She reached out. Self-respect.

[Elsegundo]

Just told me some niceties.  She noted that I didn't reply.  A few days later another one.  Said she needed me in her life.  I didn't reply.  That was a few days ago.

Our last interaction, a month ago, was when I needed something and she went silent.  Now, she needs soothing and is reaching out for that.  I don't want to be in a romantic r/s with her, and I don't think we can be friends.  She, unlike some folks' exs, does have two good friends, so I know she's capable of it in general, but don't think she can move me to that category (that can tough for everyone, not just pwBPD).

Even after she agreed she'd tell me when she needed space and not just go silent, she went silent.  And, like many folks note, she isn't really "there" for me.  That's what she's shown.  And, now, I'm finally feeling over things.  Living again, happily.  Dating.

There are lots of reasons not to communicate with her.  I can't even trust that if I text her I'll get a reply if she's too freaked or playing control games.  When I saw her texts, I was just irritated and shocked that she reached out.  I was tempted to say "it seems like you're upset. i can't be a supportive friend to you b/c during our last few interactions, i feel like my boundaries and needs weren't valued."  I feel like that takes care of me, shows self-respect.  Though so does NC.  And while I am thinking about this today for some reason, I now know that for someone wBPD, she may not be anymore.  Not sure if I should make a move. 

 

[glacier_glider]

Any agreement is always annulled.

Any rule is always broken.

Any promise is always broken.

Don't bother.

She does not care about this the way you do.

Her perception is completely different.

[Elsegundo]

Her perception is definitely different, good point.

I wonder, though, on some of the other points, these are still people we are talking about--isn't it overly simplistic to assume that every commitment will be broken b/c they have BPD?

[Wooddragon]

I don't think that my ex was capable of sticking to commitments once he thought his interests or desires lay elsewhere. From things he & others have told me, I think he has cheated on every relationship he has had. His impulsiveness and lack of integrity mean that expecting a lasting commitment from him would be as realistic as expecting an ongoing " commitment" from the 3yo which we are told is their emotional & moral equivalent.

Also I believe that mine took a kind of sadistic satisfaction in "getting away" with manipulating me.  Actually I'm hating him at the moment for that.

[tailspin]

You are in a good place Elsegundo,

Once we figure out their rules... .  the game isn't fun anymore.  It's one sided and we will always lose unless and until we take back the power to determine our own fate by refusing to participate.  It is at this exact moment in time when the power shifts to us and our reward is freedom.

Wooddragon, I can also see in hindsight where my ex took a perverse satisfaction when I believed his lies and fell for his manipulations.  This got me stuck and pissed me off for a long time until I realized this is all on him; he owns his behaviors, not me.  I am working on realizing, recognizing, and calling out bad behavior for what it is and when it happens.

I think some of this is fallout from their FOO.  I imagine the environment for manipulation and lies was pretty intense and I also imagine there was a type of competition to see who could get away with the most.  Sad, but there it is. 

tailspin

[glacier_glider]

Her perception is definitely different, good point.

I wonder, though, on some of the other points, these are still people we are talking about--isn't it overly simplistic to assume that every commitment will be broken b/c they have BPD?

I haven't seen otherwise, so I assume "yes".

In my situation, every single promise, rule and commitment was broken.

That includes engagement.

[whatarideout]

Not sure if I should make a move. 

yes, here it is... .  

walk away. that's the move.

There are lots of reasons not to communicate with her. 

i'll give you one,

she suffers from a thought disorder. that's the best reason you'll ever need.

here's the deal,

you are interacting with someone who doesn't work with reality. a person with BPD lives in fantasy. this is a person who splits their thoughts into two separate identities. good and bad. that's it. there is no middle ground. their whole life, they seek this "good" feeling in order to survive.

in the beginning of a relationship, she seeks and receives this "good" feeling through rescue and mirroring. this good feeling is of such importance, she puts forth any effort to keep the reward constant and maintain the good. she will do whatever it takes to cling and keep you from doing what she fears the most, abandoning her.

when these efforts no longer have an effect on you or she "perceives" you as becoming unhappy in any sort of way, this triggers the other identity she created, the bad one. this is the one that feels shame and worthlessness. you are now seen as someone who is withdrawing and are no longer providing her with that good feeling she desperately needs. her thought disorder is you have now abandoned her.

