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Author Topic: Onboard with divorce now, but dealing with issues  (Read 919 times)
healthfreedom4s
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« on: December 24, 2022, 10:14:28 PM »

Background: Married to uBPDw for 15+ years, 2 kids in elementary school. She set divorce in motion in late Oct over my plan to meet my sibling for lunch during his business visit to my city/country. I actually filed the divorce paperwork to avoid her filing unilaterally asking for full custody.
Now to the current situation: She filed an answer/acknowledgement for it two weeks back (she had a surgery, so it was delayed). With her answer filing, the divorce process became firmer. She started talking about the ‘discovery’ process (sharing financial documents). I sat her down and reviewed the accounts. I had been auto-transferring 95% of my income to a family joint account every month for several years now. I retain 5% in my personal account (to support my family back home in case of medical emergencies, remember she hates my family). I had plowed what I had in my personal account while buying home four years back, so I had only four years of 5% in that. I reviewed my personal account as well for the past two years that day. She saw that I saved up most of that 5% and built a sizable balance. She also saw that I had transferred a couple of thousands in the two years to my home country. Given the overall financial scenario was much better than she would have expected, she responded well, she didn't seem to focus on transfers to my home country and we were talking well. I even broached the topic of her trauma and how therapy can help her thrive in life. I was feeling a bit positive since I had not been fully onboard with divorce decision and was looking for a positive signal from her.
The next day, everything turned upside down. She called and demanded that I share the details of my home country account. I printed one year's worth of statements, gave it to her and told her that I spent around half of couple thousand that was transferred to my home country on my parents’ medical expenses this year. She started raging that I spent money on my family. I tried to calm her down by reminding I have got an asset as a gift equivalent to what I would have spent in the last ten years. I also spoke to her about the inheritance that I would receive after my parents. She was uncontrollably raging and started slapping me. I left home and went to my apt. Up until this point, I was approaching divorce as a cooperative process with her. I realized that it is no longer possible. That night, I emailed her the statements of the accounts that I reviewed with her (except for home country accounts) and texted her in the morning saying I no longer feel safe in discussing finance further with her and that we need to wait for mediation to deal with the contentious issues. I texted her sibling about the incident. Her sibling rightfully advised her that she can get into severe issues with her aggressive approach and she backed off the next day.
While it is insignificant from a dollar perspective, it is of paramount importance to her emotionally. She hates my family and it fits into her narrative that I support my parents at the cost of our family. It doesn’t matter that I myself transferred money when her own parents had medical needs and paid all  their airfare when they had visited us thrice over the years. I led life with her for the past few years as if my family didn’t exist. It was not my intention to keep my spend on my family a secret from her. It was impossible to discuss with her when she didn't want any mention of my family. In a way, I was slowly setting myself up for this situation with my conflict-averseness.
This incident caused a change of mind in me and I concluded that divorce has to move forward. I could work with her on any other issue but not something related to my family.
It has been a bit of an uneasy truce for the past two weeks. She doesn’t come near me during kids drop off/pick up (since I texted concern about my safety). The communication is only thru text and it is down to trickle - which is actually good.
Here is how I am processing it:
Guilt: I feel guilty for ignoring red flags over the years and going on to have children with her (divorce is just hitting me).
Sadness: My older one is finding it difficult to accept that mom and dad can’t be together and take them on trips. For the past two weeks, I have been telling him that it is best if we are at peace apart than continuing to fight being together. The breakup of the family unit is causing me a lot of sadness (it is just hitting me).
Anxiety: First session of mediation is a month away. I feel anxious about the whole process and I am worried about the possibility of she walking out of mediation [she threatened once a while ago while raging that she would lawyer up to fight me tooth and nail even if it drains all the money we have. Her sibling has spoken her into mediation. There is a slight possibility that she might walk out]. I guess I just need to entertain the possibility of going into litigation in my mind and be okay with it (not there yet).
Here is how I am coping:
Spirituality/Religion: I am more into daily practices to surrender my burden to God and feel some relief.
Walk/Exercise: I am trying to get this into my regular schedule.
Support/Therapy: I have been talking to my therapist every week instead of once in two weeks. I am also in regular contact with friends/family.
Thinking about the future: I am trying to see the future beyond the next few months - on how I can form a new identity away from marriage and how I can be a resilient parent.
This is a very difficult period for me.
The hardest part is - I had been deferring a lot of things to her to keep her happy for so many years. I need to recondition myself to set boundaries now.
Please share your thoughts. Thank you!
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Turkish
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« Reply #1 on: December 24, 2022, 10:23:49 PM »

My T said, "divorce by definition is adversarial." That's even if things are agreed upon.

