shes home less:(

[qwaszx]

well when push comes to shove i think this needed to happen, but i can’t help but be scared s***less... . i want to help her out, but know i cant enable her. i know this has to happen, if she to learn to save herself... . its hard watching her fall... . so today she’s kicked out of home... . needs to be gone by tom... . i feel a little optimistic about it all because she’s been sitting on the ledge for a  long time... . now its do or die time... . but i know her breaking point is lower than most... . i’m scared she'll fall harder... . at least its summer, and she wont freeze to death... . im worried about junky or prostitution... . :'(... . i hope she fights... .

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Rockylove]

i want to help her out, but know i cant enable her.  :'(... . i hope she fights... .

  I hope she fights too.

[qwaszx]

i want to know what i can do(other then take care of myself), and what i shouldnt do... . im worried about her general safety... . is it best to let her fall. hit complete rock bottem, even if that means addict, or prostitution, what if she dies? shes low fuctioning... . extremely low... . if you ask me... . hasnt worked in over a year, and im pretty sure she can't pay her bills to save her life. can she learn anything by living on the streets?... . other then to relay on herself. Which i is what she needs right? so this is what she needs in order to get better? even if the risks are very costly?

[qwaszx]

And Thank you Rockylove

[arabella]

i want to know what i can do(other then take care of myself), and what i shouldnt do... . im worried about her general safety... . is it best to let her fall. hit complete rock bottem, even if that means addict, or prostitution, what if she dies? shes low fuctioning... . extremely low... . if you ask me... . hasnt worked in over a year, and im pretty sure she can't pay her bills to save her life. can she learn anything by living on the streets?... . other then to relay on herself. Which i is what she needs right? so this is what she needs in order to get better? even if the risks are very costly?

What a terrible thing to watch, I really feel for you and your friend, qwaszx. This has got to be a huge struggle for you.

You shouldn't 'rescue' her. Don't give her money or let her move in with you, that doesn't solve anything. What you can do is get some information for her. Perhaps there are local resources that she could access - food banks, community support services, drop-in centres, shelters, etc. She may not have the capacity to think of these things or to locate them herself. You could make a list and give it to her. It would then be up to her to makes use of those resources (or not). Many of the places I mentioned will also have other information available for people who inquire. This helps her but it doesn't enable her - all of the 'action' is still up to her and you will have to let her make her own decisions. There is nothing you can do to stop someone on a path to self-destruction except give her the information to make other choices.

You sound like a wonderful friend to have, qwaszx! Also, please remember to take care of yourself in case she needs a shoulder to cry on later.

[qwaszx]

ok, thank you. i'll make her a list of some sort... . this blows. :'(

[arabella]

It totally, 100%, absolutely and completely, does indeed blow.

Are there other things that you can think of to do that might help, yet not enable? Are there ideas you'd like to maybe discuss here?

Remember to try to radically accept whatever she does. You don't have to approve, but try to have compassion, and try not to judge. She may need a soft place to land. It's important to have friends who will always be there for you - even when we make bad choices and have to start over.

[qwaszx]

sigh, we've been to rock bottom before, it wont be pretty, im not planning on going anywhere this time either, im staying, through hell and high water, i promised her that.

As of thinking about anything else i can do for her to help but not enable... . i've got nothing other than just sticking this out with her no matter what she ends up doing with her predicament. Im goin to go visit her at the end of this month, at least while im around i can bring her out of her head a little, give her a bit of peace. I know I can reach her mentally just about anywhere(other than rage but even that’s getting better) That is if she'll still let me see her when the time comes around, she might be to ashamed... . but i think we'll be ok on that... . i'd like to be able to say, "look if you can pick yourself up, brush it off, and if you are able to spit/share rent with me then lets do that." but thats a lot of huublaha she won’t understand right now, sounds to judgmental... . it'd come off more like, "you lazy SOB, look what you got yourself into this time, i dont love you, who would?  you should be ashamed. i only want you around if your paying the bills" so my approach is goin to be more just sitting back letting her make mistakes, but standing strong at her side. being there when she comes around, and listening and waiting in the meantime. I don’t really know I can do anything else right now….

we're pretty good at starting over:)

[arabella]

sigh, we've been to rock bottom before, it wont be pretty, im not planning on going anywhere this time either, im staying, through hell and high water, i promised her that.

