Complicated dilemma. Seeking your advice.

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My upwBPD-NPD and I have had a very stormy relationship going on 8 years. We are not a couple, but were oddly close and might have explored a gay relationship early on if she had been a non. I wouldn’t even know what a “non” is if I had not known her.  We started a company. She is the president and I am VP.  She is a very talented leader and visionary, and I am detail-oriented. This worked amazingly well for a long time, but our personal relationship was always a roller coaster.

I was in turmoil before realizing she fit the BPD/NPD profile. She would be delightful, warm, funny, validating, then turn into a splitting, raging, controlling, silent treatment, FOG, lies, projection, belittling monster.  Once I figured it out, I tried not to personalize it, but it still hurt. I know I am an addicted dependent.  At work, she wants to control and micromanage me. I try to stay under her radar, but I need to project a happy image for staff and customers. Many staff started to see through her and left within a year.  Some came to me to complain about her, and I would advise them not to take it personally. Some fell under her spell and she used them like she used me, until they got wise and left.

She is very competitive and needs to be on top. People associate the company with her name and don’t even know me, as my work is behind the scenes. People ask for her autograph. The company has received recognition. Depending on whether I was black or white in her world, I was included or excluded from the limelight of success. I did my work regardless and kept high standards of customer service. She claims the company to be hers. Actually, she lives through it 24 x 7. She has no outside relationships - men, women, or true friends.

She not a good manager but everyone reports to her.  She has a divide and conquer mentality and does not trust anyone. I have become resistant, and she doesn't like it.  Last year she hired a part time personal assistant and painted me black. When that person left, she got another, and so on. Each time, she hired someone easier to control. Since then, she has kept me painted black, and this person white. Not a genuine white, but a simulation to substitute for what I used to be. She perceives me to be jealous of this person and has accused me of it.    

I am looking for another job but need the money and can't leave until until I have one. Seeing my friends at work all the time, knowing I can’t stay, is painful. It would kill me to leave and have the company get really successful, after all the work I’ve done. Further, my BPD knows I am looking for a job, so her abandonment fear is probably on red alert. If she could only see that she is the one pushing me out!

Our upper level sees the tension between us, and wants to know what's causing it. BPD wanted to meet with me and have the top guy present to mediate. Maybe this is a smokescreen to not confront me directly? Maybe she wants me out, or maybe to stay.  

I have told a few close friends all about her and BPD. Should I be honest to top guy?  Is it ethical?  Am I enabling her by not telling him?  

Well, I did talk to him in confidence without her present. He believed she was hoping to resolve the tension and get back on track with me.  I said I couldn’t take orders from her anymore. I love the company but we need someone to manage her.  I told him about her bullying, abuse, and manipulation. I said she needs therapy.  I also said I miss her friendship.  Then I described BPD and why I thought she has it. I gave examples of the hurtful stuff she's done to me and some things I knew about her past. It wasn’t easy to explain to someone who didn’t know anything about it. I felt guilty, like I was exposing a big secret.  He proposed I scale down my job for short time and see if the distance helps. He is going to talk to her but has no power over what she does. I cannot imagine how she will react to what he says.

I woke up this morning feeling sick. Did I do the wrong thing?  It’s a very small company.  Am I fooling myself.  :)o I want to leave?  :)o I want her back? I am so entangled.  I don’t know what she wants from me now, and I am afraid I may have made it even worse.

I know this is not your normal post. The company is the relationship in this situation.  Please advise me. Pick a paragraph... .Any paragraph. What is going on?

[windy]

My upwBPD-NPD and I have had a very stormy relationship going on 8 years. We are not a couple, but were oddly close and might have explored a gay relationship early on if she had been a non. I wouldn’t even know what a “non” is if I had not known her.  We started a company. She is the president and I am VP.  She is a very talented leader and visionary, and I am detail-oriented. This worked amazingly well for a long time, but our personal relationship was always a roller coaster.