Excerpt
The hardest part is - I had been deferring a lot of things to her to keep her happy for so many years. I need to recondition myself to set boundaries now.

Don't volunteer information, and don't be nice for its own sake. That doesn't mean that you can't be kind or that you need to be punitive, but don't give up your rights for her sake.

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ForeverDad
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You can't reason with the Voice of Unreason...


« Reply #2 on: December 25, 2022, 08:36:54 PM »

About handling the emotions of a divorce and all the stresses... "Let Go and Let God" is a phrase I recall that emphasizes we can't shoulder everything, it's okay to lean on others during the tough times.

Note the result from you trying to appease your spouse with information, all those years of financial documents.  You have been more than fair over the years yet she still criticized you.  As already mentioned, divorce is an adversarial process.  The practical approach — once it is clear fairness (appeasement) doesn't work — is to limit the dad to day "sharing" to the required parenting matters and leave finances to the lawyers.  They are hired to protect you.  Believe me, court and her lawyer will make very sure she get more than she deserves.

If the children don't already have counseling, it is important to start.  But another caution... don't let her control counseling.  The children need perceptive and experienced counselors, not the gullible, biased or manipulated sort she would seek.

As for trips and activities, yes that will be different, very unlikely the parents can accomplish that together.  Sometimes though the kids can look on the up side, they may get two holidays (on the parents' separate time schedules) instead of just one.

In time things may moderate.  In my case, once we managed to get an equitable custody and parent schedule, we never went back to court.  (Admittedly that took more than a few years.)  Now that our son is grown and an adult, the tensions between us parents are greatly reduced.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2022, 08:45:36 PM by ForeverDad » Logged

Sluggo
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Relationship status: Divorced 4 yrs/ separated 6 / Married 18 yrs
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« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2022, 07:57:05 AM »



Excerpt
The hardest part is - I had been deferring a lot of things to her to keep her happy for so many years. I need to recondition myself to set boundaries now.
Please share your thoughts

Great insight! 

I allowed my Ex to control the mediation terms on the initial custody because I still was conditioned to have her make the decisions.    I essentially allowed her to write it up at the court house and I agreed.  I had no perception of seeing the bigger picture.  In hindsight, I should have had my sister there who was a strong personality and firm decision maker that could have helped me.  I was so wounded over the 18 years of marriage.  My lawyer was did not help me in the way I needed as he did not know of how broken my spirit was..  The result was 3 years with an awful custody agreement which I only saw 2 of my 7 kids every other week...  So only saw each of them 1 time every 6 weeks.  I was so beaten down that I thought that was an Ok agreement.  10 minutes after walking out of the courthouse I called my sister and let her know the arrangements and she was so floored and had felt bad she was not there. 

Fast forward 6 years to now...  I would never make that decision and can't believe I did.  It took over 3 years and over 100k in lawyer bills - hers and mine- to get the minimal guidelines.  Then 3 months after getting minimal guidelines by court, she sent me an email and said she did not want the kids at all. 

So great insight for you to see this now, if I had to do over, I would have brought someone with me besides the lawyer to help me negotiate what are appropriate concessions and requests for me and my kids- the lawyer does not love you and the kids like a trusted friend who has seen your chaos over the years.  .  And not cave once she disagreed.   

Mediation did not work for me.  Be strong .  You are doing All the right things.  It's hard, awful, sad, but you got this.

Sluggo
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EZEarache
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« Reply #4 on: December 28, 2022, 03:02:10 PM »

I am fortunate because I never married and didn't have to go through divorce. However, the things you are experiencing are the same with the end of every relationship regardless of.

Guilt: I feel guilty for ignoring red flags over the years and going on to have children with her (divorce is just hitting me).
Oh I can definitely Identify with this. I waited until much later in life to have kids. Earlier on I didn't feel financially secure enough. Then I met my BPD who used a lot of emotional abuse, and high pressure to convince me to have kids. I spent a very long time single, and decided it was worth taking the plunge to hold onto the relationship. Now I see the giant red flags. I moved out almost 2 years ago now. I feel so guilty for my 2.5 year old son who never got a chance to live in a healthy family. Just typing this making me want to cry.

Guilt is depression's older brother. Don't let your guilt fuel depression.

Sadness: My older one is finding it difficult to accept that mom and dad can’t be together and take them on trips. For the past two weeks, I have been telling him that it is best if we are at peace apart than continuing to fight being together. The breakup of the family unit is causing me a lot of sadness (it is just hitting me).

