The TP debacle

[iamconfused]

A couple of weeks ago, my bf came out of the bathroom to the living room where I was watching TV.  He declared that I don't even know how to put the TP roll on right.  The correct way is 'over'.

I responded by telling him if that's what you want, no problem I can do that.  It has never been a concern of mine, I am just a happy person to have TP within reach.

So he continued with berating me about how I don't care about things.  I tuned him out.  To me the discussion was over.  He told me what he wanted and I can do it, no problem - I mean really, that will take a nanosecond out of my life to ensure the paper is 'correct'.

but he wouldn't stop going on and on about how wrong I was... .  I continued watching TV.  It took about a half an hour, but he finally stopped.  Awe, the peace!

Yesterday he put a new roll on.  And guess what - it was 'under'.  As I was sitting there I smile and turned it the right way.  I thought it was amusing.  So I go to him and in a funny light-hearted way, I told him he put the roll on wrong.  I was just teasing a bit trying to make him smile.  I honestly thought we both could laugh about it.

Didn't work out so well.

He goes into the bathroom, manhandles the tp, came back and announced that its now perfect - just the way I demanded it and off he goes on a rant about how I have to have everything perfect... .  

I didn't respond, but I know I had a puzzled look on my face.  Um, this wasn't my issue to begin with.

Last night before going to bed I am grabbing for a piece of TP when one side fell off the wall.  I know how to fix it with that little screw thing, but it was late so I left it for the morning.

Well, this morning he saw it off the wall and asked wth?  I told him if fell off last night.  He called me a liar and stormed off.

Really?  all this over something that he really doesn't even care about to begin with.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Somewhere]

Yeah.  Some is just comedy of the gods.   

If you think about, it may be fun to "Toilet Paper" the bed.  Or come into the room wrapped up in Toilet Paper, like a mummy, walking like an Egyptian and moaning.

But really probably just best to smile inside about all those thought crimes.

Them Crazy Folks can be fun to be around sometimes if you let it.   

[iamconfused]

The thing is, I feel like a spinning top out of control with the weight of the relationship on my shoulders.

I am fairly new at this and have been through several lessons and have practiced.  for example, I no longer will argue about things - but I used to!  I would defend myself to the death when I was accused of things that were not true.  It never improved anything.  Now I will state something once and that's it.

I just dont know how to get back to the light-hearted, fun relationship that we once had.  Can't we just laugh about things?

[Somewhere]

The thing is, I feel like a spinning top out of control with the weight of the relationship on my shoulders.

I am fairly new at this and have been through several lessons and have practiced.  for example, I no longer will argue about things - but I used to!  I would defend myself to the death when I was accused of things that were not true.  It never improved anything.  Now I will state something once and that's it.

Agreed.  The country proverb version is -- Never argue with a fool, it can become hard tell which of you are which.

Can't we just laugh about things?

I have figured out that "we" cannot. 

But I can any time I choose.

I just dont know how to get back to the light-hearted, fun relationship that we once had. 

But speaking deeper . . . the "we" you now have is NOT the "we" you once had.  Sorry.  I have come to sort of view this as a stroke.

[Foreverhopefull]

Sometimes all you can do is sit there and laugh... .  on the inside.

Sometimes their rant has no rime or reason in our view, but it's very important in theirs.

The adaptation phase is always the hardest, you worry about your own sanity, the state of your relationship (like Somewhere said... .  the old relationship is no more, but it doesn't mean that it can't be a "good" relationship).

The one thing you must remember is not to loose yourself in all of this.

[waverider]

The drama probably escalated because he was trying to project hiis drama, whatever was at its core on to you, and all he effectively got was a "whatever" reaction. This invalidates his drama, as you are not joining in, creating more frustration, upping the anti and trying another tact to make you the source of the "issue'  hence absolving himself of cause.

You did right, he left frustrated, rather than sucessfully handing the baggage to you so that you ended up frustrated and him absolved.

It had nothing to do with the TP, that was just the vehicle for his unfounded inner frustration that was building.

It is only by refusing to join in these dramas and leaving to work iyt by themselves that they are ever likey to decide to sort their issues out in a more appropriate way or even attempt any therapy. If you allow them to handball these things, then they will perceive they have no issues and are no different from you, as you are part of it.

