The spouse who continues to lie after going through therapy. Too much? Any hope?

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

After a few years of dealing with an uBPDw I am considering calling it quits. We nearly split up a few years ago when I left a very unhealthy situation. At that point she decided to go to therapy and I went with her and we got back together. We have had lots of ups and downs since. Sometimes it is absolutely horrible. Other times things are good and we have a nice time and seem healthy and it seems like there is real hope for a future.

One of my issues with her in the past was that she lied about all types of things. She would not admit to those lies when we went to therapy until I had her cornered with absolute proof that she was lying. After years of therapy and many but not all issues being remarkably better I suspected that she was lying about some things again. When I mentioned this to her a while ago she was very insulted that I would suspect that. Once again I sought proof of this and now have undeniable proof that she is lying to me. When we spoke about a few of these topics recently and I stated how I did not trust her (but did not mention having proof), she assured me that she was being truthful. I gave her multiple opportunities to come clean and she didn’t without mentioning I have proof. She is telling me that I am still holding on to my trust issues based on the past and that I need to solve that.

She had therapy for some other emotional issues but it was not specific to BPD. The therapist was aware of her lying in the past and she has told me that she doesn't do that anymore anyway.

At this point I don’t see how I can stay married to somebody who after years of therapy continues to lie to my face and denies doing so. I really truly love her and honestly wish that she wasn’t lying to my face and we didn't have other problems. I don’t want to lose my marriage over this but I can’t see how there is hope for somebody who still has not fixed this issue despite years of therapy to do so and I also can't see how a marriage without trust can survive.

Any thoughts or advice?

[djdave52]

After a few years of dealing with an uBPDw I am considering calling it quits. We nearly split up a few years ago when I left a very unhealthy situation. At that point she decided to go to therapy and I went with her and we got back together. We have had lots of ups and downs since. Sometimes it is absolutely horrible. Other times things are good and we have a nice time and seem healthy and it seems like there is real hope for a future.

One of my issues with her in the past was that she lied about all types of things. She would not admit to those lies when we went to therapy until I had her cornered with absolute proof that she was lying. After years of therapy and many but not all issues being remarkably better I suspected that she was lying about some things again. When I mentioned this to her a while ago she was very insulted that I would suspect that. Once again I sought proof of this and now have undeniable proof that she is lying to me. When we spoke about a few of these topics recently and I stated how I did not trust her (but did not mention having proof), she assured me that she was being truthful. I gave her multiple opportunities to come clean and she didn’t without mentioning I have proof. She is telling me that I am still holding on to my trust issues based on the past and that I need to solve that.

She had therapy for some other emotional issues but it was not specific to BPD. The therapist was aware of her lying in the past and she has told me that she doesn't do that anymore anyway.

At this point I don’t see how I can stay married to somebody who after years of therapy continues to lie to my face and denies doing so. I really truly love her and honestly wish that she wasn’t lying to my face and we didn't have other problems. I don’t want to lose my marriage over this but I can’t see how there is hope for somebody who still has not fixed this issue despite years of therapy to do so and I also can't see how a marriage without trust can survive.

Any thoughts or advice?

[KE151]

My waif ex was / is in therapy, 7 years and counting. Still lies continuously - white lies, huge exaggerations and major deceptive lying about the past and truth omission. I guess it's a deep rooted survival mechanism, something they really cannot get rid of as they themselves lack empathy and trust. Why be honest if they think everyone else is unreliable?

[Surnia]

 

djdave52

And so sorry about your situation. Living in a rs facing lies is a difficult thing.

I think it is a question about your values. When you are really certain that you want a rs where you can trust your partner and not being confronted with ongoing lies, than it is time to think about to end it.

Sounds in your words that you reached a point where you not believing anymore that she will change.

Perhaps you may tell us a bit more about the topics of her lies?

Keep in touch, djdave.

Surnia

[SadWifeofBPD]

Whenever people lie a lot, I wonder why.  Is it because they fear how the other person will react to the truth?

My best friend complains that her D lies to her a lot.  But when I pointed out to my friend that she yells at her D about "the truth" then that only encourages her D to lie to avoid the yelling.

So, if my friend asks her D if she's finished her homework, and the D knows that if she says, "no" that my friend will scold her, she'll lie instead.

If the pwBPD was raised in such a home, and/or fears that their current partner will scold if the truth is told, that just encourages dishonesty. 

[djdave52]

The lies are about many things. Sometimes they are exaggerations which seem designed to gain sympathy.

The latest is I have caught her snooping in my stuff. This was a problem years ago. I have nothing to hide but yet she has to snoop. There has been a pattern of this. I have solid proof that she has done this. When we spoke about it recently she denied ever doing such and told me how it would be a horrible thing for anybody to do and told me that it more of a trust issue I have which needs to be addressed. I didn't tell her that I have proof that she has been snooping and just acknowledged I need to figure out how to trust her.

In the past she denied all of her lies repeatedly until I showed her the proof. I am not sure I feel like showing her the proof this time.

The snooping itself is not the problem. It is how she can lie to my face about it and make it seem like it is an issue I have with trust.

[djdave52]

I meant to say that I don't like how she lies to my face and make it seem like the trust problem is only my issue when she is the one snooping around looking for who knows what.

Yes I do have an issue with trust because she has violated my trust before and continues to do so.

FWIW neither one of us have ever cheated on one another and we each truly believe the other wouldn't do so, so I have no idea what the snooping is about.

[Inside]

Seems to me …pwBPD expend and inordinate amount of energy and effort conning others into believing they’re normal, average, or ‘healthy.’  One of their biggest fears appears having people find out how immature and unstable they are, so they use every tool in their kit to disguise themselves - which apparently includes lying.  It’s ‘easier’ than telling the truth … until they add up and/ or need further explanation.  

I suspect on a casual level, when dealing with people who don’t really know them, it works – a ‘quick fix’ and an ‘easy out.’  Then habitually, under pressure, or carelessly - they eventually lie to us.    

They must justify lies by (if only temporarily) avoiding the discomfort of being an adult.  And like a child, they feel so incapable of ‘defending themselves’ they’ll say whatever’s expedient to avoid a confrontation, regardless of the long-term negative consequences ... . cause they’re incapable of thinking long-term?  

Mine is/ was careful, but after a few drinks began to treat me in the same way she would others - thus came the lies.  The fact they were so unnecessary led me to believe they’d become habitual.  And she’s sharp … leaving me wonder where she stops and the lies begin

[allibaba]

In some of his clear and enlightened moments, my uBPDh has said that he has no idea why he lies sometimes but does it to make himself feel better.  Its about his self-esteem/ ego and when he feels bad he makes stuff up.  In my radical acceptance of my husband, I have come to understand that he will lie.  As long as it doesn't cross certain lines... . I have come to terms with it.  I know where those lines are    If he passes them then its time for boundaries.