What color is love?

[Rockylove]

Let me just spare any of you who might get bored with my posts... .I am an artsy fartsy tree hugging hippie who feels in technicolor and often gets way too philosophical and introspective, then has the need to verbalize the concept or thought process in an attempt to give it form.  It helps me process thoughts if that makes any sense at all.  My point is that much of what I post will be just that... .giving color to a concept.  I welcome feedback and I find it most interesting to hear others interpretation of concepts.

Several years back, I read the book The Five Love Languages.  At the time I was struggling with a relationship and as I always seem to do, was trying to figure out what I was doing wrong.  The book opened my eyes in as much as I felt that I'd really pinpointed what I was looking for in a loving relationship~~what my needs were~~what makes me FEEL loved, etc.  I believe now that I can articulate the concept of LOVE and what it means for me.  It has become more real.  It has taken on a color that is beautiful. 

It doesn't end there... .knowing the color of my love (what makes me feel loved) is invaluable, but in a relationship, one must also know what color their partner's love is and that's where I'm hung up.  It seems my BPD/bf has never defined the concept.  He can't articulate what being loved means to him.  Perhaps because it has never taken shape for him~~it's still a concept without a form. 

I know he feels unlovable and has said it more often than not that he doesn't understand why I love him.  I love him unconditionally and he can't understand why.  He seems to attach a lot of baggage to the concept of loving.  He says that he I don't have to DO anything for him to love me and that he loves ME and not what I DO, but when he's upset, he goes on about what he thinks I want him to do.  He feels guilty about not doing things (and not having a job) which for the most part I could care less about and I've told him that.  He's worked way too many hours for way too many years to placate the desires and expectations of his ex's.  He told me more than once about going into a suit and tie job because the woman (I believe it was his 1st wife, but could have been the 2nd) didn't like him being a mechanic... .it wasn't glamorous enough for her.   He doesn't believe that I love him whether he does something or does nothing.  He says that I love him and stay with him as long as he's paying for everything.  (that really hits a raw nerve with me, but I'm working on overcoming my insecurities with that) 

What I'm coming to realize is that this is very much a part of the BPD.  I don't know how to help him articulate his desires and feelings (sometimes when he's a bit tipsy he'll make some random statement out of the blue, but it's difficult to get him to expand the thought)   There are times when he begins to tell me something but then cuts it short because it's not practical or he feels unworthy.  I can't change how he feels... .and I know that his experiences (along with BPD) have lead him to believe that everyone wants him to do or be a certain way in order for them to continue to love him.  He doesn't understand the concept of just "being" is enough.  I recently told him that even through the difficult times, I love him more than chocolate (inside joke) and he broke into a grin that melted my heart.  He looked like a child that just brought home an A on a spelling test.  I think at that very moment I saw a glimpse of the color of his love.   

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[CodependentHusband]

First of all, there is NOTHING boring about any of your posts. One thing I have noticed is that my wife seems to be scared to delve into things like this... .I know exactly what makes me feel loved, and I've broken it down into some concrete ways in the past... .She seems so uncomfortable even thinking about anything like this. She's told me a few times before during some moments of clarity that she, "doesn't quite know how to act, because nobody has ever treated her right." I see some of this as an idealization, and, I'm sure that she doesn't feel this way all of the time... .no doubt about that.

To put this in terms of your analogy, I see the color of my love as a solid, deep, dark shade that has changed only slightly over my lifetime. As for my dBPDw's color of love... .well, it's like a rainbow, with many different colors, but never more than one solid color at any given time... .just depends on the day of the week. 

[Rockylove]

I'm almost hesitant to say that I actually like the thought of your wife's rainbow... .  not in a negative way, but I understand it.  I can be all over the color wheel, but I know for sure what color my love is and very much like your own, it's rich and deep.  I'm glad that you understood what I was saying... .  it isn't often that I even express the thought of seeing in technicolor because some people will place the "crazy" label on me for it... .  I'm not crazy... .  just prefer to see life through the prism and extract the beauty of it all.  Hmmmm... .  this just made me think of something "he" said to me once... .  I said I think in technicolor and he said he thinks through a kaleidoscope.  I'm going to ponder that thought for a while.

[CodependentHusband]

Hmm... .  A kaleidoscope... .  That is kind of telling.

[tryingtogetit]

One thing to watch out for Rocky is that proving your love, trying to make him feel loved can be a great drain on you.

In my experience a BPD will never really feel loved (because theyknow they don't deserve love) for any length of time. Even though it's so at the core of their problem and it's so sad, we can't really fix that.

