I am in a room with a thousand doors. (Part 1)

[C.Stein]

As some of you might be aware I have been considering reaching out to my ex to see if she will consider reconciliation.  Now she has already told me she has "moved on" and is in a new relationship.  While there are many signs that suggest this is the truth and probably is, there are also a few signs that suggest it is not.

While I want to at least try to make it work with her I am opening myself up to more pain and rejection.  It wouldn't really bother me if she never replied because that is what I am expecting, but if she were to reply with more polite coldness it would be very hard for me to handle.

Part of me desperately wants to make things right with her because part of me believes she can be everything I thought she could be.  Then part of me feels she might not be capable of being the type of partner I want and deserve and a life with her will lead to nothing but misery and pain.

This is why I am in a room with a thousand doors.  So many potential paths (doors) and yet the one I have been searching for still eludes me ... .the door that allows me to feel right about letting her go.

She has told me I need to move on and part of me agrees, yet part of me still holds on to the dream we shared together and I am still deeply in love with her.   I can''t seem to find that damn door because of this.  

Feeling very conflicted and confused right now.  Reach out and possibly go through any one of the many other doors or find that one damned elusive door that allows me to let her go.  

How are people here finding their door that leads to letting go and moving on?

[Nextinline]

I wrote in a journal every time we had a fight or split up. I wrote about the venomous things that she said to me and how I was dealing with the pain and trauma it caused me.

I also wrote about how after every fight, the time for me to recover and pull myself out of the hole she put me in was taking longer and longer.

I also recorded the financial pain she caused me, as well as the lies, deceit and the recognition that the only time I ever heard from her post break up was to inflict more blame on me or to seek some soothing because things with the her new partner, that she became engaged to 5 weeks after she was engaged to me, were causing her pain.

So, every time I feel that I am missing her or feeling alone or miserable and want to reach out to her... .I read the notes I made about our dark days. That really wakes me up and makes me realise that I deserve better than what she offered me, that I did not deserve what she did to me and that I am better without her toxicity in my life.

That's what stops me from opening the wrong, or for that matter any door, that relates to my ex.  

[Learning Fast]

C. Stein,

I've opted to let go and move on.  Probably not what you want to hear but I want to be transparent.

I've archived/stored much of what she gave to me during the length of the relationship.  The only receipt that I kept was from an evening that we spent together on Thursday, September 4th 2015.  It was beyond question one of the worst nights that I have experienced as an adult.  Any time that the thought of reaching out crosses my mind looking at that receipt brings me back to reality.

LF

[fromheeltoheal]

Hey Stein-

While your door metaphor has some merit and possibility, there's "looking and finding" going on, and there might be a way that takes a lot less work, but is no easier.  How about try letting go?  We don't have to do anything to let go, just let go, minimal effort required, although going from a sliver of hope to no hope at all is a huge leap, not easy to do, but not mysterious either, just let go, and a mandatory step in detaching.

She's told you she has moved on and is in another relationship and has told you that you need to move on too; no ambiguity there, pretty clear, and it doesn't sound like a relationship with her is even an option at this point, so that leaves you no choice, does it?

It's the emotion that stops us, the finality of that letting go and everything we make that mean, and the feelings we get when we just consider it, but the only way out is through, and the rest of your life, a life of your design and worth living, is on the other side of that letting go, so from that perspective, the sooner the better yes?

[Joem678]

What are the signs that suggest not?

[Learning Fast]

FHLH,

Well put.  Skip had mentioned to me on an earlier post that I had to accept the fact that she might be uncertain, might be waiting, may be looking or could already be in a another relationship.  Whatever she was doing one thing was clear---she was opting to do it without me.  A bitter but necessary pill to swallow.  C. Stein, as hard as it may be, you may just have to accept this reality and move on.  If she wants to reconnect she knows where to reach you, my friend.

LF

[antelope]

Part of me desperately wants to make things right with her because part of me believes she can be everything I thought she could be.  Then part of me feels she might not be capable of being the type of partner I want and deserve and a life with her will lead to nothing but misery and pain.

This is why I am in a room with a thousand doors.  So many potential paths (doors) and yet the one I have been searching for still eludes me ... .the door that allows me to feel right about letting her go.

She has told me I need to move on and part of me agrees, yet part of me still holds on to the dream we shared together and I am still deeply in love with her.   I can''t seem to find that damn door because of this.  

what does 'make things right' mean?  isn't that what you probably been painstakingly trying now for weeks/months?

'right' for who?  you, or her?  does that mean becoming a more willing doormat for her?  or does that mean actually fixing something... .about her? 

carefully analyze why 'she might not be capable of being the type of partner I want and deserve' ... .something, or likely several things, led you to this conclusion.  Analyze these reasons, b/c they are more likely grounded in reality than the 'dream' you may be holding on to.

you have 2 doors

one is to continue playing the game, while your personal psychology continues to erode

the other is walking away, and giving yourself some room to figure out what's what.

you're here and on this board for a reason... .work on figuring out exactly why that is, and you may suddenly find yourself with only one door to pick from 

[joeramabeme]

C. Stein, You and I are BPD Brothers, I can relate to almost everything you say, including this post.

I think the responses have been pretty consistent, there is not much left for you to do if your ex has told you to move on.  So the question becomes not IF you can leave the r/s but why are you holding onto the hope. 

My personal answer to the "hope" question is that there are parts of my personal life that I find challenging to deal with.  Things such as; being alone, wanting to share my time with someone, feeling validated in a r/s etc.  Now typically there are a lot of voices that will say you need to learn to be happy with yourself first or that another person doesn't complete you, all that is true enough.  Yet, with the ending of these types of r/s's you feel like you lost the best possible outcome you could get.  But what I am in the midst of (re-) learning about my r/s is that it was not what my memory would have me believe it was. 

Yes, I had the best of times and she was beautiful and had so many traits that I could ask for.  But my selective memory has me exclusively focused on that and not on the other painful times where she belittled me, pushed me away, blamed me and then would bend my mind and heart in a pretzel fashion that no reasonable person can look at and say that is love. 

So, perhaps the question of 1,000 doors is better stated as a question of why only these doors and not the other 1,000 doors that would say you should not enter here? 

Our minds myopically focus on a subset of happiness rather than an all-inclusive picture that tempers our hope with the reality that the r/s overall was probably very unhealthy, non-functional and unsustainable.  Perhaps the better hope to have is that you will achieve a greater degree of intimacy and internal satisfaction with the next person you are with, regardless of the X, Y and Z we thought was irreplaceable.  And that will be because you will have a greater degree of internal togetherness.  I know this is my hope; I will learn from this and find someone who respects all of me - good and bad - just the way I am in a mutually loving way.

Hang in there man, this is hard stuff.  You will get through it.

[C.Stein]

Thank you all for your responses and thoughts, they are much appreciated.  Responding to all the posts here, not in a lot of detail but I hit the major points brought up.

I wrote in a journal every time we had a fight or split up. I wrote about the venomous things that she said to me and how I was dealing with the pain and trauma it caused me.

I wish I had consistently written a journal.  I do have some emails from the first four months of our relationship that detail some of the problems I was having.  I have read back over them a couple of times.  That time of our relationship doesn't accurately represent the entire relationship so it is not an accurate measure of good vs. bad ... and the emails (sent and unsent) mostly focused on the bad stuff that was happening and none of the good.

I do try to recall the bad and it does certainly help.  What has helped the most is trying to recall the feelings I was having that led to me letting her go without a fight in the first place.  Those feelings seem to continue to elude me most of the time. 

What helped the most to reconnect with those feelings was drafting this reconciliation email because then I started realistically thinking about the possible outcomes if we were to get back together.  The outcomes (doors) weren't all bad though but the work required to build a stable and healthy relationship with her, and then eventually a marriage and family would be monumental.  It would not be an easy path for me by any means, emotionally or otherwise, but at one time I was more than willing to do it and I might still be willing to do it now.

I've opted to let go and move on.  Probably not what you want to hear but I want to be transparent.

Honesty is always the best policy and sometimes the truth just hurts like hell.

Hey Stein-

While your door metaphor has some merit and possibility, there's "looking and finding" going on, and there might be a way that takes a lot less work, but is no easier.  How about try letting go?  We don't have to do anything to let go, just let go, minimal effort required, although going from a sliver of hope to no hope at all is a huge leap, not easy to do, but not mysterious either, just let go, and a mandatory step in detaching.

She's told you she has moved on and is in another relationship and has told you that you need to move on too; no ambiguity there, pretty clear, and it doesn't sound like a relationship with her is even an option at this point, so that leaves you no choice, does it?

It's the emotion that stops us, the finality of that letting go and everything we make that mean, and the feelings we get when we just consider it, but the only way out is through, and the rest of your life, a life of your design and worth living, is on the other side of that letting go, so from that perspective, the sooner the better yes?

I have been trying hard to let her go ... .at times I even hate her a little bit, but that goes away and I just miss her  and love her again.  I just can't seem to kick her out of my heart no matter how hard I try.

By all appearances she has forced me to let her go but there were a few things when I said goodbye to her in person that suggests she might not be in a new relationship.  She also has apparently managed to convince herself of things that just aren't true about me.  If she were to actually believe in the truth then she might feel otherwise about the ending.   I am certain she has convinced herself I am a dead end and a waste of her time ... .and she will waste no more time on me.  Her reasons for believing this are not based in truth.  There is also the chance she has convinced herself that I am better off without her, which might be true. 

In short, I was not entirely convinced she had let me go in her heart the last time I saw her, even if she gave no clear outward indication of any feelings for me at all.  It was a few little things and a gut instinct that tell me this.   On the other hand there are far more signs that say she has indeed moved on and she started to do so, at least emotionally, months before the final discard.

What are the signs that suggest not?