I was in turmoil before realizing she fit the BPD/NPD profile. She would be delightful, warm, funny, validating, then turn into a splitting, raging, controlling, silent treatment, FOG, lies, projection, belittling monster.  Once I figured it out, I tried not to personalize it, but it still hurt. I know I am an addicted dependent.  At work, she wants to control and micromanage me. I try to stay under her radar, but I need to project a happy image for staff and customers. Many staff started to see through her and left within a year.  Some came to me to complain about her, and I would advise them not to take it personally. Some fell under her spell and she used them like she used me, until they got wise and left.

She is very competitive and needs to be on top. People associate the company with her name and don’t even know me, as my work is behind the scenes. People ask for her autograph. The company has received recognition. Depending on whether I was black or white in her world, I was included or excluded from the limelight of success. I did my work regardless and kept high standards of customer service. She claims the company to be hers. Actually, she lives through it 24 x 7. She has no outside relationships - men, women, or true friends.

She not a good manager but everyone reports to her.  She has a divide and conquer mentality and does not trust anyone. I have become resistant, and she doesn't like it.  Last year she hired a part time personal assistant and painted me black. When that person left, she got another, and so on. Each time, she hired someone easier to control. Since then, she has kept me painted black, and this person white. Not a genuine white, but a simulation to substitute for what I used to be. She perceives me to be jealous of this person and has accused me of it.    

I am looking for another job but need the money and can't leave until until I have one. Seeing my friends at work all the time, knowing I can’t stay, is painful. It would kill me to leave and have the company get really successful, after all the work I’ve done. Further, my BPD knows I am looking for a job, so her abandonment fear is probably on red alert. If she could only see that she is the one pushing me out!

Our upper level sees the tension between us, and wants to know what's causing it. BPD wanted to meet with me and have the top guy present to mediate. Maybe this is a smokescreen to not confront me directly? Maybe she wants me out, or maybe to stay.  

I have told a few close friends all about her and BPD. Should I be honest to top guy?  Is it ethical?  Am I enabling her by not telling him?  

Well, I did talk to him in confidence without her present. He believed she was hoping to resolve the tension and get back on track with me.  I said I couldn’t take orders from her anymore. I love the company but we need someone to manage her.  I told him about her bullying, abuse, and manipulation. I said she needs therapy.  I also said I miss her friendship.  Then I described BPD and why I thought she has it. I gave examples of the hurtful stuff she's done to me and some things I knew about her past. It wasn’t easy to explain to someone who didn’t know anything about it. I felt guilty, like I was exposing a big secret.  He proposed I scale down my job for short time and see if the distance helps. He is going to talk to her but has no power over what she does. I cannot imagine how she will react to what he says.

I woke up this morning feeling sick. Did I do the wrong thing?  It’s a very small company.  Am I fooling myself.  :)o I want to leave?  :)o I want her back? I am so entangled.  I don’t know what she wants from me now, and I am afraid I may have made it even worse.

I know this is not your normal post. The company is the relationship in this situation.  Please advise me. Pick a paragraph... .Any paragraph. What is going on?

[Sogno]

I am happy to see you also Windy... .and I am sorry for your situation.

From my vantage point it is easy for me to see your attachment and reluctance,  despite the agony and grief, to let go.

If it's mostly about financial security,  then- really,  is there any amount of money or security that's worth giving up your soul?

You come across as a sterling person who deserves joy and happiness and a good life,

not a sentence in Hell.

To me based on what I hear you don't need advice on how to more skillfully tread on eggshells... .  if you need anything it's a map to the exit.

[Matt]

Windy,

I think you understand the situation very well.  And you see your options, but you don't like them!  And I don't blame you.

One thing you say that is very insightful is that your "relationship" is with the company.  I know what that's like, to work somewhere and make a huge contribution, and then to consider leaving - it would be a big loss in your life if you left.

Have you read "Stop Walking On Eggshells"?  It might help you see ways to manage the relationship, if you stay.  You could also read on the "Staying" board here.  But I don't think anything you read will make it easy, if you decide to stay;  nothing will change her behavior much.

If you decide to leave, although it will be tough, your experience as such a key part of the company will make you qualified for a great job somewhere else, or maybe to start your own company.  I started a company with a partner when I was in my 20s, and we didn't make any money, but the experience has helped me a lot, to find and succeed in other great jobs since then.

[windy]

Thanks for your kinds words, Sogno. I feel very lonely right now. I guess you do, too.  

