He offered me an agreement

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

We're separated.  He's out of the house.  We have kids.  He was very verbally abusive and constantly lied.  Now he's in therapy and wants to come back really badly.

He offered me an agreement in which he keeps getting counseling.  And stays at the house on weekends.  And he says I can kick him out again if I want.

It's partly tempting.  It's hard to be alone.  Occasionally hard to take care of the kids alone.  Divorce is expensive.

But I think it will take me years to trust him again, and years for him to fully change.  Just last weekend he did all kinds of controlling things that were hurtful, and lied about it.  And this is without him even living with me!  I can see why our separation is triggering these episodes.  But they could be triggered even if he comes back.

Letting him back in the house would make life a little easier in the short run, but it could also make it harder if in the end I still decide to get divorced.  He is going to get more enmeshed with the kids too.

I guess I have to continue on my path to divorce.  I just wish I had a crystal ball to see if he really could change.  But I am just emotionally exhausted from his lies, and will be that way for years.  I know what I have to do.  It's just that it's a shame.

[momtara]

We're separated.  He's out of the house.  We have kids.  He was very verbally abusive and constantly lied.  Now he's in therapy and wants to come back really badly.

He offered me an agreement in which he keeps getting counseling.  And stays at the house on weekends.  And he says I can kick him out again if I want.

It's partly tempting.  It's hard to be alone.  Occasionally hard to take care of the kids alone.  Divorce is expensive.

But I think it will take me years to trust him again, and years for him to fully change.  Just last weekend he did all kinds of controlling things that were hurtful, and lied about it.  And this is without him even living with me!  I can see why our separation is triggering these episodes.  But they could be triggered even if he comes back.

Letting him back in the house would make life a little easier in the short run, but it could also make it harder if in the end I still decide to get divorced.  He is going to get more enmeshed with the kids too.

I guess I have to continue on my path to divorce.  I just wish I had a crystal ball to see if he really could change.  But I am just emotionally exhausted from his lies, and will be that way for years.  I know what I have to do.  It's just that it's a shame.

[daze]

Hi MomTara ---

Now he's in therapy and wants to come back really badly.

Do you have any idea what his therapist thinks?  I can't remember, is he diagnosed?

It's interesting that he offered you an agreement.  I totally understand how you feel - worn out by it all and understanding the therapy will take a long time if he changes at all.  It does sound like the best course of action is to continue with the divorce.



Daze

[momtara]

Therapist asked if I could postpone the divorce so he could work with him more.  (Hubby says he won't be able to afford therapy if we get divorced.  I hope he stays in it anyway, for the kids' sake).

But therapist had no idea about BPD.  Only diagnosed anxiety.  If only it was that tsimple.  I told him what I thought. 

Haven't spoken with therapist again lately.  But H just keeps proving himself untrustworthy, despite what he wants.  Once you get burned enough times, it's hard to trust.

[daze]

Once you get burned enough times, it's hard to trust.

Yep, I can wholeheartedly identify.

Take care of you and your kids!

[crazylife]

I don't know if this comment will be considered moral ethical etc but is there any way you could keep an account of your perspective of the weekend etc and provide it to the therapist, or a therapist of your own who could share it. Seems if they were competent they would recognize the BPD behavior and also your perspective as what is happening to you would temper the stories he is sharing. Like the lying, rages, controlling etc. It would take some time but surely a couple of months a pattern would emerge. He would have to agree but seems like he would want to prove you are the "bad guy" here. Again, just a thought.

[momtara]

Yeah, maybe it's a good idea that his therapist find out what has been happening.  It can't hurt, since I have already talked to him once.

[elessar]

Awwww, I am so sad to read your story momtara. But you seem to be mighty strong who knows what to do and follow through. Don't we all wish we had a crystal ball? My biggest fear is that she will take what I have told her, get better, and live in that idealization phase forever with someone else... .  

You should definitely meet his therapist, alone, if you can. Because you have no idea what your husband might be telling that person. The few times my ex saw a therapist, she had concocted such an alternate reality about me... .   I had to take it all apart the only time we went together. Suffice it to say, it was the last time she ever went. Her lies were exposed.