Some responses she had towards me when I saw her last that she couldn't hide and one other thing that strongly suggested she might not be in a new relationship.  Of course I could be reaching here too, but I don't think I am.  Point is, it is enough to cast doubt on the truth of her new relationship claim. 

C. Stein, as hard as it may be, you may just have to accept this reality and move on.  If she wants to reconnect she knows where to reach you, my friend.

Yes, I realize acceptance may be my only option here.  She has said she is moving, which could happen at the end of the month or early next year.  Once she moves she will be gone forever (she said as much) and this is the reason for the wanting to reach out to her now.   Worth noting, she doesn't have to move, she could stay in the area and build a future with me, that was the plan earlier this year.

What I am missing here is belief.  Belief that something good won't come from trying to make it work.  Belief that all hope is lost.  The belief that I am better off without her.  The belief that she can't be the type of partner I want.  These are the things I struggle with and are the reason why that door to letting go continues to elude me.

what does 'make things right' mean?  isn't that what you probably been painstakingly trying now for weeks/months?

'right' for who?  you, or her?  does that mean becoming a more willing doormat for her?  or does that mean actually fixing something... .about her? 

carefully analyze why 'she might not be capable of being the type of partner I want and deserve' ... .something, or likely several things, led you to this conclusion.  Analyze these reasons, b/c they are more likely grounded in reality than the 'dream' you may be holding on to.

you have 2 doors

one is to continue playing the game, while your personal psychology continues to erode

the other is walking away, and giving yourself some room to figure out what's what.

you're here and on this board for a reason... .work on figuring out exactly why that is, and you may suddenly find yourself with only one door to pick from 

Make things right means to fix the mistakes I now see I made.  I will not be a doormat.  I feel if I change how I handle things, become a more effective communicator, spend more time with her, things would be much different.  That is not to say the chance doesn't exist that nothing will change with her, but I will never know unless I try.

The reason I feel she might not be capable of being the partner I want and deserve is due to her hurtful behavior towards me over the course of our relationship.  That is where making it right comes in.  I am uncertain how much of an impact my own behavior and distancing impacted hers.  I never treated her badly but I do see areas where I can improve.

All in all she is not that bad (in comparison to what you see reported on this board all to often) and considering she in undiagnosed, I am unsure if she can't improve herself with the right encouragement.  I did give her that encouragement to some extent before I started distancing myself from her due to the emotional pain and fear I was experiencing and I did see some improvement.  That said, the hurtful behavior never stopped entirely. 

My biggest problem/fear with her was the underlying thought processes that led to the hurtful behavior.   This is something that I don't know if it was learned or it is just a part of who she is and will always be.   So there is that doubt that is also holding me back from finding the right door.

[Joem678]

Cstein

Follow your gut.  Be healthy about it.  You know her patterns and behaviors. A person who is ready to move on clearly shows you they are ready to move on!

[C.Stein]

C. Stein, You and I are BPD Brothers, I can relate to almost everything you say, including this post.

I think the responses have been pretty consistent, there is not much left for you to do if your ex has told you to move on.  So the question becomes not IF you can leave the r/s but why are you holding onto the hope. 

My personal answer to the "hope" question is that there are parts of my personal life that I find challenging to deal with.  Things such as; being alone, wanting to share my time with someone, feeling validated in a r/s etc.  Now typically there are a lot of voices that will say you need to learn to be happy with yourself first or that another person doesn't complete you, all that is true enough.  Yet, with the ending of these types of r/s's you feel like you lost the best possible outcome you could get.  But what I am in the midst of (re-) learning about my r/s is that it was not what my memory would have me believe it was. 

Yes, I had the best of times and she was beautiful and had so many traits that I could ask for.  But my selective memory has me exclusively focused on that and not on the other painful times where she belittled me, pushed me away, blamed me and then would bend my mind and heart in a pretzel fashion that no reasonable person can look at and say that is love. 

So, perhaps the question of 1,000 doors is better stated as a question of why only these doors and not the other 1,000 doors that would say you should not enter here? 

Our minds myopically focus on a subset of happiness rather than an all-inclusive picture that tempers our hope with the reality that the r/s overall was probably very unhealthy, non-functional and unsustainable.  Perhaps the better hope to have is that you will achieve a greater degree of intimacy and internal satisfaction with the next person you are with, regardless of the X, Y and Z we thought was irreplaceable.  And that will be because you will have a greater degree of internal togetherness.  I know this is my hope; I will learn from this and find someone who respects all of me - good and bad - just the way I am in a mutually loving way.

Hang in there man, this is hard stuff.  You will get through it.

I was a relatively happy with myself when I met her, well adjusted for the most part.   I wasn't all that happy with my personal life but I also wasn't unhappy either.  I am not the same man now as I was when I met her.  I did allow her to damage me badly on many different levels and I became someone I am not as a result.  This is my fault for letting her do this to me and I let both myself and her down in this regard.  I know this shouldn't happen in a healthy relationship in the first place and I have taken that into consideration here.  

I do try to look at the relationship as a whole and as a whole it was not all that bad.  Most of it was good or great, we get along great together and don't argue or fight the vast majority of the time.  That said, the bad parts damaged me and her inability to empathize and help to repair the damage kept the wounds open, so each time she hurt me they just got deeper.  So it wasn't like a continuous onslaught of bad behavior, it was isolated instances that built on each other over time.  

Again, I may have been able to avoid this had I been a more effective communicator and stop walking on egg shells around her.  I continually bottled up my emotions in order to keep her stable and I paid the price as it substantially increased my anxiety, stress and fears.  I believe this all could have been avoided for the most part with effective communication but perhaps I am wrong.  Maybe this is just what I want to believe but again, without trying how would I know if it wouldn't work?  Letting go without knowing I tried my best is difficult for me.

I addressed the hope question in the previous post but I will note that it wasn't that long ago when she was still making plans for our future together.  I have a hard time believing she has let everything go that easily, including her feelings for me.  It just doesn't add up and I do realize this is something that is commonplace with BPD ... but I still am not entirely convinced she suffers from it without a formal diagnosis.   The behavior and traits I see in her do strongly suggest she suffers from BPD ... which is why I am on this forum.  I would classify her as an internalizing waif most of the time.

I know there is nothing I can do about it now if I am to respect her wishes and not call or text ... . well except the email.  I could go over to her place but that I feel is crossing a line.   Sometimes I do wonder if the most loving thing I can do for her and myself is to let her go.  I do feel she has made substantial personal progress when she was with me so I can't bring myself to believe she is necessarily better off without me.  

Ahh hell ... .damned doors

[hopealways]

Reaching out to Borderlines rarely (if ever) results in the response we expect. Look at all the posts on this forum alone: the Borderline uses you as a form of narcissistic supply, they will not respond to you reaching out your hand in the same way you would. They clench their fists.

I also have found that the BPD does not respect those who try to win them back.  Borderlines are survivalists. They will not respect what they perceive as a needy individual (I am not saying you are needy) and if they loose respect for you then forget about it.  To the Borderline a needy person is not strong enough to protect them and cannot put up with their horrific behavior so they discard them way sooner than the next person. And to a BPD only a needy person tries to win someone back. The BPD does not understand why you would want to win someone so awful back unless you yourself are also awful.

This is not to say that there actually exists someone who can remain in a loving and harmonious relationship with a BPD: that person has yet to exist.  What I AM saying is that it sounds like you want to win her back and the only way to increase your odds at that is to do absolutely nothing.

[Joem678]

Hopealways,

I'm sure it depends on the severity of the BPD and the person. L

Cstein,

Hope is right.  Doing nothing can early earn you self-respect and healing you need. Not from them but for your inner self.  Don't fear letting go.

[disorderedsociety]

Why would they tell you to move on if they're still sick?

Is that like a condescending tactic to erode your self-esteem? A warning?

I got the same message right after my b/u when she was rebounding, telling me it was unhealthy to dwell. Like... .Really?

[Joem678]

Yes it is a way to lower your self esteem.  I have been told "I want a divorce, I hate you, I am in love with someone else, move on, let me be".   I can't trust anything I am told at this point. 

[C.Stein]

The BPD does not understand why you would want to win someone so awful back unless you yourself are also awful.

She has asked me why I love her so much if she is such a bad person.  While what you say is possibly true, especially at this point, the other side of that coin is she would see it as proof of how much I really do love her and am devoted to her.  It could go both ways.

Hope is right.  :)oing nothing can early earn you self-respect and healing you need. Not from them but for your inner self.  :)on't fear letting go.

I don't so much see it as losing self-respect, but rather as doing everything I can so there are no more regrets.  I already have enough regrets.   If I knew with 100% certainty that she really did replace me before we ended things and she is in a new relationship the door to letting her go would be hitting me in the ass as I flew out of it.  I am too old to play the chase game and have zero tolerance for infidelity, especially emotional infidelity given the circumstances surrounding the time when it would have occurred.

I suppose there is some fear at play here as well.  I did share a dream with her that I have never shared with anyone.  If I am honest with myself the chances of this happening again are slim.  She may well have been my last chance at making that dream a reality and this probably does generate some fear and plays into the reason why I am having such a hard time letting her go.

Why would they tell you to move on if they're still sick?

Is that like a condescending tactic to erode your self-esteem? A warning?

I got the same message right after my b/u when she was rebounding, telling me it was unhealthy to dwell. Like... .Really?

For my ex it could be her way of avoiding taking responsibility for her actions.  It is easier for her to cut and run than to face the damage she has done to me and our relationship.  She has manufactured reasons to support this decision and I have given her every reason up to this point that to believe I am OK with letting her go.  

I have sent her several emails (not mean or vindictive but very honest) over the past couple of months that would lead her to believe there is no hope for our relationship.   This has made it easier for her to detach from me without a doubt ... .assuming she even read the emails.  These were all sent after she expressed that it was time to move on.

