How to deal with this.

[maxsterling]

I need help with this specific situation. 

W has painted another teacher (Teacher 2) black.  I could see this happening after the first time W and Teacher 2 met, with W making comments about Teacher 2 being annoying and having certain political views.  I don't know why W painted her black, but I suspect envy, projection, and competition had something to do with it.  Both teach the same grade, and their classrooms are adjacent, so they are forced to work together.

Over the course of the next few weeks, things got worse to the point where every night W would complain to me about what Teacher 2 did or said.  W would use some harsh language in her description, and did plenty of venting.  I mostly listened, did my best to validate, and then try and steer the emotions to something more positive.

I only hear one side of the story, but I am understanding this bad blood is going both ways now, with both W and Teacher 2 acting and reacting in ways that are passive aggressive.  They both seem to have the opinion that the other hates her, and are reacting as if that is the case.  The reaction obviously inflames things.  Knowing my wife, I can see how this has gotten out of hand.  W had problem with Teacher 2 from beginning.  When W doesn't like someone, it's obvious because her behavior and tone become slightly hostile.  Other people pick up on these behaviors in W - little things like slightly raised voice, W pointing out flaws or asking too many questions, sighing, and using words like "whatever".  Some people respond by backing away, others by being confrontational, and others by being passive aggressive.  I've seen this over and over. 

This has gotten so bad that the administrators at work called a special meeting yesterday between W and Teacher 2 to resolve the issue.  W obviously had much anxiety over this and led to a dysregulation at home. Last night W told me about the meeting. W said she felt like Teacher 2 accused her of things that didn't happen and that the administrators validated teacher 2's side of things.  W said she followed up with the administrators later in the day to share her side of things, which she didn't feel comfortable sharing during the meeting.  W said she felt insulted and embarrassed by the meeting, but was glad she had a followup.

Also discussed by the principal during the followup was another incident.  Apparently sometime last week, the principal and the curriculum coach came in to W's class to observe for a few minutes.  During the followup yesterday, the principal discussed what that was about.  Apparently, the principal and the coach were down the hall and heard W screaming at her students, so came into the classroom to see if everything was ok.  W recounted the incident with the principal, and said the students weren't following directions, said she got frustrated, but doesn't remember raising her voice that much.  The principal said her voice was raised so much that it could be heard down the hall.  W said she was not aware that her voice had gotten that loud.

My question - what is the best way to handle this?  W told me all this last night, and I mostly just listened and tried to not voice any opinion or offer advice in any way.  Mainly just tried to show that I was here to listen and not judge.  She did ask a few specific questions and made a few specific comments that I also tried to avoid addressing directly.  She asked if she was a bad (she might have used the word "terrible" because she yelled at the kids.  I tried to not answer that question directly.  I discussed finding a different approach with her students.  Apparently, the principal discussed this approach with her as well.

This morning W made two more comments.  She wanted reassurance or validation that the principal was only trying to help her and not punish her.  I reassured and said that having such discussions with teachers is part of the principal's job, and that the principal is only trying to help her enjoy her job more.  W then talked about how she raises her voice and is unaware, and asked "I do that with you, too, don't I?"  I replied with an affirmative. 

The reality here is that I am extremely concerned.  It really isn't okay that my wife raised her voice at the children.  I'm sure the principal is also concerned about both situations and will keep a close eye on things.  I also think that given the big picture, it is likely that the administration is tending to take the side of Teacher 2 here.  I feel like I want to express to my W how concerned I am.  But - do I express that, or is it best to just keep my mouth shut?  It sounds like she is already on the path of figuring out her role in things - perhaps let her walk that path at her own pace?  Or is this the time to try and persuade things in some way? 

My gut is telling me to stay 100% out of it, and only be there to listen and provide comfort and support.  But darn if I am not tempted to step in here... .Thoughts?

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[Notwendy]

Not your circus, Max , not your monkeys.

You can be a comfort to your wife by listening and being empathetic, but this is her job.

It is the principal's job to assess your wife's performance. No, it isn't good to yell at the kids, but it isn't your job to handle this.

You are hearing your wife's version of this, and so, you can not know the whole picture, so you are not in any position to have input to this.

Yes, your impulse is to jump in, because dysfunctional relationships operate on the drama triangle. Your wife is coming to you as a Victim. Teacher #2 ( and possibly the principal) is the Persecutor, and you Max, can be the Rescuer if you choose this. But you know that all roles lead to Victim and the whole thing is dysfunctional.