As of thinking about anything else i can do for her to help but not enable... . i've got nothing other than just sticking this out with her no matter what she ends up doing with her predicament. Im goin to go visit her at the end of this month, at least while im around i can bring her out of her head a little, give her a bit of peace.

Then I think you're probably the best friend the girl could have!  All of these things are what she really needs. It isn't about the physical situation or money or anything else - all of those things would resolve if she could settle her mental state. (So much easier said than done!)

I hear you regarding the living situation. I do see how she might take your offer the wrong way. Aside from that issue, I don't think it's a good idea to ask anyway. If she's living with you, and she has monetary obligations to you (eg. rent, food, etc), then it really muddies the waters in terms of being able to both detach and still support her emotionally. I think your heart is in the right place, but the reality is that the situation could rapidly deteriorate and put you both in a very awkward situation. It could damage the friendship you currently have - the one she desperately needs.

[qwaszx]

ya, we lived together for two years, almost 3, she dysregulation like aways, that last time she moved to her moms(who im pretty sure is either BPD or has some major ) last year and everything went down hill from there. she never felt safe there, and they were always fighting... . and that last time she did i didn't guide her to stay with me. it was hard living with her, but right now i feel like its harder not too... . i know what shes like to live with... . but i also know if shes with me i can guide her to a more stable place, after the fall... . know shes safe from everything if shes with me but herself... . and i know your right... . im doing what she needs by not enabling her... . even if its really, really, crappy for me... . and her right now... .

im soo freaking scared, she hasnt text me today... . which scares me more... . 3days, thats what im giving her before i really get paranoid. thats what her normal for me not hearing from her is... . but this hasnt happened in months... . i dont wanta lose her now(she always feels like she doesnt deserve me as a friend, and runs away, but the last time she did she promised she wouldnt do it again)... . not when i dont know where she is... . i'd just like to know shes ok, she was really down yesterday... .

Then I think you're probably the best friend the girl could have!  All of these things are what she really needs. It isn't about the physical situation or money or anything else - all of those things would resolve if she could settle her mental state. (So much easier said than done!)

i dont understand how anyone in her situation can change her there mental state when they cant hold a job to save their life, so they can afford the right therapy(even if they were willing to go give it a shot)... . i mean none of us have that kinda money... . i just dont get how anyone can expect her to have a hope of changing, when the reality of the situation is that without the right mental state to get the money, its not really possiable... . it seem back wards to me.  

[arabella]

i dont understand how anyone in her situation can change her there mental state when they cant hold a job to save their life, so they can afford the right therapy(even if they were willing to go give it a shot)... . i mean none of us have that kinda money... . i just dont get how anyone can expect her to have a hope of changing, when the reality of the situation is that without the right mental state to get the money, its not really possiable... . it seem back wards to me.  

It's always backwards when the cost of health treatment gets in the way of getting well. It makes no sense. If you aren't well, how can you work to get the money in order to be treated so that you're well enough to work? Ridiculous.

I don't know where you're located, but most places have at least some free mental health services available for people who are truly desperate and without assets. Are there community services available where you are? Shelters? Those places generally have information to help people access services and treatment programs. I would start there. She may have to apply, or get on some waiting lists, but surely there must be something? I hope there is. It may not be specialized but, then again, sometimes it's surprising - and sometimes once someone's in the door, others start to open (referrals, treatment studies, etc)

Why did she move out of your place to begin with if she'd been there for so long?

