BPD traits in Nons? You?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

     My basic question is whether you see Bpd traits in yourself after reading to inform yourself?

The post below is some ramblings i need to get out, whether or not you read all that Id still like to hear from you and your thoughts.



... . a little logorrhea:

I took some online quiz and I have a lot of borderline traits - the exact number needed to diagnose someone- but some are way off... . Hoping someone can shed some light, Im trying to do some honest self growth but i think im starting to think myself into confusion. Warning- Long read.

Im starting to think the most black and white thing about Bpd is the method/criteria used to diagnose it.  Sometimes I read peoples experiences on here and it fits mine to a T. Other times I read an experience and I panick because your Bpd sounds like me. What i find confusing is that you can take the same story and flip the perspective and the other lover could be disordered, or both. So how do you seperate your stuff from theirs.

         

here are my traits:

NON traits-

     I dont have an issue with cheating. wouldnt do that to someone. dont need or want to either.

No self harm ever, but i could probably take better care of myself and get rid of unhealthy habits- i dunno if that counts as self harm, depends on who you ask so thats another gray area.

     I am not jeleous in a relationship more than normal i dont think, I dont hack into bf's info, i try not to ask the baiting questions that women are notorious for. but i do become increasingly insecure as relationship progresses. cant say if its me or the kinds of people i date or both.

     Lack of empathy- i dont think that applies, mainly because I spend an unusual ammount of time and effort worrying about how others feel, its hard to explain but if i notice someone feeling bad Its like I feel what they do until or unless I fix it or see it fixed- which could be why it angers me when people are selfish, because it is so difficult to block things out and just worry about me, its almost a compulsion to take the load off of others. I can honestly say that I do not do it to get in return... . I have been accused of that and i really dont think so but who knows, I can see how someone would come to that conclusion I guess.

     I dont have reckless behavior. I drink every so often. Im painfully shy and am not permiscuous. I do change what i want to do alot. I like being alone and dont get into relationships unless I genuinly care.

Bpd traits- Holy Cow did I RAGE like I never knew I could in this last breakup, and I couldnt let it go this time. It felt like years of supressed anger or something- then guilt for taking all that anger out on one person The anger i felt for being abandonned was insane, suprizing, SHOCKING. Im still ashamed at how I acted. No I did not stalk, or vandalize, I didnt make up rumors or try to turn anyone against him. I actually turned into a turtle, a loner, let him keep mutual friends. Embarrassed for the anger, the begging, fluxuating between making excuses for him and hating him, wanting him back, feeling repulsed. panick attacks, no sleep, shatterred confidence.

I do tend to go into debilitating depression after relationships end, takes me a few years to recover every time. I tend to isolate myself and think in circles.

I think a lot, probably too thoroughly through things. I do my best to keep that from people because it seems to drive people nuts when i start philosophizing. So I do have a whole inner world I keep to myself, and do my best to talk about things that bothers others.

Identity issues maybe, maybe not. I am not too worried about how others see me unless I am in a relationship or vulnerable. I dont fake it though, I dont like lying, Im not good at it so if i feel insecure- I will tell someone why- I think Bf's have taken this as an attempt to control them or manipulate, which I find frustrating and try so hard to approach everything with the purest intentions. I have interests, I dont feel empty, I do not seem to  connect my interests with my identity as much as others. for example I like to paint I dont sleep eat and dream about painting and I dont refer to myself as an artist- if that makes sense.

I do have a lot of guilt, it doesnt destroy me its almost like im a fish and guilt is the water so i dont know anything else. it is not something ive ever been able to escape. for example I feel guilty for writing this because its basically a novel about myself and its pretty self absorbed. If I know Im right and I speak up about anything, i feel self riteous but I also feel I havnt reached my potential or let myself shine in areas I may have been able to.

I think that mostly covers it. It sounds a little debbie downer reading over it so I should mention im able to laugh at life and myself and this is how ive always been. I realize BPD is just a word, or three words, and the label doesnt matter. It does matter if I am causing problems for myself and others and havea skewed perception of myself and the world. I dont want to hurt anyone, the idea of that really scares me.

