disassociation and projection Arrggghhhh help

[Seashells]

Tonight I tried to improve my communication skills w/ my dBPDSO (bf)!

We were at a point of no communication. I disengaged and went silent.  (protective of myself, I was too mad to respond without reacting and I knew it). 

This evening I re-opened the dialog and communication after being accused (perhaps rightly) of not communicating well...

I listened.  I heard projection, I bit my tongue.  I recognized disassociation, didn't say a word and tried to avoid judgements. 

And then upon trying to get back in touch after a very long conversation where I heard all this and recognized it... .blah!  I was promptly dismissed.

How do you all do this? 

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[Seashells]

It's like,  I get it.   I see the things I read about on here and about BPD.  I think I can handle them.  Or at least I try.

I love this person.  I don't want to lose me in the process of trying to understand his stuff.  Im trying to see my own stuff and stay steady "on deck".  

And he still can throw me a curve and emotionally I'm right back where I started.

I want to stop being angry.  (Yes, I have become angry after over 2 yrs of this).  

I am resentful and am trying to let it go.

I'm listening to him project and disassociate.  All the negatives are toward me as he re-tells history.  So I listen, try to validate his feelings and tell myself the whole time, "hell no, this isn't how it happened, this is what it means to disassociate and project !"

 It all sounds very rational, to recognize it.  And then really dealing with it?   It's soo hard!  

He's now appearing very rational while he does all of the above, and i start to question myself and it gets to me.  

[ltul]

     I have to say just that you see what he is saying is projection and dissociation is a good start. It took me years. The things they come up with to change reality is mind boggling. I use to plug my ears or lock myself in bathroom with the water running just to make the words stop. I have had a hard time with the validating of feelings when I know they are base on some perceived wrong. So I have to admit I gave up trying. Now I just tell him I am not sticking around to listen and if he would like to stick to the facts I will continue to talk. When he projects onto me I calmly ask what proof do you have to support that. Most of the time this stops him because there isn't anything he can say to back up his assumption. Just that he feels it. Sometimes I will out right say feelings do not equal fact. I am not saying it is easy but you can choose not to engage and walk away. Listening to someone spew twisted things that aren't even true about you eventually sucks life right out of you.

    Sorry I don know if that was helpful but to say it simply would be that it's ok to validate them but don't stick around and listen when they start talking crazy talk. It only messes with your sanity.

[Herculite]

 It all sounds very rational, to recognize it.  And then really dealing with it?   It's soo hard!  

Seashells,that line about sums it up for me. I've just been reading the parts of "stop walking on eggshells" re: dealing with the BPD in your life. It's one thing to understand it, quite another to reson with that behaviour. In the end, I found it quite impossible.

[waverider]

It has taken a while for you to slowly slide into this dysfunctional RS, it will take equally a long time to rebuild yourself, and get the RS back onto a tenable foot.

Yes, the penny drops, what you read and the explanations and tools seem obvious. But to fully make it work you have to almost change your personality and the resultant dynamics in the RS. This will be a slow and evolving process. Getting past that "biting your tongue" stage is hard, but eventually you can get to a stage where you are not actively doing this, you simply dont feel the instinct to react.

Each change causes a shift in your partner so the goal posts keep moving, so there is a lot of one step forward one step back going on. As you address some issues you gain a greater awareness of issues you did not realize were issues before, so the "to do" list keeps growing. You feel like it is one big treadmill with no end.

Its only when things stop bothering you, rather than you trying to fix them you start getting anywhere. That's when you start along the path of acceptance, not only of your partner, but also your inability to "fix" or always do the "appropriate" guideline reaction.

If you get there, the pressure will decrease and you will feel freer to be just you. sometimes getting it right, sometimes not. But thats ok, you are doing your best and you feel good in the knowledge that your best is better than most. You can start to feel proud rather than defeated. That will come from within, not from just mechanically following guidelines.

The tools are there simply as aids, not as a substitute for your own development. That development starts by having a sense of direction

[Seashells]

     I have to say just that you see what he is saying is projection and dissociation is a good start. It took me years. The things they come up with to change reality is mind boggling. ... .

