Real Vs. Fake

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

Final conclusion based on the entirety of our relationship (uBPDstbxw) 4 years.

Real Vs. Fake

The Real

She thought I was funny.

She thought I was handsome.

She thought I was a good person.

The Fake

She loved me. No, she needed me. BPD love = need.

She faked her religious beliefs to appear similar as mine.

She wanted me to be the one that would give her children. No, most anyone would do in reality for that purpose. In a roundabout way I was later told this in a moment of clarity. I was also flat out told this comment during the late stages of our relationship 'Give me a baby and then go away, who cares!"  

She was happy. No, she was hiding her feelings.

She took her vows seriously. No, she and her family both believe a marriage is only for as long as "your feeling the good vibes". I unfortunately heard her family describe "marriage" this way after we were married and I then noticed this was apparently her belief also which was contrary to our wedding vows.  

She tried to work on the marriage. No, she only told people that. She didn't do ANYTHING but be there and not leave, that was until she ultimately left for good.

I invite others to share, if you would like to.

[AwakenedOne]

Final conclusion based on the entirety of our relationship (uBPDstbxw) 4 years.

Real Vs. Fake

The Real

She thought I was funny.

She thought I was handsome.

She thought I was a good person.

The Fake

She loved me. No, she needed me. BPD love = need.

She faked her religious beliefs to appear similar as mine.

She wanted me to be the one that would give her children. No, most anyone would do in reality for that purpose. In a roundabout way I was later told this in a moment of clarity. I was also flat out told this comment during the late stages of our relationship 'Give me a baby and then go away, who cares!"  

She was happy. No, she was hiding her feelings.

She took her vows seriously. No, she and her family both believe a marriage is only for as long as "your feeling the good vibes". I unfortunately heard her family describe "marriage" this way after we were married and I then noticed this was apparently her belief also which was contrary to our wedding vows.  

She tried to work on the marriage. No, she only told people that. She didn't do ANYTHING but be there and not leave, that was until she ultimately left for good.

I invite others to share, if you would like to.

[Blimblam]

The truth is you were looking for the same thing she is self love from the source energy.  It's in the place the borderline would never look that's why they projected it into us. They gave us access to this place in ourself but we have to embrace the nightmare and find comfort in it to find the truth

The truth is probably what you don't want to accept.

[Blimblam]

What you were stuck in before you ever met her that you thought was real is fake. In this pain is the opportunity to wake up from the "false self", samsara, the matrix.

The reality my seem bleak and it will hurt like hell. But really you are just reclaiming the Vesell that contains you. You are not your thought or your emotions.  

[AwakenedOne]

What you were stuck in before you ever met her that you thought was real is fake. In this pain is the opportunity to wake up from the "false self", samsara, the matrix.

The reality my seem bleak and it will hurt like hell. But really you are just reclaiming the Vesell that contains you. You are not your thought or your emotions.  

What your really saying is that the realness of the reality was really fake and for the most part a lie that was once true because the false self which is a lie or also known as the fake self holds the trueness of what is real and in that reality there is hidden the true answer to awaken from the falseness of a non true answer to a real question that is often faked by lies that seem real in a fake yet realistic reality?

[hergestridge]

I invite others to share, if you would like to.

No need to, it would *exactly* the same list! What the heck? 

I would like to add to the need vs love thing that when she found out that I loved her but that I did not need her, she was furious. "You would be happy without me!", that was the worst betrayal ever to her.

[Blimblam]

What you were stuck in before you ever met her that you thought was real is fake. In this pain is the opportunity to wake up from the "false self", samsara, the matrix.

The reality my seem bleak and it will hurt like hell. But really you are just reclaiming the Vesell that contains you. You are not your thought or your emotions.  

What your really saying is that the realness of the reality was really fake and for the most part a lie that was once true because the false self which is a lie or also known as the fake self holds the trueness of what is real and in that reality there is hidden the true answer to awaken from the falseness of a non true answer to a real question that is often faked by lies that seem real in a fake yet realistic reality?

Your entire experience of the world right down to your own emotions is not who you are most of your thoughts are not your own but are beliefs imprinted into your memory that cause patterns in your life.  

The answer is in the painfull body sensations. When they are triggers they are making you aware of inner trauma that needs to be processed. 

Stay with the uncomfortable feeling don't force it to do anything. Feel it and allow the body to release the tension.

[mywifecrazy]

She faked her religious beliefs to appear similar as mine.

I was also flat out told this comment during the late stages of our relationship 'Give me a baby and then go away, who cares!"  

My experience exactly on faking being a Christian. I even asked her after the Divorce why she doesn't go to church any more. She told me "Oh I just did that because I knew it was important to you" ... .REALLY? For 20 years? What I didn't realize until now was that she was explaining how she MIRRORED me!