her goal now is to offset the feeling of abandonment and the anxiety that comes with those thoughts. she does this by finding a new player that will give her the same "good" feelings you did at the beginning. the cycle repeats.

this is BPD in a nutshell. but you get the gist of it.

the point is, walking away is the best move you can ever make when dealing with BPD. you are not dealing with logic. you are not dealing with reality. you are dealing with disorder. you will never get what you want. you can't convince a disordered mind to see it your way or think with common sense. she will never have a lightbulb moment because you were able to explain a situation so brilliantly it changed her perspective. she has one perspective, disordered.

if you can grasp and fully understand the workings of a BPD, you would no longer waste your time. you come to realize there is zero chance of making it work. you can't take a disordered mind and rational mind, put them "together" and create a healthy relationship. impossible.

just on the attempt of combining the words disordered and rational spells dysfunction. they will never be in harmony together, ever.

you can take any situation or action she demonstrates and i could tell you the future of that relationship with one hundred percent accuracy... .  

it wont work!

the only relationship you need to figure out or where to move next, is the one you have with yourself. fix that one before trying to make it work with someone else. especially one that involves a disorder.

she's ill. you don't have the antidote.



 

[paperlung]

Not sure if I should make a move. 

yes, here it is... .  

walk away. that's the move.

There are lots of reasons not to communicate with her. 

i'll give you one,

she suffers from a thought disorder. that's the best reason you'll ever need.

here's the deal,

you are interacting with someone who doesn't work with reality. a person with BPD lives in fantasy. this is a person who splits their thoughts into two separate identities. good and bad. that's it. there is no middle ground. their whole life, they seek this "good" feeling in order to survive.

in the beginning of a relationship, she seeks and receives this "good" feeling through rescue and mirroring. this good feeling is of such importance, she puts forth any effort to keep the reward constant and maintain the good. she will do whatever it takes to cling and keep you from doing what she fears the most, abandoning her.

when these efforts no longer have an effect on you or she "perceives" you as becoming unhappy in any sort of way, this triggers the other identity she created, the bad one. this is the one that feels shame and worthlessness. you are now seen as someone who is withdrawing and are no longer providing her with that good feeling she desperately needs. her thought disorder is you have now abandoned her.

her goal now is to offset the feeling of abandonment and the anxiety that comes with those thoughts. she does this by finding a new player that will give her the same "good" feelings you did at the beginning. the cycle repeats.

this is BPD in a nutshell. but you get the gist of it.

the point is, walking away is the best move you can ever make when dealing with BPD. you are not dealing with logic. you are not dealing with reality. you are dealing with disorder. you will never get what you want. you can't convince a disordered mind to see it your way or think with common sense. she will never have a lightbulb moment because you were able to explain a situation so brilliantly it changed her perspective. she has one perspective, disordered.

if you can grasp and fully understand the workings of a BPD, you would no longer waste your time. you come to realize there is zero chance of making it work. you can't take a disordered mind and rational mind, put them "together" and create a healthy relationship. impossible.

just on the attempt of combining the words disordered and rational spells dysfunction. they will never be in harmony together, ever.

you can take any situation or action she demonstrates and i could tell you the future of that relationship with one hundred percent accuracy... .  

it wont work!

the only relationship you need to figure out or where to move next, is the one you have with yourself. fix that one before trying to make it work with someone else. especially one that involves a disorder.

she's ill. you don't have the antidote.

Was reading through older threads and found this beauty of a post. You hit the nail on the head, whatarideout. That is exactly how my relationship with my ex-girlfriend played out.

[mitchell16]

whatarideout, thats was awesome. that really hit home for me and such a honest statement. made alot of sense. thank you.

[Hurt llama]

Not sure if I should make a move. 

yes, here it is... .  

walk away. that's the move.