She has convinced herself I think she is a bad person and I have done almost nothing to this point to convince her otherwise.  She doesn't see me as a positive mirror for her anymore.  I am damaged goods, a dead end, a waste of time, not worth the effort to fix ... .ect... . What I think she sees in me now is her true self and that is just to much for her to handle.   I think this can be fixed, but she has to believe in me and herself if there is any chance.

[FannyB]

C.

I am still i contact with my ex. She is still gorgeous. She is still good to be around now she is not dysregulated in my company.  I still love and care about her, but I do not see my future happiness as being contingent on being in a romantic relationship with her. She is an emotional train wreck and I value myself too much to want to be entwined with her in the way I once was. If I wanted her back them that would say more about my issues than it would about hers! Think of those Indiana Jones movies where he crosses a rickety rope bridge. He always makes it to the other side,  but then the bridge collapses or the ropes are cut. In a BPD relationship you would likely have to traverse that emotional rope bridge every day of your life!    

I too miss the intensity of the idealization phase - but  I no longer crave it.  More pertinently I know that to enjoy that again with my ex would only be a fleeting experience. With every recycle it is the law of diminishing returns in terms of relationship satisfaction. That  is why I don't want her back - that is why you need to find the door with 'C. Stein - YOU deserve better' written on it. Keep reading, posting and digesting the facts about the realities of a relationship with a pwBPD - and these boards will lead you safely to it.


Fanny

[C.Stein]

C.

I am still i contact with my ex. She is still gorgeous. She is still good to be around now she is not dysregulated in my company.  I still love and care about her, but I do not see my future happiness as being contingent on being in a romantic relationship with her. She is an emotional train wreck and I value myself too much to want to be entwined with her in the way I once was. If I wanted her back them that would say more about my issues than it would about hers! Think of those Indiana Jones movies where he crosses a rickety rope bridge. He always makes it to the other side,  but then the bridge collapses or the ropes are cut. In a BPD relationship you would likely have to traverse that emotional rope bridge every day of your life!    

I too miss the intensity of the idealization phase - but  I no longer crave it.  More pertinently I know that to enjoy that again with my ex would only be a fleeting experience. With every recycle it is the law of diminishing returns in terms of relationship satisfaction. That  is why I don't want her back - that is why you need to find the door with 'C. Stein - YOU deserve better' written on it. Keep reading, posting and digesting the facts about the realities of a relationship with a pwBPD - and these boards will lead you safely to it.

Fanny

I agree that my happiness is not contingent on being in a relationship with her.  My happiness has to come from within.  My ex can be an emotional train wreck, this much I know and accept.  Can I live with it ... .I honestly don't know without living with her first.  Thing is I would have to turn my life upside down to find out and I am not really willing to do that without a stable relationship with her that I feel secure in and has permanence and constancy.   I never was never able to get to this point with her and that held us back.  Again ... .better communication skills may have solved this problem.

While I do miss the idealization stage and never expected it to last forever (she did though), what I miss the most is her as a person.  Most of the time she was fine and balanced around me and I really enjoyed being around her.   We were very comfortable around each other.  There wasn't any of the really nasty things you see on this board.  This makes it all the harder for me to believe she is beyond hope.

While there are some truly BPD characteristics they weren't prevalent in the day to day for the majority of our relationship.  However I didn't live with her and we didn't spend a huge amount of time together for most of the relationship, especially the last 6 months.   It was definitely more turbulent when we were spending more time together at the beginning of the relationship.  It was also during that time period when she displayed the BPD characteristics most clearly but it was also a time when her life in general was extremely turbulent and uncertain.   She did stabilize after a while and the "episodes" that had been occurring on a fairly regular basis in the beginning stopped for the most part.  I really don't know why they did, perhaps because I was in the "safe" zone as a result of my distancing; not too close, not too far.  It is also possible she felt more stable in her life in general.

If there was a clear cause and effect here ... .more consistent behavioral patterns ... then I could be more confident in believing that letting her go is the right thing to do for me.  I have read so many horror stories on this forum and I find myself saying my ex was nothing like this.  This leaves me to wonder if it was not something I was doing that triggered her hurtful behavior or if it had nothing to do with me and this is just who she is.   Perhaps it is a little of both.  I can't help but feel like I failed her and myself and this is something I need to come to terms with if I am to move forward.

Conflicted and confused my mind is and it has led me to the room with a thousand doors.

[Jazzy]

C . Stein.

I can understand what you are going through right now being in the same boat myself.There is a constant battle between the heart and the mind. While you still love her deeply and are willing to forgive and forget  to have her back in your life, your mind is cautious,warning you that you will be exposing yourself to more pain .IF you have reached a point where you are  very confident that  a cold shoulder/negative answer from her will not[ bring on  fresh pain , I would say give it a shot.I wish I could do the same myself , but I KNOW that my ex is still in the honeymoon stage with my replacement and will either ignore my texts/ call or will just lash out at me. He will not leave my replacement .I am still in a very fragile state and while all I  think about  is being back with him , I know it is just not going to happen. Ever.His rejection will just hurt me even more and right now I  just cannot take on any more pain than what I am going through.I would collapse.

So in my opinion you have nothing to lose. Good Luck.

[C.Stein]

C . Stein.

I can understand what you are going through right now being in the same boat myself.There is a constant battle between the heart and the mind. While you still love her deeply and are willing to forgive and forget  to have her back in your life, your mind is cautious,warning you that you will be exposing yourself to more pain .IF you have reached a point where you are  very confident that  a cold shoulder/negative answer from her will not[ bring on  fresh pain , I would say give it a shot.I wish I could do the same myself , but I KNOW that my ex is still in the honeymoon stage with my replacement and will either ignore my texts/ call or will just lash out at me. He will not leave my replacement .I am still in a very fragile state and while all I  think about  is being back with him , I know it is just not going to happen. Ever.His rejection will just hurt me even more and right now I  just cannot take on any more pain than what I am going through.I would collapse.

So in my opinion you have nothing to lose. Good Luck.

The battle between the heart and mind ... .yes indeed.  My heart very much wants to be with her, my mind questions if she can effectively control the damaging parts of her personality.   It it very unlikely she will respond to the email and I am more or less OK with that, at least I tried.

The biggest problem I am having right now is I need to be 100% sure that I mean what I wrote in the letter and I'm not 100%.  This is mostly because I have serious doubts she is capable of doing her part to repair the damage and to stop the damaging behavior.  It feels like I would be taking a huge gamble with her and my life right now is relatively stable (more or less) outside of losing her.   Going down this road with her and getting a place together with her would introduce a lot of instability, at least initially, and I am getting too old to play that game again for something that "might" work out.  I understand there are no guarantees for anything in life (except death and taxes), but some things carry a higher risk factor than others.   I need to determine what the risk factor is here before I can be 100% sure I am willing to accept the risk.  

If she really has moved on to another guy as quickly as I suspect she did then there is no coming/going back.  This would demonstrate to me how little she values me and what we had together and I simply can't allow myself to be with someone like that.  Then there is the whole physical and emotional intimacy issue with another man that admittedly rips me apart inside.  I can't even think of being with another woman right now without feeling like I am cheating on her.

Thing is, if she hadn't repeatedly hurt me we might already be living together.  I guess that is the difference between her nurturing our love and sabotaging it.

I can deal with the lack of respect, caring, empathy and compassion.  I know these can be worked on with a high chance of success just by me interacting with her differently.   The lying, possible cheating and running though ... .these are HUGE issues and there is nothing I can really do about them.  There is no management tactic I know of that can help with these issues.  These are issues only she can manage.  Of course I could be always on the lookout for a lie and point them out when I see them, which might help, but how many might get by me and how damaging would they be?   She was very good at lying to my face during the long play deception and she is confident in her ability to successfully lie without being caught.  I think at times she is not even aware she is doing it.

When she engaged in the month long deception she didn't feel she had done anything wrong, even though it involved numerous blatant lies to me in person/text/phone.  I thought after we initially talked about it she realized how wrong it was but when she dumped me 6 months later she said she didn't do anything wrong.  She had convinced herself of this in spite of having already admitting what she had done was wrong.  I then painted a picture to put her in my shoes and later after we got back together she said she finally understood what she did was wrong ... .but did she or was she just saying what I wanted to hear like before?

So either her initial admission was insincere or she had managed to convince herself over the next six months she didn't do anything wrong.  This would likely mean she also had come to believe that my withdrawal was completely unjustified, that I had deceived her about who I really am and this withdrawn, depressed and distant person I had become is who I really am.  I do have reason to believe this is what she thinks now.

This would also give her sufficient justification (in her eyes) to have an emotional affair and not try to fix things with me during those last 6 months.  From her point of view why would she need to fix anything if she did nothing wrong.  For her it was my responsibility to fix myself and get over it without any effort on her part.

This is one of the reasons I feel some guilt and remorse here because I should have communicated to  her my needs and feelings and I didn't.  I wanted her to show me she could do it on her own ... .but she couldn't and I should have seen that and done something about it from my end.

So these are HUGE issues that really scare me when I think of marriage and children with her.  They have pretty much right from the beginning and now even more.  At this point I question my ability to give her the benefit of the doubt and a chance while at the same time keeping this fear in check so it doesn't eat me alive like it did before.  So while I do truly believe we can potentially develop something beautiful and sustainable together there is the chance that these three big issues will blow it all apart ... .again.  

[patientandclear]

CS--I pretty much agree with Jazzy above. In answer to your question about how can one reach the door of acceptance and walk through it -- ironically, I could not until I tried every way and every path I could think of to make things work for us. I needed to know. I needed not to wonder if I had just tried again ... .I needed to know I wasn't missing something. If you have the degree of doubt you're expressing here, I'm not sure that withdrawal, NC etc are going to resolve those doubts. Sometimes the only way to stop doing something is to keep on till you actually no longer want to.

[Should I stay or...]