Wanting a baby then telling you to go is the ultimate SELFISH act of a pwBPD. To hell with the kid having a Father as long as I can have a baby. like is a Barbie Doll or something! You see this all the time now in society, especially in Hollywood... .Makes me Sick!

MWC

[Blimblam]

They can't really understand the main concepts in religion because they are detached from their source energy. Also, and I'm sorry if I offend you but they live in the same realm as the sociopath expect they feel all their emotions overlaying that reality. Sociopaths are detached from emotions and from the source energy.  So the world they experience is very objective and they nottice how we are stuck in patterns and social structures.  They see we are stuck in this fake thing that blinds us and it allows them to manipulate us.  They are the creators of many of those social structures and institutions that exist to occupy our minds and keep us asleep and easy to be manipulated and funnel our energy into perpetuating beliefs that keep us stuck in "it".

We are blind to something they can see and we are feeding them in our blindness and naïveté. We are living in their world which is hell. But we were already in hell that's why they were able to manipulate us so easily.

This physical plane of existance, time , and who you think you are is an illusion.  Sociopaths are only aware of this plain of existance and are the apex predetor in it. This is their world.  This is hell.  Borderlines are aware of this hell but they can experience all the emotions and it is overwhelming so they hide from dealing with them they are jealous of our blindness. We with our ability to feel emotions be connected to the source energy and have a barier that we can very effectively repress emotions under are blind to the fact society is a construct designed to keep us blind so the system and those at the top of it's pyramid can feed of our energy. We are blind to this dark aspect of our existance borderlines and sociopaths are very aware of. We have this part of us and it is in our subconscious.

[free-n-clear]

What you're really saying is that the realness of the reality was really fake and for the most part a lie that was once true because the false self which is a lie or also known as the fake self holds the trueness of what is real and in that reality there is hidden the true answer to awaken from the falseness of a non-true answer to a real question that is often faked by lies that seem real in a fake yet realistic reality?

 

[fromheeltoheal]

My head hurts.

I created a version of the relationship in my head that I wanted it to be, a fantasy, and forged ahead denying that what the relationship really was wasn't even close to that.  When I chose to let go of the fantasy and see the reality for what it was, I left her, since the reality was a nightmare.  No more complicated than that.  And then the real work began: why did I run with my fantasy and ignore reality?  Why was I voluntarily so blind?  Why did I put up with so much crap that now seems completely unacceptable?  The fact I felt so foolish when the fog cleared was useful in digging deep.  Yes, we unknowingly came under the spell of a mental illness, granted, but why were we susceptible to it to begin with, when there were plenty of signs early?  Oh what a wonderful opportunity to dig deep, fueled by pain, so the growth is real and it sticks; it's a brand new world.

[Blimblam]

Awakened what are you seeking?

[KeepOnGoing]

My head hurts.

I created a version of the relationship in my head that I wanted it to be, a fantasy, and forged ahead denying that what the relationship really was wasn't even close to that.  When I chose to let go of the fantasy and see the reality for what it was, I left her, since the reality was a nightmare.  No more complicated than that.  And then the real work began: why did I run with my fantasy and ignore reality?  Why was I voluntarily so blind?  Why did I put up with so much crap that now seems completely unacceptable?  The fact I felt so foolish when the fog cleared was useful in digging deep.  Yes, we unknowingly came under the spell of a mental illness, granted, but why were we susceptible to it to begin with, when there were plenty of signs early?  Oh what a wonderful opportunity to dig deep, fueled by pain, so the growth is real and it sticks; it's a brand new world.

Exactly. I'm right there with you. I did the exact same thing. I had the fantasy of this being a really deep relationship when really all the signs were there, and she even told me that she didn't get close to people. The confusing part was that she kept saying I was her best friend,  and that she loved me, but the truth is she's incapable of going that deep. So the question becomes exactly what you said: Why did I get sucked in? What is it about me that wants to check out from reality and go to fantasy over and over again? Thank you for this.

[corraline]

I chose to stay in fantasy because the reality was too painful. I believe my fantasy of the relationship was a coping mechanism to avoid or soothe the pain.

[Blimblam]

My head hurts.

I created a version of the relationship in my head that I wanted it to be, a fantasy, and forged ahead denying that what the relationship really was wasn't even close to that.  When I chose to let go of the fantasy and see the reality for what it was, I left her, since the reality was a nightmare.  No more complicated than that.  And then the real work began: why did I run with my fantasy and ignore reality?  Why was I voluntarily so blind?  Why did I put up with so much crap that now seems completely unacceptable?  The fact I felt so foolish when the fog cleared was useful in digging deep.  Yes, we unknowingly came under the spell of a mental illness, granted, but why were we susceptible to it to begin with, when there were plenty of signs early?  Oh what a wonderful opportunity to dig deep, fueled by pain, so the growth is real and it sticks; it's a brand new world.

