She had me arrested

[Rewards2]

Thanks for that Matt,

I have been doing that and I will continue to.

I am wondering, has anyone gone back after being arrested and made it work?

There is not one friend or advisor that tells me to go back.

The only hope is that she will have some sort of realization.

So far that has not even appeared close to happening though

[Matt]

I'll tell you what my criminal defense attorney told me:

Never be alone with her again, without a non-family adult third party present.

[ForeverDad]

I am wondering, has anyone gone back after being arrested and made it work?

There is not one friend or advisor that tells me to go back.

I guess you could ask on the Staying board.  (I call it "Staying For Now" since staying often means constantly reviewing the situation to determine the progress.)  What we say here is that even if there are some exceptional cases and drastic turnarounds, can you count on being one of those relatively few cases?  Can you risk further exposure?  While you can always hope for the best, you must plan and prepare for the worst.  Odds are that if you're reasonably prepared and protected, it will turn out somewhere in between.

Sadly, listen to your friends and advisors.  It is what it is.  Dreams and hopes and wishes are nice but in our scenarios, well, reality is what we must deal with, accept and move forward.

Looking back... .  remember the story about Lot's wife?  She looked back, likely longing for the things or people left behind.  Didn't work for her.  She got burned bad.

Huge disclaimer here:  We are saying that the marriage and relationship with your wife are failing.  No one can say for sure whether it has already failed beyond repair, but unless there are significant changes, it will remain unhealthy and dysfunctional.  However, you do have a relationship with your children. The court will ensure you maintain contact with them.  What is in your power is to have as much contact with them as possible and keep influencing their lives for the better.  The marriage may be ending or even ended, but your parenting continues!  (We can't know in advance how cooperative or uncooperative your spouse will be when you try to co-parent.)

The only hope is that she will have some sort of realization.

So far that has not even appeared close to happening though.

If it happens, as iffy as it may be, it would be years in the making.  It will not be some sudden flash of insight, sudden flashes of insight are just as likely to suddenly revert, just as with the ups and downs of an endless roller coaster ride.  To have a chance to last it would have to have a solid foundation of continuing therapy and professional guidance.

[yeeter]

Hi Rewards.

You have been through so much.      

Maybe I shouldnt - and take this with a grain of salt because its just one strangers perspective from a distance.

But from what I have followed and read in your story, its my $.02 that its pretty highly unlikely for you to be able to go back and 'make it work'.  I havent seen anything in any of your posts to suggest that your wife has a change in position, perspective, or behavior.  And given that its now escalated to criminal charges I would fear that this would be something she would pull again (99.9% likely).  Nobody can ever say something is 'impossible' - but I will just say it seems highly, highly 'improbable'.

Sorry.  Im a stayer.  But I dont see this turning out well and Im concerned you arent doing everything you can to take care of yourself.

[Matt]

Sorry.  Im a stayer.  But I dont see this turning out well and Im concerned you arent doing everything you can to take care of yourself.

Yeeter, what do you mean - what could Rewards maybe do, to take better care of himself right now?

(I think it's a really good thing to focus on at this super-stressful time!)

[yeeter]

Good question Matt.

Your advice on taking care of the criminal/formal accusations as priority is at the forefront.  This means (to me) no interaction or approach or activity of any kind without legal guidance.

It also means a strategic plan with your lawyers on how you are going to work through the criminal charges.  It 'might' mean children protective services being brought in (sometimes this is useful, sometimes not - for me I believe it was helpful in the long run, and although they say they will not testify in court - they told me that if subpoena'd, then it DOES come into court and implied it happens all the time)

For sure it means documenting, in writing and sharing with your lawyer, each and every thing you do/did for your children and all the various ways you were directly involved in their lives.  It is imperative that you keep doing these things (increase them even!), and it might even take a court order to allow it.  But many times the judges tend to lean towards the 'status quo' - meaning how you engage right at this super stressful time is setting precedence for the future.

Your life right now should be focused on doing whatever will set you up for the most interaction with your kids in the long run.

Then somehow, some way - do something that gives you a mental break.  I find intense exercise is great (its hard to stress about something when all you can think about is where your next breath will come from).  Rally any friends, family, or anyone that owes you a favor of any kind.  Use it - even if just a connection and chit chat and something to do for an evening.

Super stressful time indeed!  I havent been through it so take my advice with that in mind - the other advice here is great stuff (use the legal boards as well!).  Its a marathon and you have to remain physically and emotionally strong through it, to have the energy needed.

Im in no way being critical of anything your doing so my apologies if it came out that way.  Im just trying to offer support and any ideas that might be helpful.  Crazy times, and I feel for you.     

