stay or leave - what's best for my kids?

[quiet1]

I feel very torn and trapped in a situation that does not appear to have any good outcomes. My wife and I have had our on-and-off fights during our 8 years of marriage. The tone of which has steadily gotten worse as my wife now frequently threatens divorce during our fights (a ground which neither of us would touch upon before). I've also been reading up a lot on BPD, and while my wife has not be diagnosed, she seems to fit much of the profile.  And while she is ready to bolt (or at least says she is), I'm trying to hold everything together. But as many have posted, it is EXHAUSTING, and has taken a tremendous toll on me mentally and physically. I don't know how much fight I have left in me.

The hardest part I'm dealing with right now is what is best for our two children (both under 8). I don't know what toll the conflicts in our marriage have had on them already. Is keeping my marriage going with the toxic tensions harmful to them? Or will it only be worse if we split and I won't be around to "absorb" some of the BPD effects? It absolutely devastates me to think of what divorce would do to them. My children are so beautiful and resilient and I just want to give them a home life they deserve.

My wife largely blames me for why our marriage doesn't work; I think she expects me to change so that things will be better, and if I don't change, then we're better off being apart. Is she right? I'm strong enough to know that only so much blame lies with me. And that is my biggest fear -- that we split up and the problems she thouhgt she was getting away from still linger -- only now she is divorced trying to raise two kids by herself (joint-custody, of course).

I'm still not ready to throw the towel in yet, but I just don't know what to say or do when everything is our marriage suddnely turns awful for her. And if I'm going to stay in it for my kids sake, I'm going to have at least another decade of figuring out how to live with her in a way that doesn't suck the life out of us.

What has been people's experience for their children in these kind of relationships?

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[JamesInAtl]

I'm in the same boat.  Been with my wife 4 years.  I adopted her oldest son who is 7 and we have two young daughters.

I ignored the myriad of divorce threats until I found a legal retainer on an online credit card statement. It seemed at the time that my wife was crying wolf.  However my wife does have enough Narcissistic tendencies that I classify her as u NPD/BPD.

The conventional wisdom is these relationships aren't good for the kids. If you can't use the tools available here to stop walking on eggshells and create good boundaries then it might be best to create a seperate environment.

S7 and D3 already show signs of parentification.   Its a tough call.  Especially if you are not in a jurisdiction where you are likely to get 50/50 joint or primary.

[daylily]

quiet, this is something many of us struggle with.  My uBPDh and I have two children (S5 and D2).  The fighting does affect them, especially our 5-year-old, who is sensitive and very perceptive.  But I feel like I have some control over what happens in front of the children.  I see it as my responsibility to protect them, because my H may be so absorbed in his emotions that he isn't thinking about anything else.  If you use the tools, and most importantly, don't engage in arguments when the children are present, I think you can minimize the damage, if any.  She'll probably get really mad at first that you won't engage, but if you need to, take the kids and leave.  At some point, the extinction bursts will stop and she'll accept that you're not going to fight in front of the kids anymore (she may not like it, but she'll know that if she doesn't respect this boundary, you will leave the house with the kids for awhile to take a break).   

My situation may be different than some on this board, however.  My H is generally a good father.  As of now, he doesn't rage on the kids and, except for some inappropriate comments about how their behavior affects him, looks out for them.  The issue in my house is the fighting between me and H and the effect of that on the kids.

As you have pointed out, maybe it's better to be there with the kids instead of them having periods of custodial time with your wife alone.  And divorce is hard on kids, and after all, that's what we're concerned about, right?   Custody battles are not fun for the parents and especially for the kids.  pwBPD are known for alienating children against the other parent, which is another issue.

I will stay, no matter what (except for specific boundaries I have created), because of my kids.  Although my H threatens divorce fairly frequently, he stays too and says when he's not dysregulated that he will stay for the kids, no matter what.  Sometimes I just break down, grieving the fact that I will never have a supportive and loving relationship.  But I accept that is my truth.

I suppose whether or not to leave is a personal decision that should be based on the individual facts of your situation.  I know it's hard, though.  We're often stuck in a position where neither choice is a good one. 

  Daylily

[Linlu53]

I struggled with that same thing. My kids are now 29 and 26. The turmoil they went through is something I really have a hard time with. I am the type of person who would try not to escalate the arguments although we fought in front I the kids a lot. I mostly prayed for mercy and the shielding of my children's emotions. I left my husband 3 times. He was terribly afraid of abandonment and always promised to be better after reconciling. He has progressively gotten more mellow. I wish I had te benefit of resources such as this site. I had no idea what I was dealing with back then. I just thought he was mean. Like living with an alcoholic that didn't drink. Anyway, I stayed. My son is amazing. Married a wonderful woman and is a minister. He has a great personality. My daughter unfortunately has some BPD traits. I already feel for her husband of one year. I am currently reading the family guide to borderline  and I hope to be able to use it to make the rest of my marriage somehow better.

[quiet1]

Thanks everyone for sharing your thoughts. For now, I'm going to try and make it work (and use this site to help me along the way!). I feel like I now know that, like it or not, I will need to put the extra work into figuring out how to keep us all together without it bringing us all down in the process.

