Fleas? Black and white thinking in one area? Help please

[manda]

I've been talking to my therapist about how I see people and how I have trouble reconciling the good and not-so-good things people in my life do. He has told me I definitely see gray, as in I can tell him that my relationships have flaws but are still generally enjoyable and whatnot. The problem is, I am having trouble when I get into big fights with my friends or a friendship starts to fall apart. When this happens, I don't know how forgiving I should be without being walked on.

I had one friend I had been friends with since adolescence, who recently let me know his highly bigoted opinions. This upset me, and he verbally berated me both for disagreeing and for being upset. He also ignored me when I kept trying to defuse the situation, and end the conversation. We have not spoken since, and I have looked back and realized this has been a pattern, of him disrespecting my difference of opinion and being verbally abusive. I feel that it is a healthy thing for me to do to remove myself from this situation, as we have addressed this issue before and he apologized but repeats the behavior

still.

I have another friend who is not there for me emotionally but buys me things( which reminds me of my FOO) who does not "fight fair" when we get in arguments. She won't take responsibility for what she has said or done, but changes the subject, and eh also saves up grievances, without me knowing what I did at the time, and brings them up when as ammo when she has done something to upset me. The thing is, I want to just lessen our involvement in each others lives instead of ending the friendship, as I am working to avoid "all or nothing" friendships, which is my real weak spot for such thinking. I worry that I am not being fair to her, then I worry I am not being fair to myself, then I worry that so many of my friendships are failing simply because I made them long ago when I was very much still enmeshed, and I have been raising my standards and putting up solid boundaries. Sorry this is so long and perhaps verbose. Any advice is much appreciated, as long as it is respectful. Thank you.

[Asa]

This is a very interesting topic, and I hope to learn more in this regard myself. My best friend since age 9 tossed me aside when I went through my divorce, appx 7 years ago, 30+ years friendship. I held her through her divorce, prior, but one particular day I really needed to talk and couldn't reach her all weekend. That Tuesday she phoned and left a VM, saying she heard me calling and didn't want to take a break from her recording (musician) because it was "God's calling" that she make the CD. However, she would "hold me in the light." That's a nice thought, but I really needed to connect with a live person and have a chat. We have not spoken since. She sent a follow up email later saying her "inner child" felt threatened and scared and she couldn't talk to me. My best friend, whom I grew up with was scared and threatened by what? Me?

Recently I severed ties with a friend who had been close. She would become jealous I would spend time with other friends with interests that didn't interest her. Then I started dating and she became really mopey and pouty and quite judgemental. I went to a new hairdresser and she commented that it looked different. "Well, as long ad YOU like it... . " was all she said. Nothing else, not that it looked nice or vulgar, just that weird unnerving statement. Many passive/aggressive actions and statements were put forth. Finally I asked her what was wrong an she cornered me, looked quite stern and said "you have not been a very good friend."  She went on talking to me like one addresses a dog. That evening she sent a lengthy email that started with how I get all defensive when she brings up these things (spending time with other friends and bf), even things like how uncomfortable it made her feel that I changed my routine where I go to the bathroom (we work together, and yes, I started using a different bathroom that didn't require passing her office because she was beginning to creep me out.). That's too much! But of course, one would get defensive when one feels they need to defend themselves. My response was that this was a verbal Gordian knot to which anything I say or don't say, ties to points of which I have a different perspective, and please be respectful to me at work. We barely speak and she makes that weird frowny-smile at me when she passes me in the hall.

So do we attract people who are like this, or are we the ones who need to learn alternative tolerances? Both cases I had been friends for a long time, and then weird behaviour.

I hope I didn't digress from your point, it just triggered this question in me, as well.

[GeekyGirl]

We learn from our parents. They're our first teachers and often our biggest influences in our formative years. If your mother showed a lot of black-and-white thinking, you probably picked up that flea from her. 

Here's the good thing, though: you're self-aware to know when you're showing signs of black-and-white thinking. Your therapist has helped you to identify where that flea shows up, and that means that you can catch yourself and change your train of thought if it bothers you.

We have not spoken since, and I have looked back and realized this has been a pattern, of him disrespecting my difference of opinion and being verbally abusive. I feel that it is a healthy thing for me to do to remove myself from this situation, as we have addressed this issue before and he apologized but repeats the behavior still.

You could try setting a boundary with this friend if you feel like you want to continue the relationship. "[Friend], I can understand how you feel strongly about XXX, but I have a different viewpoint. Rather than debate this, I'd appreciate it if you can respect that I feel differently and I'll respect that you feel the way you do." Agree to disagree. If you feel like this friendship is unhealthy, you have to decide whether or not to rekindle the friendship.

As for the other friend, you can set some boundaries in place so your friendship doesn't need to be "all or nothing." Have you addressed your friend's behavior and how it upsets you?

I worry that I am not being fair to her, then I worry I am not being fair to myself, then I worry that so many of my friendships are failing simply because I made them long ago when I was very much still enmeshed, and I have been raising my standards and putting up solid boundaries.

Do you see a difference in how you behave with friends you made a long time ago and friends that you've made recently? It may just be that these two friendships aren't right for you right now. Have you noticed any black-and-white thinking in any other relationships or areas of your life?