When I am busy and don't see her, I feel strong.  I saw her for 3 minutes today.  She did not acknowledge me, though she stood 5 feet away and spoke to the person on my left. That ruined my whole day and set me back 3 weeks.

I want to spend my days with people who value me. I just don't know where they are.

[windy]

Hey Matt,  

Thanks for your thoughts. I did read SWOP and other books on BPD. They were enlightening. The communication techniques help, but take effort and patience when I want to SCREAM and stamp.  She needs constant adoration, which I used to give her. That enabled her to rise up and push me down. I stopped giving it. If we could get good management and use her talent better, I could do my job and the company might really take off. I don't think it can with her in charge. The problem is finding someone who can control a BPD.

My friend, a therapist, referred me to BPD as her possible diagnosis. She told me this was not to be disclosed. Possibly because of the hippocratic oath? I therefore wonder if I was wrong to discuss it with anyone in the company.  

I would leave if I could find the right spot. I am not an easy fit and the market is tight. I am a creative -- no business or accounting skills. That was her forté. This was my ultimate job until she turned out to be nuts. 

  Is there a place on this site to post a resume? 

[Matt]

Psychologists often don't want the person with BPD to be told, because they are likely to reject the diagnosis and get mad at whoever tells them.

It makes successful treatment less likely not more.

[windy]

I know it's true, and it makes me sad. They are like children in an adult body, emotionally stalled and too immature to understand. And it perpetuates from one generation to the next, not genetically but by environmental circumstance. 

[Indigo Sky]

It would kill me to leave and have the company get really successful, after all the work I’ve done

I have had the pleasure of working for several NPD type bosses. My limited experience, the ones that can hide it the best, are the most successful, the ones that badger their employees dont cut it (success is their drug versus abusing others), take off on their charisma and charm but burn out way before reaching any success.

Actually, she lives through it 24 x 7. She has no outside relationships

Which would explain why she terrorizes the office staff, if she had a personal life, she would be able to abuse outside of office hours.


I made the mistake of telling my ex, and yes, it feels right to want to help them, but I made a boo boo.

Dont dwell on the past, your in a difficult situation and doing the best you can.

Seperate the job from her.

I am detail-oriented

In your eyes, how is the company going? Up or down? Sideways maybe?

It is easy to eat crow when a person has a pocket of cash, not so easy when there is no return.

Once you have a gut feeling about the company, it will help with any decision you make.

If you decide to stay it may help to picture her as a child, that is what helped me, for I saw the words and actions of my ex uNPD / BPD as those of a child, uncontrolled emotions, easily slighted, etc. So when she goes into one of her moods, look over at her and see an 8 year old who is pouting because she didnt get her way. A Nelly Olsen who never grew up... .

Best wishes,

[Howzah]

I want to spend my days with people who value me. I just don't know where they are.

Unfortunately you will never get that with someone who has BPD

The pedestal feels wonderful. It's like a drug, but it can never last.

[GlennT]

Samvak.tripod has some excellent advice about surviving in a relationship with a narcissicist. Also, you may learn more here on the staying boards.   

[Sogno]

If you decide to stay it may help to picture her as a child, that is what helped me, for I saw the words and actions of my ex uNPD / BPD as those of a child, uncontrolled emotions, easily slighted, etc. So when she goes into one of her moods, look over at her and see an 8 year old who is pouting because she didnt get her way. A Nelly Olsen who never grew up... .

wow, I am nowhere near that evolved that I can be around my BPD,  despite my awareness about her,  and not be negatively affected.

I've tried and so far seen that there's a heavy price to be paid... .my immunity is not up to canceling her toxicity.

[2010]

Pick a paragraph... .Any paragraph. What is going on? I have told a few close friends all about her and BPD. Should I be honest to top guy?  Is it ethical?

No, it is unethical.  I do agree with GlennT that you need to check out Vaknin. In fact, she doesn't sound Borderline, but narcissistic instead. Narcissists are well loved in the business world as they warp reality to suit their needs. Narcissists are all about image and ego. They will say anything (lie) to make themselves sound good, even if it contradicts what they said the day before. A narcissist gets others to do their work and then steals the credit. This is why they are 'committeeholics'. They sit back and issue orders and they choose others who are comfortable behind the scenes and out of the limelight.  Those people are called inverted narcissists. I used to be one.

