time. She likely truly is overjoyed! Overjoyed she can still get you back into a relationship.

Listen, I went through what you are going through now. I actually went to therapy to deal with her better thinking things had changed, esp when she told me what a mistake she made and how I was the love of her life.

What transpired is this... .I had already been burned so badly by this chick the trust was gone. There wasn't anything solid to rebuild on. She had cheated on me several times and hurt me so badly, by the end I really didn't care.

You sound like you do not trust her and that is probably a good thing. It is what will keep you safe.

We can't tell you what to do. All I will say is read the messages on these boards. You will find countless stories of people who went through this and you will see very few (if any) ended with a Happily Ever After!

[C.Stein]

It's going to be hard not to recycle after talking like this, she shares my feelings and she really surprised me in the way she reacted, I'm also a lot healthier mentally then I was when I was with her, I wouldn't feel so bad about myself for the things she did if I was like this, the question is, would I remain this healthy minded back in the relationship with her? If she's the same, I would lean towards no, sleep deprivation alone and mental fatigue would crack me. She did start studying again and got into a new job, that would occupy her enough not to rely so much on me all the time.

As hard as it might be to accept, chances are better than not things will not change.  See the pull for what it is.

For what it is worth I am a little envious of you because I never got any acknowledgement of the pain she caused me, nor even a glimmer of remorse or regret.  In fact she couldn't even acknowledge we even had a relationship let alone that I ever meant anything to her.  Be happy that you got this much.  

[Pretty Woman]

I second C. Stein. Somedays I just want contact to know I was right and this really is some insane sickness. You got contact which in my opinion equates to closure.

[Rayban]

I agree with Pretty Woman. Being self aware is a good  start. Nothing but pain could come out of this if you choose to re-engage. You wished her happy birthday, let her know how you felt now is the time to move on.
She was elated that you provided her with some major supply. Her ego was fed by you breaking no contact.  Make no mistake she has slept with many men including the dude she denied. Talking about the picture of the other woman on facebook is a form of flattery and manipulation that my ex liked to use. Her seeming jealous in a way flattered me, made me feel in demand. Don't fall for it.

Best case you become one of many options in her rotation.  Going back will also give her the occasion to punish you for going no contact on her. Remember this is not about you, it's about her accumulating objets that will boost her self worth and to validate her. She will not hesitate to abuse you to better control you not to leave her again.

[Pretty Woman]

Well written, Rayban!

[Hlinthewiking]

Thank you all for the support  .

You are right, I don't trust her, when we were together I had hope, not trust, she was the best liar I ever met, she would joke sometimes with me about random stuff and I would believe in her, then she would laugh. I remember once she convinced me she was a minor, told me she was 17 and she made me believe it for a whole day, she looks young so I believed her, when she started laughing and said she was joking at me I had to ask to see her ID to make sure she was over 18.

One thing I did trust her though, she was very jealous, so was I, but I wasn't toxic and I really did trust her that she wouldn't cheat on me, I don't think she did, it's possible she did, but I don't think so, I think she might have spoken to guys on social media if at all.

You got contact which in my opinion equates to closure.

That's the good thing I got out of this, you are right. I feel light, lifted, I said everything I wanted to say and she understood and felt it in that moment, if she decides to forget it in the future or deform it, that's on her illness, not on me.

 If I decide not to recycle maybe it will be hard at first for making contact, but I think in the long run breaking NC might have been best. The only problem is that my anxiety is back and I feel my heart became one of those old steam engines from cartoons and talking to her brought my memories closer again and made me want to go back in the blink of an eye.

  Rayban That seems so evil :/, I do not see her that way, I do believe you are right in most points, I just don't believe or want to accept she does all that consciously.

About the picture, I believe her on that matter, I know her and when they posted that picture I got angry and I assumed she would do this and she did exactly after the picture was posted. I think she just said it to justify herself, not to boost my ego, if I had unfriended her I would have felt bad too, I can translate and post what she said later.

