Need some advice...

[sadinnc98]

Do you think its worth my while to do a little "investigating"? I know without a doubt he is lying to me about starting that skin cancer treatment early and most likely is going out with her... or, going to see her at her bar. I think that if I can observe this, or catch him in this lie, that will help me. I will not confront or make a scene... I just want to see it. Thoughts?

[Perfidy]

Sound like you have to figure out what you want. If you feel like you have been lied to, its time to walk away and don't look back. If he's what you want then go ahead. My advice is it think you are setting yourself up. Do you know what you want?

[sadinnc98]

Sound like you have to figure out what you want. If you feel like you have been lied to, its time to walk away and don't look back. If he's what you want then go ahead. My advice is it think you are setting yourself up. Do you know what you want?

I just want a "smoking gun" validation that my suspicions are correct... does that make sense? Like confirmation he has lied.

[MrConfused]

If you need that peace of mind before ending it, then by all means. Just be aware that if he does catch you watching him you'll no doubt get a torrent of abuse about being controlling and stalking him. If it was a healthy relationship then he'd be right to say this, but it's clearly not.

At the very least, it will give you complete and utter closure.

[Waifed]

I sensed something was not right during my relationship.  I started digging and found the smoking gun.  Without it I might still be in the relationship and still wondering.  Once I found what I hoped I wouldn't I had no other choice for myself but to leave out of self respect.  

I put myself into a Catch 22 that forced my hand.  If I had stayed she would have lost respect for me because I knew.  I would have disrespected myself if I had stayed.  Leaving was the last thing I wanted to do but it was the only sane option.

[free-n-clear]

Do you think its worth my while to do a little "investigating"?

   Not really. You need to weigh up the pros & cons.

   

   On the down side, you might -

       * Be accused of stalking him;

       * Get into a fight with him;

       * Get into a fight with her;

       * Become so upset that you are distracted while driving home and have a collision;

       * Not find him, which won't prove anything either way;

       * Find him, but not her, which still won't prove anything either way;

     

   On the upside, you might -

       * Confirm yet again what you already know.

       

[Pretty Woman]

Sad,

  I did this myself and it still hasn't given me 100% validation and yes, I was made out to be a freaking stalker.

So be careful because IF you do catch him do not tell him you caught him. He will twist your words and make you look nuts.

I had a suspicion a mutual friend was lying to me about her involvement with my ex. I went to my ex's parking lot and saw this womans car there. I texted her and she told me she hadn't seen my ex in awhile and doesn't talk to her often.

If you are "just friends" you would be honest.

So for me, this validated but I was a moron and said "so why is your car in her parking lot".

Which yeah, made me look like a stalker but I was pissed off. The worst part is she said, "what are you talking about" like I was a moron.

Sick, sick mind games.  She is just as sick as my ex, may they cannibalize each other.

So be careful. I was so pissed being lied to, I couldn't contain myself. Then again, this confirmed my suspicions and allowed me to dump this person from my life (she wanted to STAY my friend-the other woman)---that is how sick that is!

Prepare for your gut instinct to be right. After that, don't waste another moment on the douche.

[MrConfused]

ah, but this time it should hopefully confirm it 100% & maybe that's what sadinnc98 needs.

I don't know, I think either way it's going to end badly... .

So be careful because IF you do catch him do not tell him you caught him. He will twist your words and make you look nuts.

This. No matter how much you might want to tell him, don't. Be at peace with your decision to get rid of him if this is the case.

[sadinnc98]

What my plan is (if I do this) is I will have my friend drive me, in her car. I will sit in the backseat... . if we see his car at the bar (which I assume we will)... she will go in and just check it out (he does not know her)... I will never show my face or confront... .

Just the fact that he would be out would be enough... bc that meant  he didn't start the chemo, just an excuse not to see me... .

[sadinnc98]

ah, but this time it should hopefully confirm it 100% & maybe that's what sadinnc98 needs.

I don't know, I think either way it's going to end badly... .

So be careful because IF you do catch him do not tell him you caught him. He will twist your words and make you look nuts.

This. No matter how much you might want to tell him, don't. Be at peace with your decision to get rid of him if this is the case.

Confirming it 100% is what I need... . I will not even confront in person. I have gathered my thoughts as to what I will say-allowing him to know that I know what has been going  on (I am 99% sure he knows I am on to him anyway) but being vague just saying something like "Out of respect for us both, I think its time this r/s ended. I know what has been going on and I can't continue on. I truly wish you well"


Edited: just saw that last postings... so I should NOT elude to the fact I know what is going on?

[MrConfused]

Exactly. If you tell him, he'll turn it around and say he's leaving you because you're a crazy stalker (You're not)

Do not let him have that validation.

