Potential recycling or me just over thinking

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

What's my read in it?

Hmmmm,  I believe it's because she got jealous that I was talking to another woman. This in her mind means that in am moving on which would of triggered abandonment fears. But, what's the reasoning behind her snide remarks such as I still find you attractive, wanted to engage you, blaming herself for a lot of the issues, etc. If she couldn't see these issues before than where on earth did this enlightenment come now.

Why would someone want to test my devotion and commitment if they made it 110 percent clear they didn't want me when she broke up with me and then changed her number and painted me black... .  

Whereisthezen:

You've put me in a corner with those questions haha. A 2 year relationship was finished with zero closure. From being obsessed with me to literally in a split second deleting me out of her life. Even though it's been over a year since the breakup there's been am emptiness that has surrounded me. Maybe the lack of closure at the time. Now that I've got some questions answered by her and seeing her ex after me was an absolute idiot and not in my league haha I feel better about myself. I lost a lot of self confidence after the breakup and went through a minor phase of depression. Now though after getting these questions answered by her there is an element in me that misses her physically and emotionally BUT I really can't be arsed to be back in that lunacy of a relationship ever again.



Question I've got to ask:

How would I communicate with her if I wanted to date her again?

I know how to deal with it if I didn't want to speak to her. Simply go NC

Thanks in advance

[jeffrey12]

What's my read in it?

Hmmmm,  I believe it's because she got jealous that I was talking to another woman. This in her mind means that in am moving on which would of triggered abandonment fears. But, what's the reasoning behind her snide remarks such as I still find you attractive, wanted to engage you, blaming herself for a lot of the issues, etc. If she couldn't see these issues before than where on earth did this enlightenment come now.

Why would someone want to test my devotion and commitment if they made it 110 percent clear they didn't want me when she broke up with me and then changed her number and painted me black... .  

Whereisthezen:

You've put me in a corner with those questions haha. A 2 year relationship was finished with zero closure. From being obsessed with me to literally in a split second deleting me out of her life. Even though it's been over a year since the breakup there's been am emptiness that has surrounded me. Maybe the lack of closure at the time. Now that I've got some questions answered by her and seeing her ex after me was an absolute idiot and not in my league haha I feel better about myself. I lost a lot of self confidence after the breakup and went through a minor phase of depression. Now though after getting these questions answered by her there is an element in me that misses her physically and emotionally BUT I really can't be arsed to be back in that lunacy of a relationship ever again.



Question I've got to ask:

How would I communicate with her if I wanted to date her again?

I know how to deal with it if I didn't want to speak to her. Simply go NC

Thanks in advance

[tuum est61]

But, what's the reasoning behind her snide remarks such as I still find you attractive, wanted to engage you, blaming herself for a lot of the issues, etc. If she couldn't see these issues before than where on earth did this enlightenment come now.

Why would someone want to test my devotion and commitment if they made it 110 percent clear they didn't want me when she broke up with me and then changed her number and painted me black... .  

She's a person with BPD Jeff! One of my biggest challenges re staying with my W is dealing with the ongoing daily snide remarks.  It's a defense mechanism for them. It won't change.

How would I communicate with her if I wanted to date her again?

I think you provided the answer to your own question right before you asked it Jeff.  

BUT I really can't be arsed to be back in that lunacy of a relationship ever again.

I know how to deal with it if I didn't want to speak to her. Simply go NC

There's a lot of opinion out there re No Contact Jeff.  My opinion is that it is something that has to evolve, not decided in advance.  NC seems to be like a Fad diet; you can lose the weight (in this case about a 120lbs?) but it all comes back if you don't change your lifestyle.  

In this case you need to change how you communicate if and when there's contact again. As I said you did reasonably well with the pill episode.  Whereizthezen gave you some words for email. Those might work. You could also be prepared to validate - i.e. with the pill episode you could have said "I know how important those pills are to you." "yeah, I can see that it's going to be difficult for you to get to the CVS" and if you want to, make it more of a SET piece by adding "yeah, doing things for each other is what people in a relationship do." And of course, DON'T get the pills this time. 

Will she find this a bit patronizing? Most likely.  :)oes it show concern for her situation given it is likely you are actually concerned for her well being? I think so. Remember, you are trying to make yourself feel better about all that has happened.  Going NC can make you feel pretty bad.  Work at changing your communication and responses rather than just eliminate it.  

Again - lots of opinion out there about NC.  NC is fine if you've managed to detach.  If you haven't, try some validation to ease you into it - and maintain your boundaries.  