[C.Stein]

You are right, I don't trust her, when we were together I had hope, not trust, she was the best liar I ever met

If you don't have trust you really have nothing.  I know for me, the constant anxiety caused by wondering if my ex was being honest with me was debilitating at best.  I also had hope ... a lot of hope ... .but when the love of your life can tell a lie easier than the truth what is the foundation of the relationship built on?  What was there to hope for?

[once removed]

take this slowly. you are going from happy birthday <------> recycle, and engaged in deep conversations about the relationship. id feel anxious too.

trust is built slowly and over time. presently you say you dont have that so it seems like its getting ahead of things to look beyond that. you want to be in touch, and you are. see where that goes. this is about you - not her ego, but your expectations and your goals.

should you decide you want to restart the relationship, i encourage you to learn the skills and tools on the Improving board.

[Confused108]

I will telll you this . They don't change unless they go for therapy and stick with it.
If you feel she is lying to you about sleeping with all these guys after your breakup you are probably correct. If you recycle with your ex I'm afraid it will only be a matter of time until she pulls the same stuff on you again. Do you really want to go thru that again? I say close the door to her and move on. It does get better and we certainly deserve it! Good luck.

[Infern0]

I will just repeat my story of what happened to me which begun similar to this.

I had been in NC for around 4 months, a mutual acquaintance bumped into her in a store and called me afterwards to tell me she looked terrible and depressed etc. In his words "she really isn't looking well"

I held off for a while but against my better judgement I reached out with a text "are you ok"

I thought I'd be ignored but to my surprise she was very receptive. We ended up in a recycle within about a week.

She told me that she hadn't been with anyone since me, was working on herself etc. I found out a few weeks later that was a huge lie and she'd been with multiple people (including more than one at the same time)

The damage from that recycle is still effecting me now more than a year on and I'm in a worse place than I was when I reached out to her.



I'm not going to say don't do it but think long and hard and protect yourself.  Maybe you are emotionally strong enough to handle it, I wasn't.

Best of luck in whatever you decide.

[Hlinthewiking]

Thanks guys, really. Had a rough night, dreamed about her, we didn't speak after yesterday noon, I sent her a message just now, probably a mistake, I just though since we broke NC yesterday and I really wanted to talk to her, it would be better to do it now then a week from now.

I miss her so much, this is so lame, I really don't know what to do. If I decide to go back I would try to convince her to do therapy though, I think she could go for it, since I'm already going it wouldn't look like I was telling her "you're the problem, go fix it".

[anothercasualty]

Her reply was everything I didn't expect... .She was so nice to me, I don't remember her being this nice to me, ever, she said I was the sweetest man she's ever been with and that she was in tears, shaking and that my text had made her so happy, she apologized for deleting me from Facebook, she saw a picture of me with another girl that someone had posted without my permission, she said she was sorry for everything that had happened and that I had made her realize about stupid things she did, she also said that she could meet a thousand men but I'd never change for her, I think that was BPD for "I met a lot of men since we broke up and I feel bad", but I may be wrong.



It's going to be hard not to recycle after talking like this, she shares my feelings and she really surprised me in the way she reacted, I'm also a lot healthier mentally then I was when I was with her, I wouldn't feel so bad about myself for the things she did if I was like this, the question is, would I remain this healthy minded back in the relationship with her? If she's the same, I would lean towards no, sleep deprivation alone and mental fatigue would crack me. She did start studying again and got into a new job, that would occupy her enough not to rely so much on me all the time.

Been there, done that (more than once). We so want them to be "healed" that we look for any indication that they are better. And that our fairy tale is going to end well. Mine didn't end well. And I was the only person that did not see that up front. All of my friends said "RUN!" And, now I wish I had.

I hope the best for you. Be careful.

[Pretty Woman]

You already sound like you are going back.

Not judging you. All I'm going to say is read the stories here. Mine came back very lucid, agreeing to go to therapy.

You know how we ended? She told me the therapist told her we were not healthy for each other and we should break up. That very night she spent at my replacements house.

They are very manipulative and good at making you believe things are different. Tread lightly, Friend.

[Hlinthewiking]

   Pretty Woman

You're right... .I'm so scared... .