Exactly. I'm right there with you. I did the exact same thing. I had the fantasy of this being a really deep relationship when really all the signs were there, and she even told me that she didn't get close to people. The confusing part was that she kept saying I was her best friend,  and that she loved me, but the truth is she's incapable of going that deep. So the question becomes exactly what you said: Why did I get sucked in? What is it about me that wants to check out from reality and go to fantasy over and over again? Thank you for this.

A sociopath can tell you why.  I talked to a sociopath yesterday and gave me deep insights to their world.  He told me how and why they can manipulate is so easily. Is that we are blinded by something they are extra aware of.  They change masks to interact with us. They don't trust people's words because they are liars.  They very closely watch and observe body language.  We dissacosiate when we observe things that don't fit in with the way we see reality and they just exploit this. They are always in that reality and think we are foolish not to be. The borderline has emotions and feels terrible because they see this aspect of reality that sociopaths do and feels terrible about it. If you ever nottice they all seem to like art with dark bloody disfigured bodies.

By digging within our unconscious and experiencing our fears and not hiding from them we can begin to reclaim our body from the bondage it is in and reclaim our mind.

We were stuck in this fantasy before the borderline came along.

[fromheeltoheal]

I chose to stay in fantasy because the reality was too painful. I believe my fantasy of the relationship was a coping mechanism to avoid or soothe the pain.

Good call corraline, me too, along with a stubbornness to not let go of the fantasy, and even influence her with it.  My 'fantasy', as I call it, was just a healthy relationship where both people care about, trust and respect each other.  That never would have been possible in the actual relationship I was in, but yet I stayed, and yes, the fantasy did become a coping mechanism in the face of reality.  Also, the big one, was the whole ordeal unearthed something I didn't know about myself: that I confuse the longing for love, the chase, with real love.  There's a buzz around that chase, like an addiction, a familiar feeling, and confusing that with love, a slow burn of contentment and fulfillment, has kept me in quite a few relationships that just weren't right, for whatever reason.  Priceless information that, thanks borderline.

[Tausk]

The fantasy aspect of my coping has been coming up a lot for me recently.   My childhood was traumatic.  There was nothing I could do to process the shame, pain, fear, and chaos.   I had no resources, no one to share with, and in the meantime, I had to take care of people at an age when I should have been riding my bike and playing little league.

So I used fantasy to survive.  In order to cope with the reality, I had to move into fantasy.  If I didn't, I literally would have gone insane.  

And so I did the same with my ex and the interaction.  It started as mirroring of the false self and fantasy.  As the interaction moved into a place where things were incomprehensible, I projected fantasy onto what we were.  When we were recycling, I was in fantasy when ever we were apart and assumed the fantasy was fulfilled when we got together.  And even when I know I'll never go back, the fantasy is a roadblock to letting go. 

So the fact is for me, nothing was real.  My ex and I were never on the same page in terms of feeling the same.  Yes, we had fun and excitement, but it was like trying to find adult love with a sexy traumatized three year old.  It was always a fantasy.  But the Fantasy has to be killed.

Nothing was real for me.  

[SeekerofTruth]

Why am I laughing spontaneously at some of this stuff?  Oh yeah, otherwise I'd be crying.  Never mind.

[LettingGo14]

There was a quote by Carl Sagan I remembered recently, "The universe seems neither benign nor hostile, merely indifferent."

Human beings on the other hand can certainly be benign or hostile.

The ship sinks, and we swim to shore.  We can sort through wreckage that washes to the beach.  We can stay and express our fury.   We can curse fate, chance, or the hand of the person who scuttled the ship.   We all have some challenge to face.  We all have some burden to carry.

I was a mess when I stumbled ashore.  :)azed and confused.  Restless and pissed.  Astonished by the pain.  Wanting to make it go away.  Wanting the world to be fixed.

The only reality that came to matter was my own.   My ex-girlfriend is a Rubik's Cube that I threw as far as I could back into the ocean.   I spent too much time thinking about her and how I could solve the puzzle.

The more I have accepted the fact that my relationship is over, the more I have come to believe that it's not what happens to us, it's how we relate to it.  The weight of my burden is directly commensurate to the value I assign it.

I know how much you are suffering, AO.  And I relate to it.  I would take that burden away from you if I could.  All I can offer is that the Rubik's Cube is best tossed into the ocean.  You survived the shipwreck, and we are making camp here for the time being.

Keep posting, brother.  The answer is within.

[SeekerofTruth]

I do relate.  I do identify... .   

My heart smiles in my recovery.

