How do you tell BPD person about DBT therapy?

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

I touched on this in my other threads.

My now ex again udBPDgf says she had therapy many years ago but "it doesn't work."  I know she has been treated for depression and currently takes meds for depression and anxiety.

How would you go about letting a person who probably has BPD about DBT and other therapy methods that can help?

I want her to get help and set a boundary for myself (can't be more than acquaintances ever until she is in therapy etc).

I don't want to sound judgmental.

Thank you.

[nowwhatz]

I touched on this in my other threads.

My now ex again udBPDgf says she had therapy many years ago but "it doesn't work."  I know she has been treated for depression and currently takes meds for depression and anxiety.

How would you go about letting a person who probably has BPD about DBT and other therapy methods that can help?

I want her to get help and set a boundary for myself (can't be more than acquaintances ever until she is in therapy etc).

I don't want to sound judgmental.

Thank you.

[patientandclear]

The people who report success doing this seem to avoid diagnostic labels & just talk about how they've learned of an approach to therapy that helps with emotional dysregulation and sudden dramatic changes in feelings, and teaches how to make it through those moments without doing more damage by panicked reactions.  Then provide some links to descriptions of DBT, hopefully that do not discuss BPD, and maybe some local providers.  Then leave it alone.

But if it is your boundary that you will not be in a romantic r/s without her being in DBT, you can say that.

[Newton]

nowwhatz... .  i was hoping to understand the boundary you are proposing a little better... .  could you elaborate?... .  

It's important to understand that boundaries are to protect our own values and welfare... .  they are not designed to present other people with ultimatums... .  

So with that in mind... .  what would your boundary look like?... .  

[nowwhatz]

nowwhatz... .  i was hoping to understand the boundary you are proposing a little better... .  could you elaborate?... .  

It's important to understand that boundaries are to protect our own values and welfare... .  they are not designed to present other people with ultimatums... .  

So with that in mind... .  what would your boundary look like?... .  

Thanks Newton.

Yes I intend to somehow provide the information and not give an ultimatum... .  unless I consider it an ultimatum to myself.

The boundary for me would be to further limit contact and not pursue a serious friendship or romantic relationship if this person does not begin the therapy. I don't know that I would necessarily have to share that with her.

From what I am reading it sounds like the DBT is one of the only methods that has shown to be effective.

[nowwhatz]

The people who report success doing this seem to avoid diagnostic labels & just talk about how they've learned of an approach to therapy that helps with emotional dysregulation and sudden dramatic changes in feelings, and teaches how to make it through those moments without doing more damage by panicked reactions.  Then provide some links to descriptions of DBT, hopefully that do not discuss BPD, and maybe some local providers.  Then leave it alone.

But if it is your boundary that you will not be in a romantic r/s without her being in DBT, you can say that.

That is excellent thank you. Yes I agree something that hopefully does not mention BPD.

Emotional dysregulation, sudden dramatic changes in feelings and panicked reactions.

Exactly what the behavior is that I see.

[seeking balance]

nowwhatz... .  i was hoping to understand the boundary you are proposing a little better... .  could you elaborate?... .  

It's important to understand that boundaries are to protect our own values and welfare... .  they are not designed to present other people with ultimatums... .  

So with that in mind... .  what would your boundary look like?... .  

Thanks Newton.

Yes I intend to somehow provide the information and not give an ultimatum... .  unless I consider it an ultimatum to myself.

The boundary for me would be to further limit contact and not pursue a serious friendship or romantic relationship if this person does not begin the therapy. I don't know that I would necessarily have to share that with her.

From what I am reading it sounds like the DBT is one of the only methods that has shown to be effective.

Why?

Meaning... what is it you hope therapy is going to change?

[nowwhatz]

nowwhatz... .  i was hoping to understand the boundary you are proposing a little better... .  could you elaborate?... .  

It's important to understand that boundaries are to protect our own values and welfare... .  they are not designed to present other people with ultimatums... .  

So with that in mind... .  what would your boundary look like?... .  

