Need a drink, want a drink

[Enabler]

Needing a drink vs wanting a drink...

It's something that I've been pondering since I met my first would be alcoholic at university. At uni almost everyone drinks a lot, yet some people drank in a different way . My flatmate at uni, 'T', who's mother was a depressive alcoholic, drank in this different way. T would search for excuses to drink, any excuse, and once he started he didn't stop. It wasn't about the fun fro T, it was about getting wasted, it was about not being normal. It took the edge off some discomfort.

So, why am I raising this now? So, I've been a little sanctimonious over the past few years, coming home, seeing evidence of booze consumption when I've gotten home from work ~18:30. I'd be thinking to myself "hmmm, W having a glass of wine or a gin or 3 before 18:30, that's a little punchy". However, due to covid I'm at home and will often have a beer late afternoon early evening and then maybe some wine later in the evening watching TV. I keep thinking to myself, "have I been too harsh and judgemental about my W's seeming need for booze?"... yet... quite a lot of me thinks that we both have different motivations around booze. I can usually tell when my W is going to reach for the bottle of wine, there seems to be some stress in the air, the wine resolves that for her. Me on the other hand, if things are chilled, I'll likely have a drink, if things aren't chilled, I'll likely not drink.

I think what I'm trying to say is that I want a drink as an enhancement to an already sense of calm. I sense that my W needs drink to gain that sense of calm.

Anyone have any thoughts on this.

Enabler

[formflier]

So...one of my duties for a while in the Navy was "alchohol counselor"  (not the official title, like many government things they title was changed often but the function remained the same).

Basically I would be the guy that was "monitoring" all the guys in a command that had "alcohol issues" (again broad things from abuse to dependence).  Then I would give updates to the chain of command about how they were doing, what the next step was..etc etc.

So...on the one hand I don't believe in the "disease made me do it, I had no choice" model (I believe all people have choices), I did moderate my views with experience and came to understand that peoples relationship with alcohol was/is incredibly complex, because usually it is related to other dysfunction.

It's also related to/influenced by "culture". 

I "was raised" in the Navy when "liquid lunch" was normal.  Nobody batted an eye.  Then held on for the wild ride as "culture" changed.

Anyway...I would resist projecting your "reasons" on your wife.  Many people drink to "reward themselves".  I could easily see your wife believing she did a great job sunning herself in the garden and "treating her body right" with sunscreen, therefore...time to pour a reward.

I say this because I often get the sense that your wife does things because "she deserves"...

Please don't hear me say I think your wife is "not chaotic", but I rarely get the sense that chaos is "primary".

What do you think?  Any of this ring true to you?

Best,

FF

[Enabler]

Great insight FF, I certainly think there is a good dose of "I deserve it" in many circumstances and that likely explains the post lunchtime bottle of prosecco being opened. But there are other occasions (daily) where it seems it's 'reached for' to 'cope with' things. I smoked from a teenager to mid 30's. I still use the nicotine losengers. I know that when anxiety rises I reach for a losenger in much the same way I would have done a cigarette. I see the same kind of behaviour in my W self soothing with a drink or 5. I don't use drink in that way, some people do, and I'm not saying that's 'a problem'... until it is a problem.

That said, I'm not sure I'd know how much of a problem 'it' was until now as she's been out so many evenings until covid lockdown.

[formflier]

  W self soothing with a drink or 5. 

You may be 100% right..that's possible.  I would even suggest it is "likely", seeing as how you know her better than us.

I would challenge you to examine "how" you know drinking=self soothing, since I doubt she explicitly communicates this to you.

Be deliberate about "considering the possibility" of other reasons being "primary".

"break break" (navy radio term...have fun looking it up)

Let's say you are right...what then?

Let's say you are no right...what then?

Hope you are doing well...as well as possible.  Thought about you when the "thunderstorm" passed through my life yesterday (check my recent post).

Best,

FF

[Enabler]

My sense that she self soothes comes from the almost mechanical response to stress happening and a drink being sought. There's an atmosphere and when that atmosphere comes through a drink appears.

Another thing. I wake up of a morning and think about what we're going to have for dinner. My W rarely considers dinner until 30 mins before dinner time... but she'll pop a bottle of white in the fridge soon after breakfast. It's important to her.