Today, some of my recovery entails recognition of the "circularity" in my dysfunctional relationship dance and my hedonistic relationship to it, as my head sought to eat and devour it's own tail.  Which parafrickindoxically means doing something I can not do by myself:  extricate myself from a toxic relationship.  I am helplessly addicted, helpless and powerless; then I am empowered, inspired, and wise; and somewhere along the lines of that spectrum... .is a gate; a portal; an opening and an opportunity towards growth and further development in beauty and grace amongst the backdrop of my pitiful sorrow.  Today it means breaking free from whatever is... .in the context of the following:

Break free from the circularity of one's own eventual mindfuc.  It is a trap threathening to siphon off my energy in an ever tighthening hole on a downward spiral into the abyss of destruction and debris aka "what my life has become".  Re-covery of my shipwrecked mind-body-soul whose S.O.S. felt unheeded... .is now in my hands, in my heart, in my mouth and on my tounge.  May I practice devoting 80-100% of my daily energy to cultivating a soft place to land in the rebirth of my inner child... .in my most nurturing, self-respectful, and wise internal spiritually lead and soulfully based reparentified voice so that I may master the miniaturisstic techniques of profound deep and loving self-care, for the benefit of myself and others.

To break free from the circularity of a downward spiral... .muster your cause, choice a direct line course of action, stick to it... .find your resolve, practice your devotion, experience victory.  Be grateful.  And remember, there will be times when you will need to practice forgiveness and forgiveness over and over again, and set clear boundaries respectful of others and protective of your very own safety.  Lifelesson #crazywomanriver

[AwakenedOne]

There was a quote by Carl Sagan I remembered recently, "The universe seems neither benign nor hostile, merely indifferent."

Human beings on the other hand can certainly be benign or hostile.

The ship sinks, and we swim to shore.  We can sort through wreckage that washes to the beach.  We can stay and express our fury.   We can curse fate, chance, or the hand of the person who scuttled the ship.   We all have some challenge to face.  We all have some burden to carry.

I was a mess when I stumbled ashore.  :)azed and confused.  Restless and pissed.  Astonished by the pain.  Wanting to make it go away.  Wanting the world to be fixed.

The only reality that came to matter was my own.   My ex-girlfriend is a Rubik's Cube that I threw as far as I could back into the ocean.   I spent too much time thinking about her and how I could solve the puzzle.

The more I have accepted the fact that my relationship is over, the more I have come to believe that it's not what happens to us, it's how we relate to it.  The weight of my burden is directly commensurate to the value I assign it.

I know how much you are suffering, AO.  And I relate to it.  I would take that burden away from you if I could.  All I can offer is that the Rubik's Cube is best tossed into the ocean.  You survived the shipwreck, and we are making camp here for the time being.

Keep posting, brother.  The answer is within.

LettingGo14 - I plan to toss the Rubik's Cube one day soon into the ocean. Thanks for your kind and helpful words.

[AwakenedOne]

Awakened what are you seeking?

I don't really know.

Maybe once I find it, I will understand then what "it" was that I was seeking.

[Dutched]

They can't really understand the main concepts in religion because they are detached from their source energy. Also, and I'm sorry if I offend you but they live in the same realm as the sociopath expect they feel all their emotions overlaying that reality. Sociopaths are detached from emotions and from the source energy.  So the world they experience is very objective and they nottice how we are stuck in patterns and social structures.  They see we are stuck in this fake thing that blinds us and it allows them to manipulate us.  They are the creators of many of those social structures and institutions that exist to occupy our minds and keep us asleep and easy to be manipulated and funnel our energy into perpetuating beliefs that keep us stuck in "it".

Although BPD is a spectrum disorder I really can’t agree with you.

From my very long experience the “concept of religion” was understood and practiced as “normal” people do, even at times deep philosophical in our conversations.

Isn’t it that the average “believer” (no offence!) doesn’t live up to that religion either? Why cheat, lye, etc., all against the 10 commandments.

Additional to compare BPD with a sociopath…? In general,  sociopath experience “shallow” emotions. As of that they feel a corrupted form of pleasure. No real joy, no real pain, they can’t find pleasure in the small things as we do, as what makes us happy.

Now a BPD.  Wasn’t it that a BPD feels the opposite? Intense emotions (I love you  - I hate you), intense (imagined) fear of abandonment, etc.?  But also, yes like that 4-6 yr old, intense feelings of happiness and joy as I experienced with my kids on that age?   

Wasn’t it Marsha Linehan who wrote:

” People with BPD are like people with third degree burns over 90 percent of their body. Lacking emotional skin, they feel agony at the slightest touch or movement”.

The seemingly similarity between the 2 is that both have a tendency to hover back. A BPD the one they long for, a sociopath to regain power (the power struggle with a BPD is out of fear for imagined abandonment)

Seemingly for both, others are “objects”, but as you study more, both from a totally different point of view.