[schwing]

Hi imaconfused and  

A couple of weeks ago, my bf came out of the bathroom to the living room where I was watching TV.  He declared that I don't even know how to put the TP roll on right.  The correct way is 'over'.

I responded by telling him if that's what you want, no problem I can do that.  It has never been a concern of mine, I am just a happy person to have TP within reach.

So he continued with berating me about how I don't care about things.  I tuned him out.  To me the discussion was over.  He told me what he wanted and I can do it, no problem - I mean really, that will take a nanosecond out of my life to ensure the paper is 'correct'.

but he wouldn't stop going on and on about how wrong I was... .  I continued watching TV.  It took about a half an hour, but he finally stopped.  Awe, the peace!

In my experience, when a person with BPD experiences an upsetting emotion, they might be inclined to "project" it upon us.  For example, there have been times that I found my uBPDmother came specifically looking for me for some unknown or unclear reason and bring up miscellaneous or random conversation... .  until she finds the right topic to provoke an emotion response out of me.  And when I finally react emotionally to that topic, she gets a pay-off: she gets to delude herself into believe that I am the emotional unstable person; she "projected" her upset emotions on me.

I would speculate that what happened with your bf was that he got in a mood and came looking for you in order to pick a fight.  Perhaps he was devaluing himself and decided it would be better to devalue you.  Now instead of *him* being the one who doesn't "care about things", who was always wrong about this or that, it's you.  You're the person who keeps putting on the toilet paper in the "incorrect" way.

Yesterday he put a new roll on.  And guess what - it was 'under'.  As I was sitting there I smile and turned it the right way.  I thought it was amusing.  So I go to him and in a funny light-hearted way, I told him he put the roll on wrong.  I was just teasing a bit trying to make him smile.  I honestly thought we both could laugh about it.

Didn't work out so well.

He goes into the bathroom, manhandles the tp, came back and announced that its now perfect - just the way I demanded it and off he goes on a rant about how I have to have everything perfect... .  

And funny enough, the next day he puts on the toilet paper which way?  Probably the way he normally does it: the "incorrect" way.  But he can't handle being the one who is devalued; it has to be you.  Now you're the one who always have to have it "perfect."  :)o you see that, these tendencies are actually his?

I wouldn't point this out to him though.  Understand that he's using these kinds of disordered coping mechanisms because he can't handle his emotions any other way;  there are therapies that might help him cope with his emotions differently (such as DBT) but he must be motivated to learn them.  :)o not expect to be able to reason him out of his mental disorder.

I didn't respond, but I know I had a puzzled look on my face.  Um, this wasn't my issue to begin with.

Last night before going to bed I am grabbing for a piece of TP when one side fell off the wall.  I know how to fix it with that little screw thing, but it was late so I left it for the morning.

Well, this morning he saw it off the wall and asked What the heck?  I told him if fell off last night.  He called me a liar and stormed off.

Really?  all this over something that he really doesn't even care about to begin with.

It *is* all over something he doesn't even care about.  The specific topic or subject is *just* the lightning rod.  The true source of his inexplicable emotions is his disorder.  Sometimes his disordered feelings will have a predictable source: such as a special occasion (Valentine's Day is coming up), or after feeling particularly close or intimate with you, or something else that caused him to remember something else that triggers his disordered feelings but he cannot face himself... .  and then he will look to you to be his emotional scapegoat.

I think it is a good policy to not willingly be a recipient of these kinds of emotional outbursts.  But I ask you to consider that even if you are just ignoring him, if that is not enough to protect yourself.  It is easy to ignore a stranger; on the other hand, it is hard to sit there and listen to a loved one, someone you trust and depend upon, cut into you, looking for the vulnerable nerve in order to provoke a response.  And remember, he only gets his pay-off if you react, so he is motivated to keep trying until you do react.  I wonder if it wouldn't be a better policy to simply go.  Tell him you love him but you will not sit by each time he has a tantrum.  Perhaps this will get him to consider that if you are not around to be the "cause", then maybe he needs to consider that the reason why he has this emotional outbursts have more to do with that is going on with him.

I just dont know how to get back to the light-hearted, fun relationship that we once had.  Can't we just laugh about things?

