What do you think of this?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

This may go in another board, but I am wondering if this recent activity is due to BPD mom being served last week a motion to enter, motion to modify, and temp orders, and probably seeing her lawyer.  We have a hearing in less than two weeks.  Things are not looking good for her going in front of the judge when she hasn't followed anything he ordered, including signing the order in the first place.  It is not unusual for her to show the kids the court paperwork, and if she did this time, they would have read two affidavits explicitly outlining how she has managed to alter the kids' realities in the past year.  I think she would be dumb to show them that, but who knows.

Before today, DH had not seen DSS15 since early March (despite the fact he is supposed to be here 45% of the time), had not seen DSD19 since she graduated last summer (unless you count when she went to testify against him in November), and had not seen DSS18 in the past month (although he has been more open in coming in general).

Today was my DD18's graduation, and she asked for her step-siblings to come.  DSS18 came to graduation with DSS15, but DSS15 never said hi to anyone and ran to the car to avoid seeing anyone (including my DD18).  He has now tried to throw DH under the bus twice by giving his altered realities to CPS.

DSS18 and DSD19 came to the graduation party at our house.  I was SHOCKED to see DSD19 there.  It was awkward at first... .gave her space but nice.  The party lasted 6 hours, and both DH and I made separate small talk conversations with DSD19.  At the end, DH gave her a hug goodbye, and this time she actually hugged back and said she is hoping they can have a conversation, and of course DH agreed (with happy tears in eyes).  DSD19 has also asked to meet my DD18 for brunch tomorrow.

I did find out that DSD is going to live with a friend this summer, which I think is a good sign.

Of course we are guarded and wondering if BPD mom is putting the two kids up to suddenly being nice to us (but keeping DSS15 from seeing his dad still), but maybe they are starting to see things.  I would think her lawyer would advise her to have DSS15 come, too, but maybe he is so alienated she can't make him anymore.

I am hopeful that it is the kids waking up, but I am also worried it is her trying to use them as pawns before the hearing.

[sanemom]

This may go in another board, but I am wondering if this recent activity is due to BPD mom being served last week a motion to enter, motion to modify, and temp orders, and probably seeing her lawyer.  We have a hearing in less than two weeks.  Things are not looking good for her going in front of the judge when she hasn't followed anything he ordered, including signing the order in the first place.  It is not unusual for her to show the kids the court paperwork, and if she did this time, they would have read two affidavits explicitly outlining how she has managed to alter the kids' realities in the past year.  I think she would be dumb to show them that, but who knows.

Before today, DH had not seen DSS15 since early March (despite the fact he is supposed to be here 45% of the time), had not seen DSD19 since she graduated last summer (unless you count when she went to testify against him in November), and had not seen DSS18 in the past month (although he has been more open in coming in general).

Today was my DD18's graduation, and she asked for her step-siblings to come.  DSS18 came to graduation with DSS15, but DSS15 never said hi to anyone and ran to the car to avoid seeing anyone (including my DD18).  He has now tried to throw DH under the bus twice by giving his altered realities to CPS.

DSS18 and DSD19 came to the graduation party at our house.  I was SHOCKED to see DSD19 there.  It was awkward at first... .gave her space but nice.  The party lasted 6 hours, and both DH and I made separate small talk conversations with DSD19.  At the end, DH gave her a hug goodbye, and this time she actually hugged back and said she is hoping they can have a conversation, and of course DH agreed (with happy tears in eyes).  DSD19 has also asked to meet my DD18 for brunch tomorrow.

I did find out that DSD is going to live with a friend this summer, which I think is a good sign.

Of course we are guarded and wondering if BPD mom is putting the two kids up to suddenly being nice to us (but keeping DSS15 from seeing his dad still), but maybe they are starting to see things.  I would think her lawyer would advise her to have DSS15 come, too, but maybe he is so alienated she can't make him anymore.

I am hopeful that it is the kids waking up, but I am also worried it is her trying to use them as pawns before the hearing.

[ForeverDad]

"Hope springs eternal" and "hope for the best, prepare for the worst"

Time will tell but proceed cautiously right now with a court case pending, especially when sharing information.  One factor in DH's favor is that now that they're adults their BioM can't as easily manipulate them into feeling guilted that court and DH are gaining up on her control.  As I recall, most states let kids age out of the system once they're 18 or up to an extra year if not yet graduated from high school.

[sanemom]

My daughter had a good time with her stepsiblings.  I didn't ask her much, but she did offer that they mostly kept the conversation light, said nothing about the upcoming hearing (although I am sure they knew), and that DSD19 said it was weird not to have contact with her siblings this past year and how she wants to repair things with her dad (of course, she said that last year and disappeared).  Also, DSD19 is living half time with her friend and half time with mom. 

