The same patterns continue. Need a better plan of action.

[IfNotForYou]

I feel naive. My wife and I had a great Thanksgiving together. It was the start out of a loong period of darkness. It lasted a week. It was a great week together and I felt hopeful. I was doing my best to apply things I learned. I was trying to give structure along with the things she claimed she needed.

This came crashing down in about 5 minutes. Summed up she made a comment about a personal belonging of mine. It was taunting and somewhat mean hearted in nature. Still her opinion and she’s entitled to that. I should have known better. I made the mistake of commenting on a similar item of hers as a comparison. (Something you should be able to do in a normal relationship)

In essence, on the back of her hurtful comment, I chose to put my truth out there as to how I felt about her belonging. Not mean intentionally as a “one up” as she claims,  just that I didn’t really like it or care for her item either. An opinion I kept to myself all this time until she directly commented on mine.

This seems really stupid especially in hindsight, and truthfully it is. The result was her blowing up and dipping right back into our normal routine.

I approached her after what I thought was a cool down period and got put into that zone of not being able to say or do anything correctly. I asked if we could drop it and move on. No avail. Attempted to sleep and hope it would pass by morning but was told she didn’t want to be near me and basically gave me no choice but to leave our bedroom. Slept on the couch.

Every or any attempt there after was met with anger or yelling or sarcasm from her. I saw the futility in it and gave space. This “space” creates our long bouts of no talking. But my back is against the wall. Damned if I do, damned if I don’t. No correct solution to fix it. So I wait in purgatory.

3rd day on the couch and feeling hopeless again after a great initial week. She blew up this morning and threw what I refer to as basically a toddler tantrum. Stomping feet, clapping hands, yelling. I’m trying to use the JADE concept as best I can.

I’m frustrated. I’m wondering if this will ever be worth it. I have such a great time and life when we are on the up, but the second we aren’t it’s like being in a relationship with a child. She is not there at all emotionally for me and it feels like if I’m to continue in this I will always be putting my needs aside for hers. Feels very selfish. I know it’s deeper than that. I know it’s trauma and a defense mechanism but I’m so tired of it. I dont know how to break through. Everything feels like it’s on her terms. I might be waiting another month again till she settles down. This is so draining.

I love a difficult person. I want to get her help but can’t even begin to discuss the topic open and honesty. Everything gets twisted and manipulated in some weird way. I question myself at times very often. Maybe it is me? I got caught up in the past week of getting along that I began to convince myself maybe she didn’t have any issues or BPD. -Then it came crashing down in no time at all starting the cycle all over again. Very naive of me to think we would have no issues just cause I was “trying” harder to understand.

Anyhow I guess I need to read more about this again and continue to research. It’s NOT going away anytime soon. And the fact it’s not even officially diagnosed is a problem. Still at the very tip of the iceberg with all this.

Needed to vent. Also if anyone has advice on getting initial diagnosis or how, that would be helpful. I know it’s on this website somewhere I just haven’t gotten that far yet.

Thanks for listening..

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[formflier]

How do the "tit for tat" arguments usually resolve in your relationship?

Best,

FF

[IfNotForYou]

They don’t typically resolve. When they do it feels like listening helps. Of course. My biggest issue is that I feel I have to do all the legwork. Even when it feels it was a fight that began by her mood,etc.

This leaves me feeling constantly drained. Even when I do attempt to suggest moving forward it’s usually met with me saying or doing something wrong in her eyes and then it snowballs.

My approach then seems to have to be forced distance. For my own sanity sake and apparently hers.

I don’t have a formula yet that seems to work for both of us in these scenarios. Still figuring this thing out one day at a time

[grinandbearit]

I’m here simply to say that I hear you and identify SO MUCH with your situation. I literally joined this site today (after visiting several times over the past year to read various articles and especially these message boards) because I realized one major step I haven’t taken is finding camaraderie among others who can identify with my lived experience with my pwBPD.

Everything you describe sounds familiar to me, particularly the part where things go back to good, I become hopeful, and then things come crashing right down, leaving me feeling naive (your word is a great one). I’ve never considered myself an optimist, per se, and always thought I was a realist, but I really do seem to have a Pollyanna problem when it comes to thinking things will change (or are changing) even though I KNOW real change is only possible over a long period of time and with a lot of focused effort.

I’m lucky in that my partner, though not officially diagnosed, agrees that he exhibits many BPD traits and has enrolled in weekly group therapy sessions (DBT training) and reads, listens to podcasts, etc. I read voraciously and have attended a support group twice, but it only meets once a month, is quite full, and is at an inconvenient time for me, so I need to find better options (thus joining this site). We are both learning some tools specific to our respective sides of the relationship, but of course we use them imperfectly—sometimes we do manage to avert a crisis, but more often than not, we don’t. I remind myself that practice is practice and isn’t perfect, so I need to keep at improving even when I fail miserably.