Sometimes I will out right say feelings do not equal fact. I am not saying it is easy but you can choose not to engage and walk away. Listening to someone spew twisted things that aren't even true about you eventually sucks life right out of you.

    Sorry I don know if that was helpful but to say it simply would be that it's ok to validate them but don't stick around and listen when they start talking crazy talk. It only messes with your sanity.

I appreciate the response so much.  Thank you.  I grew up dealing with a schizophrenic sibling.

The behavior and family dynamics involved in living with that up to the point of eventually reaching diagnosis makes this look like a walk in the park, so "crazy" is somewhat normal to me.   I have a real appreciation for the possibilities of mental health recovery from this family experience as well.  My sibling was a treatment resistant schizophrenic who had little hope of any kind of normal life, and who's life is now an incredible success story given the outlook.   I also have to recognize my own "stuff" from growing up with it. 

I had to laugh at this a a little (isn't that in itself a relief sometimes?) when you said don't stick around and listen when they start talking the crazy talk.   As I thought, well... .I might really have difficulty staying in touch at all then!        

I hadn't spoken to him in a week as it was.  I definitely withdraw.   I really struggle with the "silent treatment" because I feel like I'm doing it myself.   The difference is, at least from my point of view, it's protective of self.   I know I don't do it to hurt him.   I know I don't do it in a way to intend to "punish" him.  I do it to keep my own head straight, my own emotional well being in check, and keep my boundaries.  I get anxiety in dealing with him quite often now.  I wonder if I can stay happy and well while dealing with his "stuff".   

I get depressed, I lose motivation when things go badly.  I start to wonder who's the one with the issues.  Then I check myself and realize I don't lose a grip on reality, and I don't project, and I don't rage and name call and on and on... .and I hate to admit I feel healthier at times without him, but I end up missing the good things and get lonely when he's not around.   

I've noticed catching myself lately thinking... .wait a minute, isn't that what they (BPD) do?  Is my reaction healthy, (and justified?) if my own coping skills aren't what I want them to be in dealing with this?   Am I getting pulled into this too much? 

So much of our reactions to what they do can affect us to the point of, yes... .questioning our own mental health and sanity. 

[Seashells]

 It all sounds very rational, to recognize it.  And then really dealing with it?   It's soo hard!  

Seashells,that line about sums it up for me. I've just been reading the parts of "stop walking on eggshells" re: dealing with the BPD in your life. It's one thing to understand it, quite another to reson with that behaviour. In the end, I found it quite impossible.

Herc-  I read that book years ago, I think I'm do for a refresher.  I walk this line and question it all the time.  I may well end up where you are too.  I've gotten so angry and fed up I swore I was done.  I drew a line in the sand.  That's what lead to the diagnosis being confirmed.  Now, I feel there is some back tracking already.  I don't want to be judgmental.  I also don't want to traumatize myself either.  I have some serious things going on in my life aside from this situation; the culmination of a difficult financial investment which I hope to have successfully resolved soon.   Sometimes regular life stresses along with this stuff really becomes a struggle.

I hope you're doing well.  I don't think anyone can be faulted for not being able to cope with it.  This is hard stuff.

[Seashells]

It has taken a while for you to slowly slide into this dysfunctional RS, it will take equally a long time to rebuild yourself, and get the RS back onto a tenable foot.

Yes, the penny drops, what you read and the explanations and tools seem obvious. But to fully make it work you have to almost change your personality and the resultant dynamics in the RS. This will be a slow and evolving process. Getting past that "biting your tongue" stage is hard, but eventually you can get to a stage where you are not actively doing this, you simply dont feel the instinct to react.

Each change causes a shift in your partner so the goal posts keep moving, so there is a lot of one step forward one step back going on. As you address some issues you gain a greater awareness of issues you did not realize were issues before, so the "to do" list keeps growing. You feel like it is one big treadmill with no end.