These roles are so automatic - formed in childhood- that it feels right to us to jump in, and wrong to us to stay out. I wrote on another thread that I went home for a family visit and watched mom and baby bro get into it. I almost jumped in to rescue baby bro, because it was so automatic for me to take that role. Then I realized - not my circus, not my monkeys, and "baby bro" is a full grown man and can take care of himself.

Your wife is an adult. Treat her as such. You would be angry if someone else stepped in to your job, so do the same for her. Let her handle it.

What you may really fear is that she may lose her job, and then what, but she needs to learn how to act on the job, and if you rescue her, she won't. You may think you are being the good guy, but you are making her weaker by keeping her from the consequence of her actions.

What is tempting you is the drama hook. The payoff of being the rescuer is to be the good guy, but you know that doesn't last. The cost is drama. Don't bite the hook. 

[sweetheart]

My gut is telling me to stay 100% out of it, and only be there to listen and provide comfort and support.  But darn if I am not tempted to step in here... .Thoughts?

My thoughts are your gut is 100% right! This is not something you can sort for her, it is important that she is allowed to experience the consequences of her behaviours.

Remember you can start to move from surviving to thriving by changing your interactions with your wife. Just being there to listen, support and validate is part of that process. Rescuing her keeps you in survival mode only.

These are the small changes that can start to make a difference.

Asking this question in your post rather than posting after rescuing your wife indicates to me a positive shift in your thinking process. 

[maxsterling]

My temptation is to step in and pass judgment:

"Yes, yelling at children is not good."

"The way you talk about Teacher 2 to me is hostile and negative.  Perhaps that attitude is showing when you talk to her."

I know this would be bad, bad, bad.  I think I am tempted because I am tired of the negativity, especially when she is complaining about something that seems as plain as day to me.  I also feel like not saying anything is not being truthful.  But I know that both of these issues do not involve me.  They involve W, Teacher 2, and her superiors. 

[Daniell85]

Maybe if your wife brings up her raised voice thing again and says she doesn't realize how loud she is, you can tell her you totally understand how it seems she wasn't doing it on purpose, she just didn't realize. And now that she does, possible this can give her a guidepost for thinking further on things she may be doing without intention and simply not being aware of.

So it's kind of not her fault... but now that she has caught on, maybe she can slow down and pay more attention to herself so she knows when she needs to take a little break or do something to lower the intensity of things.

I am not very diplomatic, so maybe someone else could phrase it in a better way that won't set off her sensitivities.

[Notwendy]

My temptation is to step in and pass judgment:

1)"Yes, yelling at children is not good."

2)"The way you talk about Teacher 2 to me is hostile and negative.  Perhaps that attitude is showing when you talk to her."


That gets you onto the drama triangle as the Persecutor. Do you really want to go there?

#1 It is the principal's job to deal with how she behaves in the classroom

#2. You do have the right to not listen to negative speech, but in these terms you are being critical of her and you are judging her which is not your job. Try not to use the word "you" and replace it with "I".  " I am sorry you are having these issues at work. I don't think I am the best person to talk to about this"

[OffRoad]

My temptation is to step in and pass judgment:

"Yes, yelling at children is not good."

"The way you talk about Teacher 2 to me is hostile and negative.  Perhaps that attitude is showing when you talk to her."

I know this would be bad, bad, bad.  I think I am tempted because I am tired of the negativity, especially when she is complaining about something that seems as plain as day to me.  I also feel like not saying anything is not being truthful.  But I know that both of these issues do not involve me.  They involve W, Teacher 2, and her superiors. 

If she directly asks you (or did ask you) and can do what you did: come up with another plan for dealing with unruly children. She already knows yelling at children is no good. What she didn't know what that she was doing so, or that she was actually yelling.

As to the teacher, again only if she asks, you can ask her if there is anything good about teacher 2. Is there some common ground she can find with teacher 2 so they can get along better? Let her figure out her solutions. Just point her in the right direction without telling her she is wrong.

[Sunfl0wer]

I think any attempt that you make to "erase" or "soothe" her emotional discomfort is putting yourself in the role as her emotional caretaker.  

I believe this is a fail-fail position to put yourself in.  It sends the message that she is an incapable victim, and eventually, we all know that triangle will shift.

What if you tell her that yelling at the kids is wrong?  Well, now aren't you just persecuting her?  Same thing-just different points of the same triangle?