[Cat Familiar]

Alcohol is a necessary “food group” for my husband. It’s caused a lot of difficulty between us, but most of that was because I was being judgmental. However I did have good reason to do so. He was combining it with pharmaceuticals and I was worried he’d OD, as there were times I’d found him unresponsive.

In retrospect, it would have been better had I called 911, rather than nagging him later. Instead, I monitored his pulse and his breathing and correctly assessed that he’d sleep it off. But it certainly was anxiety inducing and I hadn’t entered into the relationship to test my memory of EMT skills.

Nowadays I don’t bug him about drinking, he doesn’t use pharmaceuticals recreationally, and he isn’t getting passout drunk. In fact, I’m drinking a couple of glasses of wine every night with dinner during this quarantine.

I enjoy a good wine after a productive workday, fixing fences or tending to the garden and animals. For my husband, I suspect alcohol is a momentary reprieve from the near constant anxiety I suspect he feels.

I don’t feel much different if I don’t drink, but I’ll admit it’s a nice pleasure during this very weird time.

[formflier]

but she'll pop a bottle of white in the fridge soon after breakfast. It's important to her.

This is a big and important observation...IMO.

She is being thoughtful about alcohol, more so that food.

Frankly, I would put more focus on this than "why".  I would suggest that "self soothing" is likely an oversimplification.

Hmm...I'm going to mull this over for a while.

Best,

FF

[Ozzie101]

Alcohol consumption has come up a lot in my life as well.

I’m a teetotaler (no moral judgement — I just don’t like the taste) and H doesn’t drink much. But if he’s stressed or moody, even a glass of wine can tip him over into “H isn’t here anymore” territory.

He’s admitted to me that he fears he has a problem with it. Also, he says he drinks it to relax, yet he says he is fully aware that it has the opposite effect. He just convinces himself each time that it will be different. He’s taken to sneaking it and hiding it — then admitting to me later.

As I understand, alcohol is a common self-soothe thing for a lot of people but it can be way more complicated.. In my case, I wouldn’t have a problem with it except it tends to turn my H into a monster.

[GaGrl]

My DH's ex no longer drinks, but in the early years when they were first married, her partying and alcohol consumption was a problem -- rather than soothing her, it ramped up her emotions. During her multiple extramarital affairs, alcohol was involved in the worst confrontations with boyfriends that went violent and resulted in arrests. (Why she was never violent with her husband is another speculation entirely.)

We think alcohol was very much tied to her need to escape the house, husband (when he wasn't posted elsewhere or deployed overseas, which was frequently the case) and children -- this the "I'm out and I'm free" combo of clubbing, dancing, drinks, and other men. She's not one to sit and sip to relax in the evening.

[Skip]

So, I've been a little sanctimonious over the past few years, coming home, seeing evidence of booze consumption when I've gotten home from work ~18:30. I'd be thinking to myself "hmmm, W having a glass of wine or a gin or 3 before 18:30, that's a little punchy". ...//..."yet... quite a lot of me thinks that we both have different motivations around booze. Enabler

Does your wife show any signs of alcohol abuse? Is alcohol creating any dysfunction in her life (e.g., late for work, doesn't pick up kids from school, etc.)?  Is she showing any medical signs of alcohol poisoning - like abnormal liver blood tests (ALT, AST, albumin, bilirubin)?

If not, then you may be looking to assure yourself that you are the morally superior adult in house.

Why do you need this assurance? She is 4 years into a marital affair?

I suspect this has a lot to do with living in a highly invalidating environment for years where you both (I'm being impartial here) cope by devaluing and invalidating each other. You both want the validation that a loving partnership brings - but it doesn't exist between you. She blames you for starting it. You blame her for being nonconstructive in her response - her affair is certainly that on steroids.

I don't think the drinking you describe is necessarily a matter or inferiority or weakness. I lived in France and there was wine at lunch and dinner and a bottle was always open in the house. I didn't drink it as it was not to my taste to drink that often - but I often had a nip of Bailey's in my morning coffee. My current partner is emotionally stable, a healthcare professional, and very exercise an health conscious. She drinks 30 glasses of wine to my one. She drinks almost everyday - and it is to help her relax / self soothe. I drink a whiskey once a week - usually to be social. I don't see my drinking habits as better or worse.

I would bet that if you found a attractive and stable partner going forward and she drank a bit, you wouldn't give it a thought... unless there were signs of abuse or dependence.