[okaythen]

Interesting. I've just been thinking lately that I ought to be more careful to make friends who aren't needy, who are doing well, maybe better than me, if they will have me. This because I am letting my friendships end at an alarming rate! I feel old, sick of it, tired, I am withdrawing, soon it will just be me and my dogs!

But I WANT them to end, which is not like me. One 'friend' advised me to be careful since, "I am one of the FEW FRIENDS you have left." wow. I thought to myself-it's over now. But I remained polite and eased out over a few weeks of minimal contact only initiated by her. I did tell her that really hurt my feelings, to which she just explained that she had already apologized. But I think to myself; Why? Why do I think it's okay for me to have friends like that? Or why do they get the idea it's okay to treat me badly? Kind of like my Mom does? Because it's really not. I'm checking my body for doormats.

[Asa]

Ditto on the evaluation of true friends. There are some. Also some recent "bodies on my doormat" (! Wink to okaythen; I had to play on your great phrase :-)   ). I don't like how I feel ending friendships, but the choice to remain is not healthy as well.

Recently I've been branching out, learning new things, and trying things I haven't done in a long time. Tai chi, yoga, watercolor painting, and I am in a couple quilting groups. I am reaching some new ties that I would like to form into friendships this way.

Just some ideas... .

[Reaching out is a result of the silent disappearance of my last boyfriend for the last month and a half. That requires a whole new thread and I'm not ready for it. Then the strange end to a couple significant friendships. Now my mom nearly triggering the next apocalypse. Diverted, thanks to BPD family.

For what it's worth, I'm seeing my quirky humor returning. I'll hang on to that hope.]

[manda]

We learn from our parents. They're our first teachers and often our biggest influences in our formative years. If your mother showed a lot of black-and-white thinking, you probably picked up that flea from her. 

Here's the good thing, though: you're self-aware to know when you're showing signs of black-and-white thinking. Your therapist has helped you to identify where that flea shows up, and that means that you can catch yourself and change your train of thought if it

***

You could try setting a boundary with this friend if you feel like you want to continue the relationship. "[Friend], I can understand how you feel strongly about XXX, but I have a different viewpoint. Rather than debate this, I'd appreciate it if you can respect that I feel differently and I'll respect that you feel the way you do." Agree to disagree. If you feel like this friendship is unhealthy, you have to decide whether or not to rekindle the friendship.

*** I have tried already setting this boundary, and he apologizes and says he will stop but does not. He has a very hard time agreeing to disagree with any of his friends. I also feel that he is harsher with me than he is with others when we disagree.

As for the other friend, you can set some boundaries in place so your friendship doesn't need to be "all or nothing." Have you addressed your friend's behavior and how it upsets you?


*** I did address these things with her but that is what I mean when I say she doesn't "fight fair". She does not validate or even address what I say to her, other than turning it around on me. I gave detailed explanations of how what she did was upsetting to me, and her responses were "you do that to me". I asked her to explain, and she... . This is tiring to go into detail again. Basically, she was full of it. She had flimsy or nonexistent examples. She said that before,  I was inconsiderate of her  feelings. She didn't remember how, or when, or any details about it. No circumstances, nothing. When? Last month, year,  5 years ago, when? Don't know she said.

I worry that I am not being fair to her, then I worry I am not being fair to myself, then I worry that so many of my friendships are failing simply because I made them long ago when I was very much still enmeshed, and I have been raising my standards and putting up solid boundaries.

Do you see a difference in how you behave with friends you made a long time ago and friends that you've made recently? It may just be that these two friendships aren't right for you right now. Have you noticed any black-and-white thinking in any other relationships or areas of your life?

** no. Like I said, I see gray in my life. I am happily married. I am a mother. These relationships have ups and downs. I get that. In fact, I did try to reach out to this friend several times since we last fought. She will not respond to me and it has been over a month. My triggers that I am working on are abandonment, feeling unimportant to people, being accused of things I didn't do, and assigned motives I do not have. She has done all of these things to me recently. My biggest current trigger is when my friends have cut me out of their lives without a phone call or explanation, and will not respond to my politely worded inquiries as to why. She has known this as I have cried about it to her, and now she has done it.

I helped her through an abusive relationship with an alcoholic ending in divorce, and her brothers death. When I tried to talk to her about my issues with my family, she says nothing. I addressed this with her and she said " what am I supposed to say?" As if it was ludicrous to ask such a thing. Does she think I know what to say when her brother dies? Or her husband hits her and divorces her? I have never experienced these things myself, but did what I could to comfort her and say whatever I could think of to make her feel better. I have given so much to her, and it seems to me that she thinks she can repay that by buying me things. (Trigger) but then when I try to refuse and she insists, or I buy something for myself that she offered to buy but didn't and she guilts me saying she was gonna buy it, then later she has overspent and then tries to make me feel guilty(trigger). It makes me feel like my mom did, like she thinks she can buy my love. I hate that. I want friendship, it should not be like a job where I counsel her and she pays me in goods. Sorry for the rant, this whole thing sucks. She also used to only want me to be around when she would get dumped, or until her bf started to dislike me. Looking back, I wonder if she ever really was my friend.