Thanks Newton.

Yes I intend to somehow provide the information and not give an ultimatum... .  unless I consider it an ultimatum to myself.

The boundary for me would be to further limit contact and not pursue a serious friendship or romantic relationship if this person does not begin the therapy. I don't know that I would necessarily have to share that with her.

From what I am reading it sounds like the DBT is one of the only methods that has shown to be effective.

Why?

Meaning... what is it you hope therapy is going to change?

I hope the therapy will help this person. For me I am hoping her going to the therapy will improve whatever r/s we have.

[seeking balance]

nowwhatz... .  i was hoping to understand the boundary you are proposing a little better... .  could you elaborate?... .  

It's important to understand that boundaries are to protect our own values and welfare... .  they are not designed to present other people with ultimatums... .  

So with that in mind... .  what would your boundary look like?... .  

Thanks Newton.

Yes I intend to somehow provide the information and not give an ultimatum... .  unless I consider it an ultimatum to myself.

The boundary for me would be to further limit contact and not pursue a serious friendship or romantic relationship if this person does not begin the therapy. I don't know that I would necessarily have to share that with her.

From what I am reading it sounds like the DBT is one of the only methods that has shown to be effective.

Why?

Meaning... what is it you hope therapy is going to change?

I hope the therapy will help this person. For me I am hoping her going to the therapy will improve whatever r/s we have.

specifically, what is it that her going to therapy will improve about your relationship?  meaning, what actions or behaviors do you want your gf to do or not do?

[nowwhatz]

nowwhatz... .  i was hoping to understand the boundary you are proposing a little better... .  could you elaborate?... .  

It's important to understand that boundaries are to protect our own values and welfare... .  they are not designed to present other people with ultimatums... .  

So with that in mind... .  what would your boundary look like?... .  

Thanks Newton.

Yes I intend to somehow provide the information and not give an ultimatum... .  unless I consider it an ultimatum to myself.

The boundary for me would be to further limit contact and not pursue a serious friendship or romantic relationship if this person does not begin the therapy. I don't know that I would necessarily have to share that with her.

From what I am reading it sounds like the DBT is one of the only methods that has shown to be effective.

Why?

Meaning... what is it you hope therapy is going to change?

I hope the therapy will help this person. For me I am hoping her going to the therapy will improve whatever r/s we have.

specifically, what is it that her going to therapy will improve about your relationship?  meaning, what actions or behaviors do you want your gf to do or not do?

I am hoping that her going to therapy will reduce the frequency and intensity of the constant changes in feelings. Help her recognize what is happening and not panic, flake out then recycle.

[seeking balance]

nowwhatz... .  i was hoping to understand the boundary you are proposing a little better... .  could you elaborate?... .  

It's important to understand that boundaries are to protect our own values and welfare... .  they are not designed to present other people with ultimatums... .  

So with that in mind... .  what would your boundary look like?... .  

Thanks Newton.

Yes I intend to somehow provide the information and not give an ultimatum... .  unless I consider it an ultimatum to myself.

The boundary for me would be to further limit contact and not pursue a serious friendship or romantic relationship if this person does not begin the therapy. I don't know that I would necessarily have to share that with her.

From what I am reading it sounds like the DBT is one of the only methods that has shown to be effective.

Why?

Meaning... what is it you hope therapy is going to change?

I hope the therapy will help this person. For me I am hoping her going to the therapy will improve whatever r/s we have.

specifically, what is it that her going to therapy will improve about your relationship?  meaning, what actions or behaviors do you want your gf to do or not do?

I am hoping that her going to therapy will reduce the frequency and intensity of the constant changes in feelings. Help her recognize what is happening and not panic, flake out then recycle.

ok - so, how does her contstant changes make YOU feel?  How does it effect you?

Does she see her constant changes in feelings as a problem in the relationship with you?

[Newton]

nowwhatz... .  I am frankly useless at the blue quoting thing that even newbies seem so adept at here... .  (can someone please pm me a link to a lesson on this! )

It seems like you have a pretty big conflict here... .  one I went through... .  