[Grey Kitty]

  quiet1, you will definitely find resources that will help you a great deal here. (The Lessons off to the side ---->> are a fantastic resource) They have helped many of us here, myself included. So let me say welcome!

I don't have children, so can't speak to that directly... . but as you have seen already, parenting skills vary quite a bit among people with BPD.

now would be a great time to start a new post, starting with where you are with your wife--a problem that is getting under your skin, or something you are trying to better understand from the lessons.

 GK

[tundraphile]

This is something I struggle with and think about every single day.

Because like snowflakes, every person is different, certainly every relationship between two people is also different.  It makes it difficult to take any advice stated as absolute & universal truth with a grain of salt.  Everyone bases thier advice upon their own experience.  Even professionals do this to an extent.

In some cases (say H is sexually abusing kids), it is easy and obvious.  Same if he gets drunk and puts cigarettes out on their arm.  But the vast majority of situations are not this easy.  In some ways having an obviously insane spouse makes the job easier.

I don't engage in wishful thinking, but it would be nice to have a crystal ball and see how your choices today will affect your children in the following decades.  My D8 is the most important thing, even if it means unpleasant times for me for the next 10 years or so.  The sticky choice is what is best for them:

1) Leave now.  Which means uBPDw gets 50% time completely alone with her to poison her mind.  Watched this with my stepdaughter years ago.  Plus kids struggle through divorce and it often impacts their relationships forever.  "Two happy homes is better than one unhappy home"  Baloney.  We all know the best scenario is one happy/one unhappy home, and that is if we somehow are able to find happiness.  No way a BPD will ever be happy alone.  Besides, knowing that you are leaving your child in a situation that you couldn't tolerate yourself isn't great parenting IMO.

2) Leave when the they leave the house.  My plan unless uBPDw undergoes an amazing transformation in the enxt decade.  :) will not be around to witness it.  Gives you time to plan and mentally prepare for the storm that will be unleashed.  By then D will be starting her own life, have her own friends, hopefully enough sense to not get pregnant or otherwise throw their life away.

3) Never plan on leaving and tough it out.  Often the advice of religious people.  As long as you never want a life and like being miserable.  Have at it.

This is how I had to come to think of this.  I made a few mistakes.  15 years ago married the wrong person.  Later decided to have children (we adopted, so really by choice).  I've enabled her dysfunctionality for years in the hopes that it would make her happy.  

But this is my situation, largely by my own choices.  It is a prison sentence in some ways that ends in 10 years.  I could leave today, but that would be abandoning my obligation to D8, and I cannot be there to protect her from her own mother.  Besides, not interested in voluntarily giving up 50% of my time with D8.  Then Ex-wife w/BPD would still be a thorn in my side.

[Scarlet Phoenix]

Hi quiet1 

I can see from the number of posts you've made that you're new here. Welcome! Like GreyKitty said, the Lessons to the rights --------------------------->

are great. I don't know if you've had time to look much around, but I case you haven't seen it yet, an article that's been very helpful for me isThe Do's and Don'ts for a BP relationship

Keep posting, tell us what's happening in your relationship or ask about things you would like help with!

[whatshappening]

Great post as this is just exactly what I was struggling with today. The thoughts shown here have given me new resolve to withstand the constant berating and angry behavior that is marking my life more and more. Knowing that kids emotional development is solidified in the ages between 6 and 10, has me concerned as to if what I am doing is right. Thanks and Good luck to everyone.

[egribkb]

I spent a whole year literally struggling with this thought everyday. Through counselling, reading, more experience, self reflection, and endless flip flopping I eventually decided on divorce. I am not suggesting that for you, each person is different.

One of the many epiphanies that I had during this time came after I put together these 2 statements from 2 different therapists... .

1. You can't expect the other person to change, even if they are in therapy. If you are able to handle your future life (and that of your children) looking like it does now and are OK with that then stay.

2. Children of pwBPD who are stuck in that environment tend to end up as pwBPD themselves.

I chose to get out and provide a safe stable place for my daughter. Even if I don't have her all the time (and boy was that hard to swallow - that's a whole 'nother set of fears to deal with) when she is with me she is in a place that is free from hostility and manipulation.

I am nearly a year out since separation, divorce will hopefully be final in a couple months and it has been a tough roller coaster ride in every sense but far far better than the alternative for me and my child I strongly believe.

Again, I reiterate this may not be your solution, this is the "staying" board after all that you posted to. Just sharing my experience.

[Linlu53]

May I suggest an excellent book I just read and probably need to read again? Stop Caretaking the Borderline or Narcissist. How to end the Drama.  I so wish I had read it 35 years ago! When my relationship with my uBPDh began. I stayed, my children had a mom and a dad in the home, but it certainly was not without turmoil. Now that my kids are both out on their own I am back to the business of figuring out if I'm strong enough to fix this relationship with the tools I am discovering or if it is too much work. I dream of cutting my losses and starting over alone. But I still waver in my decisions. After all the hurtful, damaging things he's done, I don't want to hurt him by leaving! Can u believe that! And I'm not even sure if I truly love him! I guess that is where the FOG comes in! Well, I wish the FOG would lift! Anyway, try the book. it's great!