She replied me after and he had a pretty long talk, she seems so self aware, I couldn't believe what she was saying, it was like she was taking the words out of my mouth, the problems I had with her, I'll quote her

"I was so scared, afraid of getting hurt, loosing you or you deceiving me... .hiding me things. I was very nosy? (she made a type and I didn't get it) and in the last moments it was ever more increasing, because the relationship was bad. Now I know you tried, I see that now.

I tried to support myself in you, as if my happiness or well being depended on you and if you didn't do what I wanted or what I had in mind I wouldn't tell you what you should have done or I would close myself up and shut down... .For this dependence I wouldn't tolerate anything,  even if you took long to reply my messages, as if I depended on that to be well and only that mattered. But it's not like that, we need to have someone who adds up on us, that overflows us and that doesn't limit us."

I'm at awe, she never displayed this level of self awareness before it actually looks like she is taking responsibility of things. At the same time though, I still see her trying to manipulate me, she lied to me again. She changed her status to "Oh $h%&" today and I saw it when we began talking and I felt as it was like she was getting over me and when I said happy birthday she started to miss me again, she had a quote status before "A mind that is stretched by a new experience can never go back to its old dimensions", when I asked about her new status, she gave me a bs excuse that anyone would see it was a lie, I told her she didn't need to lie and told her the impression I had gotten, that maybe I was hurting her by talking to her, she kept on with the initial lie, so I didn't bother. Second lie was that I saw her on Tinder a few weeks back and I had a breakdown, I didn't know what to do and I didn't like or dislike her, I left it on for a while until I figured out what to do, when I came back she was gone, I also went thru all the girls within a 20mile radius for days and never found her again, so I knew she had disliked me, which was of course ok and what I should have done too since we broke up. When I told her this today, about Tinder, she denied finding me there and that she had used it to search me up and talk to me, as in a provocation or to talk to me, if she wanted to talk to me she has my contact on all social media as well as my home and cellphone, so again, absurd, she never tried to reach me, I confronted her again, being nice, told her there was no reason to lie, that it was ok and that I knew she had disliked me, she kept on the initial lie and wouldn't change it. When we are talking she also sent me a picture of us where she was almost completely nude, that was so mean, I wanted to go to her place at that instant, I said eff so many times when I saw that, I think we are close to the point of no return, I don't think I can't not go back now. Another thing I noticed when we were talking is that she mentioned I would let her get hungry, I immediately corrected her and said "let's get healthy here, I think you meant, you would get hungry". She also mentioned that she acted like a child before.

Pros: She sees her problems, is willing to work on them, seems so self aware and controlled.

Cons: She's lying and trying to manipulate me (so far the reasons are not evil, she wants to deny bad things that happened and wants me back, but if she does it for other things... .)

I think I should make a post on the conflicting board... .Darn it, what have I done... .There will be harsh repercussions on my family if we go back together too, they all hate her, they will think I'm pathetic for going back, I didn't want it to weigh down on my decision, but unfortunately I can't deny that will be a problem and if they decide to bother it may trigger my exBPDgf.

Please, any suggestions? I got even more scared after reading up on your experiences. We did break up in the past too though and it was different when we came back, I'm really changed and I told her, I'm starting to love myself and not letting some things be done to me, but I know how quickly things can change, specially when they get a hold on you.

My plan was to continue talking to her, convince her to get treatment, tell her my boundaries to start a new relationship, see if she was still willing before seeing her, I told her I wouldn't accept that she had sex with me again and disappeared, so we should talk it out before seeing each other.

[Rayban]

 C<|||Actions speak louder then words especially when involved with someone with BPD. Looks to me that she senses you're right for the picking.  Telling her you've changed and want to do things different THIS TIME. That's bargaining.  Trying to convince yourself that the relationship wasn't that bad and You have to tweet some things to be worthy of her.

Let's face it dude she's already lying to your face. What kind of trust could you build when she's already demolished the foundation. 

Help her seek treatment if you wish.  See if she really is serious about changing.  Otherwise her words don't mean anything and are at the very least manipulative.  Sorry if my words seem harsh.  It just bugs me because I've lived through her throwing blatant lies to my face and when proven wrong she said she was going to get help. Never happened. 