[Pretty Woman]

I second Confused,

  DO NOT tell him you confirmed it. Just cut him off like a legion and move on from him and his lies.

I hope you get the confirmation that moves you to healing and happiness.

[MrConfused]

Yup... After letting him have the power to end/pull you back in for so long you *need* to not let him be the one this time. I know it sounds horrible & I know it sounds as if you're the same as him but you're not. You've put up with everything you possibly can.

[Cardinals in Flight]

I understand wanting confirmation, truly I do!  But yanno? One of the greatest things I learned about myself during this farce of a relationship, and I use that term VERY loosely, is that I can and do trust my instincts.  I know that I was seeing signs of a new obsession and was not being pulled back in after being pushed away, THAT is confirmation enough because these people cannot be alone, they have to have an oxygen tank, or?  An air supply, and that's what we were.

CiF

[sadinnc98]

I am so torn on this!

[MrConfused]

What are you leaning towards?

[sadinnc98]

What are you leaning towards?

I want to go and see for myself what is going on... . just so I know that I am not just worrying unnecessarily (which I know I am not... . I guess hold on to that shred of hope that I am wrong... even though I know I am not)... .   Makes me sick that he was questioning my ring size, etc... asking to marry, move in and he is messing with someone else... I just still can't wrap my head around it... . I want the smoking gun.  Then again... I was invited to do some very fun stuff with friends tonight and would love to go... but then Im just stuck hanging and not resolving this.

[free-n-clear]

  Hard as it is, Sad, best thing to do is draw a line under it and move on. Finding him with her is only gonna make you hurt even more. You deserve better, you don't need to catch him in the act to prove that.

[patientandclear]

Actually my fear would be if you do NOT find him with her. If you do, yes, I get that that is helpful, if the chatting & the other evidence you have already doesn't feel like enough to tell you something is wrong.  If you are going to second-guess yourself later for reaching decisions based on what you know now, then yes, knowing more might help.

My worry is you go, he is NOT there, and you feel reassured.

I've read when it's time to play detective, it's time to be done ... . seems to me that's the territory you're in now.  You know something is wrong.

Every time my spidey senses went off in my r/s with my uBPDex, I was right.  Down to the minute & the detail.

You probably already know what you need to know, but if you want an extra dollop of certainty & can get it, I think that could help.  As I said, I just worry if you DON'T find any new evidence.

What are you leaning towards?

I want to go and see for myself what is going on... . just so I know that I am not just worrying unnecessarily (which I know I am not... . I guess hold on to that shred of hope that I am wrong... even though I know I am not)... .   Makes me sick that he was questioning my ring size, etc... asking to marry, move in and he is messing with someone else... I just still can't wrap my head around it... . I want the smoking gun.  Then again... I was invited to do some very fun stuff with friends tonight and would love to go... but then Im just stuck hanging and not resolving this.

[Moonie75]

Who exactly is "her"?

Am I right thinking you're in a recycled relationship & "her" is someone he previously replaced you with in a previous break up?

Sorry Sad, I don't know you're history.

[seeking balance]

There is no win or no way to avoid your pain no matter which direction you go with this.

If you find him, be prepared for the emotional wrath - ignorance can be bliss.

If you don't find him with another, you will stalk him another time until you do - crazy making behavior.

If you don't look for him at all - you are not ready to let go, thus continue this cycle.

You are looking for certainty in a place that the only certain thing is you are turning into a person that you likely are not recognizing... . only you can stop the insanity... . I do hope you find peace soon.

SB

[MrConfused]

^ the above is also true. Ask yourself would you have done this in any other relationship?

[sadinnc98]

I will update tomorrow-this weekend took a very different turn... .

[santa]

What's there to think about?

There is no "catching him". If you find him in a compromising situation, he's just going to turn it around to where you're at fault.

What are you trying to validate? That he's a liar? You know he has BPD, therefore, he's certainly a liar. You have no reason to risk putting yourself in harm's way for this.

[irishmarmot]

Hi sad, my advice is to follow your gut instinct.  I did not follow mine and it turns out I was right all along.  She admitted last fri. night that she was cheating on me all along.  Its been 2 days of NC and I'm in a lot of pain but cheating was the last straw. I am also angry at myself for not following my gut 4 months ago because it would have saved me all of this heartbreak.  I don't need to know anymore details and from reading posts here, any contact with her is going to give her the pleasure of torturing me some more.