BPD is an attachment disorder, we, the “objects” as dumped (abandonment… and when a DPB dumps an “object” it is to control their sanity, their core being) as facing the pain is too much to handle for a BPD, that would hit their core, they therefore can’t  (shame… guild…)

Sociopaths in general do not fear the pain when an “object”is dumped, because of their shallow emotions.

Sorry BB, I notice your are reading, researching and soul searching a lot, however, maybe because of your very fresh and earlier pain and lack of a T, it seems you try to adapt to much theoretical concepts at a time.

[Dutched]

Real of Fake… Hmm.  Besides the very good and true thoughts as expressed, it seems (in my opinion) we search for a justification, explanation.  Not judging! And surely not negative about it.

When I stick to the facts. I have had a R/S for a long time, kids, social active, etc. Fact.

Did I love, was that real? Yes I did, for me it was. Fact

Did exw loved me, hated me? Both. Fact

Was I happy and accepted my R/S?  yes I was most of the time happy, at least for a 25 yrs, accepted the high an low in the R/S, until the “dormant” period ended and real rages/outburst. Fact.

Did I feel lonely? Yes, lack of deep emotional support and No as we talked very, very much.

Did exw couldn’t express deep emotional feelings?  Yes, deflecting, avoidance, projection, changing subjects, etc.  Fact.

In retrospect, 3,5 yrs after. Part of me feels the waste of 30+yrs of my life, due to what happened, special when I look at the damage, emotionally to kids, me and financially.

Part of me feels very, very proud of not loosing my sanity, my self esteem during these years AND being a good father and family man / husband! No one takes that.

With all our soul searching and knowledge we know that the exBPD loved intensely and hated as intensely the one the exBPD felt attached to.

The exBPD craves for love to fill their deep longing for love, so a BPD do anything to ensure they get it. Once received a BPD lack the emotional strength to fight there fears of intimacy, inadequacy or abandonment, so pushing love away, thus not answering or giving love to their partner.

All of that causes the instability of the R/S, manipulation, outbursts, hurt, etc. in order for a BPD to “dance safely on that Borderline”.

Part of our part (?) in the R/S is that we were unaware, reacted therefore, seen from the BPD, wrong, which justifies the BPD to try to regain power of that love. Consequently the instability of our R/S is born.   

When I listen/read stories of other “normal” relationships (have a peek at forums a of woman’s magazines) , than I can sincerely question myself if I ever wanted to be in such one, as there are a lot unhappy people out there faking…  Yes, maybe not emotional that raining, in such a rollercoaster that stopped abruptly, causing that much damage.     

Well, questioning myself, will I be able to trust enough to give my hart again? I don’t know (not looking for another woman yet), that does all of it with me. 

[Blimblam]

Dutched what I guess I mean is "self love". But while a sociopath has plenty of self love. They are disconnected from a deep profound something we feel. And a borderline finds self love in other people. I think a lot of us "nons" were seeking self love in another also, false idols, and that's why we got so hurt. this "self love" I refer to is something different than what a sociopath experiences.  

The self love I'm talking about is what I would consider hearing the "message of god". That would deliver us from fear, experience true selfless compassion and empathy for others etc.

How could a borderline understand this? They hide from the very place they would have to look to find it and I think so do most of the rest of humanity.

[alvy singer]

Awakened one:

I'm going to offer an opinion/ experience that may not rub you, or some of the other responders so well, but it comes from an honest, truly good-hearted place, so give it a try:

I think people attach a whole lot of mumbo-jumbo to relationships, especially with BPDs. I'm just cutting to the chase with the verbiage... .could use a more polite term, but the gist is "It's a lot simpler than you/ they are making it out to be." Religious, spititual ideas, complex ideas of the subconscious/ unconscious, fate, Karma, God, gods, etc.

We find a person. We get attracted, we find love. We invest. We struggle to keep the love, and the person. It may have many forms, but it's important. It's real. We have real biological drives... .to reproduce (even if we actually don't desire children, our DNA probably wants us to). We have sexual desires, and desires to have and give love, affection, and to feel and be important to someone who is so important to us.

Theres NO need to build up or decorate such an important, complicated relationship beyond those obvious and common attributes.

And You have so wisely begun to divide the real from the fake, as you put them.

My take, my experience, or "advice," if you will is:

Borderlines are so very full of contradictions (the more high functioning and genuinely attractive, the greater the contradictions) that sorting REAL from FAKE becomes not only impossibly, but (AND THIS IS THE KEY) as you heal, and the scars return to healthy tissue, IRRELEVANT.

That's right, as you go through the revolutions of healing/hurting/healing/readjusting/backsliding, and TIME finally does it's work,

what your BPD ex felt, thought, did, did not do, was truthful about, or lied about, and even what they're doing now, or will ever do, becomes... .