Wanting to look after yourself... .  (by not experiencing her worst)... .  and wanting to benefit from her best bits (which are sporadic and diminishing)... .  

This person is who she is NOW... .  

A boundary that it sounds like you want to set will result in her not being compatible with your needs right now... .  It seems to me like that is creating an internal conflict in you, something you know you should do for self preservation, versus doing that same thing that will cause you temporary pain... .  ? Is this your dilemma?... .  

[nowwhatz]

nowwhatz... .  I am frankly useless at the blue quoting thing that even newbies seem so adept at here... .  (can someone please pm me a link to a lesson on this! )

It seems like you have a pretty big conflict here... .  one I went through... .  

Wanting to look after yourself... .  (by not experiencing her worst)... .  and wanting to benefit from her best bits (which are sporadic and diminishing)... .  

This person is who she is NOW... .  

A boundary that it sounds like you want to set will result in her not being compatible with your needs right now... .  It seems to me like that is creating an internal conflict in you, something you know you should do for self preservation, versus doing that same thing that will cause you temporary pain... .  ? Is this your dilemma?... .  

Yes this is pretty close to what it is.

Right now she is detaching to likely going to rebound guys she usually hangs out with in between recycles so the disconnect is in motion.  There is no good time to relay info.

Her best bits are sporadic but during this last recycle she was more stable than I have ever seen her until something triggered the pushaway or whatever it is.

Yeah probably I should stop thinking about it and preserve myself.

[nowwhatz]

nowwhatz... .  i was hoping to understand the boundary you are proposing a little better... .  could you elaborate?... .  

It's important to understand that boundaries are to protect our own values and welfare... .  they are not designed to present other people with ultimatums... .  

So with that in mind... .  what would your boundary look like?... .  

Thanks Newton.

Yes I intend to somehow provide the information and not give an ultimatum... .  unless I consider it an ultimatum to myself.

The boundary for me would be to further limit contact and not pursue a serious friendship or romantic relationship if this person does not begin the therapy. I don't know that I would necessarily have to share that with her.

From what I am reading it sounds like the DBT is one of the only methods that has shown to be effective.

Why?

Meaning... what is it you hope therapy is going to change?

I hope the therapy will help this person. For me I am hoping her going to the therapy will improve whatever r/s we have.

specifically, what is it that her going to therapy will improve about your relationship?  meaning, what actions or behaviors do you want your gf to do or not do?

I am hoping that her going to therapy will reduce the frequency and intensity of the constant changes in feelings. Help her recognize what is happening and not panic, flake out then recycle.

ok - so, how does her contstant changes make YOU feel?  How does it effect you?

Does she see her constant changes in feelings as a problem in the relationship with you?

Well as far as her... .  yes. She does not try to punish me or hurt me and was very apologetic at the beginning (for the prior recycle) and the end.  She is confused no doubt and I think she is seeing the toll her changes are taking on me.

I had an opportunity to share my depressed feelings with her in a non judgmental way. She saw how I was damaged.

As for me in the past I was devastated. I used to feel very used before when she would change. Now not so much.

This time I am unhappy and depressed but there is also a new numbness I am experiencing. I have not been crying. I have not been overly distracted.  I miss her but I don't miss her.

I saw her last night... .  at the casino. She was supposed to meet me at about 7 but was not there. We had this text conversation which is a good mild example of what the r/s is like sometiems. Her english is not perfect but you will get it:

Me: I'm at hit__.

Her: I'm my apt... .         she means at her apt

Me: Are you coming?

Her: Is there a lot of people there?

Me: yep

Her: Yes im leaving 10 minutes

Her: Are you be there?

Me: Okee dokee I will be here

Her: Are you sure?

Me: I will be here.

Her: I'm nervous now don't know why.

Me: Are u sick?

Her: U will be there?

Me: yep I will be here

Her: I'm nervous... .  u will be there?

Me: yes

Her: I will call u when I get there ok?