[Empathy101]

Jeff... . Jeff... . Jeff

Be careful my friend. I cannot count how many potential relationships my exBPD ruined BEFORE we ever dated (and while she was with someone else!) If it was some cute girl working at the mall in a different city and she knew I was going there to see this girl, my ex would actually leave work early and call me that she wanted to meet up for lunch/shopping - thus *blocking. Months after she left me and ran into the arms of another guy, she made sure to get a distant friend of hers to stop talking to me after seeing some pictures of us together online. Literally, this girl has never spoken to me again - despite us having arranged to go out again! LOL

BPD's have abandonment issues and engage in magical thinking. There is nothing more magical than thinking you can still have a relationship with someone you deeply hurt - and without accepting full responsibility (which includes accepting your issues and actively engaging in therapy to correct them). Additionally, even when they abandon you, there is still this need, want and desire for them to feel as though you are not completely out of their life. They must have that to avoid feeling as though they will be alone. We can label it things like a safety net, recycling or something simplistic but in truth it's very complex and ties into how the disorder works. Does it mean it's manipulation? Not necessarily. Does it mean they do care about you? Not necessarily. Often they do care and aren't consciously trying to manipulate but it will typically feel that way in the end. These are still troubled souls who haven't learned appropriate and mature ways to cope with their emotions - and it is very difficult for them to learn to do that.

So, knowing those things, is it a shock that a BPDex would suddenly contact you (or anyone else they dated) upon learning information which suggests you've moved on and may be permanently out of their life? No! It makes perfect sense, doesn't it? It's completely understandable given the issues they struggle with. However, we have to remember that those issues are still there and the reason their behavior changed is only because the situation changed that it triggered abandonment within them. The apologies are often sincere in that moment. Most BPD's do know they hurt people they cared about. Most feel awful because of it and the self-loathing and shame from that feeds the disorder even more. But you have to remember: The moment they feel you are secured and/or they feel too attached, you'll be pushed away again. That pattern will remain until they are in recovery.

You have not healed from the previous relationship with her and it feels like you don't fully understand the relationship dynamic surrounding this disorder. That concerns me greatly because if you were to re-engage your ex, when she inevitably pushes you away again, I worry that you will be further traumatized by that invalidating act.

I have not been with my exBPD for 19 months or so? I've gone out with plenty of women but I still have a knee-jerk reaction to flee the moment I sense or see any emotional neediness in them. If I see insecurity or anything I now recognize as a warning sign I ignored with my ex, I instantly hit abort!

I think you should consider avoiding one-nighters. I don't feel those are ever helpful. That's typically about void-filling and avoiding intimacy and I assume what you really want is a person with whom you can have true intimacy while feeling secure and respected? Those people are out there (albeit difficult to find!). Don't screw up your path by misunderstanding what is occurring with your BPDex. If you truly want to consider the possibility of a relationship with her and she's attempting to make it happen, set a minimum amount of therapy she will need before you can pursue it. If she complies with that, you two might have a chance. Otherwise you're just going to scratch the scabs off your still sore wounds.

I would go back to NC, continue working on your healing and being open to finding someone who can offer you the healthy relationship you deserve. And I wouldn't hesitate telling a potential partner about what you've been through. If they're decent, understanding people, they'll understand the need to move slow and careful - which should help you see that they are different than the type who hurt you.

[jeffrey12]

Hey guys,

May the confusion begin. So for the past couple of weeks I've bee in contact  with the ex spending time together.

We've been touchy together, massaging each other (in between the massage she says she can't do it anymore because it's turning her on), says that she still have feelings for me and cares but can't allow anything to happen for her own sanity. No kissing. But on the other hand she will say things like I'm the best looking ex she's had.

Anyhow, after soon good times I randomly get a message asking me that she wants to go away to a country that I've been to etc. I answer the question explaining  the good places to go etc. She then goes off on one saying that I've lied to her saying I said that I  was house bound for over a year due to the break up (never said this what I did say was that I was distraught when we broke up). She then went off on one saying she broke up with me because I'm a liar and ignition lied about this then I lied about things in our relationship,  she then went on about something concerning a pic of me on a friends profile and 2 women commenting on it with them saying 'my favourite boy Jeff' and 'look after my god brother' these were written by a friend and a god sister after the relationship. She said she hated me, hates my culture and she's glad to have broken up with me. So I stayed quiet and said this was all not true and I've done nothing wrong and can't justify her logic and reaction... .

The next day I get a message apologising for everything she said and how she was wrong to say what she said and that she has no right to question me and that she's ashamed in herself and this is not the person she is anymore.

Since that day I have sensed she's been a bit offish. We are exchanging messages as normal but I just sensed something has changed. So I pull away to give her space and she randomly messages me saying she has a pain and she thinks it's a brain tumour etc which is clearly isn't. She's probably the only person I know who self doctors herself and comes up with different illnesses she has everyday

I'm really confused.