It will always be hard, but it does get easier with time.


Anxiety: First session of mediation is a month away. I feel anxious about the whole process and I am worried about the possibility of she walking out of mediation [she threatened once a while ago while raging that she would lawyer up to fight me tooth and nail even if it drains all the money we have. Her sibling has spoken her into mediation. There is a slight possibility that she might walk out]. I guess I just need to entertain the possibility of going into litigation in my mind and be okay with it (not there yet).
Be sure to document everything she does that makes you feel anxious. There are multiple reasons for this.

First it will help you to provide evidence for emotional abuse if it does end up being taken into the court system.

Second, what I used to do for about the first year after the breakup, every time she dysregulated, I would make screen shots of her text messages to save as evidence. Then I would write out comments of things I was thinking, and analyze what she was saying and my response. I provided it to my therapist. He gave me feedback on ways I could improve with my BIFFs. I also was able to analyze her messages and show which parts were, fact, and which were blame shifting and projection. I don't really go through the whole documentation process that much anymore. Mostly because it was time consuming. However, I also got much better with my BIFFs from all the analysis I had done. So, believe it or not, it lead to a lot less conflict.



Here is how I am coping:

Walk/Exercise: I am trying to get this into my regular schedule.
Incredibly important, this will do more for your mental well being than anything else from my experience. In fact, you can use this as the root to reinvent yourself. This worked great for me. I started an entire new social network around it following the end of my first relationship with a BPD. Yep, I didn't learn my lesson the first time. New something was off, but didn't realize it until the end of my last relationship. I wish you better luck, and this board will help you identify the behaviors of high conflict people so you don't make repeated mistakes.

Support/Therapy: I have been talking to my therapist every week instead of once in two weeks. I am also in regular contact with friends/family.

Yep, I did this for a while, eventually I started meeting in a bi-weekly video conference support group for co-parents with high conflict exs.

Thinking about the future: I am trying to see the future beyond the next few months - on how I can form a new identity away from marriage and how I can be a resilient parent.
This is a very difficult period for me.
The hardest part is - I had been deferring a lot of things to her to keep her happy for so many years. I need to recondition myself to set boundaries now.

Thanks for sharing this thought. I just realized that I was doing the same thing 2 years ago. In fact, what ultimately flipped the tables, was that letting her make all the decisions and take full control began to be too much for her after we had the baby. Then she wanted me to start being more involved, but by then I'd already resolved myself to handing over full control. This was what we actually agreed to. Once the Karpman triangle flipped, everything really cascaded down a spiral of doom.

You are doing everything correctly. It is a long road, your feelings about this will be very intense for a long time. Eventually they will start to subside. Everyone is different in their healing process. However, looking back, and remembering my feelings from 1.75 years ago, I personally feel much better. You'll get there too. You just have to keep your head down and continue on the path you've started.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2022, 03:08:33 PM by EZEarache » Logged
healthfreedom4s
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Relationship status: Married, reconciling after divorce filing
Posts: 53


« Reply #5 on: January 07, 2023, 04:43:48 PM »

Don't volunteer information, and don't be nice for its own sake. That doesn't mean that you can't be kind or that you need to be punitive, but don't give up your rights for her sake.
Thank you Turkish. That is valuable advice.

About handling the emotions of a divorce and all the stresses... "Let Go and Let God" is a phrase I recall that emphasizes we can't shoulder everything, it's okay to lean on others during the tough times.

Note the result from you trying to appease your spouse with information, all those years of financial documents.  You have been more than fair over the years yet she still criticized you.  As already mentioned, divorce is an adversarial process.  The practical approach — once it is clear fairness (appeasement) doesn't work — is to limit the dad to day "sharing" to the required parenting matters and leave finances to the lawyers.  They are hired to protect you.  Believe me, court and her lawyer will make very sure she get more than she deserves.

If the children don't already have counseling, it is important to start.  But another caution... don't let her control counseling.  The children need perceptive and experienced counselors, not the gullible, biased or manipulated sort she would seek.

As for trips and activities, yes that will be different, very unlikely the parents can accomplish that together.  Sometimes though the kids can look on the up side, they may get two holidays (on the parents' separate time schedules) instead of just one.

In time things may moderate.  In my case, once we managed to get an equitable custody and parent schedule, we never went back to court.  (Admittedly that took more than a few years.)  Now that our son is grown and an adult, the tensions between us parents are greatly reduced.
Forever Dad,
"Let Go and Let God" - This has made a lot of difference to me in reducing my anxiety, when I stopped believing I can control everything.
On Financial documents - We have paused discussing finance for the past one month and waiting for Mediator to handle it between us.
On Counseling for Children - I have not made any moves on this yet. I plan to do once divorce is final. I get what you say. With her disbelief in therapy, this is going to an area that I need to navigate carefully.
Thank you for covering different aspects.
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healthfreedom4s
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« Reply #6 on: January 07, 2023, 04:51:12 PM »


Great insight! 