If you read this thank you. Its really important for me to gain some understanding. the most difficult part of healing from this past breakup has been the way it has led me to doubting every thought I have. Its funny, once I start feeling myself heal, i start to worry again. for example i really let myself go after this breakup, I use  to enjoy getting girly every so often and dressing up and looking nice, but now if i start to try to motivate myself at the gym and think about looking good and taking care of myself, my heart sinks and I worry that im being vain. the self doubt has never been this bad, i worry that i have ruined everything by the way I am so I cant let myself be that, whatever it is, anymore. Im hoping its just depression and my achilles heel(my dad told me all the time growing up that I had a distorted way of seeing the world, so all someone has to do is tell me my perceptions are off and it will send me into confusion).

K- thats all- more like a diary entry than anything else. i am interested in hearing other peoples experiences with the aftermath, or with their own traits as well, not just writing an autobiography, ha. but i suppose i needed to get these thoughts out as well. hope to hear from you, whoever you are reading this

[Ittookthislong]

     My basic question is whether you see Bpd traits in yourself after reading to inform yourself?

The post below is some ramblings i need to get out, whether or not you read all that Id still like to hear from you and your thoughts.



... . a little logorrhea:

I took some online quiz and I have a lot of borderline traits - the exact number needed to diagnose someone- but some are way off... . Hoping someone can shed some light, Im trying to do some honest self growth but i think im starting to think myself into confusion. Warning- Long read.

Im starting to think the most black and white thing about Bpd is the method/criteria used to diagnose it.  Sometimes I read peoples experiences on here and it fits mine to a T. Other times I read an experience and I panick because your Bpd sounds like me. What i find confusing is that you can take the same story and flip the perspective and the other lover could be disordered, or both. So how do you seperate your stuff from theirs.

         

here are my traits:

NON traits-

     I dont have an issue with cheating. wouldnt do that to someone. dont need or want to either.

No self harm ever, but i could probably take better care of myself and get rid of unhealthy habits- i dunno if that counts as self harm, depends on who you ask so thats another gray area.

     I am not jeleous in a relationship more than normal i dont think, I dont hack into bf's info, i try not to ask the baiting questions that women are notorious for. but i do become increasingly insecure as relationship progresses. cant say if its me or the kinds of people i date or both.

     Lack of empathy- i dont think that applies, mainly because I spend an unusual ammount of time and effort worrying about how others feel, its hard to explain but if i notice someone feeling bad Its like I feel what they do until or unless I fix it or see it fixed- which could be why it angers me when people are selfish, because it is so difficult to block things out and just worry about me, its almost a compulsion to take the load off of others. I can honestly say that I do not do it to get in return... . I have been accused of that and i really dont think so but who knows, I can see how someone would come to that conclusion I guess.

     I dont have reckless behavior. I drink every so often. Im painfully shy and am not permiscuous. I do change what i want to do alot. I like being alone and dont get into relationships unless I genuinly care.

Bpd traits- Holy Cow did I RAGE like I never knew I could in this last breakup, and I couldnt let it go this time. It felt like years of supressed anger or something- then guilt for taking all that anger out on one person The anger i felt for being abandonned was insane, suprizing, SHOCKING. Im still ashamed at how I acted. No I did not stalk, or vandalize, I didnt make up rumors or try to turn anyone against him. I actually turned into a turtle, a loner, let him keep mutual friends. Embarrassed for the anger, the begging, fluxuating between making excuses for him and hating him, wanting him back, feeling repulsed. panick attacks, no sleep, shatterred confidence.

I do tend to go into debilitating depression after relationships end, takes me a few years to recover every time. I tend to isolate myself and think in circles.

I think a lot, probably too thoroughly through things. I do my best to keep that from people because it seems to drive people nuts when i start philosophizing. So I do have a whole inner world I keep to myself, and do my best to talk about things that bothers others.

Identity issues maybe, maybe not. I am not too worried about how others see me unless I am in a relationship or vulnerable. I dont fake it though, I dont like lying, Im not good at it so if i feel insecure- I will tell someone why- I think Bf's have taken this as an attempt to control them or manipulate, which I find frustrating and try so hard to approach everything with the purest intentions. I have interests, I dont feel empty, I do not seem to  connect my interests with my identity as much as others. for example I like to paint I dont sleep eat and dream about painting and I dont refer to myself as an artist- if that makes sense.