[crazylife]

Just go in and present the truth from your perspective. I think when you dont try and make people see their behavior  by discussing them, by just say it from your POV the T will  appreciate your honesty and be able to tease out if there are inconsistancies in the 2 stories. Good luck... .   maybe when the therapist becomes enlightened you will see some changes in your spouse.

[daze]

Yes, I agree with CrazyLife.  If you describe the behavior without judgment, the T will probably be more receptive.  Give as many examples as you can.

It's not easy to talk with the SO's T.  Had to do it a couple of times in my first marriage.  The T has to be careful too with privacy and trust issues.  I get it.

[Clearmind]

Momtara, putting this agreement to the side for a moment.

A few things need to happen to reduce the conflict in any relationship. Are you up on the tools necessary to move forward? Seeking out therapy for you?

Have you heard of Therapeutic Separation?

[momtara]

The problem with a therapeutic divorce is ... .   there's no way to tell if he's really changed without him moving back in for a while.  And if he moves back in, it's too hard to get him back out if something goes wrong.

If we prolong this and I do decide to get divorced, I think we'll just go through all the hurt again that we're going through now.

I think it's better for the kids if we're apart.

[Clearmind]

Therapeutic separation provides you each with space and time to work on the yourselves to better the relationship.

In any case there comes a time where a decision needs to be made - and it sounds like you have made it.

How are you going with planning? How is your support network?

[momtara]

Well, I still have my doubts about my decision.  I have a decent support network and will do fine.  My biggest doubts are just about saying goodbye to a family in general.  I think deep inside, I am hoping that over a few years, hubby will get the right help and then he can come back.  But maybe that's stupid.

[Lady31]

Momtara,

I have thought long and hard about this same topic myself.  My H is out of the house now, and is not currently wanting to come back.  We are getting things in line to go forward with divorce.  When I kicked him out this time (had one previous separation & MANY serious spans of divorce talk while still living together) I thought this has to be IT.  (Due to the escalation of his behavior.)

I thought early on after this separation what it would need to look like for me to even consider a reconciliation after what happened that way I would be very clear and would not get sucked back in.  Mine was:

Long term counseling ON HIS PART - ALONE - HIS PROMPTING.

(At some point I would have access to sessions with his T alone.)

Him going back to church on his own.

Him staying consistant in these behaviors without any access to me in a dating situation at all for a long period of time.

Him openly admitting his behaviors to a male accountability partner in our church.

Him staying consistant in his emotions/decision of wanting me back, counseling, church attendance, treating me correctly, NO MORE VERBAL OR PHYSICAL ABUSE for a long stretch of time before I would consider DATING him again. 

If we ever reached the dating stage, seeing all these requirements continue consistantly after having access to me in a dating relationship for a long period of time before agreeing to moving back in together.

I have decided if he started to express a desire to reconcile before the divorce is finalized, then I would tell him these expectations on my end.  If he began to actively pursue them, then I would stop the divorce proceedings, but would not attempt ANY relationship with him for the time being other than occasional phone conversations.

Once he proved to be consistant, then would talk more frequently.  And then go forward as described above.

I said all that to say this.  If you are having some doubts and would like to see if things could work out, and he is actively trying to work on himself... .   perhaps you could take another route.  You don't HAVE to go right back into a relationship with him that is on the dating or living together level.

You can just tell him you will give it time to see if you are willing.

Key point here though is:  If you don't know what you need specifically from him / what it should look like for you to be willing to reconcile, you aren't clear if you are making the right decision.  Is there a way you can more clearly define what you would like to see happen in order for you to move back into the relationship that way you know what decision to make?

Also, once you have clarified this to yourself, if you are willing to give the relationship any chance, I think you should also spell these expectations out to him.

[bruceli]

As a whole they are not too good at keeping up with their "agreements".  Was just told last nite that she has the right to change the agreement at anytime!  And so the point of making it was? Silence.

[Clearmind]

Well, I still have my doubts about my decision.  I have a decent support network and will do fine.  My biggest doubts are just about saying goodbye to a family in general.  I think deep inside, I am hoping that over a few years, hubby will get the right help and then he can come back.  But maybe that's stupid.

Stupid No - Hopeful - Yes! I know that feeling Momtara.

You will know what to do when you are ready - being undecided isn't pleasant in itself. Often when we are undecided for a period of time we have one foot out the door and neglect to use the tools which can in fact help the relationship. Work on you too