So what if you do a validate - then drop it quick move... .then maintain your hold on the final stance?  (I'm making this up on the spot here)

Such as: "Wow, this certainly sounds challenging!  It sounds like you are doing your best under difficult circumstances.  I honestly don't even know what to tell you to do better dear.  However things play out, I know you gave it your best, and that is all we can do sometimes."

Edit: The final stance is to "play dumb" and act continually baffled, then leave if attacked.  Such as... ."Yea, i can see that is stressful, I really have no ideas about it." As you also busy yourself with something to exit looking dumbfounded and dazed still.

[waverider]

If you get involved it will create a "the worlds against me" mentality. That will then become the agenda instead of the actual issue.

How does your wife manage to get the references for these jobs if her past is littered with workplace disputes?

You know how this is going to pan out, what makes you think it will be any different this time, or that you can in any way make it different?

[Ceruleanblue]

Waverider is right, I'm sure. You know how this is likely to pan out.

It's so tempting to try to help them see why they keep bumping into these same issues, over and over, but I agree that that is likely to just set her off, or allow her to rope you into being the rescuer. "

Personally, I'd validate as much as you are able, in order to make your life more comfortable, and maybe she'll eventually reason it all out on her own. They sure never want to hear the truth, so telling them is a waste of time usually, and more often sets them off, or ropes us into the drama.

BPDh likes his current job, but he switched jobs because he'd called his last boss a "pu**y",  in front of others, and they hired someone for a promotion he was passed over for(Gee, wonder why), and he was having to catch that guy up to speed, and I think he knew it was a matter of time. So far he likes his new boss, but they guys under him have started hating him, and have both reported his communication skills stink. BPDh's new boss has addressed this with him. The old me would have done tons of reassuring, and tried to show him history repeating. It's still tempting, but so far I've resisted, and he's been at this job for well over a year now.

I know things will play out how they will regardless of anything I do or say, because he controls how he acts at work, not me. I'll try to empathize if and when the trouble starts, but I'm keeping my answers and validating statements short, lest it all blow up on me. I know all too well, as do you Max, just what these people are dealing with.  

[maxsterling]

The past few days, the focus has been less on the other teachers and more on her students and their performance (or lack thereof).  Last night, she was burnt out, and told me she feels like she has no idea what she is doing. This morning was more negativity and rants.  I'm just so tired of the negativity I was just silent.  Then she was mad that I was silent and not trying to validate/reassure her.  Egad.  I did my best to communicate that I can't fix her anxiety or negative feelings, but that trust that things will get easier with time.  I'm just tired of trying to play the broken record over again. 

[Ceruleanblue]

Boy, can I relate. I too am so tired of the utter negativity BPDh aims at me and our marriage. It's like he purposely looks for flaws instead of good. In me, and in our relationship. I've accepted that he's always likely to act erratic, and have mood swings. I've accepted all of it except the abuse. That's my line in the sand. Verbal abuse is still abuse.

Like you, I'm tired of listening to all the negative crap. At least it's not about YOU, Max? Does that make it any easier to take? I'm sure that have been times it has been about you? Other than when I'd just met BPDh and his boss was his target, it's always been me or my son who got the brunt of his anger, and complaints. It just gets only beyond belief.

And it's weird, but they know when we are not totally tuned into validating their complaints. BPDh will criticize me, then expect me to tell him I'll start working on it. I'm done doing that, unless I too feel it's an issue I need to work on.

Max, what happens if you just make yourself scarce when she starts her complaints? Does that make her escalate?

[Cole]

Not your circus, Max , not your monkeys.

Best advice for life with a pwBPD I have seen. If you ever decide to write a book, please use that as a title!

My gut is telling me to stay 100% out of it, and only be there to listen and provide comfort and support.  But darn if I am not tempted to step in here... .Thoughts?

Maxsterling,

I have asked before and will ask again: Are you sure we are not married to the same woman?

I understand this is a hard place to be in. I have been there multiple times myself. She is looking for you to jump in and tell her she is right and fight her battle with her. If you do, you are supporting her behavior and reinforcing her belief that everyone at work is against her, just like Waverider said.

And the catch... .If you don't, you are failing to take her side and are therefore the enemy as much as the other teacher and everyone else in the school who is persecuting her. No doubt she firmly believes they are all out to get her, and nothing you say is going to change her mind.

There is an art to staying the heck out of this. I found that by listening only and refusing to participate, I can usually steer clear of it. If she forces the issue, I change the subject.

Whatever you do, avoid the big mistake of trying to fix it or negotiate a solution; you will lose every single time. Learned that one the hard way before I found this forum.