Her Traits:

1) She is very competitive and needs to be on top.

2) People associate the company with her name

3) People ask for her autograph.

4) The company has received recognition.

5) She claims the company to be hers.

6) she lives through it 24 x 7.

7) She has no outside relationships - men, women, or true friends.

Your Traits:

1) (People) don’t even know me, as my work is behind the scenes.

2) I was included or excluded from the limelight of success.

3) I know I am an addicted dependent.

4) When I am busy and don't see her, I feel strong.  I saw her for 3 minutes today.  She did not acknowledge me, though she stood 5 feet away and spoke to the person on my left. That ruined my whole day and set me back 3 weeks.

Comparison of the two from a business stand-point would determine that the problem isn't her. The problem is *your problem* with her. And your problem is what you need to talk to the therapist about. Until you understand that the solution to *your problem* lies within you- (and not her) -you will remain frustrated and compulsively addicted in reaction to the narcissist's bad behavior.  This is a dilemma that is worth reading through Vaknin's Inverted Narcissist info as well as Rappoport's pdf on childhood IN's.

Rappoport: "Co-narcissistic people, as a result of their attempts to get along with their narcissistic parents, work hard to please others, defer to other’s opinions, worry about how others think and feel about them, are often depressed or anxious, find it hard to know their own views and experience, and take the blame for interpersonal problems. They fear being considered selfish if they act assertively."

www.alanrappoport.com/pdf/Co-Narcissism%20Article.pdf

Vaknin:

"Whereas the narcissist devalues others – the IN devalues himself as an offering, a sacrifice to the narcissist. The IN pre-empts the narcissist by devaluing himself, by actively berating his own achievements, or talents. The IN is exceedingly distressed when singled out because of actual accomplishments or a demonstration of superior skills.

the Invert is psychologically incapable of fully realising her inherent potentials without a primary narcissist to filter the praise, adulation or accomplishments through. She must have someone to whom praise can be redirected.

Is extinguishingly selfless, sacrificial, even unctuous in her interpersonal relationships and avoids the assistance of others at all costs. Can only interact with others when she can be seen to be giving, supportive, and expending an unusual effort to assist."

www.samvak.tripod.com/faq66.html

[windy]

It would kill me to leave and have the company get really successful, after all the work I’ve done

In your eyes, how is the company going? Up or down? Sideways maybe?

If you decide to stay it may help to picture her as a child, that is what helped me, for I saw the words and actions of my ex uNPD / BPD as those of a child, uncontrolled emotions, easily slighted, etc. So when she goes into one of her moods, look over at her and see an 8 year old who is pouting because she didnt get her way.

Fuzzy, you are right about all this. The company could be going up, but we need better management. The control freak is what stops us from expanding. And her childish behavior is mostly aimed at me. If she could accept some of my advice, I think we could do better.

[Matt]

Careful guys.  I don't know much about Sam Vaknin but I think he's very controversial to say the least - not in the mainstream of his field.

[windy]

2010 - your reply really made me think!  

She has characteristics of NPD and BPD. There is a lot of crossover in these disorders.  Her work persona is NPD. In our personal relationship, she is BPD. She is stormy, terrified of abandonment, insecure, can't keep friends, always searching, nasty, no sense of self. When she is tense, the slightest eye movement can set her into a rage. Every piece of SWOE matched.

I have never heard the term inverted narcissist. It does sound like me. I was in therapy for issues like this, but I thought it was self-esteem. One of the things I learned is not to be afraid of saying no, being up front with people, taking a stand. I am not a doormat. But my mother does have some narcissist traits, so my tendency to search for validation is definitely there.

Can you explain where you said it is unethical - are you referring to discussing the issues with anyone, or pinpointing it on BPD?  

Thanks so much for your feedback.

[windy]

Careful guys.  I don't know much about Sam Vaknin but I think he's very controversial to say the least - not in the mainstream of his field.

Now that you say this - I remember his name came up a few weeks ago. I believe he posted something on the site.