I do have a lot of guilt, it doesnt destroy me its almost like im a fish and guilt is the water so i dont know anything else. it is not something ive ever been able to escape. for example I feel guilty for writing this because its basically a novel about myself and its pretty self absorbed. If I know Im right and I speak up about anything, i feel self riteous but I also feel I havnt reached my potential or let myself shine in areas I may have been able to.

I think that mostly covers it. It sounds a little debbie downer reading over it so I should mention im able to laugh at life and myself and this is how ive always been. I realize BPD is just a word, or three words, and the label doesnt matter. It does matter if I am causing problems for myself and others and havea skewed perception of myself and the world. I dont want to hurt anyone, the idea of that really scares me.

If you read this thank you. Its really important for me to gain some understanding. the most difficult part of healing from this past breakup has been the way it has led me to doubting every thought I have. Its funny, once I start feeling myself heal, i start to worry again. for example i really let myself go after this breakup, I use  to enjoy getting girly every so often and dressing up and looking nice, but now if i start to try to motivate myself at the gym and think about looking good and taking care of myself, my heart sinks and I worry that im being vain. the self doubt has never been this bad, i worry that i have ruined everything by the way I am so I cant let myself be that, whatever it is, anymore. Im hoping its just depression and my achilles heel(my dad told me all the time growing up that I had a distorted way of seeing the world, so all someone has to do is tell me my perceptions are off and it will send me into confusion).

K- thats all- more like a diary entry than anything else. i am interested in hearing other peoples experiences with the aftermath, or with their own traits as well, not just writing an autobiography, ha. but i suppose i needed to get these thoughts out as well. hope to hear from you, whoever you are reading this

[Bananas]

   

Bpd traits- Holy Cow did I RAGE like I never knew I could in this last breakup, and I couldnt let it go this time. It felt like years of supressed anger or something- then guilt for taking all that anger out on one person The anger i felt for being abandonned was insane, suprizing, SHOCKING. Im still ashamed at how I acted. No I did not stalk, or vandalize, I didnt make up rumors or try to turn anyone against him. I actually turned into a turtle, a loner, let him keep mutual friends. Embarrassed for the anger, the begging, fluxuating between making excuses for him and hating him, wanting him back, feeling repulsed. panick attacks, no sleep, shatterred confidence.

Yes I did the same and asked myself the same.  But I remind myself that I have been broken up with before and did not act this way, so I think what we are left with is a product of the relationship and the "non breakup breakup" that most of us have.  Some serious wounds.  I can honestly say this breakup left me at the absolutely lowest point in my life.  So where do you go from there?  Only up, right?

I too am doubting my thoughts a lot.  Everything is starting to get blurry.  I am reading a few books on mindfulness and trying to practice it.  It seems to be helping with the obsessive thinking.

It's not vain to take care of yourself! Exercise is good, it releases seratonin which helps with depression.  I know it is hard to get motivated but you can do it.  I know I feel so much better after I exercise. 

[Clearmind]

Yes absolutely... . since there there is no such as a 'non' we all most likely have some maladaptive coping skills/traits of BPD. Where there is an awareness we can heal.

AUTHOR: Dr. Burns graduated magna cum laude from Amherst College, received his M.D. from Stanford University School of Medicine and completed his psychiatry residency at the University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine. He has served as Acting Chief of Psychiatry at the Presbyterian / University of Pennsylvania Medical Center (1988) and Visiting Scholar at the Harvard Medical School (1998) and  is certified by the National Board of Psychiatry and Neurology

Ten Ways to Untwist Your Thinking

Companion article to bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=56199.0

From "The Feeling Good Handbook" by David D. Burns, M.D. © 1989

Now that you've identified your twisted thinking, use the suggestions to untwist those thoughts.

1. Identify The Distortion: Write down your negative thoughts so you can see which of the ten cognitive distortions you're involved in. This will make it easier to think about the problem in a more positive and realistic way.

2. Examine The Evidence: Instead of assuming that your negative thought is true, examine the actual evidence for it. For example, if you feel that you never do anything right, you could list several things you have done successfully.

3. The Double-Standard Method: Instead of putting yourself down in a harsh, condemning way, talk to yourself in the same compassionate way you would talk to a friend with a similar problem.

4. The Experimental Technique: Do an experiment to test the validity of your negative thought. For example, if during an episode of panic, you become terrified that you're about to die of a heart attack, you could jog or run up and down several flights of stairs. This will prove that your heart is healthy and strong.