The biggest problem I am having right now is I need to be 100% sure that I mean what I wrote in the letter and I'm not 100%.  This is mostly because I have serious doubts she is capable of doing her part to repair the damage and to stop the damaging behavior.  It feels like I would be taking a huge gamble with her and my life right now is relatively stable (more or less) outside of losing her.   Going down this road with her and getting a place together with her would introduce a lot of instability, at least initially, and I am getting too old to play that game again for something that "might" work out.  I understand there are no guarantees for anything in life (except death and taxes), but some things carry a higher risk factor than others.   I need to determine what the risk factor is here before I can be 100% sure I am willing to accept the risk.

Hi C. Stein,

Please don't contact her if you want her back; shut that 1000th door!

Let her open that door if that's what you'd like to happen? I'm speaking, as most here have, from personal experiences.

The door will open, if you have any chances of it doing so, by not knocking! Remember the door will only open in one direction. Metaphorically, the door is shut tight. On your side of the door there's no knob and on her side of the door is the knob. She's the only one to allow you access into her room if she doesn't hear you stirring about on the other side. What you have in your favor is to remain cool, calm and collective. Become C. Stein again! Remodel your room while you wait.

You speak in percentages in the above paragraph, what's do you think the percentage would be of her responding to you if you reach out to her? We all know the answer having been through this 1000 times before.

[patientandclear]

We cross-posted. Having read your last post (I think)--you and I seem very similarly situated, in that some of the behaviors are manageable, but it feels like there it would be very tough to come back from certain coping strategies they use, especially moving on to another person. I hung in there with my ex twice until he twice got involved with someone else. Both times he concealed it from me and if anything, intensified his connection with me during those new r/ships. I could tell myself a story about how special our thing was/is, but I came to feel that was self-deception, or at least, I had no way of knowing for sure. I was pretty sure the other women whose hearts he smashed both times also felt their thing was very special. He excels at creating that feeling. Anyway, the running away and the engagement with others is in a different bucket for me than the other behaviors that I could pretty readily deal with.

[C.Stein]

Sometimes the only way to stop doing something is to keep on till you actually no longer want to.

Funny you say this because I believe that was how I was feeling at the end when she sent me the last two texts.  The last one I never replied to.  I'm not entirely sure why, but perhaps it was because I was just tired of being the "bad" guy.  I really don't know, it is hard for me to reconnect to my feelings from that period of time.

Please don't contact her if you want her back; shut that 1000th door!

Let her open that door if that's what you'd like to happen? I'm speaking, as most here have, from personal experiences.

The door will open, if you have any chances of it doing so, by not knocking! Remember the door will only open in one direction. Metaphorically, the door is shut tight. On your side of the door there's no knob and on her side of the door is the knob. She's the only one to allow you access into her room if she doesn't hear you stirring about on the other side. What you have in your favor is to remain cool, calm and collective. Become C. Stein again! Remodel your room while you wait.

I do agree to some extent that she is the one who really needs to reach out here given she is the one who ended it.  That said, I know her well enough to know she will not reach out even if she wants to.  The reaching out will have to come from me.  If she has read the two long emails I have sent her over the past two months she has every reason to believe there is no chance of reconciliation with me.

You speak in percentages in the above paragraph, what's do you think the percentage would be of her responding to you if you reach out to her? We all know the answer having been through this 1000 times before.

Based on what I have seen to date post discard ... .1-5%.  I really don't expect a reply back ... .but there is the small chance that she might not be in a relationship and has engaged in some self-reflection and realized she made a mistake.  Highly doubtful that this occurred but there is a small chance.  

[Should I stay or...]

CS,

Would this be your first recycle if it were to happen? Or have you had severals?

[C.Stein]

We cross-posted. Having read your last post (I think)--you and I seem very similarly situated, in that some of the behaviors are manageable, but it feels like there it would be very tough to come back from certain coping strategies they use, especially moving on to another person. I hung in there with my ex twice until he twice got involved with someone else. Both times he concealed it from me and if anything, intensified his connection with me during those new r/ships. I could tell myself a story about how special our thing was/is, but I came to feel that was self-deception, or at least, I had no way of knowing for sure. I was pretty sure the other women whose hearts he smashed both times also felt their thing was very special. He excels at creating that feeling. Anyway, the running away and the engagement with others is in a different bucket for me than the other behaviors that I could pretty readily deal with.

Yes, I do believe the lying and running are coping strategies, either with her own internal issues or with issues she believes are present in the relationship, regardless of their merit.  

There was a time in my life when I have "put up with" GF's running to other men then coming back to me.  I believe those days are over for me.   The love and bond I shared with her are sacred to me and I place an enormous amount of value on that.    If she did have an emotional affair and moved on as quickly as I suspect, then this only tells me I have little to no value to her.  Twenty years ago I probably wouldn't have a problem with that but now I do, especially after letting her deeper into my heart than I have anyone in my past.

CS,

Would this be your first recycle if it were to happen? Or have you had severals?

This would be the fourth.  The first ended the next morning, the second ended in a couple of days I think, this third one it has been ~ 4 months with almost no contact from her other than for when we arranged to exchange some things and "say goodbye".

[Should I stay or...]

Twenty years ago I probably wouldn't have a problem with that but now I do, especially after letting her deeper into my heart than I have anyone in my past.

Hi C;

Maybe this speaks to the heart of the matter with your honesty above; you are now more vulnerable then you were twenty years ago?

That being said, don't contact her, there's nothing to gain. Your percentages in our previous dialogue tells me that she possibly wouldn't even read your correspondence? And if she did, it would most likely read to her like... .Blah blah blah, I told him it's over already, why is he smothering me. Writing to her now says more about you wanting to be heard then her wanting you back. Keep your self esteem. Maintain your dignity.

For me, maintaining NC is a self love exercise. Also it places a halt to the push pull psycho-dynamics  that they unknowingly create to avoid our engulfment. Let her go. Nothing you can say now will make her return, she will return on her own if that's what she wants. Set yourself free, we are here to give you strength don't let her take it away.

[C.Stein]

This is the letter I sent a week after she sent the only email she has sent since the discard informing me she was in a new relationship and to stop texting/calling.   The email she sent me was in response to a text I had sent her the day before about her website being offline and I said I missed her.   I got no reply as usual.  She has no reason to believe there is any chance of reconciliation after this letter.  I don't regret sending it either.  She needed to hear the truth, but it also means I will have to reach out to her if reconciliation is ever going to be an option.



This is to be my last communication to you.

You may never read it but this is what I need to let you go forever.  I write this with a great sadness in my heart.

I am a good man who gave you his heart and soul, completely and fully.  I loved you essentially unconditionally and wanted nothing more from you than that same type of love.  For you to stand with me as my equal.  This is all I wanted from you, nothing more, nothing less.  I didn't deserve to be treated the way you treated me.

Remember who I was in the beginning ... .I am a mere shadow of that man now. Over the course of our relationship I allowed my self-confidence, self-respect, self-worth and self-esteem to be severely compromise.  I let you push my buttons and I behaved in a manner that is uncharacteristic of me.  I allowed you to keep me in a near constant state of fear, doubt, guilt and anxiety and it has taken its toll on me physically, mentally, emotionally and professionally.  I sacrificed parts of ME in loving you and I allowed myself to become someone I am not.  I know I have weaknesses, things I need to work on within myself, I am by no means perfect and never will be.  We all have parts within ourselves that can use improvement and I know I made mistakes during our relationship for which I am truly sorry.  I take full responsibility for those mistakes with no excuses.

The withdrawn and hurt man I was this year, the man you insensitively said you weren't in love with, was the man YOU created, or maybe more appropriately, I allowed YOU to create.  This is something I don't think you will ever understand or accept.  To be perfectly honest, I did believe it was something we could have fixed together.

The day you came out to the park after talking with your housemate about how badly you had treated me was the turning point.  That was your opportunity to make a positive self-actualizing change within yourself and take a huge step forward towards healing the damage you had done to me and our relationship. Instead you chose to run.

I believe you gave up on us, me and yourself that day because it was too painful for you to face your own guilt and shame for things (known and unknown) that you had done.  You wouldn't/couldn't fix what YOU had broken because it would have required you to look into yourself and hold yourself personally accountable for the damage you had done.  So instead you ran to another man and left me to drown in my pain until you finally discarded me.  This is apparently what love means to you.

It has now become quite apparent you were at the very least having an emotional affair while we were still together.  I asked you about it when you slipped up talking about the movie and got nothing but lies.  It appeared your housemate knew you were lying given how uncomfortable she was acting.  Too many other little things before and after that night support this conclusion.  I now realize in a round about way you virtually told me you were having an affair on the way to the lake.

I can't even begin to tell you how devastated and heart broken I am with this realization.  Not only had you given up on me and our dream, but more importantly you gave up on yourself.  In the end you have become a complete stranger to me.

I don't know what is worse, emotional or physical infidelity.  I think most will view emotional infidelity as being much much worse.  You betrayed me on the most intimate level.  You were getting emotionally close to another man while ignoring me, the supposed love of your life.  You essentially started another relationship while you were still with me, again thinking only of yourself and nothing of the man you had wanted to build a family with.  How could you have possibly justified this in your mind!

I will never know but you may have gotten physically close to him as well, and honestly, I wouldn't be that surprised if you did.  You redefine the meaning of things and shift boundaries to suit your needs ... .like infidelity (as long as it doesn't go this far ... .).  This all happened long before you discarded me which makes it all the more painful.

I feel so emotionally violated, dirty and used ... .it is THE FINAL CUT.

Instead of taking responsibility for your actions and help repair the damage you had caused you went looking for someone new to idealize, someone to make you feel good about yourself again.  You couldn't face the pain you had caused me and you certainly couldn't face your own pain, shame and guilt, so you found another man to make you feel better about yourself.  This of course can't and won't last because it is an illusion.  It may be months or years but it will fail because it is not real.  It is a fresh coat of paint on rotting wood and eventually it will chip and peal off.

