Intimacy with BPDs

[Allotrion]

I can't stop giving this forum enough compliments.  I'll explain.

I have been debating non-stop since I signed up on this forum whether or not I could/should ask the following statement/question.  "I don't want to have sex with my uBPDw.  Is there something wrong with me?".  It made me feel ashamed.  Especially since I'm a man, and men of course are non-stop libido trains, right?  /sarcasm

Well, I ran a search and found a very old thread (circa 2006), about this same exact topic.  The responses were very supportive so I'd like to rekindle the fire (pun intended). 

My r/s with uBPDw is very cold.  She complains that I don't want her, don't romance her, don't find her attractive, etc, etc.  I've tried explaining to her in the past, before I understood about BPD that there's only so many insults I can take before my self-esteem and my passion for her are ground into dust.  She doesn't seem to understand how hurtful she is.  I understand now that it's unintentional and part of the BPD but the end result is the same.  As attractive as she is, I just cannot be intimate with her.  The times I've tried to open up to her she uses my vulnerabilities to hurt me. 

She is a very sexual person.  She loves sex but the connection is not there.  I feel like I’m in a catch-22.  We fight because we don’t have enough sex.  We don’t have enough sex because we fight so much.  She doesn’t initiate romance because she expects the MAN to.  I don’t initiate romance because I’m  afraid/bitter/angry/resentful…  She has been claiming for years that I MUST be gay.  There was a time where I even questioned myself, “well, am I?”.  No, I’m pretty sure I’m not.   

So I’d like to ask for similar stories from you all.  How common is this to relationships with pwBPD?

And since I’m posting this on the Staying: board, what can be done to rekindle the passion with a pwBPD?  I’m still trying to make this relationship work for the kids, so I may as well get some advice.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[briefcase]

Well, you certainly aren't the only one with this issue.  I've seen it come up on the boards quite a few times.  

And, its pretty understanable. It's hard to be attracted to someone who you feel is abusive to you.  It's unfortunate, but not surprising, that your attempts to discuss this with her have not worked out well.  

The lack of sex is simply a symptom of a much larger relationship problem.  You control one half of the relationship dynamic.  It's not everything, but it's quite a lot.  Right now, you probably need to work on taking care of yourself and gaining strength.  Also, work on some loving detachment from her (think of it is keeping some of the nastier things she says in perspective - the twisted, frantic thoughts, not "reality).  

Also, read the Lessons here.  Keep posting.  Ask questions.  I'm sure you'll get some other good feed back from the members here!

It's a journey and will take some time.

[Allotrion]

Thanks briefcase.  I've been with uBPDw for 14 years.  I never lived the bachelor's life so I never understood that my r/s with uBPDw was broken.  I always excused it as "intimacy is bound to decrease as the relationship goes on". 

It is only now that I'm learning how f****d up my relationship is. 

A year or so ago my uBPDw and I went to couples therapy with a T she chose.  This lasted about 3-4 sessions.  My spidey sense was screaming at me from the moment I sat down with this T.  The first session went well, not much of substance was discussed.  But the 2nd-4th sessions it quickly turned to all the things I did wrong.  I refused to go back and that's been the end of couple's therapy.

[CodependentHusband]

Intimacy has been a big issue in my r/s with my BPD wife too. I quit initiating all together, not because I'm not attracted to her, or because I don't have the desire, but because she rejected me so many times, I had to do something to stop the chaos that sex seemed to cause. Now, frequency varies from once a month to, if I'm really lucky, 4 times a month. And, well, I'm okay with that for now. It's not what I wanted, but it's better than all the arguments.

My situation sounds kind of the opposite of yours. Sorry for what you are going through, but, yes, enough people have reported issues with sex and intimacy that I think that if there isn't a direct link between sex and BPD, that the BPD tends to aggravate the situation.

Wish I had some answers for you on this.

[whatathing]

This is an interesting topic to me, because I felt something like that with my uBPDexgf. On one hand, she said she couldn´t feel pleasure, she didn´t know how it was, although she got very much carried away and I could tell she liked it just as I did, when we were at it. She used sex to find out if there was something wrong with her, because she was afraid that she couldn´t feel nothing, it scared her a lot. And then she felt bad for having done it because of that, like it was a sin.