[rfriesen]

Hlin, you will make your own decisions and no one here is in any position to judge you. And no one's future is set in stone, so it's impossible to say for sure how things will play out if you go back with your ex.

I think what you're hearing from a lot of people is that your thought process sounds familiar, as do your ex's words and actions. So all we can do is share our experiences as one more set of information for you to have if you find yourself trying to make sense of things as you move forward

I'm being a little bit more protective of myself though and trying to be less naive. She already attempted to convince me she didn't get involved romantically with a guy that I'm sure she did, not really my business, we weren't together even though it hurt me, so I didn't argue.

... .I'm also a lot healthier mentally then I was when I was with her, I wouldn't feel so bad about myself for the things she did if I was like this, the question is, would I remain this healthy minded back in the relationship with her? If she's the same, I would lean towards no, sleep deprivation alone and mental fatigue would crack me.

I highlight the words above because they remind me of how I came to accept behaviour from my ex that I never thought I would accept in a relationship. The yelling, the jealousy, the way she would go through my pockets and phone and accuse me of hiding things. And her flirting and sexual innuendo with other guys that eventually did make me leave. When I look back on it now, I somehow came to accept a lot of childish, hurtful behaviour, because I became more tolerant of it, decided I could deal with it because in other ways we hit it off so well.

Reading your latest posts, I think your Viking handle is appropriate, because it sounds like you're preparing for an epic battle!  You're worried about whether you might crack, you're gauging how much pain you'll be able to withstand, you're psyching yourself up to hang in there ... .it does sound exciting, and we know that it can be thrilling! But it also kind of sounds like war. Keep in mind that it's worth always coming back to the question of what you want out of the relationship. What is it that you hope for from her? Is she really showing you that she's capable of it and willing to put some effort in for you? Does some part of you actually want the drama and battle you seem to be gearing up for?

These aren't questions you need to answer with absolute certainty, or all at once. But good to keep in mind, and come back to every now and then. And remember that if you're learning not to "feel so bad about" yourself for the things she does, that isn't necessarily a positive. That can also mean that the relationship is wearing down your self-esteem and self-respect to a point where you're willing to accept behaviour that would normally be unacceptable to you.

Basic takeaway: remember to take care of yourself too!

[Hlinthewiking]

  Rayban

It's the second post from you that scares me. Don't get me wrong, I'm not criticizing you, I just really hope you are wrong, because despite all those things, I do not believe most BPD are evil, they are not like ASPD or NPD, although there can be comorbidity.

I don't think last time wasn't that bad, it was awful, it almost killed me, the things I could tweak to help are not the primary issues, I just like to see a larger picture and I see parts that I could have done better, but I know wasn't my fault or determining factors. The reason I said I changed was for her sake, specially since I won't be taking blame for her stunts anymore and if she starts abusing me I won't get on my knees and try to help her like I did, I will likely walk away and wait for her to get stable again, that's what I meant.

You're right about the lies, I think I should confront her again about it in a more direct approach, stating that trust is a determining factor in a relationship and that telling me the truth will not make me leave her, but lying to me will.

There are meds that can help her and I believe sustaining boundaries from the get go may allow her to adjust to a more stable pattern.

Thanks for the support  

Reading your latest posts, I think your Viking handle is appropriate, because it sounds like you're preparing for an epic battle!  You're worried about whether you might crack, you're gauging how much pain you'll be able to withstand, you're psyching yourself up to hang in there ... .it does sound exciting, and we know that it can be thrilling! But it also kind of sounds like war.

You couldn't be more right, in fact I took a more direct approach in this. I'M at war and I needed to be strong, I changed my physical appearance as well, I did a long hair undercut and let my beard grow, I look almost exactly like Josh Mario John. It started last year, I always liked norse mythology and I was feeling weak, so I put on this viking mask to help me get thru life currently. I'm basically fighting for my life, emotional health, financial stability, friendships and family relationships, if I'm to fight for something, I think I can't have better motivation then this. My exBPDgf has hurt me physically and emotionally, has threatened my life, has threatened to lie to the police and get me arrested, she got me down as far as that I couldn't do errands, work or hardly leave the house, that means I can't get paid, my family sees all that and hates her, they can't understand why I insist on her. If I didn't need to fight for my life I would have been here as "Bert" from Mary Poppins and not the male version of the viking goddess of consolation.