BPD is characterized by periods of "idealization" and "devaluation".  My understanding of BPD is that as our relationship becomes more "familial" to them, this triggers more and more of their disordered feelings (such as fear of abandonment).  It's hard for things *not* to get more familial and intimate as you spend more time with them.  Perhaps if you introduced more formality and distance in your relationship?  Not spend so much time together?  Make the time that you do spend together more focused on doing "light-hearted, fun" activities?

If he experiences his disordered feelings less, then I would expect him to have more occasion to idealize you.  Then again, how you establish that distance might inadvertently trigger the fear that you might leave him as well.  It is a balancing act.

Best wishes, Schwing

[Scarlet Phoenix]

If you think about, it may be fun to "Toilet Paper" the bed.  Or come into the room wrapped up in Toilet Paper, like a mummy, walking like an Egyptian and moaning

That just made me laugh out loud! I would have been funny Wouldn't have gone over so well, though  

Iamconfused, I think you handled it well. They will rage about one thing or another, and like the others above me have already said, it's not about the specific topic. Doesn't mean it's not frustrating for you. It really can be.

I just dont know how to get back to the light-hearted, fun relationship that we once had.  Can't we just laugh about things?

No



That was a bit short and brutal, but it really seems that in these relationships the funny banter has to come from them. I join in when my dBPDbf jokes around, but he rarely joins in when it's the other way around. And definitely not if it's about a subject he was frustrated about earlier. They don't have the same logic as us. They see things differently. They feel attacked and devalued.

[iamconfused]

Thank you, thank you for listening to me and giving me points to ponder.

I am still in the phase of stomping my feet (in my minds eye) and wanting this to make sense - almost like some sort of nightmare that I can simply wake up and things will be aligned.  I am starting to get that it won't make sense and there are things I can do to make it less severe.

I did get caught up into all this drama and lost a lot of myself, to the pint where I lost weight.  When I finally woke up and decided that somethings were wrong, I realized I was purposely disappearing.  I have tried to look inside to find answers as to why I am doing this to myself.

My bf and I have a business together and work from home.  We are together way too much.  I am lucky enough that I can take my work to any place with an internet connection.  So I am gone 1 day a week for now and plan to up it to 2 days soon, but it is slow process.

Maybe I need to understand how I could have allowed all this.  I allowed him to treat me in this unsettling way - and every time I allowed one thing, my boundaries took a back seat to the relationship and he would take it to the next level, so again my boundaries would shift, like a slide rule moving towards zero.

For the most part I have kept this a secret from most of my family and friends.  Like one that is being physically abused, I have given excuses for his behavior.  Although there is not physical abuse, I think that one day it's possible that it could go there.

Not getting bated into the circular arguments has made me feel better, but he is not happy with it.  He keeps pushing me but is learning that I simply will not do it anymore.  It seems he tries harder for that drama and his arguments just seems more and more illogical to me.

I really appreciate this forum where I can express my thoughts.  I also need any feedback.

[waverider]

Thank you, thank you for listening to me and giving me points to ponder.

I am still in the phase of stomping my feet (in my minds eye) and wanting this to make sense - almost like some sort of nightmare that I can simply wake up and things will be aligned.  I am starting to get that it won't make sense and there are things I can do to make it less severe.

I did get caught up into all this drama and lost a lot of myself, to the pint where I lost weight.  When I finally woke up and decided that somethings were wrong, I realized I was purposely disappearing.  I have tried to look inside to find answers as to why I am doing this to myself.

My bf and I have a business together and work from home.  We are together way too much.  I am lucky enough that I can take my work to any place with an internet connection.  So I am gone 1 day a week for now and plan to up it to 2 days soon, but it is slow process.

Maybe I need to understand how I could have allowed all this.  I allowed him to treat me in this unsettling way - and every time I allowed one thing, my boundaries took a back seat to the relationship and he would take it to the next level, so again my boundaries would shift, like a slide rule moving towards zero.

For the most part I have kept this a secret from most of my family and friends.  Like one that is being physically abused, I have given excuses for his behavior.  Although there is not physical abuse, I think that one day it's possible that it could go there.

Not getting bated into the circular arguments has made me feel better, but he is not happy with it.  He keeps pushing me but is learning that I simply will not do it anymore.  It seems he tries harder for that drama and his arguments just seems more and more illogical to me.

I really appreciate this forum where I can express my thoughts.  I also need any feedback.

Sounds like you are heading down the right track, and especially that you are aware of the moving goal posts when you compromise.