[Enabler]

Yes skip, some of what your message is relaying is correct, other than my motivations for writing this. I believe it’s fair to say that she has not been a responsible parent on occasions due to booze, and maybe on occasions she has put her desires to get wasted above that of the children’s desires to go home or not be walking home in the rain and dark... but I wouldn’t say this happens with any regularity.

My point was more that I wanted to explore the different relationships people (me and my W) have with booze. I drink when I’m having a good time or if my mood suits, I don’t drink to induce a mood... does that make sense? Like Cat said, it’s great to have a certain drink after some hard graft, similarly it’s wonderful to sip on a nice wine whilst watching a film. I’m not suggesting it’s a problem, I’m pretty sure it has been in the past and even she’d admit it has been “a little”, but then there’s many people in the UK who’d describe themselves as a social alcoholic because they don’t drink alone or have to hide bottles of gin in the cornflake box... it doesn’t mean it’s not something... or for all the reasons you mentioned above.

[Skip]

I don’t drink to induce a mood... does that make sense?

What role do the nicotine losengers play when you feel anxious?

[Enabler]

Takes the edge off. I’m hopelessly addicted to nicotine.

Without nicotine I’m -1, with nicotine I’m 0. There’s an underlying tension in me without nicotine which means I’m emotionally more vulnerable, more easily triggered and less able to stay centred. I feel that I NEED nicotine, and in the medium term I do until I’m able to work through withdrawals.

I don’t have that with booze.

[Skip]

Aren't both cases mild chemical dependencies associated with self soothing?

... other than my motivations for writing this.

So its just social musing. 

And your motivation is explore and compare the psycho/physiological reason each of you drink to determine who has the the more honorable "motivations around booze" .

What are you concluding? Do either of you have a destructive chemical dependency or some level of addiction?

[Enabler]

Aren't both cases mild chemical dependencies associated with self soothing?

Yes, that is seemingly correct.

And your motivation is explore and compare the psycho/physiological reason each of you drink to determine who has the the more honorable "motivations around booze" .

Skip, stop skewing my agenda, it's unnecessary and antagonistic. I think it's a relatively significant thing to explore and in many ways the corner stone of many addictions. Why is it that some people can do coke every now and again and not feel the need to do it in the toilets at work. I'm sure it's more complex than to just say "because they are less fond of 'normal' and wish to feel differently". I drink coffee to pick me up, thus I take the drug to induce a different physical and emotional 'state'. I can't say I've done many drugs myself, didn't like smoking weed much as I hated the feeling of being stoned, amphetamines were good but wouldn't go away quick enough, I like a drink but HATE being drunk. This isn't a moral judgement at all but personally I'm kinda okay within a small band around 'normal'. I don't mind driving to a party or a night club and wouldn't say my evening is much better or worse for not drinking/drinking.

I there's a difference between needing something and wanting something. I would say that I need nicotine, because the physical feeling of not having it is sometimes intolerable. I would never say that I need a drink, similarly that I would never say that I need to go for a run. As a statement of fact, my wife would say that she needs the above. Would she see herself having a 'level or addiction' to exercise and booze in the same way I would acknowledge my addiction to nicotine... AND... I don't believe that until recently I have acknowledged them as addictions (at whatever level) and understood them as a need for her. Defining 'destructive chemical dependency' is another tricky one, would my W cause destruction to get those (addictive) needs met? Yes. Did she commit crimes? No. Does the aristocrat who smokes opium not have a destructive chemical dependency since he can afford the drugs and can afford food, yet the homeless man on the street does since he sacrifices food for more heroine?

This isn't a moral question, this is an understanding question as to certain things are deemed as a need for some and a want for others.

Enabler

[once removed]

This isn't a moral question, this is an understanding question as to certain things are deemed as a need for some and a want for others.

this is how you framed the question:

So, why am I raising this now? So, I've been a little sanctimonious over the past few years, coming home, seeing evidence of booze consumption when I've gotten home from work ~18:30. I'd be thinking to myself "hmmm, W having a glass of wine or a gin or 3 before 18:30, that's a little punchy".
...
I keep thinking to myself, "have I been too harsh and judgemental about my W's seeming need for booze?"... yet... quite a lot of me thinks that we both have different motivations around booze.

those are your words, man.

i think what others are getting at is, isnt this how things are often framed between the two of you?