[Matt]

I guess "take good care of yourself" could also mean a good diet, regular sleep, and counseling.  Those all helped me a lot.

[ForeverDad]

And you desperately need to change your perspective.

It's not, "Will she want me back?"  It's, "How do I ensure I protect myself and my children as best I can, now and in the future, and develop plans for various scenarios so I am prepared for virtually anything she does?"

[Matt]

And you desperately need to change your perspective.

It's not, "Will she want me back?"  It's, "How do I ensure I protect myself and my children as best I can, now and in the future, and develop plans for various scenarios so I am prepared for virtually anything she does?"

This is a really good point.

Let me give you an example.

When we were married, the event that caused us to separate was my wife melting down and getting violent - destroying property and attacking me with my guitar.  I tried to manage the situation but couldn't, and I took her outside the house, and locked all the doors, and then fixed the kids dinner.  I figured (not too wisely) she would go to a neighbor's house, get some good advice, and calm down.  But she called the police and told them a story, and I was arrested and charged with assault.  (Later dropped based on the police report - they caught her lying.)

When things settled down, and I had another place to live, I wanted to make sure that never happened again, and I realized that if she was ever in my house, I was at risk, because if she melted down the whole thing could happen again.  There might not be a good way to deal with it.

So I offered to do all the driving, picking up the kids and dropping them off.  Later I asked that to be put into the court order, and it was.  I didn't say why, and my wife's lawyer viewed it as a "win", because I had to do all the driving.  The reality was, it was my way of avoiding a similar incident in the future.

So you can also think about all the different scenarios that could happen - maybe like stuff that has occurred in the past, including this most recent incident - and find ways to avoid them.  Once things heat up, it's really hard to cool them down.  The best strategy is to avoid situations where things might get ugly.

[Auspicious]

And you desperately need to change your perspective.

It's not, "Will she want me back?"  It's, "How do I ensure I protect myself and my children as best I can, now and in the future, and develop plans for various scenarios so I am prepared for virtually anything she does?"

This is a really good point.

It is.

I was never in your situation, Rewards2, but I was in a situation. My (diagnosed) wife had run off, ODed, was going in and out of psychiatric wards, and was in a shelter system in between (on what pretense, I'll probably never know for sure). She did and sometimes didn't want a divorce, demanded that I bring some of the kids to her (she knew she couldn't handle them all), threatened at one point to have mysterious "people" come to "check on the kids" (never happened), and other crazy stuff.  Felt like the world was coming down around my ears.

Nothing got better though, until I changed my perspective. Until I stopped desperately wanting her back, wanting things "back to normal". Until I shifted my focus to what makes sense to do right now, based on the facts of what is happening.

[yeeter]

And you desperately need to change your perspective.

It's not, "Will she want me back?"  It's, "How do I ensure I protect myself and my children as best I can, now and in the future, and develop plans for various scenarios so I am prepared for virtually anything she does?"

This is a really good point.

Read this again... .       

[sfbayjed]

I am wondering, has anyone gone back after being arrested and made it work?

I did. I got aressted and went back and it did work.  I thought it worked, I was still being emotionaly abused though.  6 years later I got arrested again and almost went to the state pen for something I didnt do. I was in jail for 45 days. I went back again. and it worked. Then I went though hell again. I went back again, I went through hell (not jail but hell) again and again.  Now all these years later I  am going through hell again. My kids are stressed and a wreck.  

So you could go back and it could work, at least work well enough that you can lie to yourself and pretend its okay.  I would not follow in my footsteps though.  You are never going to have a normal relationship with her or even one that is almost normal now.  There is too much fuel for the fire, to many triggers in her head to turn on you.

It sucks what you are going through now.

You can go through it and spend a year or two healing and getting better.

You can give in and go back to the dance and end up in a worse position with the same feelings 10 years from now.  

Either way we are here for you.  

And I am not saying that the love you have for her 'good side"  isnt real but alot of us confuse codependency with love and a codependent disfunctional bond is the hardest to break.  It feels like pulling your heart out of your chest.

[Rewards2]

Wow is all I can say. Wow to sfbayjed for going back so many times. At this point I am not considering going back. It was one think to sit there and ignore her abuse. But putting myself in harm's way (going to jail again) is not a way to go in my opinion. I agree 100% that within 10 minutes of being back in the house after this 90 day order of protection is over she could be doing crazy stuff and threatening to call the police.

It is true, it is naive to think you will have  a sudden awakening and start to get real help. even if she did, it would take time.

A line has been crossed here and there is no going back.

The question is now what about the kids.

We have six kids. I have been seeing them. It hurts when they ask, "When you come back are you coming back for good?"

But I will have to do what I must do.