I allowed my Ex to control the mediation terms on the initial custody because I still was conditioned to have her make the decisions.    I essentially allowed her to write it up at the court house and I agreed.  I had no perception of seeing the bigger picture.  In hindsight, I should have had my sister there who was a strong personality and firm decision maker that could have helped me.  I was so wounded over the 18 years of marriage.  

Sluggo, I fully understand where and you would have been at that time. After seventeen years of marriage in this case, I feel like fully spent and want to get this over with. At the same time, I realize that next few months is like the last 3 or 4 miles of a full marathon. I need to recalibrate and do what is right for the kids. I don't want to pretend that it will be naturally easy for me. I am working on strengthening one muscle at a time. Thank you for sharing your experience, I appreciate that.
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healthfreedom4s
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« Reply #7 on: January 07, 2023, 05:16:45 PM »

I feel so guilty for my 2.5 year old son who never got a chance to live in a healthy family. Just typing this making me want to cry.

Guilt is depression's older brother. Don't let your guilt fuel depression.
EZEarache, I get how just thinking about kids would make you want to cry. I had my kids photos on my phone that would change every hour. I couldn't take it, with every photo reminding me of a past memory. I disabled it.
The other day - my younger one was innocently eating marshmallows, at a community Christmas celebration in my town. I started thinking about how small or non-existent their social life has been (in comparison, I grew up in a large family setting back in my home country, which I found enriching). We literally had just one person who would visit our home once or twice in an year. With my uBPDw's interpersonal challenges, I stopped inviting people as I got tired of stage managing the visits - and we were not being invited by anyone either. With my living separately now, I take them out and trying to give new experiences when they are with me. I resolve to build up at least a small social circle for them once the divorce is final. This makes me cry all the time whenever I think about it.
I understand what you say about guilt. I am trying to stop these at thought-level and not take it into guilt. It is not easy but I am working on it.

Be sure to document everything she does that makes you feel anxious.
On my T's advice, I have started the documentation since Christmas.

You are doing everything correctly. It is a long road, your feelings about this will be very intense for a long time. Eventually they will start to subside. Everyone is different in their healing process. However, looking back, and remembering my feelings from 1.75 years ago, I personally feel much better. You'll get there too. You just have to keep your head down and continue on the path you've started.
Thank you for your words of support, it means a lot to me at this time.
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ForeverDad
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You can't reason with the Voice of Unreason...


« Reply #8 on: January 07, 2023, 07:06:05 PM »

On Financial documents - We have paused discussing finance for the past one month and waiting for Mediator to handle it between us.

In many divorces the splitting of assets and debts is the very last matter the lawyers address.  What seems to be a common occurrence is that the entire matter is rushed, and a lot of mistakes are allowed to slip through.  Be aware and be prepared to be prepared for surprises and walk out with the best (or more likely, "least bad") outcome.

On Counseling for Children - I have not made any moves on this yet. I plan to do once divorce is final. I get what you say. With her disbelief in therapy, this is going to an area that I need to navigate carefully.

I get it too.  But expecting to address counseling once the divorce is final could be way down the road.  Many of our divorces take far longer than expected.  My lawyer estimated 7-9 months, but my PD-impacted divorce took nearly three times as long... two years.  And in my experience making a post-divorce change could add more months and up to a year before getting a court's decision.

So let me put a bug in your ear.  Your goals can include smart strategies implemented at the right times.  For example, at some point custody and parenting will be apportioned.  Custody often ends as joint, almost as a default, which means both parents have equal authority.  That can be tough to get anything done without stubborn opposition and more visits to court or mediators.  Without making a big deal of it, can you be open to opportunities to gain leverage, perhaps splitting custody responsibilities?  Maybe you can get tie breaker status for mental health and education while she gets something else such as medical, etc?

All I'm suggesting is to keep your eyes open for ways to seek and obtain the things important to you.  So much better than just trying to get a divorce over with.

One last thought... I recall my lawyer telling me, "Courts love counseling."  If you do decide to raise the issue of counseling, even during the divorce process, it is very likely the court will side with granting counseling.  Ask your lawyer about this?
« Last Edit: January 07, 2023, 07:12:13 PM by ForeverDad » Logged

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