I really do want you to be happy, to find REAL happiness within yourself and by extension in a relationship, but this is a vicious cycle that has repeated over and over again throughout your life and will continue to repeat.  No matter how hard you try to change the outcome it will always end the same because you are unwilling and/or incapable of seeing beyond your own needs.  You continue to look outward for love and happiness when you should be striving to find that within yourself first.  You keep ignoring and avoiding the rotting wood and as a result you destroy everything that is good in your life.  You can run away from me but you can never run away from yourself.

I am certain you are telling yourself ... ."this time it will be different, this time I will be better".  You told yourself the same thing with me and you had a REAL chance to be happy and truly loved with me.  It won't be different this time, or the next one, or the next one because you are comfortable with who you are and you will always find something or someone to take the blame for all your mistakes, failures, problems, behavior and actions.  I would like to believe you can learn from the mistakes you made in our relationship, but the only lessons you seem to learn are the wrong ones.  You are your own worst enemy.

It wouldn't have made a difference if we were married either, even if you think that piece of paper magically makes you a trustworthy person (according to you).  This is just who you are and you are clearly comfortable remaining this way. You have discarded me and no longer want contact because it is an incredibly painful reminder of who you really are and what you destroyed.  When you look at me now all you see is your own guilt and shame for what you did to me and our relationship.  Now I have been painted the blackest of blacks so you can avoid personal culpability and what is mostly self-inflicted pain.  Sadly, no matter how deep you bury it or try to hide from it in a new relationship, it is still there and it will eventually eat you alive.

The saddest thing of all is I know you loved me but I don't think you were ever IN LOVE with ME, even though I am sure at one point it felt that way to you. You only loved the needs I fulfilled for you and the dream I shared with you, not really ME.  Your "love" is conditional on your personal needs being met, and that is not true love at all.

Problem here is almost all of those personal needs can only be fulfilled by YOU not someone else.  You will never be able to truly love someone or be "in love" or find true happiness until you can love yourself unconditionally.  I sincerely hope someday you understand this.

Just to be clear, you don't NEED a family or child ... .you should WANT a family and child.  There is a HUGE difference between the two and until you can understand that difference you are not ready for a family or a child.

So in the end I guess I was just another fresh coat of paint for you, no different than any other man you have been involved with, past or present.  I believe this is why it was so easy for you to discard me and your feelings for me.  You never had any real or true love for ME ... .and that hurts more than you will ever know.


I tried to give you the best of myself and to put your feelings and needs ahead of my own, even when it came at a high emotional cost to me.  You never did see or understand just how much I sacrificed for you emotionally, you just expected me to do it and I willingly obliged.  I was constantly walking around on egg shells afraid to talk about my feelings with you because I didn't want to send you into one of your downward tailspins.  Those tailspins happened every time I talked to you about my feelings, so in order to keep you stable I bottled them up.  This was the wrong thing to do (and I did it a lot) and it did damage our relationship.

I repeatedly allowed you to cross my personal boundaries which compromised my personal self.  I was a fool in love and you took advantage of that and of me. I had asked you on numerous occasions to respect those boundaries (and me) but you continued to put your own needs above all else.  I allowed you to do that ... .this is MY fault!  I shouldn't have let you cross my boundaries and by doing so I enabled your hurtful behavior and allowed myself to be continuously hurt.

Your go to excuse for almost all the hurtful behavior ... ."you met me at the worst time" ... . is exactly that, an excuse.  It was your way to avoid taking responsibility for your hurtful actions and behavior ... .right up to the day we said goodbye.  There is NO excuse for this, regardless of what happened in your past.  Your past does not make you ineligible to conduct a loving relationship with respect and integrity.  You are an adult and you freely chose to do the things you did that hurt me.  Even if your behavior is impacted by BPD, there is no way you couldn't have seen on some level how much you were hurting me.

Perhaps the hardest thing for me to accept, given recent revelation, is the knowledge that you are not a honest and trustworthy person, at least when it comes to relationships.  This really is the biggest heart break of all.  I gave you my trust freely ... .I truly believed in my mind and heart that you were trustworthy ... .I believed in you and in what you told me right up to the end.  I gave you every benefit of the doubt ... .should I have?  Now I am left wondering if there was ever any honesty from you during our relationship ... .was there anything real in our relationship?

It breaks my heart that you could have had such a fundamental lack of love, respect and caring for me.  I thought we shared a special and unique once in a life time love and bond.  I believed you at least loved and respected me enough to be honest and faithful even when things got difficult in our relationship. How could I have been so wrong about you ... .so blind?  I ended up being just another disposable man ... .a scapegoat.

It wasn't all bad though.  There were many times when you showed me a great deal of love, respect and caring, but the times when it was most important you didn't ... .you couldn't ... .you wouldn't.  At least you were courteous after the discard so I thank you for that, even if you have been cold hearted and completely void of any feeling, empathy, compassion or remorse.



You know what the really messed up thing is ... .I still love you.  There are some truly wonderful and amazing parts of you that I deeply love and miss dearly.  I wish I could have spent more time with that woman ... .I wanted to spent the rest of my life with that woman.

I have been taking a long and hard look at myself this past month and I know one thing with certainty ... .I wanted to and would have built a family with you.  I truly wanted to make our dream a reality.  Now you have turned your back on me, never to look back, taking OUR dream with you.

As your friend I tried to help you bring out the best in yourself and as your partner I was willing to accept and love the whole you ... .good and bad.  This is what I believe to be true love, but you threw that away.  One day, when you are once again filled with unbearable sadness and despair, you will remember this and perhaps finally understand what you lost.  :)on't remember the distant hurt me that you created, remember the man I was when you met me because that is who I am at my core.

I am very sorry I had restrictions on my time and activities during our relationship, it wasn't fair to you.  I also apologize again for my withdrawal this year.  Good reasons or not it was not the right thing to do and I regret not communicating my needs to you and for shutting you out.  I know it was hard on you and it hurt you and I am sincerely sorry.

I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart for sharing with me the most passionate and deepest emotional bond and love that I have ever experienced in my life.  I am truly grateful to you for this and I will cherish that memory until the day I die.

I also thank you for your much valued friendship.  It is one of the things I will miss the most.

It deeply saddens me knowing what you must endure in your own mind every day.

I do hope you can forgive yourself for what has past and is yet to come, and that you can find some peace in your chaotic mind.  I truly hope you can one day experience some measure of real happiness and love.

I wish you success in your career goals and hope you find some stability in your life with regard to that.  This was always very important to me because it was very important to you.  You will never know how much I sacrificed emotionally for you in this regard.  I am profoundly sad I will not be there when you complete the journey we started together.  If you do complete the program successfully then I extend my congratulations to you.  This is a big step towards believing in yourself and I am extremely proud of you for your accomplishment.

Lastly, I forgive you.


Now it is time for me to think of myself, to get back what I lost to you.  It will be a long and hard journey but I will emerge a stronger and better man at the end of it.

So I give you one final gift of love ... .your freedom from me forever.

As much as it breaks my heart and brings me unfathomable sorrow to say this ... .

you are dead to me now.

You are forever my one and only soulmate.  You will always have a special place in my heart and mind.

Goodbye my love.

[Should I stay or...]

I don't regret sending it either.  She needed to hear the truth, but it also means I will have to reach out to her if reconciliation is ever going to be an option.

Hi C. Stein;

I would have regretted sending this letter if today I wanted her back.

[C.Stein]

Hi C. Stein;

I would have regretted sending this letter if today I wanted her back.

Yes, it does slam the door shut and at the time I felt the door was already closed by her, which it is if she really is in a new relationship.  I took the email she sent at face value, but then she is more than capable of stretching the truth or just outright lying to get something she wants.  Harsh truth, yes, but these are things she needs to come to terms with for her own personal growth.  You can't make positive change if you are unaware of where the change needs to occur.

Since then I have looked at the things that transpired when we said goodbye and given some minor indications have come to have a sliver of hope that she might really not be in a new relationship.  Then I started to wonder if maybe we could work things out, that there wasn't too much water under the bridge.

I am curious, why would you regret sending it?

[C.Stein]

This is the letter I have drafted asking her to consider the possibility of working things out.



I am writing this under the assumption that you did not have an emotional affair and you are not in a new relationship.  I know I said I would not communicate with you again but I can't seem to find a way to let you go from my heart. Please spare a little bit of your time to read this with an open mind.

I have given you every reason to believe that I am OK with our relationship ending but I am not and never was, not by a long shot.  I cannot find a way to stop loving you or wanting to spend the rest of my life with you, and yes, that includes building a family with you.

I realize you feel I don't trust you anymore and this is understandable given what I said.  Has my trust in you been compromised ... .absolutely, but it CAN be repaired.  I can rebuild my trust in you but it will take effort on both our parts.  This is not something I can do alone nor should I have to.

I have said some things in anger that were wrong and hurtful.  These things I said were not necessarily a reflection of my true thoughts and beliefs.  These things came from my anger and pain, not my heart and mind.  In some cases I don't think I ever talked to you about my real thoughts and feelings, those that come from a place of calm and rational thought.  This was my failing and it left you believing in things that were not true.

I know you feel I have wasted 2 years of your life, that I deceived you.  S, I have never lied to or deceived you, nor have I ever mislead you in any way.  My love for you is real and true and when I said I was willing to build a family with you I meant it will all my heart and mind.

Please understand for almost the entire year I have been experiencing intermittent heart attack symptoms as a result of the c-PTSD/anxiety/stress I was feeling.  This is why I was questioning my health, longevity and my future fatherhood.  I am sorry I was not more open with you about that and my other fears I was experiencing with regard to you, our relationship and our future family.  I wish you could have walked a mile in my shoes so you could understand what I was going through.

I can't bring myself to throw away the love I found with you or a 2 year relationship based solely on the fact we never sat down and had a real conversation about our feelings and needs, both personally and in the relationship.  Communication is critical in a relationship and we weren't communicating with each other.