[qwaszx]

she got into treatment, low key, through her family doctor, but none of the therapist she got know what to do with her(3 therapist), they all only lasted 6months then were gone, making her feel like shes hopeless, and her feel like more people had abandon her/let her down... . so she gave up... . housing is a five year waiting list(she told me)... . shes on disability right now(hardly anything because she was living with her mom), but i dont know how that works if shes still decided she doesnt ever want see another therapist again... . i dont know if she'll get cut off or what will happen .

i dont know about shelters, the day she got kicked out she was talking about calling there and seeing if she could get in... . but then for whatever reason something changed... . and she started telling me that she was worse then her father(her fathers who was physically/sexually abusive, and mother who i dont really know what happened there... . ) to me this means she goin to her "dark" place, and explains the lack of communication... . and then she told me she'd text me later, so about 5 i text her again letting her know i was going to be out camping for the night, and might lose signal... . so since then(two days ago) she hasn't really let me in on anything, only let me know that she was "fine" and that see loved me yesterday. today nothing... .

why did she leave? If I were to ask her today she’s most likely tell me because she’s an idiot, doesn’t think thing through and impulsive as all bloody hell. But it’s kinda a long story…

where we were living was an on sight job, she was painting our boss black, couldn't stand to be around her, she was a afraid of her, because my boss always said stuff about her weight after shes binge, and put it all back on... . she'd stop working every 3 months for a couple days... . To a week. the last time she deregulated there, was because she asked my boss if we could get a place not on sight, she wanted to be able to have her home life and her work life, and my boss told her no, that she needed us to live on sight as part of the job, well she felt trapped... . from an employer stand point  my boss was getting tired of not being able to relay on her so just as she was starting to come around again my boss decided to talk with her, it made her feel unwanted, like she got fired, which she didn’t my boss just was confused and wanted to know if she wanted the job still and what was going on(to be fair to her she was actually sick a lot of that time, she has proof of all that... . when she deregulates, she self-destructs really bad, pushes away everything good, brings in all the bad, i dont really wanta get into all of it, because its to personal) to sum it up, I let her fall instead of pointing her into staying…I decided I didn’t know what was best for her, and that I didn’t know what she needed,  I thought if she wants to quit, move home and try something different, who am I to go and stop her, I thought this might be an good move. I did nothing to influence her choices. She told me she was going on a break, and that I needed to trust her, that she would be ok. “break” to me means shes going to her dark place, and that the next month will be hell. She also lied and said that she couldn’t do physical labour.

[arabella]

Oh dear. Yes, I see. That all adds up to make things rather complicated, doesn't it?

I will say this though, you did the right thing by letting her make her own choices. Even if she makes poor decisions, that is her right - it just hurts to watch. It sounds like this could be the way things going to be for a very long time. What are you doing to mentally prepare yourself to be supportive and to keep yourself from trying to 'rescue' her? Because you wouldn't really be rescuing her, you'd just be a stop gap measure until something else happened - a bandaid for a much larger problem that she needs to deal with. What kind of support do you have for yourself qwaszx?

[qwaszx]

Just here. i feel pretty solid right this second though, other then worried cuz she still hasnt text me... . would it be wrong to tell one of her other friends whats goin on? or would that just be more of a breach of trust in our relationship... .

[Foreverhopefull]

Try giving her names and numbers of shelters that could take her in for a few days/weeks; or places she can go to for food, shower, etc.

Give her the list, she's the only one who should be calling and make arrangements with them to secure her place.

It's the hittiest place to be right now for you, and that's normal. Tell yourself that this list is the last you can do for her at this point.

 

[qwaszx]

ya i will, it is hity... . and hard.  :'(  if anything happens to her, i dont think i'll get over it, because although i know all this stuff, i know i cant do anything for her long term, i still want to be able to do more... . i wish it wasnt so freaking hard for her... . if i called she wouldnt go anyway, i'd be trying to "control" her life, im actually a bit afraid to give her the list because then it was "my" idea to use this, not hers and she might not use it just because i gave her it . i dont see her going right now anywhere good, she never shower when shes like this, none of it will matter, she'll let herself go to hell, become nothing, because she believes shes hit... . the other thing i dont understand is how anyone who hates themself as much as her can think to try to save themselves without something other then them self to work for... . what a crappy illness to have ... . i know it all has to be stuff she does on her own... . but she really had tried so freakin hard, she just didnt have the right location and the right kind of support... . anytime she gets to a place(mentally) where i think she'll be ok, she relapes, and its back to rock bottem... . how much bs can one person take? we're always like "until they decied to help themselves" but then what? when nothing resonable is in place for people with BPD to get help... . she has tried to help herself, over and over again. how do i convince her to try again? that this time it might work?