Court is next week, and it is hard to wonder what BPD mom and her attorney have up their sleeves--she certainly doesn't seem too worried so that makes me more nervous.

[Thunderstruck]

I wouldn't be surprised if BPDmom put them up to it. ":)o you see the lies they tell about me? Do I ever stop you from seeing your dad? It's your choice! You could go over there right now if you wanted to!".

She might still be holding DSS15 back just to prove some kind of point, though ("he refuses to see his dad, I can't make him" blah blah, that kind of point).

The good thing about DSS18 and DSD19 being older is that if they contact/see DH and BPDmom starts her alienation (raging, emotionally withholding, whatever) then they can just say "I don't want to or have to deal with this, peace out!" and leave.

I'm glad that DSD19 showed up to the party. 

[sanemom]

BPD mom is avoiding service, but she did see her lawyer last week (who is refusing to confirm or deny that he is still her lawyer).

I swear, they are ridiculous.  We are about to hire a PI to find out where she works.

[ForeverDad]

Do you pay for the expenses too - the drinks and $1 bills?

[sanemom]

I am starting to think that her lawyer did not give her all of the information because she seemed a bit manicky on social media (according to my friends) until she was actually served--and now it has been quiet from her.  I also think that she may have been avoiding service until her lawyer advised her not to because she actually made sure the kids weren't there (which is unlike her).  

And the day after she was served, DSS15, the one who has been avoiding us, suddenly started liking some old pictures on my mom's facebook page.  He has avoided ALL contact with anyone on our side for months.  I hope that is a good sign.  I would be shocked if he had not read the paperwork (if BPD mom didn't show it to him, he likely looked for it because she generally does show the kids the court paperwork).  I keep trying to put myself in his shoes reading the paperwork; both affidavits talk about how mom needs help to realize that what she is doing is harming the kids, and that DSS15 will not be able to have any relationship with his dad as long as mom has unsupervised access to him.  It is a bit daunting to think about how he may be if he is ordered to come back to our house after all this time.

[Nope]

And the day after she was served, DSS15, the one who has been avoiding us, suddenly started liking some old pictures on my mom's facebook page.  He has avoided ALL contact with anyone on our side for months.  I hope that is a good sign.  I would be shocked if he had not read the paperwork (if BPD mom didn't show it to him, he likely looked for it because she generally does show the kids the court paperwork).  I keep trying to put myself in his shoes reading the paperwork; both affidavits talk about how mom needs help to realize that what she is doing is harming the kids, and that DSS15 will not be able to have any relationship with his dad as long as mom has unsupervised access to him.  It is a bit daunting to think about how he may be if he is ordered to come back to our house after all this time.

Anything we see of what is going on at the other house is seen in a vacuum. It could be a million things. It wasn't until BPDm's mom testified that we found out that BPDm was throwing full blown screaming toddler meltdown-style temper tantrums in front of the kids when she would get served. Getting a court date and forcing a BP to show up and deal with us on our terms is probably the ultimate form of seizing control. There is probably nothing more triggering. For all you know he is getting a taste of what living with her is really like and he isn't liking it as much as he thought he would. But you won't really know his view on all of this until he's actually back home.  In short, you have no way of knowing what is going on in that house, so for your own sanity try not to worry about it. I know, much easier said than done, but I found for me that when I accepted that even if I knew that knowing wouldn't change what was coming.

[sanemom]

Very good points, Nope.  It is like I keep hoping for some sign that something will go in our favor for once or something.  It is silly, really.

We have court tomorrow.  Who knows what will happen.  Of course BPD mom filed a motion for continuance and a bunch of denials and a motion to transfer (pretty brave since the judge ordered her to move back to this county).  Gotta wonder if they realize that we have the transcript so they can't pretend the judge said something he didn't.

I reread the closing transcipt--some of the harshness the judge had said prior to the ruling was not in it, but as I was reading, it was like he was thinking that DH was just fighting to "beat BPD mom" and not for the sake of the kids... .saying he needs to let the kids do what they want.  He never really got to hear much of our side, and he DID believe that PA was going on, but it seemed that he really thought that BPD mom would do what she was supposed to do this time because she was in a "precarious position" if she didn't--and she failed to comply with any of his orders.  He kept saying "If she doesn't do X, come back in six months."   She didn't do any of the X he asked her to do.  Let's see if he follows through.

So... .tomorrow we go... .and we see if she once again escapes consequences.

[Thunderstruck]

Good luck tomorrow! Fingers crossed for you!

[Catsmother]

All the best for today. I do hope that the judge takes the time to remember what he said previously, and doesn't pander to her victimness.