In order for me to feel secure building a family with you I need to feel secure in our relationship and know that we can provide a healthy and loving home for our child, not one filled with emotional turmoil.  I need you to treat me with honesty, respect and caring.  I need your empathy and compassion when I am hurting.  I need to know you will not run away when things get tough.  I need stability, permanence and constancy with you.  I need you to be there for me just as much as you need me to be there for you.  These are not unreasonable needs and I know you want these very same things for yourself.  Is it wrong of me to want these things?

I am still the person you met; that affectionate, attentive, caring, giving, loving, passionate man you fell in love with.  I failed you and myself when I distanced myself from you and allowed my emotional pain to turn me into someone I am not.  I let my emotional pain choose the path I took ... .the one that distanced me from you, it was not intentional.  As a consequence many of those great qualities that I love about myself got bottled up.  This doesn't mean I am not still that person but rather that person got suppressed because of the emotional pain and fear I was experiencing.

In spite of my concerns about upsetting you or distracting you from what you needed to accomplish with school I should have discussed my feelings and fears with you.  I bottled up my emotional pain and feelings to help keep you stable and this was wrong.  I did this throughout our entire relationship and I realize now how damaging that was.  I should have just talked about my feelings when I needed to.  I can't walk on egg shells around you, it is not fair to you or me.

S, I am not a waste of time.  Our love and our dream are not a waste of time.  Our potential future together is not a waste of time.  When things were good between us they were amazing and I'm not talking about physical intimacy, which was always amazing.  We bonded and connected on a very deep level and are very compatible with each other in many different ways.  It is not right for us to throw this away or throw away a two year relationship without even trying to work things out.  We never even really talked about it let alone try.

Can you consider allowing yourself the opportunity and time to work with me and repair the damage that was done to our relationship this year?  I really feel and believe we can have a future and family together.  We both need to work together to build a strong and stable relationship for a family to grow on.  Most importantly we both need to work on ourselves to be the best we can be in a partnership and marriage.  We both need this to achieve the shared happiness that can come from raising a family together.

So please consider what we have already been through, the good parts of our relationship, the love and bond we shared.  Let us learn from the mistakes, put behind all the pain and resentment and work on moving forward together on the same path not different ones.

[Conundrum]

She needed to hear the truth, but it also means I will have to reach out to her if reconciliation is ever going to be an option.

Post-dissolution relational truths manifest themselves as subjective perceptions resembling a magic mirror in which we question who was the fairest partner of them all.

Though, that scorecard of blame and shame always pushes a disordered person away.

Relationships are living breathing entities, best enjoyed in the moment. And those moments may be shaped into fulfilling our desire. But to lament, the treatment within volitional accords in which we were active participants and not slumbering in a dream-state, subject to alleged poisoned potions, means facing core truths with raw authenticity. With all the claims of obfuscation, manipulation and relational charades, pwBPD remain brutally candid in pursuing their needs, albeit though often maladaptive. However, what prevents us from shaping our relationships thereby ensuring that our needs are met too. And more often than not they willingly accede, because indeed they understand the desperation attached to need better than most. The dialectical tension present involved with loving a disordered person does not adhere to congruent relational shapes. Refracted patterns of color and light swirling within a kaleidoscope beings. Can wind or water, hills and valleys, colors and shades, be shamed. It is neither black nor white, as all things change.

If you want her back--your emails are way too long and angstee. Short and to the point works better w pwBPD. Tell her she's (insert characteristic funny, hot etc.) and want to f*ck her. Be her friend, and don't shame.

[Should I stay or...]

Hi C,

I know you might have been well intended at the time. But, knowing this disease as you do now being on the site, would you have sent this today?

I know you say no regrets, but I believe you do have regret, how could you not? You still love her!

Why wouldn't I have sent this letter well, it contains blame and shaming and if she is a true BP then she already has those unseen qualities tattooed well in her brain. Pointing them out would possibly be unrecoverable, especially, in a letter and not in a face to face discussion. If I also stated in a letter; "You're dead to me" to my ex, I would be dead to her, black.

[C.Stein]

Post-dissolution relational truths manifest themselves as subjective perceptions resembling a magic mirror in which we question who was the fairest partner of them all.

Though, that scorecard of blame and shame always pushes a disordered person away.

This is likely true.  It wasn't intended as a score card though, however I can see how it would be construed as such.

If you want her back--your emails are way too long and angstee. Short and to the point works better w pwBPD. Tell her she's (insert characteristic funny, hot etc.) and want to f*ck her. Be her friend, and don't shame.

The email that I have not sent I tried not to shame or blame her for anything.  I have already reduced the reconciliation email by 50% at least.  If I don't get a reply back I won't be contacting her again so I am unsure how to make it shorter and still express my feelings.

Worth noting, telling her that kind of stuff (funny, hot, etc... .) would be seen as shallow and superficial by her and would be immediately dismissed as such.  She definitely likes to hear that stuff as it appeals to her vanity, but she is far too intelligent to fall for those types of tactics at this point even if her emotional intelligence is low.  That would have worked 10 years ago though.  Probably wouldn't hurt to throw in some praise.  

At this point in her life she yearns for connection, intimacy, family, love.  She has stated on more than one occasion that she is tired of sex for the sake of sex and shallow relationships.   Of course, she could have just been saying that to direct my thoughts in the direction she wanted, but I honestly don't think she is that devious.

I do understand brevity is best and this would be best done in person.  I only have email as an option though and I tried to touch on all the main issues that are most likely keeping her from considering reconciliation, assuming she isn't in a new relationship.

Any suggestions on how to express myself with brevity without losing the "meat"?

[Should I stay or...]

This is the letter I have drafted asking her to consider the possibility of working things out.



I am writing this under the assumption that you did not have an emotional affair and you are not in a new relationship.  I know I said I would not communicate with you again but I can't seem to find a way to let you go from my heart. Please spare a little bit of your time to read this with an open mind.

I have given you every reason to believe that I am OK with our relationship ending but I am not and never was, not by a long shot.  I cannot find a way to stop loving you or wanting to spend the rest of my life with you, and yes, that includes building a family with you.

I realize you feel I don't trust you anymore and this is understandable given what I said.  Has my trust in you been compromised ... .absolutely, but it CAN be repaired.  I can rebuild my trust in you but it will take effort on both our parts.  This is not something I can do alone nor should I have to.

I have said some things in anger that were wrong and hurtful.  These things I said were not necessarily a reflection of my true thoughts and beliefs.  These things came from my anger and pain, not my heart and mind.  In some cases I don't think I ever talked to you about my real thoughts and feelings, those that come from a place of calm and rational thought.  This was my failing and it left you believing in things that were not true.

I know you feel I have wasted 2 years of your life, that I deceived you.  S, I have never lied to or deceived you, nor have I ever mislead you in any way.  My love for you is real and true and when I said I was willing to build a family with you I meant it will all my heart and mind.

Please understand for almost the entire year I have been experiencing intermittent heart attack symptoms as a result of the c-PTSD/anxiety/stress I was feeling.  This is why I was questioning my health, longevity and my future fatherhood.  I am sorry I was not more open with you about that and my other fears I was experiencing with regard to you, our relationship and our future family.  I wish you could have walked a mile in my shoes so you could understand what I was going through.

I can't bring myself to throw away the love I found with you or a 2 year relationship based solely on the fact we never sat down and had a real conversation about our feelings and needs, both personally and in the relationship.  Communication is critical in a relationship and we weren't communicating with each other.

In order for me to feel secure building a family with you I need to feel secure in our relationship and know that we can provide a healthy and loving home for our child, not one filled with emotional turmoil.  I need you to treat me with honesty, respect and caring.  I need your empathy and compassion when I am hurting.  I need to know you will not run away when things get tough.  I need stability, permanence and constancy with you.  I need you to be there for me just as much as you need me to be there for you.  These are not unreasonable needs and I know you want these very same things for yourself.  Is it wrong of me to want these things?

I am still the person you met; that affectionate, attentive, caring, giving, loving, passionate man you fell in love with.  I failed you and myself when I distanced myself from you and allowed my emotional pain to turn me into someone I am not.  I let my emotional pain choose the path I took ... .the one that distanced me from you, it was not intentional.  As a consequence many of those great qualities that I love about myself got bottled up.  This doesn't mean I am not still that person but rather that person got suppressed because of the emotional pain and fear I was experiencing.

In spite of my concerns about upsetting you or distracting you from what you needed to accomplish with school I should have discussed my feelings and fears with you.  I bottled up my emotional pain and feelings to help keep you stable and this was wrong.  I did this throughout our entire relationship and I realize now how damaging that was.  I should have just talked about my feelings when I needed to.  I can't walk on egg shells around you, it is not fair to you or me.

S, I am not a waste of time.  Our love and our dream are not a waste of time.  Our potential future together is not a waste of time.  When things were good between us they were amazing and I'm not talking about physical intimacy, which was always amazing.  We bonded and connected on a very deep level and are very compatible with each other in many different ways.  It is not right for us to throw this away or throw away a two year relationship without even trying to work things out.  We never even really talked about it let alone try.

Can you consider allowing yourself the opportunity and time to work with me and repair the damage that was done to our relationship this year?  I really feel and believe we can have a future and family together.  We both need to work together to build a strong and stable relationship for a family to grow on.  Most importantly we both need to work on ourselves to be the best we can be in a partnership and marriage.  We both need this to achieve the shared happiness that can come from raising a family together.

So please consider what we have already been through, the good parts of our relationship, the love and bond we shared.  Let us learn from the mistakes, put behind all the pain and resentment and work on moving forward together on the same path not different ones.

C. Stein,

You know how I feel about reaching out during NC... .that being said, I wouldn't suggest sending this reconciliation. If you do use this text I would consider taking out the I's and replace them with us, we and our as you did in your last paragraph. More inclusive.