There are lots of reasons not to communicate with her. 

i'll give you one,

she suffers from a thought disorder. that's the best reason you'll ever need.

here's the deal,

you are interacting with someone who doesn't work with reality. a person with BPD lives in fantasy. this is a person who splits their thoughts into two separate identities. good and bad. that's it. there is no middle ground. their whole life, they seek this "good" feeling in order to survive.

in the beginning of a relationship, she seeks and receives this "good" feeling through rescue and mirroring. this good feeling is of such importance, she puts forth any effort to keep the reward constant and maintain the good. she will do whatever it takes to cling and keep you from doing what she fears the most, abandoning her.

when these efforts no longer have an effect on you or she "perceives" you as becoming unhappy in any sort of way, this triggers the other identity she created, the bad one. this is the one that feels shame and worthlessness. you are now seen as someone who is withdrawing and are no longer providing her with that good feeling she desperately needs. her thought disorder is you have now abandoned her.

her goal now is to offset the feeling of abandonment and the anxiety that comes with those thoughts. she does this by finding a new player that will give her the same "good" feelings you did at the beginning. the cycle repeats.

this is BPD in a nutshell. but you get the gist of it.

the point is, walking away is the best move you can ever make when dealing with BPD. you are not dealing with logic. you are not dealing with reality. you are dealing with disorder. you will never get what you want. you can't convince a disordered mind to see it your way or think with common sense. she will never have a lightbulb moment because you were able to explain a situation so brilliantly it changed her perspective. she has one perspective, disordered.

if you can grasp and fully understand the workings of a BPD, you would no longer waste your time. you come to realize there is zero chance of making it work. you can't take a disordered mind and rational mind, put them "together" and create a healthy relationship. impossible.

just on the attempt of combining the words disordered and rational spells dysfunction. they will never be in harmony together, ever.

you can take any situation or action she demonstrates and i could tell you the future of that relationship with one hundred percent accuracy... .  

it wont work!

the only relationship you need to figure out or where to move next, is the one you have with yourself. fix that one before trying to make it work with someone else. especially one that involves a disorder.

she's ill. you don't have the antidote.

wow. just wow.

incredibly laid out and very helpful... well done!

[laelle]

Not sure if I should make a move. 

yes, here it is... .  

walk away. that's the move.

There are lots of reasons not to communicate with her. 

i'll give you one,

she suffers from a thought disorder. that's the best reason you'll ever need.

here's the deal,

you are interacting with someone who doesn't work with reality. a person with BPD lives in fantasy. this is a person who splits their thoughts into two separate identities. good and bad. that's it. there is no middle ground. their whole life, they seek this "good" feeling in order to survive.

in the beginning of a relationship, she seeks and receives this "good" feeling through rescue and mirroring. this good feeling is of such importance, she puts forth any effort to keep the reward constant and maintain the good. she will do whatever it takes to cling and keep you from doing what she fears the most, abandoning her.

when these efforts no longer have an effect on you or she "perceives" you as becoming unhappy in any sort of way, this triggers the other identity she created, the bad one. this is the one that feels shame and worthlessness. you are now seen as someone who is withdrawing and are no longer providing her with that good feeling she desperately needs. her thought disorder is you have now abandoned her.

her goal now is to offset the feeling of abandonment and the anxiety that comes with those thoughts. she does this by finding a new player that will give her the same "good" feelings you did at the beginning. the cycle repeats.

this is BPD in a nutshell. but you get the gist of it.

the point is, walking away is the best move you can ever make when dealing with BPD. you are not dealing with logic. you are not dealing with reality. you are dealing with disorder. you will never get what you want. you can't convince a disordered mind to see it your way or think with common sense. she will never have a lightbulb moment because you were able to explain a situation so brilliantly it changed her perspective. she has one perspective, disordered.

if you can grasp and fully understand the workings of a BPD, you would no longer waste your time. you come to realize there is zero chance of making it work. you can't take a disordered mind and rational mind, put them "together" and create a healthy relationship. impossible.

just on the attempt of combining the words disordered and rational spells dysfunction. they will never be in harmony together, ever.

you can take any situation or action she demonstrates and i could tell you the future of that relationship with one hundred percent accuracy... .  

it wont work!

the only relationship you need to figure out or where to move next, is the one you have with yourself. fix that one before trying to make it work with someone else. especially one that involves a disorder.

she's ill. you don't have the antidote.

Copy pasted to my desktop.  Thank you Whatarideout