[sadinnc98]

Basically... he showed up here unexpectedly on Friday and stayed through Sunday afternoon... . again professing his love, wanting to be with me, etc... Brought a very expensive Christmas gift. We had truly a magical weekend. He didn't take his phone out of his car once (not really unusual). I was with him the whole time and other than checking messages once a day, he was not on his phone, not on Facebook, not doing anything shady at all... . BUT... quite soon after he left... I noticed the FB activity going on again, very heavily... and its still going on this morning... . he also has not pulled away... YET.  I don't know what to think other than I still want out of this... but I am conflicted... . what IF I am wrong somehow? What IF he will change-I know he won't but my heart and head are fighting.  This stuff should be so clear cut you would think... but its not!

[heartandwhole]

but I am conflicted... . what IF I am wrong somehow? What IF he will change-I know he won't but my heart and head are fighting.  This stuff should be so clear cut you would think... but its not!

Really, really normal to feel this way!  Of course you are conflicted and there is a sliver of hope.  You love him. 

Just a couple of questions, to tease out some roots:

1) Is this the kind of r/s you want, sadinnc98?  Torn, conflicted, doubting, wanting to spy on your partner? 

2) There is no "IF he changes."  That would be a projection into the future that doesn't exist.  Is THIS okay for you, what is happening right now?  It could continue like this indefinitely... .

Hang in there.  Trust yourself.  We're here for you. 

[sadinnc98]

) Is this the kind of r/s you want, sadinnc98?  Torn, conflicted, doubting, wanting to spy on your partner?

-Definitely no, but where I struggle is that when things are good/on... I have the most amazing time. He makes me feel wonderful. I have more fun, more chemistry, better connection that I have ever had. I am scared to give that up.  But it sucks because I am always waiting for the other shoe to drop, I don't trust him, I have no stability and security.

2) There is no "IF he changes."  That would be a projection into the future that doesn't exist.  Is THIS okay for you, what is happening right now?  It could continue like this indefinitely... .

-No... I can't live like this... . sadly, this has affected all areas of my life in a bad way-I look unhealthy, my job is suffering, I am withdrawn from family/friends, etc... . but I keep hoping "what-if"? But 18 mos in, we have had no progress... so what are the odds? Really?

[MrConfused]

BUT... quite soon after he left... I noticed the FB activity going on again, very heavily... and its still going on this morning... . he also has not pulled away... YET.

hmmm or he could just be logged onto facebook ?  - Doesn't mean he's chatting away to other girls :s I have it open most of the day, even at work so it would show me as being online constantly... .

[sadinnc98]

He is logging in and out every 2-5 minutes for large chunks of time (15-20 mins+) on his phone... . like he is messaging someone, they respond, then he messages back. We have been FB friends for a long time and I never noticed this activity until about 5 weeks ago. Plus in the weeks before, he was doing other shady stuff like taking his phone into the bathroom and logging on FB, turning phone upside down, logging into FB going down the interstate to dinner, etc... . I also notice a lot of FB activity late at night after the bars close... she is a bartender... . he normally is in bed by 10:30.

[sadinnc98]

Who exactly is "her"?

Am I right thinking you're in a recycled relationship & "her" is someone he previously replaced you with in a previous break up?

Sorry Sad, I don't know you're history.

He and I have been together about 18 mos... he has broken up and came back (including broken engagement) 30+ times. I have caught him on match for brief periods of time. From what I gather, he went on 1-2 dates with this girl prior to us dating... but he lies so I don't know if that is entirely true, what the involvement with her was before, etc...

[seeking balance]

He is logging in and out every 2-5 minutes for large chunks of time (15-20 mins+) on his phone... . like he is messaging someone, they respond, then he messages back. We have been FB friends for a long time and I never noticed this activity until about 5 weeks ago. Plus in the weeks before, he was doing other shady stuff like taking his phone into the bathroom and logging on FB, turning phone upside down, logging into FB going down the interstate to dinner, etc... . I also notice a lot of FB activity late at night after the bars close... she is a bartender... . he normally is in bed by 10:30.

Why are you stalking him?  Seriously, is this the person you want to be?

[sadinnc98]

He is logging in and out every 2-5 minutes for large chunks of time (15-20 mins+) on his phone... . like he is messaging someone, they respond, then he messages back. We have been FB friends for a long time and I never noticed this activity until about 5 weeks ago. Plus in the weeks before, he was doing other shady stuff like taking his phone into the bathroom and logging on FB, turning phone upside down, logging into FB going down the interstate to dinner, etc... . I also notice a lot of FB activity late at night after the bars close... she is a bartender... . he normally is in bed by 10:30.

Why are you stalking him?  Seriously, is this the person you want to be?

Because I keep hoping that he will stop doing it   I am on my FB on my computer all day because of my job-we network through FB groups so its right in front of my face... plus I do chat with him quite a bit during the day.

[free-n-clear]

... he has broken up and came back (including broken engagement) 30+ times... . he lies

    Doesn't really matter how good the good times are, Sad. The lies and push/pull are going to keep happening. Is he abusive - does he have outbursts of unprovoked rage?