Thank you for your contribution   rfriesen your reply really helped  

The sad thing is that I'm researching so much and I got into some psychology classes, I'm obsessing so much on this that I'm getting to know a lot of how her traumas may have occurred and what were the problems she had in her childhood that hindered her personality development, I just might not want to accept that knowing what the problem is may not give me the actual power to change it ;\

[insideoutside]

Thanks guys, really. Had a rough night, dreamed about her, we didn't speak after yesterday noon, I sent her a message just now, probably a mistake, I just though since we broke NC yesterday and I really wanted to talk to her, it would be better to do it now then a week from now.

I miss her so much, this is so lame, I really don't know what to do. If I decide to go back I would try to convince her to do therapy though, I think she could go for it, since I'm already going it wouldn't look like I was telling her "you're the problem, go fix it".

My friend was doing therapy extensively so he said and although he had a great awareness of his illness he still discarded me 10 days after accepting a message from me and giving me his new number whilst initiating most of the contact.  So just be careful.  I wish I hadn't bothered reaching out as his last discard hurt like hell.

[C.Stein]

I'm so scared

Read the above over and over again.  Is this the emotion that anyone should be feeling with the idea of getting into a relationship with another person?

I just might not want to accept that knowing what the problem is may not give me the actual power to change it

My friend, you cannot change anything with her and you will never have that power.  I also thought the same thing when I gained some knowledge of the disorder (three epic threads dealing with it here).  I asked myself if I would have done things differently perhaps it would have been "better", and maybe in some ways it might have been.  That said, no matter how much knowledge I have, no matter how much I might adjust my behavior, she will still be the same person.  There will never be anything I can do to change her and there is nothing you can do to change your ex.  I fear for you because I see you thinking in the same way I was, holding out hope for something that is an illusion.

My ex, who is a saint in comparison to what you have told us about yours, also had moments of self-awareness and expressed a strong desire to change ... .to not be "that person" (her words).  I choose to believe and trust in her ... .and continue to do so in spite of her actions/words/behavior that showed she wasn't changing or had learned anything from her past mistakes.  She simply is unable to look beyond her emotions, to see the consequences of her actions and words until it is too late.  Even then it usually took me pointing it out to her before she "saw" it.  I hung onto hope for so long, excused her hurtful behavior telling myself she just needed to stabilize her life and she would be OK.  Well she wasn't OK even after her life somewhat stabilized and she will never be OK without some significant and sustained effort to address her issues.  Once you can step outside the FOG, take the rose-tinted glasses off, and see the behavior for what it is you will realize there is nothing you can ever do that will make it better.  This is her battle to fight and win, not yours. 

[Rayban]

Hlint,

I'm not here to scare you. I've been there thinking I was prepared this time around to make a relationship with an untreated BPD work. The result was me feeling 10 times worse for even trying . Only now I'm understanding that it was crazy getting back with someone who lied, cheated, crushed my self esteem. I was manipulared and in the fog.  My family and friends tried to make me understand but I wouldn't listen.

I hope I'm wrong and you could make this work.  I just hope you realize that the odds are stacked against you. Bpd is a spectrum disorder and I don't think they are ASPD and evil.  That doesn't mean they can't cause a world of damage.  This is a person who deprived you of sleep isolated you from your friends read up on BPD manipulation tactics to control you. The choice is obviously yours just do be careful.

[Pretty Woman]

I think this post struck home for a lot of us because we've been in your shoes and none of us want to see you endure what we did. 

I had that same gut instinct you did, I was scared and did not trust her... .and she convinced me things would be better and I was her soulmate. Four days after she coldly discarded me she told me (and this was our final conversation) this woman was the most amazing person she has ever met, so deep and smart and she was madly in love.

Talk about a major insult to me. And gut punch.

As one of our ambassadors mentioned on here, we aren't here to judge and every situation is different. I know for myself I had to get burned enough to stop dipping my hand in the flame. Trust me, even after all that it was hard not reaching out to her but at this point I know all she would do is hurt me and I'm done being hurt.