[Enabler]

OR, you are correct in all but your conclusions. I had made judgement, yes, for sure, I'm guilty of being historically judgemental about my W's drinking. Yet now I find myself in a similar position to her i.e. at home at a reasonable hour and having an inclination to have a beer or two at the end of the day, I still see a difference in motivation AND ACTION... which, in turn, got me thinking as to what that motivation was and how and why I, and my W like a drink (as per my statement you highlighted). That did not come from a position of being judgemental or saying it is 'right' or 'wrong', it came from a position of wanting to understand. I am judgemental about certain things, as yourself and Skip have identified. On certain topics I am very Black/White, but on the whole I am very measured about things and seek to understand the root cause of things.

My W and I do drink differently, that's a fact. I wouldn't go to the park with the kids and take a bottle of wine with me. I'd be very unlikely to a party and get so drunk I collapsed in the toilet... I know plenty of people who would... I wouldn't. I am not strongly drawn to 'having a few' as she (and many others) are.

To frame this a different way. I historically couldn't understand why my W would prioritise going for a run over doing the work SHE SAID she would do in the home (whilst I was doing my work out of the home). Clearly one is more enjoyable than the other, but surely all people are capable of prioritising what they need to do rather than just take the cream... aren't they? That exercise was destructive in as much as it ate into the time needed to complete the things that BOTH of us agreed NEEDED to be done. When confronted about this she lied, minimised and turned it back on me... then later complained she never gets time to do the things she NEEDED to do. I then completed the residual tasks in MY time. At the time I did not comprehend that exercise was a physical and more importantly a psychological NEED for her... I also didn't figure it might be an addiction based on that need. Had I had the understanding about what role exercise played in her mental health I might have worked to find a solution, and lets be honest wouldn't it have been great to have addressed the underlying issues that led to the misplaced need.

[Skip]

That exercise was destructive in as much as it ate into the time needed to complete the things that BOTH of us agreed NEEDED to be done. When confronted about this she lied, minimised and turned it back on me... then later complained she never gets time to do the things she NEEDED to do. I then completed the residual tasks in MY time. At the time I did not comprehend that exercise was a physical and more importantly a psychological NEED for her... I also didn't figure it might be an addiction based on that need. Had I had the understanding about what role exercise played in her mental health I might have worked to find a solution, and lets be honest wouldn't it have been great to have addressed the underlying issues that led to the misplaced need.

         I have underlying issues.

[Enabler]

... and your point?

[Skip]

You may be pathologizing human nature, Enabler. She is done with the marriage and feels trapped and resentful about it. She is not trying to be a good partner. She is not trying to be a good room mate. She doesn't want you to feel comfortable in your home in hopes you will leave. She has different priorities in life than you do.

If I was in a similar situation in my home (feels trapped and resentful about it), I would be out on the golf course every chance I get - that would be my priority. I don't do that because I am in a relationship and I have relationship priorities that trump my individual priorities.

The two of you could use some of your time together to line up things needed for the divorce. She would probably appreciate in you could use your organizational skills to get the train on the track.

[Enabler]

It seems you are crossing streams. I'm not referring to a drinking habit/style/frequency that has arisen from our current situation and thus maybe a function to feelings associated to the relationship ending... I'm talking about behaviours that pre-date me... similar my drinking habits pre-date her.

I'm perfectly aware that 'the situation' might result in her feeling the compunction to take a massive dump in the corner of the proverbial cage and in every respect she is doing just that. "This" is deeper than that.

My W seems to not be proactive at all with regards to using this time wisely and thus I feel no compunction to expend effort either. She is far far far more focused in producing marketing material for a local Covid lockdown help group with OM, offering to buy food for the elderly and vulnerable. All very honourable and good for the community, but not a solution for the emotional torture she's suffered at the hands of an abusive husband for the last 23 years.

[Skip]

It seems you are crossing streams. I'm not referring to a drinking habit/style/frequency that has arisen from our current situation and thus maybe a function to feelings associated to the relationship ending... I'm talking about behaviours that pre-date me... similar my drinking habits pre-date her.

I guess I would encourage you to question whether this in anything noteworthy about her drinking.,

I'm perfectly aware that 'the situation' might result in her feeling the compunction to take a massive dump in the corner of the proverbial cage and in every respect she is doing just that.