Should

[C.Stein]

Hi C,

I know you might have been well intended at the time. But, knowing this disease as you do now being on the site, would you have sent this today?

I know you say no regrets, but I believe you do have regret, how could you not? You still love her!

Why wouldn't I have sent this letter well, it contains blame and shaming and if she is a true BP then she already has those unseen qualities tattooed well in her brain. Pointing them out would possibly be unrecoverable, especially, in a letter and not in a face to face discussion. If I also stated in a letter; "You're dead to me" to my ex, I would be dead to her, black.

Yes, I see what you are saying.  She already has enough shame to last a life time, assuming she believes she has reason to feel shame to begin with with regard to what happened this year.   She has always been very good at lying to herself.   If she read it at all chances are better than not she only skimmed it. 

I sent a similar email to her in the beginning of our relationship discussing some red flags that I had observed.  That email was considerably less harsh but similar in content, addressing things about her character/behavior that were concerning me.  That email was received well by her and we had what I thought was a productive conversation about it at the time.  She is capable of self-reflection and she does value honesty from others, even when it is difficult to hear.  That said, she can get down on herself when someone points out flaws in her character, but then who doesn't. 

It was a metaphorical "dead" given if she did have an emotional affair then I really don't know who she is anymore and the person I fell in love with is essentially dead to me.

[C.Stein]

C. Stein,

You know how I feel about reaching out during NC... .that being said, I wouldn't suggest sending this reconciliation. If you do use this text I would consider taking out the I's and replace them with us, we and our as you did in your last paragraph. More inclusive.

So you think it is a bad idea for me to point out my own flaws and mistakes that I made in the relationship?  I would think that would be received well by her but maybe not?  I tried to make this email the opposite of the last one, where I focused mostly on my shortcomings and mistakes and not hers.

I might note the four biggest issues she has with me right now are:

1) She has come to believe she won't get the family she wants with me

2) That I see her as a pathological liar.

3) That she has wasted the past two years of her life

4) That I mislead her into believing I am someone other than who I presented myself to her in the beginning.

The last two she has quite likely been encouraged to believe by others.

[Should I stay or...]

C. Stein,

You know how I feel about reaching out during NC... .that being said, I wouldn't suggest sending this reconciliation. If you do use this text I would consider taking out the I's and replace them with us, we and our as you did in your last paragraph. More inclusive.

So you think it is a bad idea for me to point out my own flaws and mistakes that I made in the relationship?  I would think that would be received well by her but maybe not?  I tried to make this email the opposite of the last one, where I focused mostly on my shortcomings and mistakes and not hers.

YESSSSSSSSSSSS it would be a big mistake! This is only a suggestion a possible direction that I think you need head after that first letter... .How about:  I'm sorry for letting you down, please forgive me.

[C.Stein]

YESSSSSSSSSSSS it would be a big mistake! This is only a suggestion a possible direction that I think you need head after that first letter... .How about:  I'm sorry for letting you down, please forgive me.

Yes, I apologized for letting her down and other things I was responsible for when I said goodbye to her.  It didn't seem to phase her much though. 

Considering the harsh truth email, what would be the best way to mitigate any damage that might have caused?  I will not accept responsibility for her behavior or actions in any way.  She needs to own her mistakes and faults ... .they are not mine to bear.

So far we are at cutting out the parts about what I did wrong and add some heart felt praise of her good qualities and character.

[Joem678]

In my experience, any emotional response from us to the pwBPD just adds fuel to their disorder.  They won't back off, they won't move on with emails, calls, texts or our confronting them face-to-face.   From my understanding, you can only get a true response when they are no longer in crisis. 

[steve195915]

C. Stein,

You know how I feel about reaching out during NC... .that being said, I wouldn't suggest sending this reconciliation. If you do use this text I would consider taking out the I's and replace them with us, we and our as you did in your last paragraph. More inclusive.

So you think it is a bad idea for me to point out my own flaws and mistakes that I made in the relationship?  I would think that would be received well by her but maybe not?  I tried to make this email the opposite of the last one, where I focused mostly on my shortcomings and mistakes and not hers.

YESSSSSSSSSSSS it would be a big mistake! This is only a suggestion a possible direction that I think you need head after that first letter... .How about:  I'm sorry for letting you down, please forgive me.[/quote]
I find simpler is always better, never point out their deficiencies, don't point out yours or give reasons.  Just say that you love her and want a family with her, you're sorry that you let her down, you want to do everything it takes and be the man she desires,  and you love her with all your heart and soul and will be there for her forever.  

[Should I stay or...]

I totally agree with Steve195915

[C.Stein]

From my understanding, you can only get a true response when they are no longer in crisis. 

I would agree with this.  My ex is very high functioning for the most part.  She doesn't dysregulate on a regular basis.

[C.Stein]

Revised draft email.  



I am writing this under the assumption that you are not in a new relationship.  If you will, please spare a moment of your time to read this with an open mind.

You have every reason to believe that I am OK with our relationship ending but I am not and never was, not by a long shot.  I cannot find a way to stop loving you or wanting to spend the rest of my life with you, that includes building a family with you.

Losing the love we found with each other or a two year relationship based solely on the fact we never sat down and had a real conversation about our feelings and needs, both personally and in the relationship doesn't seem right.  Communication is critical in a relationship and we weren't communicating with each other.  We need to feel comfortable communicating with each other about all our feelings and fears, at one point we were and we can again.

Given what has transpired this year we both have trust issues with each other.  We can rebuild our trust in each other but it will take effort on both our parts.  Honesty, trust and respect are important to both of us and is needed for our relationship to be strong and healthy.

You are an intelligent, beautiful, loving, warm, affectionate, passionate and silly woman who I am deeply in love with and want to walk hand in hand through life with.  When things were good between us they were amazing.  We bonded and connected with each other on a depth I had never thought possible.  We are also so very compatible with each other in many different ways. I treasure and cherish you like no other.

Can you consider allowing yourself the opportunity and time to work with me and repair the damage that was done to our relationship this year?  We can have a future and family together.  We need to work together to build a strong and stable relationship for a family to grow on.  Most importantly we both need to work on ourselves to be the best we can be in a partnership and marriage.  We both need this to achieve the shared happiness that can come from building a family together.

So please consider what we have already been through, the good parts of our relationship, the love and bond we shared.  Let us learn from the mistakes, put behind all the pain and resentment and work on moving forward together on the same path not different ones.

[joeramabeme]

Revised draft email... .

C. Stein, well written; very thoughtful and heartfelt.  Are you planning to give this to her or just purging some ideas on paper? 

[Should I stay or...]

Revised draft email. 



I edited your version, just a suggestion, I'm hoping you don't mind... .I've been here before... .

you need to keep it short and conciliatory... .you may want to save this edited version for a face to face setting, I hope you get there... .

my recommendation is to send out a brief contact message like I mentioned before like:

I'm so sorry to have let you down, I wanted a family with you but my own insecurities let us down... .please forgive me.

edited version:

You are an intelligent, beautiful, loving, warm, affectionate, passionate and silly woman who I am deeply in love with and want to walk hand in hand through life with. We bonded and connected with each other on a depth I had never thought possible.  We are also so very compatible with each other in many different ways. I treasure and cherish you like no other.

Can you consider allowing yourself the opportunity and time to work with me and repair the damage that was done to our relationship this year?  We can have a future and family together.

I love you dearly, I'm sorry for all the hurt that I have contributed to out relationship. Please forgive me... .

[C.Stein]

C. Stein, well written; very thoughtful and heartfelt.  Are you planning to give this to her or just purging some ideas on paper?

I am undecided.   I know I will probably feel better if I do send it, response or not.

my recommendation is to send out a brief contact message like I mentioned before like:

I'm so sorry to have let you down, I wanted a family with you but my own insecurities let us down... .please forgive me.

Thank you for your thoughts here.  I believe this message would most certainly be met with silence, mostly because she knows it is not true and would call BS on it and would not feel at all compelled to respond.

She knew right from the start that I was ambivalent with regard to having children, leaning more towards not having.  Now while this may be the case, I also was open to building a family with her if we could build a stable and secure relationship together.  I also told her that in the beginning.  I did let her down in some ways but not directly due to my own insecurities, even though those may have played a role in it.  I am more than willing to accept responsibility for the part I played in damaging our relationship without excuses, I am just not convinced it was my insecurities (implication here is unwarranted) that are to blame.  I felt I kept my insecurities more or less under control.  I will have to ponder this for a moment or two.

edited version:

You are an intelligent, beautiful, loving, warm, affectionate, passionate and silly woman who I am deeply in love with and want to walk hand in hand through life with. We bonded and connected with each other on a depth I had never thought possible.  We are also so very compatible with each other in many different ways. I treasure and cherish you like no other.

Can you consider allowing yourself the opportunity and time to work with me and repair the damage that was done to our relationship this year?  We can have a future and family together.

I love you dearly, I'm sorry for all the hurt that I have contributed to out relationship. Please forgive me... .

I see where you are trying to go here.  The purpose here would be to get a face to face.  My biggest problem is I sometimes will forget what I want to say, which is why I will put it down in email.  This way I can be relatively sure I say what needs to be said.  There are things I should have said when I said goodbye to her that I didn't.  Saying what needs to be said though is not the purpose here ... .correct?

Oh, and I might note that I am not open to reconciliation if she is in a new relationship, regardless of what may or may not happen with them.  If that is the path she choose then she not only closed the door but locked it and threw away the key.

If the message is too short she won't take it seriously, if it is too long she won't really read it.  I need something in between the two with her.

[Should I stay or...]

Hi C,

You know best, but keep your message short and conciliatory... .the last message she remembers from you was hurtful, even if you think it wasn't. Be remorseful, even if you think she is fully to blame, if you want her back, make her feel safe to come back.