Its only when things stop bothering you, rather than you trying to fix them you start getting anywhere. That's when you start along the path of acceptance, not only of your partner, but also your inability to "fix" or always do the "appropriate" guideline reaction.

If you get there, the pressure will decrease and you will feel freer to be just you. sometimes getting it right, sometimes not. But thats ok, you are doing your best and you feel good in the knowledge that your best is better than most. You can start to feel proud rather than defeated. That will come from within, not from just mechanically following guidelines.

The tools are there simply as aids, not as a substitute for your own development. That development starts by having a sense of direction

I always appreciate your wisdom, thank you.  It's calming (and soothing frankly) to read your responses.  

I tend to "forget" to use the tools at times.  It's like he acts rational for a week or so and I drop my guard.  It makes sense to be grounded enough in yourself so as not to feel the need to react.   It's very difficult for me when it's focused on "me", much easier if he's just being dysregulated in general about other stuff, or frankly other people.  

I really struggle with it so as to not take it personally when he focuses on me and projects his stuff onto me.  

[waverider]

I really struggle with it so as to not take it personally when he focuses on me and projects his stuff onto me.  

It will always be a struggle to a degree at times, but you learn to let it go quicker, so that it becomes occasional frustrations rather than mounting resentment.

You can't help stuff happening, but you can let go of it sooner rather than later

[Scarlet Phoenix]

I really struggle with it so as to not take it personally when he focuses on me and projects his stuff onto me.  

It will always be a struggle to a degree at times, but you learn to let it go quicker, so that it becomes occasional frustrations rather than mounting resentment.

You can't help stuff happening, but you can let go of it sooner rather than later

I second that! It gets easier with time and practice

[connect]

It's very difficult for me when it's focused on "me", much easier if he's just being dysregulated in general about other stuff, or frankly other people.

Hey Seashells 

Yes - as above x100000000!

I am exactly the same! The thing that helped me was to get out the house before he could say too much to me about my "faults" when he is dysregulating. Am learning this - only done it a few times so far. But it has helped. Usually he is dysregulated over something else and tries to twist it to be about me so he can rage. But sometimes it is ONLY about me and that I struggle with... tend to ride those out, keep away for a few days and really try not to dwell on it. This is one of the hardest things for me about the BPD, that and his validation from other womens attention.

What's the situation with you two now? you talking again? Hope you are ok 

[Herculite]

H  I also don't want to traumatize myself either.  

I was with my uBPD'd STBXW for 20 years, 2 children ( 8 & 16) and left only 3 1/2months ago.

It was a very difficult decision that I didn't take lightly. I really tried to give it every chance, and then some. I made the decision to cut her loose, and have no regrets so far, and it's highly doubtful I ever will.

Dispite all the advice on how to cope with staying with your BPD partner/spouse, sometimes it isn't possible to do it and live a happy life for yourself. That's been my hard learnt experience.

[waverider]

Taking on board all the advice and putting it into practice takes you to a place of greater clarity, so that if you decide its not for you, at least you will know why and will remove a lot of the" if only's".

Not all Rs's survive despite the best of knowledge and efforts

[Seashells]

It's very difficult for me when it's focused on "me", much easier if he's just being dysregulated in general about other stuff, or frankly other people.

Hey Seashells 

Yes - as above x100000000!

I am exactly the same! The thing that helped me was to get out the house before he could say too much to me about my "faults" when he is dysregulating. Am learning this - only done it a few times so far. But it has helped. Usually he is dysregulated over something else and tries to twist it to be about me so he can rage. But sometimes it is ONLY about me and that I struggle with... tend to ride those out, keep away for a few days and really try not to dwell on it. This is one of the hardest things for me about the BPD, that and his validation from other womens attention.

What's the situation with you two now? you talking again? Hope you are ok 

The situation now?  Day to day 

I'm heading back to where he is now very soon.  I'm going through a ton of emotions about it as it relates to him and the r/s.  And trying to keep that part in perspective and focus on me and what I want for my own future. 

It's been very rocky anyway, but seems to be picking up steam as it gets closer.   

Thank you for asking.  I've been following along with you as well and it's helping me also.