I feel for you. That is an awful place to be.

My W seems to not be proactive at all with regards to using this time wisely and thus I feel no compunction to expend effort either.

The volcano simmers below the surface for a long time. Then one day it erupts and all hell breaks loose. My advise has always been to be proactive and take care of business and not wait until there in lava flowing in the streets.

[Enabler]

I guess I would encourage you to question whether this in anything noteworthy about her drinking.,

Small, and it certainly has potential... but no, I wouldn't say it was dramatic, dangerous or noteworthy, certainly in comparison to other peoples likely experiences on here... and hence why I've never really questioned it before... that said, I don't know how drunk she's been when she's come in at midnight + as I've been fast asleep on the whole (prior to lock-down). Anyway, a consistent 1-2 bottles of wine are opened an evening at the moment. I reckon I drink 2 glasses of that.

[Skip]

She is drinking 40-50 glasses of wine a week?

[Enabler]

She is drinking 40-50 glasses of wine a week?

I don't think that's an unreasonable estimate, especially when you factor in she might have a double gnt or two or a beer and gnt, then some wine. In the past I would almost always find a gin glass on the side when I got home and then she'd more often than not go out of an evening... which was a bit of a black hole of information. I know that most of it involved going to the pub or going to friends house and bottle of wine or two was usually taken with her... but it's not something I could actually quantify. She would claim that she would drink lime and soda at the pub.

The thing is, in the UK there is such a drinking culture that on the whole it's not that abnormal in some senses... but then is what I was kinda getting at. If you go to France (and I hope I'm not romanticising it too much) as you say, you sit about of an evening and have some wine with food or cheese and it's a sociable thing... but what comes first, the sociable bit or the wine? Many people go to the pub in the UK to socialise... and have a few pints, and then on an occasion one goes to the pub and accidentally socialises too much and the wheels come off.  BUT... for some at least (and this is where my uni flatmate came in) going to the pub or socialising was a means to an ends of justifying getting smashed up... also... does one need to get ruined OR, just get a little tipsy, or, put another way, take the edge off 'that feeling'. By the by, but does my W (or anyone who's that way inclined) socialise to socialise or does she socialise to justify drinking?

I was talking to a couple of chaps through work, both with Dad's who had a drinking problem. One would go to the rugby club every night (or sit by the booze cabinet until he passed out) and the other one would be at the golf club all the time. The Rugby Dad was seen as an alki by his son (the friend), mainly because his Dad ended up in rehab, but the other one would describe his dad as "very sociable"... and the fact that his Dad was p!ssed most night was just a side matter. This son seemed to be a bit conflicted as to whether or not his Dad did actually in fact have a drink problem although then later confessed that the booze fuelled arguments his Mum and Dad had over his Dad's socialising would ultimately lead to their divorce. See what I mean, separating socialising and drinking too much is often challenging. Being sociable is seen as a good thing vs drinking too much is a bad thing... but often sociable people drink too much.

Enabler

[babyducks]

there is such a drinking culture that on the whole it's not that abnormal in some senses... but then is what I was kinda getting at. ... but what comes first, the sociable bit or the wine?

Hello Enabler,

would this be another situation where it is fair to say that your reality and your wife's reality do not closely align?

my observation is that your world view and your wife's world view very seldom match.     please understand that doesn't mean one world view is right and the other wrong.    to me it means that you have very different perspectives.

I recall often being surprised by how different my Ex's world view was from mine.     we did not process life the same.    even when I thought I had gotten used to how differently we saw things I would from time to time be surprised by it.    honestly there were times I felt like it was impossible that we were the same species in the same place because our views were so different.     

what I learned from that was to allow her to have her own world view.     radical acceptance.     radically accepting did not mean being passive.    it didn't mean approval.   it meant not trying to match my world view to hers in the hopes of a better outcome.

My W seems to not be proactive at all with regards to using this time wisely and thus I feel no compunction to expend effort either.

it's hard to define our feelings or ourselves as separate and independent from theirs, isn't it?

'ducks

[Enabler]

Well I'm not 100% sure that she doesn't have at least some awareness. A few years back as you're aware I got a window into her and OM's world when I read 2 years worth of Whatsapps... they referred to a discussion they had had (at the pub) one evening about being "functional" or "sociable" alcoholics. Again, a conversation a few people have likely had in the past and a label some of my other male friends wear with pride. Or maybe one of those boxes they both opened the lid on and shut pretty damn quickly before exclaiming "nothing to see!".