My main failure is rising to the bait of his many provocations (and he knows better than anyone how to push my buttons). It seems that I can resist responding for only so long and he pushes and pushes until I finally snap and blurt something totally regrettable, then that’s the ONE thing I’ve said in 24 hours that he seizes on and repeats ad nauseum. If that’s not the case, then I do what you described, making a comparison or pointing out some “fact” or “fair” counterpoint that he then completely explodes over. I’m a “fixer” and a close observer interested in details and facts, but I know from all my reading that no amount of “reasoning” can calm him down in the heat of dysregulation, and in fact he views my attempt at rational discussion as totally invalidating and it backfires by enraging him even more.

I end up feeling emotionally off-kilter myself, we spend hours or days in silence, avoiding each other physically as well, and then eventually one of us waves a white flag. He is capable of apologizing, and his apologies are often specific and seem sincere, but they never stick and we end up right back in the same spiral within 12 hours, a day, a week, or ten days. I think the longest we’ve gone without an explosion in the past 9 months is two weeks, and of course the longer the peace holds, the more I’m on eggshells waiting for Mr. Hyde to come roaring back at me at the drop of a hat. That seems to contradict what I said at the start of this reply, I know, because an optimist isn’t always waiting for the other shoe to drop...it’s a paradox. Somehow I hold onto hope that things will be different this time even as I hold my breath knowing that they won’t.

I honestly feel as though I myself am developing BPD symptoms and wonder if it’s contagious. The dysregulation, isolation, and anger seem to spread, and I worry that not only am I not helping him, but I’m harming myself. Maybe there are posts on here about that topic, which I’ll keep an eye out for.

This is the first thing I’ve written on the message boards, so if you’ve managed to make it to the end, thank you. I obviously needed to vent too. I don’t have anything to offer you other than validation and a nodding head. I will say that I’ve recently listened to a number of episodes of a podcast called Beyond the Borderline and found them helpful and reassuring. The host is a pwBPD who records a monthly episode for peers with BPD, but even though I’m not in the target audience, her clearheaded discussion of her struggles, thought patterns, and coping tools give me an invaluable look into what may be going on in my partner’s brain, as he is not the best communicator, especially around this admittedly difficult to discuss/explain topic. When I listen to the podcaster, Aileen (sp?), she sounds so calm and contained that I have real hope (there’s that word again) that the disorder can be managed. I know it can. I just need help understanding what my role is in that management, mainly how to manage myself, and that’s why I’m here.

[IfNotForYou]

I certainly made it to the end. Thanks for sharing. Feedback or any type of ability to relate to another helps. Welcome. This is a very insightful place and it’s got many tools for understanding. I’ve noticed though in the short time I’ve been on here (few weeks) is that the community board seems to be very slow to respond and in some cases build momentum. I don’t blame anyone, I think it’s the overwhelming amount of people posting about their feelings. And others simply not having answers either. It can be frustrating when your looking for support or to vent and get feedback but days go by before anything happens. So much happens in a few days time in the world of a BPD relationship. Anyhow, it’s still better to vent than not. At least for me..

You seem to be in a similar situation. Obviously I have no hard advice but I can sympathize. I liken it to living in purgatory. Feels like a waiting room. My relationship. Most of the time I feel like I’m waiting for a person to show up that never does. Every time I trick myself to think “this is the time”... Unfortunately it never is. I rarely get the sorry I’m looking for. The accountability. The empathy. .

I realize that sounds selfish but it’s not. I’ve tried being the attentive partner. I’m still trying. But I can’t help but get so resentful and angry at times. I feel like emotionally my wife is at the level of a teenager at best. Not in all of life. She’s very intelligent, but when it comes to our relationship, it’s so unbalanced. Reason does not work at all. Logic is futile. This is such a hard concept for me. I have an analytical way of thinking and love to talk things out. I get zero of that need met. I love my wife. I care for her immensely. However I’ve been asking myself more and more lately how long can I do this? How long can I put my need aside? I don’t blame her cause I understand it’s not something she chose..but I can’t help but want to give up when I’m being blamed everyday, and stories and truths are being twisted to the point I can’t think straight. At some point I won’t be able to do it. I hate saying that... I don’t want to quit on her or us. But literally I was just told yesterday that’s she hates me with her whole heart and never wants to speak again. She called and apologized which is something, but this has been said more times than I can remember already. There comes a point when you say to yourself “why am I trying to understand this”? What good ever comes of it. Do I ever get to be happy in this relationship?

We aren’t all bad times. Have had many wonderful memories with my wife that I wouldn’t trade for the world. But the flip side is that we also have had many dark days between us that I never imagined we’d have.

This is a tough road to travel. It’s not easy by any means. I’m still at the early stages of this and trying to figure some of it out and see if we can make it work together. I honestly don’t know. Guess that’s why I’m here...

One day at a time. Till then I suppose information is our best weapon. Sorry to sound so gloomy. I’m caught in a stalemate right now and going on day 4. I’m drained but trying to hang in

Apparently self care is also very necessary. Something I need to improve on

[once removed]

i really dont mean to be a pessimist here when i say that one of the most misleading things you can do with yourself is to say "things are going good, so maybe things will be different from now on". i mention it because its one of the things that caught me up the most...trying to anticipate cycles, trying to appeal to my partner that we were ruining our progress...it gets you chasing your own tail.

i dont, at all, mean to say that things cant improve.