We are here for you whatever you decide. Please know none of us are against you, just concerned because you resemble aspects in ourselves. 

[Hlinthewiking]

I think we are going to see each other tomorrow, I'm terrified. I told her we would talk tomorrow and see what happens, but I wouldn't schedule it today.

A thought I wanted to share was that lately most memories I had with her brought me fear and panic, like it was a prison, I don't know why. Maybe because I missed me, but it's so weird that I remember it this way, we had great moments and I love her so much.

I think I'm making a mistake, I got the night to think it over, but I feel like a different person, this may not be a bad experience in the long run, though I may regress in my progress at first, I'll try to keep my mind healthy. ":)" day might be tomorrow, time to go to school son, war is near, I'm ready, I think.

[once removed]

Hlinthewiking,

why not post on the Improving board, and learn the skills and tools to give this the shot you want to give it?

[Hlinthewiking]

I was posting on the deciding or conflicted, you think I should post on the improving? I thought I should go there only when we established we were back, I'm not even 100% sure we are seeing each other tomorrow. I think I'm getting cold feet, I feel like I was starting to feel happy alone. I don't think I miss our old relationship anymore, If we are getting back, I would need something new, I'm not willing to give up my life anymore.

[rfriesen]

I'm not willing to give up my life anymore.

This is an important realisation. What exactly does it mean to you? What things had you done before, or accepted having done, that felt like giving up your life. Are you able to focus more precisely on what it would mean to give up your life now, and where you would draw the line on unacceptable behaviour? What kinds of things do you consider unacceptable? I mean both things you can imagine her doing if you do meet her and re-engage, and things you can imagine yourself doing in a relationship with her?

Often we have only a vague and unpleasant sense of a relationship being unacceptable in some way. The clearer you're able to be with yourself about what is acceptable to you and what not, the better position you're in to know what you want to do now.

[Hlinthewiking]

I used to ignore my desires and focus just on her, I wouldn't be able to see my friends, I couldn't have any female friends, I couldn't go to the gym or errands some times, I couldn't eat at a restaurant alone, I couldn't go to a mall and simple walk and look at stores, I couldn't be without checking my phone every 2 minutes even during classes and work... .I guess I remember it being harder then I can imagine right now, now I consider unacceptable to start an argument for no reason at 1AM which extends until 4am when I need to wake up at 7am, that's the sort of thing I can't handle right now, but I remember that back then I wanted to do something about it but if I had put an end to it and ignored her, I would loose my sleep and feel terrible, so I had to endure it until she was exhausted and had to sleep herself. The thing that scares me the most was me pretending that everything was ok and simply always trying to get to a stable state with her, but then when she would finally be "ok" I would be acting fake and terrified of when she would snap again, then she would snap because I was acting different when she was fine, it was a complete and utter nightmare, like a Stephen King novel.

I have a weird feeling atm, I feel defeated, embarrassed, like I could have gotten something better but instead I'm getting back to her, I don't want that imprisonment feeling. Before I really missed her and I'd have done anything to be with her, but now when I think of her, despite feeling lust and love, I feel in panic and I get a sensation of horror "I have to get out of here", it's so weird and contradictory, to want to be with someone and at the same time wanting to run away.

[once removed]

I was posting on the deciding or conflicted, you think I should post on the improving? I thought I should go there only when we established we were back, I'm not even 100% sure we are seeing each other tomorrow.

you certainly dont have to, and i understand things are very confusing right now. you might just start with the lessons on that board. they are great skills and tools for relationships of all kinds and i use them all the time. plus, it may better inform your decision and where you go from here.

[Zinnia21]

Hi Hlinthewiking, I really relate to your dilemma! I've been through a few recycles, more recent ones he was seeking help... .but still it fell apart. Anyway, he tore it all down again, and I was getting on with my life as best as I could, but after a while my resolve weakened and I lifted the phone block.