And, if you do reach out be prepared for silence, no reply! This will set you back months, that's why I've suggested not too start the clock backwards.

Should

[Joem678]

C stein,

Think about sending it... .   For them, all you are doing is hitting the reset button on NC.  All they will do is read it and their emotions will be appeased. 

So your intentions should be only about yourself and not in anyway how they will react.  What will hurt you more is if they don't respond.   And if they do, your expectation should be a horrible response or push/pull.

Meditate on this.

[Nextinline]

You are sending an emotionally charged letter/email to your ex.

You are hoping that she reads it and processes what you are saying in it in with exactly the same set of emotions that you wrote it with.

You are really hoping for the RC door to be re-opened.

You really need to consider what may be the situation if she does not see it with the same empathy that you had when you wrote it. If she is not on the same page as you she may respond with rage and greater negativity and resentment which will set your recovery back months.

I am only suggesting that you need to weigh up the consequences if your best intentions to open up communication is seen negatively in her eyes and she responds to you in a destructive manner.

I am only suggesting this because I wrote the same letter as you did and the response was so cruel, nasty and just bordering on being evil that it put my recovery back months.

If she wants you then you need to let her reach out to you and then respond in a manner that you feel appropriate.

Your call of course, but it seems a lot of people have gone down this path before and with a BPD... .it just led to more heartache and pain.

[FlyFish]

It's a hard call c stein. There is a lot you have to consider.

I wrote a letter during the second breakup similar to yours and it succeeded in getting her back. But we were back together for only 3 months after that and those were the most up and down of our r/s. It hurt more afterwards.

If you truly love someone though then you will do everything possible to get them or you will regret it. I understand this mentality too.

If you do send it then You need to come to terms with the possibility of any response. Both good and bad. The risk reward margin of this kind of letter is extreme especially if we as nons are still attached. Find piece of mind with any response you may or may not get before you hit send. Easier said than done.

I with you the best no matter what decision.

[Learning Fast]

If she wants you then you need to let her reach out to you and then respond in a manner that you feel appropriate.



C. Stein,

I've followed your story almost from the beginning and it mirrors so many others in that we still keep our exes close to our hearts.  As much as I hate to say this and I know it is hard to hear but I'm with Next and Should on this one.  Next's comment above would represent the healthiest path to follow in my judgement.

I've met with my ex several times since we split back in June.  Although pleasant and conversational, it was very apparent that she had completely emotionally detached from the relationship as I felt more like an acquaintance than a former lover.  Any attempt by me to launch into a reconciliation discussion would have appeared needy and desperate.  I refrained from even coming close to doing so during any of our meetings and am so glad I did.

Earlier in his thread I referred to a comment Skip made to me from one of my previous posts---"She may be with someone else, may be searching for someone else or just might be spending time alone---but whatever she is doing she has decided to do it without you".  Hard to process and swallow but necessary.

Stay strong, C. Stein, and you'll be happy that you did down the road.

LF

[Joem678]

The hard part with no contact is letting go.  Especially, if they leave you all these "loop" holes that make you analyze their behavior.  Another thing is that messes with you is the see-saw battle of 'pushing/pulling' you.  It messes with your mind.  You need to be strong.  I know you hear that and you wonder 'how?'.  There is no answer for this.  You need to talk things out when you have the urge to text her.  That first day will be the hardest.  There will be bumps and temptation but be strong. 

Right now, your communication is pointless to them.  No matter, what your intentions are.

[C.Stein]

And, if you do reach out be prepared for silence, no reply! This will set you back months, that's why I've suggested not too start the clock backwards.

I honestly don't expect a response if I send it.  I will be left at the same spot as I am now, except with one more unanswered email.

Think about sending it... .  For them, all you are doing is hitting the reset button on NC.  All they will do is read it and their emotions will be appeased.  

So your intentions should be only about yourself and not in anyway how they will react.  What will hurt you more is if they don't respond.   And if they do, your expectation should be a horrible response or push/pull.

Meditate on this.

Thanks Joe.  Like I said above, I really am not expecting a reply if I send it.  While a part of me felt there was a sliver of a chance she might consider reconciliation when I said goodbye to her, that she still has feelings for me, there have been more indications that I no longer hold any value to her and she refuses to waste anymore time on me, new relationship or not, because she sees me as a dead end.  She thinks I can't/won't give her a family ... .which means end game for me.

You are sending an emotionally charged letter/email to your ex.

You are hoping that she reads it and processes what you are saying in it in with exactly the same set of emotions that you wrote it with.

You are really hoping for the RC door to be re-opened.

You really need to consider what may be the situation if she does not see it with the same empathy that you had when you wrote it. If she is not on the same page as you she may respond with rage and greater negativity and resentment which will set your recovery back months.

I am only suggesting that you need to weigh up the consequences if your best intentions to open up communication is seen negatively in her eyes and she responds to you in a destructive manner.

I am only suggesting this because I wrote the same letter as you did and the response was so cruel, nasty and just bordering on being evil that it put my recovery back months.

If she wants you then you need to let her reach out to you and then respond in a manner that you feel appropriate.

Your call of course, but it seems a lot of people have gone down this path before and with a BPD... .it just led to more heartache and pain.

I have considered this possibility and a cruel rejection letter is not outside the scope of possibility., but it is unlikely.  That could set me back depending on how cruel it is.   The biggest setback would be to find out she is pregnant and engaged.  If that were true it would crush me, not only because of my feelings for her, but because it would be one of the most reckless and ill-advised things she has ever done in her life.

If she is "done with me" and there is nothing left in her heart for me, especially if she really is in a new relationship, then there will be no reply.   She simply won't waste her time or energy on lashing out.  She wouldn't allow herself to lash out when I said goodbye to her and my "closure" letter was also a relatively hard truth letter that was 3 times longer  than my last letter I sent, just not as harsh.  When I wrote the closure letter I did not know or suspect BPD and I also was unaware of a new relationship even if I was beginning to suspect it.

I know her well enough to know she will not reach out even if she wanted to.  If she will ever reach out to me on her own she needs to feel she won't be rejected, and at this point she has no reason to believe that.

If at one point she did reach out it would be in the distant future and not for reconciliation but because there was something she needed from me.   I truly feel that the window of opportunity with her, if not already gone, will be gone forever when she moves sometime in the next 4 months.   Once again, she doesn't have to move at all.  Moving would be either to be with a new BF or because she thinks it will give her a clean slate, which it won't because she will still be herself.

I wrote a letter during the second breakup similar to yours and it succeeded in getting her back. But we were back together for only 3 months after that and those were the most up and down of our r/s. It hurt more afterwards.

This possibility (bold above) weighs heavy on my mind.  For any reconciliation to work we both would have to completely put behind us all the pain and resentment that got us here.  We both would have to be 100% committed to moving forward with real intent to do the necessary work on ourselves and the relationship to ensure it will continue to move forward.  Anything less than that on either one of our parts will almost certainly result in failure.  It may be a hill too steep for either one of us to climb, but that doesn't necessarily mean the attempt shouldn't be made.

I can certainly believe that in her mind it is far easier for her to walk away at this point then to try and fix the damage.   She may truly believe (convinced herself) there is no hope and if that is the case then it is over, reconciliation or not.  She needs to believe in herself and me if we are going to be successful building a future together.

I've followed your story almost from the beginning and it mirrors so many others in that we still keep our exes close to our hearts.  As much as I hate to say this and I know it is hard to hear but I'm with Next and Should on this one.  Next's comment above would represent the healthiest path to follow in my judgement.

I've met with my ex several times since we split back in June.  Although pleasant and conversational, it was very apparent that she had completely emotionally detached from the relationship as I felt more like an acquaintance than a former lover.  Any attempt by me to launch into a reconciliation discussion would have appeared needy and desperate.  I refrained from even coming close to doing so during any of our meetings and am so glad I did.

Earlier in his thread I referred to a comment Skip made to me from one of my previous posts---"She may be with someone else, may be searching for someone else or just might be spending time alone---but whatever she is doing she has decided to do it without you".  Hard to process and swallow but necessary.

Stay strong, C. Stein, and you'll be happy that you did down the road.

What skip said could and may very well be the case.  I did get the impression she still has feelings for me and that she might regret what has happened with us.  Very slight feeling but it was there none-the-less.  :)oes that mean there is hope for reconciliation?  I honestly don't know.  

I do know she has likely convinced herself that I am a dead end and I don't feel like I am.  I did pitch the idea that we start over again when I said goodbye to her, it was rejected with the "never again" tone of voice.   I wasn't a complete sobbing mess but I did have tears in my eyes, like I have for months now.  In spite of that I still got the impression from other things that she still had feelings for me.

The hard part with no contact is letting go.  Especially, if they leave you all these "loop" holes that make you analyze their behavior.  Another thing is that messes with you is the see-saw battle of 'pushing/pulling' you.  It messes with your mind.  You need to be strong.  I know you hear that and you wonder 'how?'.  There is no answer for this.  You need to talk things out when you have the urge to text her.  That first day will be the hardest.  There will be bumps and temptation but be strong.  

Right now, your communication is pointless to them.  No matter, what your intentions are.

There are no loop holes or push pull going on with her.  I am grasping at near invisible straws and I know if they are real and I don't pursue them, she never will.  If there is a hope for reconciliation then I need to be the one who makes the first step.  She will never be the one to do it, this much I am certain of.

I am still undecided on sending the email or not.  Leaning slightly towards sending it but not by much.  

I need to believe that reconciliation is what I really want here and I am not 100% certain it is, and I need to be.  It would not be fair to her or myself if I wasn't.

[Kelli Cornett]

Wow CS... .After reading that I realize no one has ever cared about me

[Squander]

A lot of reaponses to this. So I am sure I am repeating. But even if you find the right door, you are still going to be in a room with 1,000 doors again. It's guaranteed. Start looking for the exit my friend.

[Mutt]

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