IRRELEVANT.

Because you have, probably despite yourself, your imagination or your fears, just been on the tram of time, and you have moved on.

Life may never be the same (It's never the same, exactly... .it moves on, then it ends).

You may always return from time to time to wonder, get angry, wonder where she's at, if she thinks of you, if she... .(insert anything you want here, they're ALL interchangeable). And that's all  OK.

Point is, you will heal.

Look, at nearly three years out, and with a significant relationship inbetween the BPD end and now, I still go through thoughts, musings, etc. But I don't love her. I'm not really angry, because I just can't possibly value the real person that was so disordered as to abuse me in that way, then take up with someone else while she was still breaking up with me, and deny me any proper closure, and write me out of her life (despite her wonderful words). Her actions simply defy her words so completely, and we all know in our heart and mind, that talk is so cheap. Only actions count in the end.

Yet I still wonder... .will she ever actually get married after this apparently 18 month engagement? I essentially get BORED, and I want to know. Yeah, really, I mean that. She was the most important person or thing I ever had in my life, the most dear, and I was so shattered to lose her that way. Yet now, the main reason I muse, wonder, want any answers is ... .I'm bored.

This is great news. It means, outside the almost random thoughts the human brain recycles, I don't care. My feelings are in line with REALITY, because I wouldn't be with her under ANY circumstances... .oh no, not for a moment. There are literally no words, no actions, no seemingly miraculous, hitherto unwittnessed changes in a BPD, that would make me even begin to be with her. And I KNOW she'll never, ever approach me again. She probably never really thinks of me except randomly, and doesn't care about me in any significant way, if she cares at all... .despite 5.5 years of on/ off expressions of the deepest love and passion. I get it, that all that is meaningless.

What matters, is the actions... .the SUM OF ALL HER ACTIONS, and that she abandoned me & wrote me out, and took up with someone else as she still was in some way with me.

You can get there, too... .so that you can accept any possibility about your past, her, etc., and NOT CARE. Because all that is past. All that is as it seems... .the love was the love (if a BPD really does love like a non-BPD can). The passion was the passion. The BPD behaviors, the emotions, the terrible things- ALL OF THEM were real, too.

And it's ALL DONE.

And you get to that point, and you say "It doesn't really matter now." And you've healed, enough. Then you have to look with a keen eye into what trouble you might get into or avoid with your next true love, if you find one! IN other words, you look FORWARD, instead of backward, and you had better, because that's where your life, the only life there is, exists.

You'll do fine.

I wouldn't say it unless I gradually realized I'm fine, too. And I'm hardly what most people would call a sunny optimist. seriously, you'll make it. You'l find YOUR way to get there. Survival is one hell of a strong instinct, even if we keep pushing it away. It has it's way of climbing onto our back and regaining control of us. It's not mystical. It's what every living creature in the history of life has had to possess, and you're full of it.

You can take that to the bank.

[SeekerofTruth]

A.S. - awesomely thought thru post.  I see you have been thru the BPD grinder, now post 3 years and offer us a perspective on recovery.

But first, man do you know your BPD mate and yourself inside of that historic relationship.  The degree of your insight into the qualitative manners of toxicity occurring inside a BPD relationship and it's impact upon the other IS SO VERY MUCH SPOT ON FOR ME.  It's a richoset shot off the wall and smack dab in the middle of my forehead.

My ears are up!  

I did have an empowered awareness yesterday.  Dang I should have wrote it down in a recovery notebook. uggg... .such painfully dreadfully slow drudging and coming up with a """"""gem"''"""

Went something like this:

I no longer need nor choose to spend so much time thinking about her, me, and us and experience further psychic emotional bondage as a result.  This psychic bondage keeps me tied to the past, not fully present in the moment, and distracted from my future... .out of step, out of balance, away from putting one foot in front of the other in choosing a (lifestyle) direction with a trajectory aiming for a straight line right out of hellishness, sufferrage, anxious, lost time, misdirected misapplied wasted energy that became identified as my (muthfucin subconscious outside of my awareness or floating in the invisible ethers) self-defeating self-destructive Maladaptive Coping Response-Reaction Pattern I got to reenact or had to or perhaps ineveitably had to.

If I can clean it up, muster my resolve, and get my daily am meditation underway... .the follow thought process SELF-TALK is key for me:

I do not need to any further spend time thinking about what she said... .

Nor, do I need to spend so much time thinking about what she said... .

I would be wasting my time.  I am breaking free and liberating myself from my obsessive-compulsive addictive trauma bond to this person with home I had a deeply profound soulful connection to which wound up being chaotic, destructive, and toxic but helped me to expose my deepest vulnerabilities and greastest weaknesses in being forced to face reality (as someone said elsewhere on these boards).  Be gentle with myself.