[MrConfused]

Because I keep hoping that he will stop doing it   I am on my FB on my computer all day because of my job-we network through FB groups so its right in front of my face... plus I do chat with him quite a bit during the day.

You've gotta stop doing this... in a healthy relationship you shouldn't need to worry that he's on facebook all day. Even if he was & chatting to other women it shouldn't an issue as you'd have enough trust built up in each other to know he wouldn't be doing anything.

He's proven time & time again that you can't trust him but you're letting him turn you into something you're not. If you're not careful he will paint you as a crazy stalker.

Do you really want to be this person? I completely understand why you're doing it, I went there myself when mine kept messing around & I became a shell of person, it affected my home & work life. I blamed her but in reality it was *myself* for letting her do that to me. You need to be the stronger person & let go.

[Learning_curve74]

sadinnc98, it's perfectly understandable that you are worried about him carrying on with other women. It appears from what you know about him, he has serious problems being in a stable adult relationship, which since you are here on the forums, you know is a hallmark of BPD.

It is unlikely that he will change his behaviors spontaneously, meaning without serious therapy or self-work on his part. What you see is what you get. Can you sustain your side of a relationship with him while always playing private investigator? Can you keep up your side without playing PI?

I know you want him to stop doing the things he's doing. I struggle with the same exact feelings about my pwBPD. I am in a recycle myself right now feeling totally conflicted. She says she is a different person from the person I originally left, but I also see a lot of the similar behaviors as before -- somebody can't just erase a lifetime of patterns and mental programming just like that. It takes serious work to make serious changes. But right now I am trying to enjoy what we have for whatever it is for however long it might last. I am pretty sure that eventually the matter of the other guys she's always interested in will become an issue; it was extremely painful for me on new year's eve.

So knowing all that, I don't feel comfortable telling you what to do, sadinnc98. I do think that you have some questions to ask of yourself to determine what you want and what you can live with. Then you can look at the reality of the situation and make the best decisions you can for yourself. And also realize that you also have the right to change your mind at any time. The only thing that will not work is to do everything exactly the same as before and expect to have different results. Something has to change if you want something different. What things do you truly have the ability to change?

[sadinnc98]

... he has broken up and came back (including broken engagement) 30+ times... . he lies

    Doesn't really matter how good the good times are, Sad. The lies and push/pull are going to keep happening. Is he abusive - does he have outbursts of unprovoked rage?

He has "invented" things to rage about maybe 4-5 times. We do not live together and I feel that if we did, it would happen a lot more. Like I was in trouble for getting my oil changed because the guy there might flirt with me... . in trouble bc i decided to go to my family reunion (trip planned when he wasn't speaking to me for a week and I knew he wouldn't go anyway)... . most of those were drinking rages.

[sadinnc98]

Because I keep hoping that he will stop doing it   I am on my FB on my computer all day because of my job-we network through FB groups so its right in front of my face... plus I do chat with him quite a bit during the day.

You've gotta stop doing this... in a healthy relationship you shouldn't need to worry that he's on facebook all day. Even if he was & chatting to other women it shouldn't an issue as you'd have enough trust built up in each other to know he wouldn't be doing anything.

He's proven time & time again that you can't trust him but you're letting him turn you into something you're not. If you're not careful he will paint you as a crazy stalker.

Do you really want to be this person? I completely understand why you're doing it, I went there myself when mine kept messing around & I became a shell of person, it affected my home & work life. I blamed her but in reality it was *myself* for letting her do that to me. You need to be the stronger person & let go.

I totally cannot STAND the person I have become... . its like I have let everything go, feel so bad all the time, etc... How did you finally let go? He comes in like he did this past weekend, playing hero and making me feel like a million bucks, his princess, etc... then it messes with my mind.

[free-n-clear]

I was in trouble for getting my oil changed because the guy there might flirt with me... . in trouble bc i decided to go to my family reunion

Sounds like your common or garden variety BPD control freak, Sad. Glad to hear you're not living with him. It'll make the detachment process quicker and easier, as there'll be that much less to adjust to. 

[sadinnc98]

I was in trouble for getting my oil changed because the guy there might flirt with me... . in trouble bc i decided to go to my family reunion

Sounds like your common or garden variety BPD control freak, Sad. Glad to hear you're not living with him. It'll make the detachment process quicker and easier, as there'll be that much less to adjust to. 

He is a control freak to the nth degree. Even last week, when he broke up with me for 2 days, I got yelled at/hung up on/chastised for going to have a glass of wine with a married couple I know on NYE bc I put myself in "danger" driving a mile alone. Everything I do, I have rules, have to ask permission, get in trouble, etc...