So, he reached out per chance, the day after I opened up the contact channels. He said "I haven't been quiet because I've moved on or am doing well. I went so badly after the breakup that I was even drinking at work. Thanks for all the support you gave me during the relationship. You were so dedicated and I didn't even realise. I've been to the psych and had huge realisations about my behaviour. Would like to see you some time to talk, Love always... "

I tried to say thanks for reaching out but let's leave it there for now (not see each other for the time being). Of course I want to see him, want to be with him, but I need to know he's more stable first.
He said ok, he'd wait till I felt I could see him at some point. He said he was broken and sorry for the hurt he'd caused. I got what I thought was kind closure or a chance to get back together if he was more stable down the track. We texted for 2 or 3 weeks back and forth and then... .it started. The downward spiral. He got jealous and said he was terrified I'd met a new guy ( I said I hadn't, but he couldn't get calm about it). He sounded out of balance and erratic, rather than the calm caring communications he'd been previously texting me. Like you, I felt this could become a recycle, and I wasn't sure of what to do. He was being so nice and then one day he sent this out of the blue... .
 "I can understand you can't meet me to give me closure. But I can see now we weren't meant to be anyway. I don't need this anymore and am moving on from this and from you. Guess I'll see you around. Good luck with everything."

Once again, the shock ran through me. He had coaxed me out of my strong hold to talk, only to throw me away again. I felt my blood run cold. It was like getting recycled through text, and we weren't even back together!

That being said, it was yet another layer of the situation that I went through because I chose to. There is no 'wrong' decision, when you're feeling your way through this crazy type of thing. It wasn't fun, but I gave him a chance to text and he couldn't even stay stable with me via messages.

Perhaps you could just message for a bit and see what happens. Hold off from meeting up till you've had some solid and stable communication... till you have clarity on why you want to meet up and how you could realistically tackle things.
If you feel you should meet her soon due to fear of her slipping away or that you'll miss a chance, that's never a great place to start. If she's really committed to changing, she will reason with you and you can both wait for a non panicked non rushed time to meet up, if that's still what you decide to do.

[Herodias]

To me this just tells you that if they don't contact you, you feel bad and if they do you feel bad! It doesn't matter what they say, because once trust is gone you can't feel the goodness you thought was there in the beginning... .try if you must, but recycling is never fun for long. As my ex said... .to much has happened.

[Keef]

Hey, Hlintthewiking: how have things been getting on since October? I am worried about you - the things you've described resonate with me very well. I was in a r/s for one year, and we recycled about four times 'til that bleak day 3 weeks ago, after a relatively stable month (when I say 'stable' I mean nothing near a 'normal' caring down-to-earth-r/s), when she more or less out of the blue said that "If you do not apologize in an adequate manner [NB: accused of doing something I never even had done] I never want to see you again." And that was it. Take my word, if you were scared back then you will not get rid of that feeling. Take this from someone who is still afraid even though she cut me out, my girl fantasized about burning down my flat - days after she'd abused me physically. Whatever she did to you was a violation of trust and boundaries. I don't know if you still are together, but that trust won't be easily if ever regained, just think of the hard work she will have to face in therapy and in everyday life. While you'll want things to work out you'll at the same time be the recipient of her fears, newly arisen existential questions, dealing with her projections etc.

Herodias, Zinnia21, once removed, and everyone else who's joined in on this thread; amazing words of advice and insight!  

Back to Hlint: Even though you may prefer Norse mythology I can't get the Greek myth of Pandora and the box out of my mind. Found this on G****e:

"She took the key, slid it into the lock and turned it. She took a deep breath, closed her eyes and slowly lifted the lid of the box. She opened her eyes and looked into the box, expecting to see fine silks, gowns or gold bracelets and necklaces or even piles of gold coins. But there was no gleam of gold or treasure. There were no shining bracelets and not one beautiful dress! The look of excitement on her face quickly turned to one of disappointment and then horror. For Zeus had packed the box full of all the terrible evils he could think of. Out of the box poured disease and poverty. Out came misery, out came death, out came sadness - all shaped like tiny buzzing moths."

Hlintthewiking, I have despite what I've been through been very close to breaking NC today. Reading these pages and thinking of poor Pandora made me change my mind.

I hope you are safe and in a stable place!

/Keef