I have a question

[benny2]

I understand that pwBPD have a deep fear of engolfment and the closer you get to them the more they push you away. I have been there so many times with my pwBPD, but my question is, if they do this to everyone they are in a relationship with, then how could he have been married twice? He obviously was able to make a comittment with them, but he can't seem to with me. I just don't it. I am completely different from them. I feel I am more put together and attractive. What is it about me that he can't comitt but feels he has to keep me in his life?

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RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[123Phoebe]

Hi benny,

It might not have anything to do with BPD.  He may have had a terrible time while in the marriages and doesn't want to go through it again, risking another divorce.  He might equate suffering with marriage.  Nothing to do with you at all.  Just the idea of that big of a commitment might send him running.  I know that I'm a little gun shy to get married again.  That horrible feeling of being trapped in an awful marriage?  Yuck, once was enough

[bruceli]

I understand that pwBPD have a deep fear of engolfment and the closer you get to them the more they push you away. I have been there so many times with my pwBPD, but my question is, if they do this to everyone they are in a relationship with, then how could he have been married twice? He obviously was able to make a comittment with them, but he can't seem to with me. I just don't it. I am completely different from them. I feel I am more put together and attractive. What is it about me that he can't comitt but feels he has to keep me in his life?

The ultimate rush of the push/pull... .  BPDw was the one who brought up marriage all the time.  Would actually raise her hand and point at her finger and say when is this coming.  Within 3 weeks after I proposed, the I don't know if this is what I want speechs began... .  

[benny2]

burceli, that sounds very typical.

[benny2]

123phoebe, that is what he explains to me. He is afraid to comitt again. Both his ex's took everything he had and he had to start over both times. I understand that totally, but I am not them and I have explained to him that its not fair to punish me for what they did. I am nothing like them and would never take anything away from him.

[123Phoebe]

I understand that it feels like punishment to you.  His fears have nothing to do with you personally; he'd probably like to feel free enough to love you wholeheartedly and give you everything you ask for.  That's not the issue though, his fears are HIS fears and have everything to do with him and his ideas about commitment... .

Does that make sense?

When you tell him he's punishing you, I would imagine he feels extreme pressure; another bad feeling surrounding commitment.

That's a big reason why it's important for those of us who choose to stay in a BPD relationship to allow for quite a bit of emotional space.  Not full out detachment from them, but detachment from our grandiose notions of what pwBPD are really capable of giving us in the emotional department.

It's not that he doesn't care about you, benny.  He's simply not able to give you what you're telling him you need.  And it feels like punishment.

[Rockylove]

123phoebe, that is what he explains to me. He is afraid to comitt again. Both his ex's took everything he had and he had to start over both times. I understand that totally, but I am not them and I have explained to him that its not fair to punish me for what they did. I am nothing like them and would never take anything away from him.

I never even said I wanted to get married and he asked me... .  twice now.  He says that I'm the most non-materialistic person he's ever met, yet also says that I'm a c@#t like every other c@#t that just wants his money... .  well, I informed him that if I were after money, I'd seek someone who really had some!   

[benny2]

I understand what you are saying Phoebe. Having said that, I guess I need to decide at some point if this is what I want, someone who will never be able to commit. Without it, I would never be able to live with him again as it is to easy for him to just say get out and I do not want to live the rest of my life alone.

[waverider]

pwBPD often live mentally in an idealized world. One which they cannot maintain physically. Dreams and wants are unsustainable when realized as reality and imagination do not match.

He may have desired marriage, but could not sustain it. He may have realized this and is scared to be put to the test again.

It is common for pwBPD to run once they get what they desired, because the idealized goal was just an escapism from real life. Once realized it is no longer escapism it is real life. They now need a new escapism, that need cannot be satisfied.

If you wish to live with a pwBPD you need to accept they will always have big dreams, without you trying to meet them, or expect them to take real steps to achieve them.

Also your version of commitment maybe somewhat different. Consistency is not a strong point

[yeeter]

Is it marriage?  Or is it the commitment?  Commitment doesn't have to equal marriage.