5. Thinking In Shades Of Grey: Although this method may sound drab, the effects can be illuminating. Instead of thinking about your problems in all-or-nothing extremes, evaluate things on a scale of 0 to 100. When things don't work out as well as you hoped, think about the experience as a partial success rather than a complete failure. See what you can learn from the situation.

6. The Survey Method: Ask people questions to find out if your thoughts and attitudes are realistic. For example, if you feel that public speaking anxiety is abnormal and shameful, ask several friends if they ever felt nervous before they gave a talk.

7. Define Terms: When you label yourself 'inferior' or 'a fool' or 'a loser,' ask, "What is the definition of 'a fool'?" You will feel better when you realize that there is no such thing as 'a fool' or 'a loser.'

8. The Semantic Method: Simply substitute language that is less colorful and emotionally loaded. This method is helpful for 'should statements.' Instead of telling yourself, "I shouldn't have made that mistake," you can say, "It would be better if I hadn't made that mistake."

9. Re-attribution: Instead of automatically assuming that you are "bad" and blaming yourself entirely for a problem, think about the many factors that may have contributed to it. Focus on solving the problem instead of using up all your energy blaming yourself and feeling guilty.

10. Cost-Benefit Analysis: List the advantages and disadvantages of a feeling (like getting angry when your plane is late), a negative thought (like "No matter how hard I try, I always screw up", or a behavior pattern (like overeating and lying around in bed when you're depressed). You can also use the cost benefit analysis to modify a self-defeating belief such as, "I must always try to be perfect."

More information here... .

[recoil]

BPD traits are human traits.  We all have them to some extent.  The extent or intensity of those traits separates a "non" from someone diagnosed.

For example, a lot of people fear being abandoned.  But not all of us go to superhuman extremes to avoid it.

[winston72]

As I move along in my healing and growth, I find that using labels becomes a hindrance more than an aid.  In the beginning, it was very helpful to see behavior through the diagnostic prism of the BPD label.  It really shed light upon and brought understanding to some very confusing and, of course, intensely painful experiences.  The label was necessary to almost force me to "face the facts" and see things as they were/are.  As time rolls on, the labels start to become barriers to seeing the human condition in a full and compassionate view.  The non/BPD labels become non v BPD, us v them, and "they" become foreign and alien. 

All this being said, your question and the topic is a good one.  As in anything relationship, we identify with and adapt to our partner.  Certain aspects of my ex's personality really affected me.  When she projected certain traits, feelings and fears upon me, I tended to absorb them fully and without hesitation.  That created a landslide of self-doubt, confusion and ultimately horrible anxiety.  And yet, some of those projected feelings had some basis in fact within me, so I could not just shrug them off.  Aarrgh!

Black and white thinking... . her rigid approach invited a similar response from me... . it did not require it, but it elicited such thinking from me. 

As Recoil posted, we all have tendencies toward certain BPD traits.  Some are more likely to be accelerated and magnified in a relationship with someone who is experiencing them in a more magnified manner.

[Lao Tzu]

     I think recoil said it best here; we're human and these are all human traits.  It is entirely a matter of the degree to which these traits get in the way of our lives.  I've obsessed a bit on this topic for myself, and while I'm convinced that I had a lot of the traits at the time of the r/s with the pwBPD (love these abbreviations), I find myself actually very grateful to the poor guy who followed me in the sequence.  While I was as abandonment-sensitive as she was, and possibly as self-centered, I can't convince myself that I ever could have just dropped someone like a hot potato and moved on to someone else in such a short period of time after feeling such deep emotion.  So, that's where I draw a line between what I was (or am) and what she was.  It's a matter of degree and how much the disorder affects our life. I don't "have it" to that degree and these behaviors haven't ever dominated my life.  For me, 'the defense rests' right there.

LT   

[BlushAndBashful]

In my previous, pre-pwBPD life, I don't think I had too many traits, if any. I do tend to get my heart broken and it takes me a while to recover. I take it personally.  The one thing that made me "ripe for the pickin'" is that I had gone through a divorce about 2 years earlier. I was "over" it, but I still felt like a failure, and always wondered if I could have done more to save the marriage (honestly, it just got to the point where we couldn't stand each other, so we didn't put a lot of work into couples therapy, etc.).  So pwBPD came along, treated me like I was the most exquisite treasure ever, and put me on a pedistal. I ate it up, since I was beyond crazy about him. I was bound and determined to make this work, since he was 10x the catch that my first husband was (so I thought).