I can choose to redirect the content and nature of thinking processes which constitute a significant amount of my energetic supply of psychological capital".  I can think about anything else!

If I am thinking about my recovery behaviors enough to diligently apply them, my diet/nutrition/exercise/spiritualreadings/sleep-wake cycle/lifeorganization can all stand a little improvement along the way... .I can smile, I'm alive, I think I can get out more often, socialize with more emotionally safe, spiritually or ethically guided, fun, smart, good people!  I can do this... .I deserve it.  everyday in everyway... .always all ways self-care.  It begins when I wake up and get out of bed... .

[Xstaticaddict]

The ship sinks, and we swim to shore.  We can sort through wreckage that washes to the beach.  We can stay and express our fury.   We can curse fate, chance, or the hand of the person who scuttled the ship.   We all have some challenge to face.  We all have some burden to carry.

You survived the shipwreck, and we are making camp here for the time being.

Incredibly helpful analogy for me to read right now. Thank you. My camp is lonely and my fire is small and sucky right now, but seeing all your little campfires starting on distant islands helps me know that there are other survivors. Looking forward to the sunrise though and exploring the island. F the ship, it's gone forever, made me seasick anyway.

I've had to come to terms with the real vs fake as I make my way through the book The Emotionally Abusive Relationship by Beverly Engel. As i read all the amazing ways i could have opened up and connected to overcome what was going on to make our coupling such a high conflict one, there's no escaping the reality that neither of us was in any way connected to each other's true selves, but rather hanging on to the fantasy of what we needed the other to be in the face of undeniable evidence that neither of us would ever be that. Great book, but super frustrating with no one to do the healing exercises with.

Fact is, to continue the ship analogy, we both had a hand on the wheel and were steering in different directions, while having no idea how to steer a ship in the first place, so while we argued about who could steer the ship better and where we were going and why the other person wasn't doing something nice for the other, we crashed into something and sank. Now we're on different islands with different survival skills, but somehow i ended up with the books on how to steer the ship and now in my isolation i'm reading the damn thing cover to cover so next time i know what i'm doing.

A.S. great post. I wish i had your level of disconnect about my ex, and i believe you when you say it will happen. I definitely have the Never Again Under Any Circumstances Will I Ever Be With Her Again, part down. Actions definitely speak louder than the words and promises of a childlike mind and as much as i'd like the opportunity to do things differently in the relationship, I'll get that chance in the next one.

[SeekerofTruth]

Borderlines are so very full of contradictions (the more high functioning and genuinely attractive, the greater the contradictions) that sorting REAL from FAKE becomes not only impossibly, but (AND THIS IS THE KEY) as you heal, and the scars return to healthy tissue, IRRELEVANT.

There are literally no words, no actions, no seemingly miraculous, hitherto unwittnessed changes in a BPD, that would make me even begin to be with her. And I KNOW she'll never, ever approach me again. She probably never really thinks of me except randomly, and doesn't care about me in any significant way, if she cares at all... .despite 5.5 years of on/ off expressions of the deepest love and passion. I get it, that all that is meaningless.

What matters, is the actions... .the SUM OF ALL HER ACTIONS, and that she abandoned me & wrote me out,

so that you can accept any possibility about your past, her, etc., and NOT CARE. Because all that is past. All that is as it seems... .the love was the love (if a BPD really does love like a non-BPD can). The passion was the passion. The BPD behaviors, the emotions, the terrible things- ALL OF THEM were real, too.

And it's ALL DONE.

You can take that to the bank.

I find the above so inspiring and liberating.  Thanks especially for your gem of insight that the more highly functional the BPD the greater the range in contradictions... .yup yup and sprinkled with subtlety, sophistication, and clever sassiness.

[alvy singer]

SeekerofTruth:

You wrote:

"I can choose to redirect the content and nature of thinking processes which constitute a significant amount of my energetic supply of psychological capital".  I can think about anything else!"

Your entire post rang true/ paralleled my seemingly snail's pace recovery from internally frantic, grief-stricken, torn-away, anxious, to almost blase'.