I have friends that state they will never marry again. But that doesn't mean they won't be in a committed relationship.  It may very well be that the two of you have different positions in this, and it upsets him because he knows you differ on it (so pressure, stress, fear all triggered)

You can put me in the group of being gunshy as well... .  This might be a growing population

[benny2]

yeeter, I never mentioned the word marriage. I only told him I wanted a committed relationship. He does'nt want me with anyone else. He does'nt want to loose me yet I don't think he totally knows what he wants with me. I have been through hell and back with this man but the relationship has been all about him. I believe he is trying now, but there is still something not right. I think maybe he is trying because he does not want to loose me but its not really what he wants. The sad thing about it is, I don't think he knows what he wants and I'm not sure he ever will.

[123Phoebe]

Benny, have you had a chance to read the lessons available to the right of this page?  I mean, read them and really absorb them? 

So much of that 'all about them' phenomenon has to do with our own interactions with our partners; we make it all about them, too.  We think about them all the time, we get upset, we don't understand where they're coming from and a lot of the time we don't try to understand them either, because we're too busy reacting to whatever the crisis du jour is, sometimes of our own making.  Our self esteem takes a blow dealing with all this upset and we don't have the strength to stand back and get a better perspective. 

We tend to forget that we have a lot more control over our own lives then we give ourselves credit for.  In fact, we have ALL the control over what we will and won't allow into our lives.  Their needs seem to take precedence, because their entire lives have been devoted to fine tuning their unhealthy defense mechanisms.  Around every corner lurks a trigger.  When we react to these mechanisms with equal amounts of emotional force... .  there's yet another trigger that solidifies in their mind, another reason to have these defense mechanisms in the first place.

In order to survive (and thrive!) in any relationship, we have to have our own emotional space.  Enough space to be able to recognize what's their unhealthy dysfunction and what ours is, too.  Our stuff/their stuff.  We only have control over our stuff, so that's where our focus needs to be.  Then we build on what IS good between us.  We have the insight, so it's up to us to make the changes and hopefully while doing so, they're able to learn to trust us a little more.  And it keeps building... .  

It's a lifestyle change.  It takes time, hard work, patience, compassion (for ourselves, too!)... .   

When we apply all of the excellent resources available on this site-- boundaries, communication tools, invaluable lessons etc... .    When we absorb and apply all of this into our lives, learn new ways of being ourselves in the world, great things happen!  We gain strength and the courage to face anything that comes our way, with grace and composure and a feeling that we're okay, just as we are.  Among a whole lot of other wonderful things, too... .  

Sometimes we let relationships go and sometimes we find great reasons to stay and build on what we have.  Ultimately, what we do is up to us.  It great when we get to the place where we realize this and start living our lives to the fullest

[bruceli]

If you wish to live with a pwBPD you need to accept they will always have big dreams, without you trying to meet them, or expect them to take real steps to achieve them.

Soo true waverider... .  Of all the dreams/things BPDw says she is going to do... .  she has maybe done about 10% of them and 0% torwards any long term ones.  Even saying going to beach tomorrow will never come to fruition the next day.

[bruceli]

Is it marriage?  Or is it the commitment?  Commitment doesn't have to equal marriage.

I my case I don't believe it is either... .  I believe it's the responsibility that comes with both marriage and commitment.  They want it on their own terms.  Committed when it suits them, alone when it suits them. 

[yeeter]

What I was getting at, was 'what does commitment look like to you?'

It's likely that we all have a different mental model of what 'commitment' means, and the underlying motivation on why it's desired even.  Understanding these might give more insight to yourself on what you are really seeking.

Most times marriage in and of itself isn't the goal, it's an assumed set of expectations that come along with it.  And no two people share the same assumptions.  So it digressed.  Healthy people adjust.  Unhealthy people react.

For aperson with BPD,it might be hard for them to know what they really want (because emotionally, it's all over the map).  But if you can provide a strond and consistent direction and leadership, often they will tag on for the ride.