During the r/s and after the repeated breakups, each and every one of you here would probably peg ME as the pwBPD.  For example, I was extremely scared of abandonment- well, after I had been kicked to the curb for no reason, unprovoked, time and time again, I was trained like a lab rat to anticipate the shock. I gushed ad nauseum about how much I loved him and lavished affection on him, because he said he didn't feel loved. That kind of thing.

Now that I've been out for almost 2 years, I'm pretty sure I don't have BPD, and my traits have been reduced to zero. Then again, I haven't dated anyone since then-- but given the fact that I was pretty darn stable for the first 35 years of my life and had tons of "normal" r/s of varying lengths and intensities... . yeah, I think I'm okay.

[delusionalxox]

Oh lordy... . this is ringing so many bells for me... .

I came onto the board feeling as if I must be the pwBPD. Since when ex split me totally black and dumped me, he took a pose of detached superiority to me ('I wish you serenity and to stop hating' etc etc). Throughout the relationship he derided me for being depressive and stressed. I pathologised myself over and over again to suit his model where he was the big forgiver and I was the craven, dreadful lunatic. Apologised for things I should not have apologised for (because he would demand my apologies and obeisances) then raged myself because it was all so unfair.

I also felt the rage, the dependency, the horrible combined love/hate/need thing.

I can honestly say that although I feel lonely and very sad- and as if I wasted 3  years of my life on an utter b*stard and little boy in a man's body- I don't feel nearly so crazy now. NC has really helped.

I apologised to him for my part in it all and received no response. I was pregnant too and had to go through an abortion on my own with only whinging avoidance from him during it but I still had the wherewithal to realise that I had to say sorry for my part in it all- without absolving him.

That's how I know that despite my issues I am not the truly 'bad person' here. I said many raging things= nothing worse than stuff he's said to me, although perhaps more of it :D- and I would never have left him in a state of emergency or ill or just marched off into the sunset like he did.

I went on antidepressants too. I had become seriously depressed with a PTSD type reaction. I was having to go through too much both physically and mentally. And he just abandoned me to it. He was part of the problem not the solution. The solution is to get well and pay attention to my mental health.

he would  never have got the hooks in me that he did if I had been mentally healthy in the first place and not under so much stress (post bad divorce, like poster above; I think I almost saw him as my karma for my previous bad behaviour).

Unlike some on here I've shown BPD traits myself (BPD mum) but more in the past. I have been promiscuous and cheated in the past, lied etc. Feel utterly chagrined about all that and apologised to everyone involved. The odd bit of impulsive behaviour, moodiness. Etc.

I have an awareness of it  now. I could never behave (I don't think) as insensitively as I did in the past. I know I have issues or I would never have ended up with that destructive and ultimately cruel man. Without him I'll be better, although I'm never going to be 'perfectly' healthy, I shouldnt' think.

[cska]

BPD traits are human traits.  We all have them to some extent.  The extent or intensity of those traits separates a "non" from someone diagnosed.

I was gonna write this! I think recoil is right, "the extent or intensity of those traits separates a "non" from someone diagnosed". Also, the ability to regulate and suppress these emotions separates "nons" from pwBPD.

My ex was extremely jealous, and I remember thinking, everyone gets jealous to some extent. But the difference b/w me and her was that if I feel some kind of unreasonable jealousy for a split second, I am always able to reason through it, whereas my ex was not able to reason through anything. (She would get upset when I would be polite to ant girl, even a waitress at a restaurant.)

[MaybeSo]

Ittookthislong... .

I identify with some borderline traits, but that's not the same as having a personalty disorder. That's more difficult to change.

I have some very similar issues that you mention, anxious attachment style, some emotional dependency issues (codep stuff) ... . family of origin stuff that you learn growing up. I raged a few times at my ex.

But I know myself, I'm not a chameleon, I don't cheat, I'm honest, I learn from mistakes, I have a history of stable relating... .

But as a "non" I certainly have stuff to learn and work on. There really is no such thing as a non anyway, as Clearmind stated, and identifying as NOT having a severe personalty disorder doesn't mean we are always the best or most skilled at relating or understanding ourselves. There's always room to grow.