I love a difficult person.

i mean to say that realistic expectations are critical. you love a difficult person whom will always be a difficult person. yes, the highs are great, and the lows suck, and your relationship will come with those extremes.

This came crashing down in about 5 minutes. Summed up she made a comment about a personal belonging of mine. It was taunting and somewhat mean hearted in nature. Still her opinion and she’s entitled to that. I should have known better. I made the mistake of commenting on a similar item of hers as a comparison. (Something you should be able to do in a normal relationship)

while i am not privy to the specifics, i dont know that this is something you should ideally do in a "normal" relationship. never in my life has trying to show someone thats what good for the goose is good for the gander been constructive. never in my relationship was trying to teach my partner that her bad was similar to my bad, her good was similar to my good, constructive. that applies to people with borderline or highly sensitive traits, as well as virtually anyone ive known in my life.

it happens. i dont say that to beat you up.

more often, i find that saying "hey, that hurts" is far more constructive. it doesnt always guarantee the other person will agree, change their behavior, or otherwise act more constructively. i have known a lot of very defensive people whom, when you say such a thing, will respond defensively, or accuse you of being too sensitive. and thats a pain in the ass, it can be triggering, too, but not only is it better than a bout of silence...if you stand firm, people tend to get it, and hear you, even if they need to put you down in the process.

your post is short on details that would really help to know, in terms of advising you.

having said that, whatever you said, whatever comparison you made, hurt your wife. odds are, you know better than we do as to why, and thats key.

my advice? dont try to force this. dont try to calm her. when you get a reasonably appropriate chance, apologize for whatever you said or did.

she may respond in any number of ways. she may want to vent. she may press you to elaborate. she may throw insults your way. she may take it in stride and apologize back. theres no telling and it may depend on what mood, what time of the day you catch her in. but more than likely, she will hear it, and eventually, she will appreciate it.

regardless of how she responds, it probably wont feel fair. that isnt really the point. there are constructive ways to state your hurt, to let her know how it feels when she insults this item of yours, to emotionally lead the relationship and say tit for tat is wrong, lay out what the "dos and do nots" are. right now, the important thing is stopping the bleeding. you may get a chance to make those points after you do, or they may be food for thought for next time. 

[formflier]

Logic is futile. 

A very powerful observation.

What can you do with that information?

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=191788.0;all

When you read that post do you end up scratching your head and saying "do what?" or are you well versed in validation?

Best,

FF

[Hopeful and Tire]

I just joined this site a few days ago, I could literally cry from relief to know I am not crazy! I could have written this myself. I use the purgatory anology often. Everything you said resognated with me to my core! I don't have advice, I am still struggling to figure this out myself, but I can say that you are not alone and I am grateful for your honesty as it helps me to feel less alone, thank you.
I will share that my therapist has helped me with self care and boundries as historically I would comfort or try to rescue him in the down times and then after many years (we've been together 23 yrs, though only the last 2 have been really evident of recurring regular episodes) I started to stand up for myself instead of apologize and comfort. That did not go well and I think that is why things got worse. The more I define boundries or don't join in, the more he gets angry and worse it gets. Then it passes and we are great. It's hard because only  a few people close to me know that side of our relationship and even they don't fully understand. They love us and want us to be happy but also feel I should step away which is easier said than done. I love him. When things are good they are good and he is such an awesome dad...until things are bad and then they are awful! For now we are still trying therapy and I did just read "walking on eggshells". Seriously though, thank you for sharing!

[Cat Familiar]

Have you heard of schemas? In this context, it’s defined as a mental structure an individual uses to organize knowledge and guide cognitive processes and behavior.

People with BPD can have a lot of different schemas that they flip from one to another and it can be very disorienting for their partners to see them go from anger to sadness to defensiveness to rage in a very brief time.

Here’s a video that explains how that is experienced from both their side and how it appears to someone else.  https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=128784

[99bio06]

Grinandbearit I know exactly how you fell. I too wonder if it’s contagious. The depression and anxiety and years of gaslighting  take a toll. They know just how to push your buttons and mine doesn’t stop until I explode and then he feels better because he’s not the only one miserable and can say see told you your the problem and irrational one here. He will do it to other people as well, pushing until they are so uncomfortable and miserable and explode or argue back.

[truthdevotee]

I just want to say thanks for all the shares here. It's incredible to see myself and my pwBPD in all these descriptions. So grateful that you all shared.

I'm tired from the realization of it all. It's both relieving and saddening to see that she has high-functioning BPD. It's exhausting when all the strife is occurring. Now again there are a quiet few days but then BOOM, crash. It's always about me doing something or saying something wrong. The wrongness seeps into my body and soul and I start to believe it on a certain level. I suppose it's an energetic process that it's completely natural to recoil in the face of rage/anger/hostility.

I feel I need to continue to believe strongly that she can be helped and therefore, that our family can be helped.