I highlight this passage of yours, because it was the essence of my recovery. My therapist tried to get this into my head (he having been there, too), but for me, it took eight months of frequent therapy, then quitting it, and a little more time... .four months, to realize I had it. And the idea was just like yours: It doesn't matter what I replace my obsessive thoughts about the relationship with. Literally, anything will do. It was simply redirecting my grief and or anxiety to ANYTHING, however mundane. I must have told myself a hundred times a day, maybe many more, to shift gears, or turn my attention to something else. I began to realize (for the first time in my life), on a hard won, truly experiential basis, what others always knew instinctively: IT IS PERFECTLY OK TO JUST THINK OF SOMETHING ELSE. THERE IS NO REWARD FOR OBSESSION, AND NO PENALTY WHATSOEVER FOR LEAVING IT ALONE. QUITE THEOPPOSITE, IN FACT.  When the process is repeated enough (as you may well feel already), it begins to divert your thought a fraction of a millisecond earlier, then earlier, and so on. It becomes unconscious, automatic... .you have changed your thought, you have formed a most powerful and adaptive habit. You have EARNED flexibility. You have earned your freedom from your own obsession, and begun to truly feel, see, and know it's just a process. It does not diminish what was good. It lets it rest. It does not erase the bad... .it lets it go. It lets it be. And then, to your surprise, bit by bit, it's not so bad, then as the days, weeks , months pass, you imagine you'll say "It doesn't hurt so much anymore," and you probably will, but the truly funny and I do mean this -joyously playful thing about it all, is you laugh. You say to yourself , maybe out loud:" Yeah, it doesn't hurt anymore to think this or that, it's just a thought, but I don't even care about the victory anymore!" and you have a good laugh and smile.

As I said, few outside my work have ever accused me of being a sunny type of guy. I put on a genuine professional face and concern for my clients in my business, and try my best always to help them (as they pay all my bills, and deserve my support), but in my personal life, people who know me speak of what a pain in the ass I am... .either with irritation or begrudging love or respect. So I'm no one to blow smoke.

I thought I might give up a thousand times, with this repetitious redirecting. I lapsed, I lapsed, I lapsed... .but then it started coming back more, quicker, the moments of relative peace got longer, and longer. Time, the great healer passed. Now, I say this both in lightness and in honesty... .I'm still growing and healing. Why shouldn't I, or you, or Awakened one, or XstaticAddict be, or any other of the posters I haven't yet read on this thread? It is a process, and you pointed out the intricate, just crazily labyrinthine passages we made with our BPD ex-lovers. The process was so arduous, so soul-stretching. The process of healing is in line with the difficulty and investment we put into the relationship.

But I can say again, my thoughts and musings, my questions these days are of little to no emotional significance. It is kind of funny. I just want to know what ever became-or will become of the engagement... .more seeking some closure, boredom, mundane curiosity. There are and will (for me) remain wounds, things that if I had the chance (and I won't!) to address with her, I would. But with each passing day, the cycles get weaker, the meaning less strong, and sometimes I can't even remember, emotionally, what it was really all so intense for. Imagine that! Liek I have to dredge up some meaning. Haha, I just drop it and get n with whatever I'm doing at that point. Basically, at some point, I mean to tell you it's almost ALL good news. And did I mention I'm a rather obsessive thinker?

This emotional trial... .let's cal it 6.5 years with a BPD and the acute aftermath-something I would NEVER have believed I'd sign up for-did so much to help me become significantly less obsessive. It is ... .the single most powerful spiritual/ personal catalyst I can think of. It's not the only one, but I feel very much more an individual now, very much closer to accepting myself, and life, the way it is, in any given moment. No surprise, i guess, that's what all strains and trials can do for us, that's what life responds to... .stress. I know you're well aware of all this already. YOUR process is your key, and it will work. You forged it, you hone it, you apply and apply, you'll own it. You're the master.

Oh, a few behavioral things I did when I was absolutely on fire with anxiety and loss... .I redoubled my exercise, focused on a good bed time (11PM for me), and got through about a six month period of super early awakening -2AM- and my sleep normalized. I made a real effort to have great sleep hygiene. It worked. So did the weights, the swimming. I felt like coming apart all the time for about ten months, but kept the motion going, and really made some great gains, which I now regard as golden and amazing. But at the time, I was so very lost, emotionally. That survival instinct took over, and the worst thing i suppose is, about two years are a serious blur. Really distorted time. But I doubt I'll ever have such a trauma again.  I doubt you posters will, either, because this one is a real trial by fire.

It's all going to be good. Whenever it stops being downright miserable, then gets livable, it just smoothes out. at YOUR pace. in YOUR way.

[alvy singer]

XtaticAddict:

Your thoughts deserve more time than I have at the moment... .I gotta' get to bed! But As surely as most BPD relationships share amazingly similar substance, despite the particular differences, It's gratifying to hear echoes, analogues of my thoughts in yours, yours in mine, ours in theirs... .That you said you definitely have the "... .never again under any circumstances... ." thing down is a sure sign of strength. Hehe, I entertained the opposite for about 6-7 months, until I realized it might kill me! I let go when I HAD to. Glad you let go of it, too. I hope to come back and read and think of your post(s) more. Again, in closing, these stories of recovering our previous life trajectories, or maybe just sane, rational normality in the aftermath of literally dealing with psychotic entanglements of the most intimate sort, it's great to see the commonality. Good job! Definitely, good work. It will pay off.

-cheers!