[Panda39]

Wishing you well today too... .Hope the court/judge finally gets it right 

Panda39

[Nope]

Keeping fingers crossed for you.

[sanemom]

Continuance until 7/6... .BPD mom claimed not enough notice (of course she evaded service for weeks, and her lawyer knew). BPDmom brought both DSS15 and DSS18 to court... .poor kids. We talked with CPS investigator who reported to us that she was not very forthcoming with BPDmom's attorney regarding her testimony (she gets her game).  She joked that it will be a surprise for her lawyer. BPD mom's attorney kept talking about all the depositions he wanted to take to close this case once and for all... .he said it so many times, I think he was bluffing.

Our attorney was really good about giving the judge the brief rundown of how BPD mom has violated every order he made AND how she perjured herself on the stand.  The judge was very angry with BPD mom for not following any of the orders and told her attorney that she better start following them before the next hearing. He was most upset that DH has not seen his son since early March, and her attorney told the judge that DSS15 didn't want to see his dad, and the judge said, "I don't care. Mom's the boss. She needs to make him go." We shall see what happens on Father's Day weekend.

Her attorney also started going on and on about DH not paying any support, but then admitted that the child support site says she is $24000 behind and then claimed that the site was incorrect. The judge asked, "Well, has she sent any support to him?" "No." The judge said, ":)o you think I am going to go after him for not paying her child support when she is over $20000 behind?"

Another month of alienation, and another month of giving her a chance to shape up. July is supposed to be our period of possession... .wonder if BPD mom will follow the orders for the month or not.  If she does, we would have DSS15 on the date of the hearing so I am guessing she will not.  Time will tell... .

[Panda39]

I'm sorry there hasn't been any resolution yet.  Did the boys sit in the courtroom and listen to what was said?

[sanemom]

I'm sorry there hasn't been any resolution yet.  Did the boys sit in the courtroom and listen to what was said?

No--mom left the in the hall.  I am sure that she doesn't want them to hear the judge griping about what she is doing wrong.

[Catsmother]

The system is ridiculous, all the continuances etc. But it is less than a month to go, so it will be interesting to hear how things go between now and then. And also interesting to hear how she spins it with the boys. At least she got a bit of a bollocking, but we know she will have her own take in this.

[Nope]

Ah, the continuance game. It kept DH from seeing the kids for more than a year. It will be interesting to see how this goes in your case. I'm glad she is at least having no luck getting child support.

[sanemom]

Maybe I am being too optimistic, but I can see how it could work in our favor.  First, today's hearing may serve as a good primer for the judge's memory--we haven't seen him in 7 months.  He will remember our case much better in a month after today's update.   Second,, he gave BPD mom another chance to behave.  Now I am not a betting woman, but my guess is that what he said about child support is so triggering to her that she may be too dysregulated to behave and will still not comply with the order... .which in turn will convince the judge even more. 

When we emailed the CPS investigator the affidavits that describe how much manipulative power that BPD mom has over the kids, she actually responded to our email with a "Wow".

[Thunderstruck]

and her attorney told the judge that DSS15 didn't want to see his dad, and the judge said, "I don't care. Mom's the boss. She needs to make him go."

EXACTLY! I say this every time someone on here (or our uBPDbm) says the BPDparent claims "I can't make the kid do something they don't want to do".    Awesome to hear the judge say that!

The continuance is frustrating... .but it sounded like the judge was really upset/on your side. I'd be really bothered by the kids being at the court house and only hearing BPDmom's "truth" about what was happening. I'm sure she played the victim "oh poor me, your mean dad takes me to court over every little thing to harass me" blah blah blah.

Funny how BPDmom's lawyer was just throwing out the one piece of "dirt" to try to make DH look bad and it backfired. Oh, I'm suuuuure he has depositions to take. It's all going to be a bunch of bologna.

I think she's too deep into this lie to change her act. She has convinced herself that keeping SS15 away from DH is what needs to be done and she is going to spend all her time making that happen (it doesn't matter what anyone, even the judge, says on the contrary). She is going to step up her alienation game. She will fabricate witnesses and evidence to support her case. I bet you a dollar she will have people that you've never even met testify how horrible a father that DH is.

[Panda39]

I'm sorry there hasn't been any resolution yet.  Did the boys sit in the courtroom and listen to what was said?

No--mom left the in the hall.  I am sure that she doesn't want them to hear the judge griping about what she is doing wrong.

Well thank goodness for that at least... .the judge would have made them wait outside anyway if she tried to bring them in.  It sucks that they had to be dragged there at all (and put in the middle of the conflict) probably hardest on the 15 year old that now seems to be her focus.  Well another month of watching mom do who knows what and then back to court.  Hopefully the judge will finally act on behalf of these kids.