On the other hand, for me, it was difficult also to feel loose and involved, even attracted, and this made me very upset, I couldn´t understand how I liked her so much and was so in love, and at the same time feeling some kind of absence in all of it. I doubted if I was forcing this r/s, only because I wanted to be real, but maybe it wasn´t, and I spent much time thinking about that, trying to understand what was wrong. But I think that this absence I felt was because of the emotional avoidance and lack of reciprocity that she had. It was like she killed the spark by not being able to really appreciate and be in it totally, it was like some fuse was disconected in her, and that affected my physical attraction too. And I felt her tension and her emotional avoidance, and it affected me. I think it has to do with that, but I really felt like there was some kind of paradox in the way I felt about her, and something that was lacking, physically and emotionally.

[eldee2100]

It's push pull with my uBPDw. She pushes away when I initiate, then pulls me back in when I give up for a bit. She complains I don't initiate, but insults me with "that's all you want from me." When we do enter into it, there is always a reminder that I'm not doing enough or making her feel special. Sometimes it derails it, sometimes it doesn't. Depends on my JADE skills at the time... .  

We have sex six times a month on average, which isn't enough for me, but beats the hell out of stories I've heard from others.

The one thing I've found is that she really doesn't get the fact that she is mentally ill. She raged yesterday and told me I was worthless, today she was sweet and kind and amorous. But I don't think she even knows the difference. She is only paying attention to her feelings and the voice in her head. Nothing else matters.

I've tried everything, but these boards always bring me back to a fact. I can only control me... .   and I have to... .  

We've got kids. I'd been gone years ago, but I'm never leaving them to live with her. And I don't have a crystal ball to know what the judge would do when the custody fight came... .   I do love her, but she has crushed me so many times, I can't believe it will ever be any better.

I'll enjoy it will it persists... .  

[Allotrion]

This is an interesting topic to me, because I felt something like that with my uBPDexgf. On one hand, she said she couldn´t feel pleasure, she didn´t know how it was, although she got very much carried away and I could tell she liked it just as I did, when we were at it. She used sex to find out if there was something wrong with her, because she was afraid that she couldn´t feel nothing, it scared her a lot. And then she felt bad for having done it because of that, like it was a sin.

On the other hand, for me, it was difficult also to feel loose and involved, even attracted, and this made me very upset, I couldn´t understand how I liked her so much and was so in love, and at the same time feeling some kind of absence in all of it. I doubted if I was forcing this r/s, only because I wanted to be real, but maybe it wasn´t, and I spent much time thinking about that, trying to understand what was wrong. But I think that this absence I felt was because of the emotional avoidance and lack of reciprocity that she had. It was like she killed the spark by not being able to really appreciate and be in it totally, it was like some fuse was disconected in her, and that affected my physical attraction too. And I felt her tension and her emotional avoidance, and it affected me. I think it has to do with that, but I really felt like there was some kind of paradox in the way I felt about her, and something that was lacking, physically and emotionally.

Whatathing, I find your post extremely interesting and thought provoking.  I’ve been rereading your post because there’s something very similar between your pwBPD and my pwBPD just beneath the surface.  My pwBPD also uses sex to “feel” something.  It’s also the only time she ever lets her guard down.  She is very submissive during sex, which is a complete 180 degree change from her usual demanding, in charge, take no prisoner attitude.  She also uses alcohol to “feel” but that usually leads into too much “feeling and thinking” which is when she cannot control the raging.  

I can also relate to your feelings as described in the second paragraph.  Thanks for sharing.

It's push pull with my uBPDw. She pushes away when I initiate, then pulls me back in when I give up for a bit. She complains I don't initiate, but insults me with "that's all you want from me." When we do enter into it, there is always a reminder that I'm not doing enough or making her feel special. Sometimes it derails it, sometimes it doesn't. Depends on my JADE skills at the time... .    

We have sex six times a month on average, which isn't enough for me, but beats the hell out of stories I've heard from others.

The one thing I've found is that she really doesn't get the fact that she is mentally ill. She raged yesterday and told me I was worthless, today she was sweet and kind and amorous. But I don't think she even knows the difference. She is only paying attention to her feelings and the voice in her head. Nothing else matters.

I've tried everything, but these boards always bring me back to a fact. I can only control me... .    and I have to... .    

We've got kids. I'd been gone years ago, but I'm never leaving them to live with her. And I don't have a crystal ball to know what the judge would do when the custody fight came... .    I do love her, but she has crushed me so many times, I can't believe it will ever be any better.

I'll enjoy it will it persists... .    

Eldee2100, it seems like you feel stuck in the relationship because of the kids.  I feel the same way and it’s not a good place to be in.  It seems like you have better coping mechanisms than I do at this point.  I’m just learning how to take care of me and distance myself from the insults.  I still take them way too personally but at least they don’t cut as deep because I can tell myself that it’s the BPD talking.

Thank you all for your input into this topic.  It makes me feel like I'm not alone in this struggle.