It's very easy for a BPD to use our compassion and feelings of guilt as a way to keep us attached and giving them all our attention. So we do a bigger effort and they can get away with more.

Especially when they get upset (feel more hurt) they'll use any tool they can to relieve their feelings and using our love against us is one of them.

Basically, in my experience, they will say whatever they notice we are sensitive to. In order to feel a little better in that moment.

(On the note of being sensitive to something, you might want to re-examine the stories about is wives because that might just be a tool for him to get your pity)

What they say, especially in an outburst, is in no way a real reflection of YOU. It's prob not even a real representation of what they feel. They'll just grasp anything that seems to offer relief or get them something. And it works because we apologize, feel guilty and work harder trying to fill the void only they can fill.

Try not to take it personal. Do try to validate the underlying feeling of hurt.

Show your love in a constistent way but true to you, that's the biggest gift anyone can get.

[shatra]

Hi

I didn't know about the 5 Languages, so I just did an online search. That is really interesting! I took the quiz, and he and I would both focus on "words of affirmation". Yet I would need more in the way of gifts than him. I can read more about it, and am wondering if the idea is to be aware of the partner's style and try to "talk" to them in that style? So, focus on words or physical touch depending on what the partner craves?

  Do you have any other thoughts to expand on when he says he feels unlovable and doesn't understand why you love him? Why does he think that?

Shatra

[Rockylove]

Shatra,  "... .  am wondering if the idea is to be aware of the partner's style and try to "talk" to them in that style?"  That is indeed the idea behind the thought in this book.   Because we know ourselves what makes us feel loved, but that same thing does not necessarily make another person feel loved.  Some times it's difficult to understand (especially in a new relationship) what another person's needs are unless they are specifically defined.  In a "healthy" relationship, people are able to discuss these things and decide if the relationship will ultimately be mutually beneficial.  In a dysfunctional relationship, that doesn't happen. 

I have been working to overcome codependency issues for a very long time.  It's a struggle... .  I stumble and I fall, but I get back up and try again.  I have had a difficult time telling someone what MY needs were... .  I'm getting better at it.  I also believe that my needs have changed somewhat as I'm aging.  What really makes me feel loved in my 50's isn't exactly the same as it was when I was in my 20's.  Regardless... .  I had to learn to express what it was that would make me feel loved in a relationship.  My partner was not a mind reader nor was I. 

I fell back into old patterns of behavior recently because my BPD/bf doesn't articulate his needs~~mostly I've recently discovered is because he feels he's a selfish person.  I did for him what I knew to do that made ME feel loved.  It's been an all out effort to get him to give me anything concrete.  He can tell me what not to do, but the concept of what would make him feel loved is elusive.  HE doesn't know what would make him feel loved well enough to tell me what it looks like. 

In a perfect world, mentally healthy parents raise mentally healthy children through love and encouragement, building a strong foundation where the child will develop self esteem, an upright moral code and good cognitive skills that will be carried through life.  We don't live in a perfect world and I don't know of many (If I personally know any at all) where this has happened.  I don't know all of the story... .  probably will never know, but I believe the damage was done very early on in my BPD's life.  He says he was born selfish, has always been selfish and will probably die selfish.  I certainly don't see that, but from the strange little stories he tells me, I believe that the adults in his life gave him a good brain washing.  Most of the times he speaks of his past has to do with people disapproving of him because of his selfishness. 

Rational thinking for a person with a strong sense of self would be to dismiss the criticism and understand that some of what has transpired is normal behavior to which the responses from others was irrational.  I know intellectually that a developing ego is responsive to external stimuli (whether positive or negative) and will react accordingly~~brainwashing!  My mother ALWAYS said "do this like a good girl" and my little brain said "if you don't DO you are a bad girl" thus equating DOING to GOODNESS.  As long as I was doing something for someone I was good.  How does such a simple statement become such a monstrous malfunction?  It has much to do with the entire picture of how I was raised and the dynamics of the relationships of the adult figures in my life.  There was dysfunction.

When we first meet someone, they don't often tell you all the sordid details of their past... .  all of their triggers, their malfunctions, etc... .  it's only through time and getting to know a person that these things come to light.  I'm more willing now to put it out on the table that I'm quirky, slightly dysfunctional and harmlessly crazy than I was in the past, but that's mostly because I've come to terms with a lot of the dysfunction.  He has not.  I don't like being rejected any more than anyone else, but if I am rejected I know I'll still be me and I'll still go on.  I don't think he has that.  It seems to me that with every rejection (failed relationship) more of him disappears.