My W will often suggest I drink every night, when I didn't/don't at all. Maybe she felt better thinking I did.

I've radically accepted that we have different perceptions of reality, I'm still / and likely always will search as to what mine is... part of that is understanding the 'players' around me and how they work.

[formflier]

... part of that is understanding the 'players' around me and how they work.

I totally get this.

The one thing I'm not tracking on is how this will help, hurt or be indifferent.

I'm getting the vibe that understanding the "why" (self soothing) seems important.  My input would be that it's unlikely you will unravel or understand "the why".   I would also caution that many people appear to make judgments about "the why" (perhaps that it's ok to drink for these reasons and not for others), rather than making a judgment about the drinking itself (or if drinking is having a negative impact)

For me...it was telling that she "preps" her alcohol well in advance.  I got the vibe she does this consistently.  (should I have gotten that vibe?)

To me...that indicates the importance she places on her relationship with alcohol.


Clarity:  I'm not suggesting that in an of itself is enough to diagnose or suggest dependence, abuse or any of the other "labels" that are used.  I am suggesting those that do that kind of thing would take note of that particular aspect of how she relates to alcohol.

Best,

FF

[Enabler]

I think prepping is the right word. There is concern around whether on not booze is ready and whether the things to go with booze are available.

One thing to note and this could have been for any number of reasons, but when booze was a lesser part of her life, the relationship was better. Chicken or egg I don’t know. Similarly when I’ve either smoked or not smoked there has been less volatility in our relationship (giving up or cutting down causes withdrawal and anxiety). Each factor introduces its own level of emotional volatility as and when the NEED for nicotine or NEED for alcohol adds that little bit of anxiety. I know I’m more irritable when I need nicotine, and in a world full of straw you don’t many sparks to create a fire... or in our relationships case, a bush fire! 

Are there problems associated with it? It’s hard to tell. If drinking is a salve for her current predicament (doubtful) then me being out the equation in the long term means no problem. If I’m not the cause, well then I can see a problem occurring since of booze and socialising are a NEED and that need can’t be fulfilled because she has to be a full time responsible parent with limited financial resources, well then something has to give, I would hope responsible parenting would, but I don’t much know anymore. I mean several years back she pitched questions to me about leaving the kids in bed to go for an early morning run in the woods (youngest 4), what might she have done had I have not been here to say NO? Who knows, I don’t, but then why would I have that level of trust in her integrity?

Enabler

[Skip]

We have talked in detail before about her keeping you around (married or not married) because you are her nanny. And you enable it by being passive aggressive on the divorce and tolerating her having a lover for years. She tests you constantly to see how much she can get away with you respond by allowing the barrier of self respect move down a notch each time.

You've enabled this approach and it has only fed a deterioration in your relationship with her and the increased the toxicity in your children's home. All the data would say that it is not working.

I can see a problem occurring since of booze and socialising are a NEED and that need can’t be fulfilled because she has to be a full time responsible parent with limited financial resources, well then something has to give, I would hope responsible parenting would, but I don’t much know anymore.

Something will give. That is how these things work. When you split up, both of you will spend a few years untangling from the old "normal" and embracing a new "normal" and you will come out as very different people. Single parenting is its own unique world with many conflicting priorities that will resolve.

Everything that you have said suggests that you will have a lot of time with your children if you get out before things reach "scorched earth" level. Once the priority becomes hurting the other partner (over taking care of children) there will be no turning back... just as now... there is no turning back to where the two of you once were.

[formflier]

We have talked in detail before about her keeping you around (married or not married) because you are her nanny. And you enable it by being passive aggressive on the divorce and tolerating her having a lover for years. She tests you constantly to see how much she can get away with you respond by allowing the barrier of self respect move down a notch each time.

You've enabled this approach and it has only fed a deterioration in your relationship with her and the increased the toxicity in your children's home. All the data would say that it is not working.
 

This all seems accurate.

There seem to be pathways you can choose from this, therefore I would suggest putting energy and thought over here.

I'm not sure "where" any discussion/analysis of alcohol use could go.  I see energy and thought put into alcohol as largely unproductive, especially compared to putting energy into the future status of your marriage.

Best,

FF