When she arrived she grabbed my arm and said see how cold my hands are. Afterward I tried my best to be in a different part of the casino. I would come by to check on her every now and then.

Anyways... .  my point is I am starting to look at her more like a very sick person and just am not feeling the fire for her like before.  I am getting numb but maybe that is a good thing.

I am reminded of a quote from my favorite tv show "Breaking Bad" ... .  after walter white gets beaten up his partner tells him something like ... .  "not to say you get used to getting the crap kicked out of you... .  but you get used to it."

Maybe that is what is happening to me. I am getting used to it.

[seeking balance]

I am having a hard time following that example, sorry.

What is it that you want from her exactly?

[nowwhatz]

I am having a hard time following that example, sorry.

What is it that you want from her exactly?

sorry that was an example of her fear of abandonment i think.

i want her to get better. i hope she can get better. i want to have a r/s with her without the recycles. i want her to give love. to me.

this is just not going to happen the way i want.

[almost789]

I brought the idea of DBT and other treatment options to my pwBPD through books. I did not mention any diagnoses. I tell him these techniques were for anyone who wants to learn how to better handle their emotions. I even said i need to learn these techniques for myself and asked if he would do them with me. He actually seemed like he was relieved and glad. Then the next day he started calling me crazy and flaked out on me and said he wanted nothing to do with my warped reality. He fell victim to projection and splitting.

[nowwhatz]

I brought the idea of DBT and other treatment options to my pwBPD through books. I did not mention any diagnoses. I tell him these techniques were for anyone who wants to learn how to better handle their emotions. I even said i need to learn these techniques for myself and asked if he would do them with me. He actually seemed like he was relieved and glad. Then the next day he started calling me crazy and flaked out on me and said he wanted nothing to do with my warped reality. He fell victim to projection and splitting.

thanks everyone for your input and consideration.

well with the history and considering all the similiar experiences i am reading about here and lack of many success stories ... .  i expect to simply provide the info in a non judgemental way probably at the onset of the next recycle attempt... .  or sooner if i am in a comfortable environment with the exwhatevergf.

nothing to lose on my part  i dont have what i want because it does not exist and i have largely accepted her mental illness... .  and how it affects me with no hard feelings.

[seeking balance]

I am having a hard time following that example, sorry.

What is it that you want from her exactly?

sorry that was an example of her fear of abandonment i think.

i want her to get better. i hope she can get better. i want to have a r/s with her without the recycles. i want her to give love. to me.

this is just not going to happen the way i want.

ok - I am going to be direct with you because you are on the fence and I think I understand where you are right now.

Summing this up - you are not happy in this relationship, you are pretty sure it is her,but you are not sure exactly what you need/want.

My advice is to focus on you and what you want or need - until you can be tangible in your own needs - asking someone to go to therapy for their own issues seems a bit unfair.   

DBT is not a magic pill - it is a lot of work and the pwBPD must really really want to do this for them... .  not for you.  It has to be her idea and honestly your needs still won't be met if you don't know what exactly they are even if she goes to DBT.

[nowwhatz]

I am having a hard time following that example, sorry.

What is it that you want from her exactly?

sorry that was an example of her fear of abandonment i think.

i want her to get better. i hope she can get better. i want to have a r/s with her without the recycles. i want her to give love. to me.

this is just not going to happen the way i want.

ok - I am going to be direct with you because you are on the fence and I think I understand where you are right now.

Summing this up - you are not happy in this relationship, you are pretty sure it is her,but you are not sure exactly what you need/want.

My advice is to focus on you and what you want or need - until you can be tangible in your own needs - asking someone to go to therapy for their own issues seems a bit unfair.   

DBT is not a magic pill - it is a lot of work and the pwBPD must really really want to do this for them... .  not for you.  It has to be her idea and honestly your needs still won't be met if you don't know what exactly they are even if she goes to DBT.

Thanks SB. Yes on the fence is where I am.  I will attempt to focus on myself and what I need and make it a point to discuss with the T on Friday.