[qwaszx]

and sincerly thank you both for all your time  its greatly needed and appreciated... .

[arabella]

Could you perhaps tell another friend about some of it but not go into too many details? I mean, no, you don't want to spill her intimate secrets or details of her life - but she is going to need all of the support and watchful eyes she can get. You aren't going to be able to do it all alone.

I see the problem with the list. Okay then, what if you make the list for yourself? That way you'll have all of the info in case she needs it, but you can dole it out one bit at a time - more as little 'tips' or 'suggestions' rather than 'here's what I think you should do'? That might go over better.

So your friend was more stable when she was living with you and was working, right? That means she's not helpless. She has some sense of what she needs to do and she is capable of doing quite a bit of it. But she's in a dark place right now. She will come around again, but she'll need time and she'll need patience, and she'll need forgiveness and understanding. I think you're doing an amazing job trying to support her, qwaszx! I know you want to do more. It's SO frustrating! I think your best bet is to gently steer her in the right directions when she touches base with you. If you push too hard or get too enmeshed, she'll bolt (again).

I think the key to getting someone to try again is often to correct some of the distorted thinking that they become entrenched with. She needs to feel like it isn't all her fault. The reason it didn't work before is not because it's impossible or that SHE'S impossible - she just didn't get the right help and it's a trial and error process. She can be successful. You have faith in her. She'll probably need to hear these things many many times before she starts to come around.

Is it possible for you to get a referral to a counsellor, qwaszx? Dealing with situations like these are VERY hard on us support people! Plus, if you had a therapist/counsellor in the area, that would be one more person to give some advice and who would know the area resources.

[qwaszx]

I think the key to getting someone to try again is often to correct some of the distorted thinking that they become entrenched with. She needs to feel like it isn't all her fault. The reason it didn't work before is not because it's impossible or that SHE'S impossible - she just didn't get the right help and it's a trial and error process. She can be successful. You have faith in her. She'll probably need to hear these things many many times before she starts to come around.

ya i understand that. she was pulling really hard away from help before all this because her mom was really on her ass about taking her meds(so she stopped) and really pushing her to "get better". of course she doesnt want to be like this, but she wants to be able to live her life with a certin amount of respect, and her own way. screaming at her to "get better" makes her want to pull more. so im glad shes not there. that makes me optamistic, its just this whole not hearing from here thing thats freaking me right out... .

i cant say as far as not wanting to be forced to do somethine goes, i wouldnt do the same. no one like being treated like a child. if it were me id like it to be my choice regardless of what anyone thought.

and your right, shes not helpless. i know she'll figure away out of this fix, its just a matter of time. i just really im hoping to be able to see her by the time i come up... .

i've tried getting a therapist here but they never got back to me. soo... . im waiting til i move back to my home town, and going to pick it up from there.

[qwaszx]

:/ im sorry guys, false alarm, she hasnt left... . got a text today, letting me know whats up... . grrrrrrrrrr... . but glade shes alright. at least im prepared for net time

[arabella]

Not a false alarm if you believed it and were worried! You were alarmed and you armed yourself for 'battle'. And you're right - at least now you've got some ideas in place, just in case.  

Do you think you might be able to discuss some of the support tactics with her now? Sort of contingency planning, asking her what she would (and wouldn't) appreciate. Easier to ask now, when there is no emergency, than try to sort it out later in a crisis on your own.

p.s. Glad to hear she is okay!

[qwaszx]

could you give me some examples of what support tactics are? im having a moment... . i've asked her what she wants.

[arabella]

for example:

- would it be okay if you talked to some mutual friends (not details) just to make sure she's okay?

- is there anyone she'd like you to contact if she's in a downward spiral?

- is it okay if you call her repeatedly if she doesn't respond?

- does she prefer some other mode of communication?

- does she have a 'safety plan' in place?

- just flat out ask her what you can do, what she would want, if the sort of situation you're fearing comes to pass; brainstorm with her a bit

[qwaszx]

ok, Thank you again for everything

[arabella]

anytime, qwaszx! glad we could be here for you!