Input would be greatly appreciated guys and girls 

[oletimefeelin]

It's a game to be with a borderline woman, Jeff.  You need to act distant not just wait around for her to dictate the physical intimacy.  That never works.  She'll want you more the less you appear to care. 

The freak outs etc you need to accept if you want to be with her.  You shouldn't be surprised by these at this stage in the game.       

[babyducks]

She is attempting to get you to Justify, Argue, Defend or Explain yourself.  This gives her the control of the conversation.

Its an manipulation technique to re engage you without taking responsibility for herself.  

Oh My Goodness, so that's what all those circular conversations were about?   every time we had a conversation about 'our issues' I ended up more confused and baffled then ever.   And feeling like I had just been battered with verbal battering ram.  a couple of our "fix this relationship" talks ended up with me curled up in a fetal position on the sofa with my arms wrapped around my head.  I think I was trying to make the words stop and hold together my psyche which felt like it was under assault.

[jeffrey12]

It's a game to be with a borderline woman, Jeff.  You need to act distant not just wait around for her to dictate the physical intimacy.  That never works.  She'll want you more the less you appear to care. 

The freak outs etc you need to accept if you want to be with her.  You shouldn't be surprised by these at this stage in the game.       

Haha it's more than a game. What do you mean by acting distant? Can you forward me to any threads that i might be able to get some info... .

This time it's harder cause I can forsee the events but I would say my issue is with how Ideal with iit . I mean she'll have her jealous moment and go off on one and I'll be able to semi deal with it but it's the rebound effect after that confuses me.

[oletimefeelin]

Jeff,

Borderlines are ruled by their twin fears of abandonment and the same time engulfment.  This is the essence of the push-pull that people write so much about on this web site.  When you get too close, they will eventually push you away.  You may not think you aren't even doing this, but remember you are right back in there.  You've seen her at her worst and she recognizes fully that you came back for more.

You can't crowd her.  Live your own life.  Do not drop everything to cater to her every whim.  She can't always feel like she has you on a string.  There will have to be some challenge for her.  Part of that challenge is reeling you back in.  So when I say be distant this is the dynamic I am referring to.  When you are heavy petting with her or whatever, pull back and so on. 

As I am sure you know, this sort of dynamic repeating in perpetuity is hardly the bedrock of a healthy relationship.     

[tuum est61]

It's a game to be with a borderline woman, Jeff.  You need to act distant not just wait around for her to dictate the physical intimacy.  That never works.  She'll want you more the less you appear to care. 

The freak outs etc you need to accept if you want to be with her.  You shouldn't be surprised by these at this stage in the game.       

Haha it's more than a game. What do you mean by acting distant? Can you forward me to any threads that i might be able to get some info... .

This time it's harder cause I can forsee the events but I would say my issue is with how Ideal with iit . I mean she'll have her jealous moment and go off on one and I'll be able to semi deal with it but it's the rebound effect after that confuses me.

Oletimefeelin has been providing excellent analysis and advice Jeff. 

Through your own admission in bold above, you recognize your role in this situation.  Since she won't change, what will you do to change?  Hint - everyone here has been giving you suggestions... .  

[jeffrey12]

I'm trying in my side to rid myself of that codependancy I have to am extent. It's hard though when I change a profile pic on a phone app chat thing I have for contacts on my phone and she says 'oo you like a picture don't you. Is that how you pull other women'

Why comments like that when my intentions are clearly not that and secondly she pushes and pulls me. Like now we'll initiate contact together and speak then she'll give it the indifferent approach all of a sudden then throw in some sarcastic remarks like above.

When you say distant does it mean not message her at all and ignore her or just act in different with the odd "How's your day going" message.

Thanks for your advice. I'm kinda getting their controlling myself and reading the situations it's just acting appropriately to the scenario that I'm having trouble with

Thanks again peeps. Without the help from this forum I'd prob be all over the place!

[tuum est61]

I'm trying in my side to rid myself of that codependancy I have to am extent. It's hard though when I change a profile pic on a phone app chat thing I have for contacts on my phone and she says 'oo you like a picture don't you. Is that how you pull other women'

Thanks again peeps. Without the help from this forum I'd prob be all over the place!

If she says that about your phone, then don't let her see your phone.  It took me a while to get that my W would never be able to shed her fears and need for control regarding my contacts.  So my phone is locked - as is hers. 

That's one change to make Jeff... .  a fairly small one but likely to create a lot of angst for her.  That will lessen in time and you have made the situation better.  Realize that as you make changes, things may in fact get worse for awhile - the dark before the dawn but it pays off in a peace of mind you may actually be surprised by.