What is the way to look at custody? Full custody? Shared? Or one friend said save my money, and let the state take care of it when they see she cannot take of them and then the state will give you custody.

One thing I wanted was to avoid this. I tried. But this is what it is.

[ForeverDad]

What is the way to look at custody? Full custody? Shared? Or one friend said save my money, and let the state take care of it when they see she cannot take of them and then the state will give you custody.

One thing I wanted was to avoid this. I tried. But this is what it is.

Yes it is.

As for custody, seek the most you can get.  While we are the sort of people to be gallant, overly fair, overly whatever, that weakens your case.  Imagine going before the judge as saying I think 50/50 is fair. and she happens to still be in her emotional state and says she wants 101%.  Well, the judge, who may or may not be perceptive and experienced, might read between the lines and say, this guy has his head screwed on straight, let's give him exactly what he asks.  Sadly, that's a low probability.  More likely is that he would see mother has a history of majority parenting and so he decides to "split the difference", give you standard minority time (alternate weekends and maybe a little extra in between) and let you go off to work and pay for two households.

I often recommend that you present your parenting case as best you can, ask for custody and majority time, but also add that if the judge doesn't feel that is justified, you can accept equal parenting time.  The point is you do have to ask for extra know you will probably get less.  You can't be timid.  But conversely you also can't be unreasonable like the disordered parents and ask for 101% or make twisted or baseless allegations.

I have custody now.  But when I arrived in court over 7 years ago, I got alternate weekends in the temp orders for the next 2.5 years, while continually fending off false allegations.  Then we settled on Trial Morning and I had equal time and was the Residential Parent for School Purposes.  Two years later I went back for custody.  Another two years and I'm in court again due to continuing poor behaviors of ex and seeking majority time.  For me it's been a long process but I got there.  Others may never get to have full custody.  We have a wide range of situations here.

Your friends who say, let the state deal with it, let them figure it out and hand the kids over to you later on.  Well, what if that never happens?  What if the state never steps in?  What if her poor behaviors never rise to the level of agency intervention?  Then what?  Yes, she may be the sort that can't parent long term by herself.  But have you heard of "parentification"?  It's where the kids are raised to be the parent.  She might get the older kids to hold things together and never let it get to the point of agency intervention.  You never know.

It's questions like that which keep us involved.  And most of all, how would you answer your kids years from now, ":)addy, did you fight for us?" or "Mom always says over and over that you didn't love us, you abandoned us and walked away.  How could you?"  We understand if you can't do a $100K or $50K divorce.  We understand that she is effectively trying to drive you away.  It's not necessarily how much you spend, it's that you tried your reasonable best.  If you can look the kids in the eyes and tell them you did your reasonable best, they'll accept that.  You don't have to be Superman.

[tog]

And you can make a huge difference in their life even with every other weekend visitation. As they get older they will know they have a stable parent and a home they can go to in the event it becomes untenable in their mother's home. The thing to watch out for is her alienating them so that they don't want to come see you. Whatever you do decide as far as your time goes, fight to protect that time. Don't let her say, "the kids don't want to come see you." Too bad. Not their choice.

My SO has had to fight through that for 2 years. Every time it was "he doesn't want to see you," my SO went over and got him anyway and documented it if she wouldn't allow it. Now he's starting to come out of that and asked to keep 50/50 time in court after 2 years of saying he wanted to live with his mother.

Time is your friend with the kids... .  they may align with her initially because she'll be so emotionally needy, demanding and fragile, in their minds... .  but they will begin to see that you are the one they can count on and be kids with.

[Rewards2]

Parentification is already happening. We have 6 kids. The 2 oldest are girls and the rest boys. This week my D12 tells me how she got all three boys on the bus and to school.

Isn't that child abuse as well?

The mother sleeping while a 10 year old gets her kids on the bus?

[yeeter]

Parentification is already happening. We have 6 kids. The 2 oldest are girls and the rest boys. This week my D12 tells me how she got all three boys on the bus and to school.

Isn't that child abuse as well?

The mother sleeping while a 10 year old gets her kids on the bus?

Rewards - are you keeping a journal of all the interactions, and items like this?

Its much more powerful if you have a running log, collected over a long duration.  And any of these that can be validated by a third party is useful to note as well. 

In addition to all the negative items like this one, also it should include all the ways and things you are doing to keep engaged with the kids (practices, rehearsals, play dates, parent/teacher conferences, etc etc)

I had a limited list at one point and found it very helpful to just share with CPS, etc.  So when she claimed I abandoned the kids, I was able to provide a list of every item I was still engaged with.  The list spoke for itself and was very useful to change the preconception of the governing bodies.

[Rewards2]

Yes, I have been writing things down. And I am going to keep doing so. As much as possible and in as much detail as possible.