We are all in so much pain

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

This board has been a life line for me.  To know that others have had similar experiences and are feeling the same kind of pain and grief makes me feel less crazy.  But it also has me thinking... . what is our piece in this?  Why are we all so freaking heartbroken over someone who treated us so badly?  Someone said to me early on that "idealization is a powerful drug".  I think that's true.  But it's got to be more than that. 

[Emelie Emelie]

This board has been a life line for me.  To know that others have had similar experiences and are feeling the same kind of pain and grief makes me feel less crazy.  But it also has me thinking... . what is our piece in this?  Why are we all so freaking heartbroken over someone who treated us so badly?  Someone said to me early on that "idealization is a powerful drug".  I think that's true.  But it's got to be more than that. 

[Moonie75]

They're only half of our problem. WE are the other half. Most people spot the red flags & bail. They may be reluctant because of the charms & allure of these people, but their gut feeling wins out & they're gone.

Our gut feelings were the same but we didn't listen to ourselves. Maybe some of the pain is us, kicking ourselves as much as they kicked us?

[Emelie Emelie]

Maybe.  But I think it's more than that for me.  I'm beginning to realize I have some serious self esteem issues when it comes to relationships.  Pretty high functioning in other areas of life.  I'm not sure how to fix that.  Hoping the therapy will help. 

[Bananas]

I ask myself the same.  I still feel heartbroken today, 5 months out.

And there probably is.  You just have to search yourself to find it.  

I was married before to someone who I thought I could fix.  He was dBipolar and an alcoholic.  I couldn't fix him and he died.  I blamed myself.  That was eleven years ago.

Along comes my uNPD/BPDbf.  Thought I could fix him too.  I had to!  I failed before, it had to work this time... .  like fixing him would somehow make me feel better about not saving my husband.

So now I think I am feeling sadness for the loss of both relationships, opening old wounds, if that makes sense?

[Emelie Emelie]

Oh Bananas... . it's all too crazy.  My XHB was diagnosed as Bipolar and an addict too.  This was my first relationship out of the marriage.  I don't know that I thought I could fix my XHB... . but I did think I could love my BPD enough to make him feel secure in the relationship.  And I don't know that I feel like a failure exactly... . but I definitely feel like I wasn't good enough.  I mean his great fear was that I'd get "tired of his BS" and leave him.  He was SO afraid of me leaving him.  And in the end he left me.  A good friend of mine has suggested I'm mourning both relationships.  By the time I got out of the marriage I was relieved so maybe I didn't really mourn.  I don't know.  But my situation is different in that no one died.  I am so sorry. 

I am beginning to think I get involved with men who are damaged in some way because initially it makes me feel more secure.  (Looking back prior to the marriage as well.)  They really need me therefore they won't leave me.  And BPD really, really needed me.  At first.  And of course he did leave me.  Which left me absolutely shattered and even more insecure.  I mean if a guy who was this needy rejected me who the hell would want me? 

[dancinginthelight]

I want him to just love me again. I want him to desire and cherish me like

before.  I have only ever been in love and that was with him.

Having a down time just now.  Feels like yesterday when he left.

Feeling guilty.  maybe he felt I did not love him?

Doesnt matter what I do, just cant shake this heartbreak.

He has a new r/s and though I do not have ill will towards the

new woman,  I cant help but be so envious that she has a lovely man.

Does this make sense?

[cska]

  I mean if a guy who was this needy rejected me who the hell would want me? 

I guess that's how I feel too. Maybe that's the reason for the pain. In any case, the pain is horrible...

I'm sorry you're in pain Emelie.

Also, in my case, the idealization was so powerful that for her to treat me poorly was a HUGE blow. I guess that contributes to the pain. I thought the relationship was so perfect and then it turned out so bad...

[Emelie Emelie]

CSKA I'm sorry you're in pain too.  I'm sorry for all of us.  We are definitely the walking wounded.  I get you on the idealization.  It was like mine looked into my very soul and figured out exactly what I needed.  He knew exactly what to say.  I was so lonely after my marriage ended.  And for many years leading up to the end.  He actually said things like I think a lot about what life was like for you and I want to know how I can make it better.   I want to take care of you and make you feel safe.  (Now I bawling my eyes out again.)  I want to make you feel as beautiful as you are.  The really, really hard thing is I now realize he's probably said those same things many times before.  That it really wasn't about me.  But oh how badly I wanted it to be.  Still do.  It just hurts so much.  And what really kills is I know he's going to be saying it all again to someone else soon... . if he isn't already. 

[Octoberfest]

In some ways, knowing and getting involved with our BPDex's is a great gift.  It opens a window for us to look far deeper into ourselves than we could if we had not.

Our experiences in and the detachment following our relationships with our BPD's hurts like hell... . but it is an incredible opportunity for us to do some real self examination and find out what we are really made of, and why we were susceptible to the abuse we endured.  I think it is pretty commonplace that, if it were any of our friends in the relationship that we were in, we would look at them like they were crazy for staying and we would clearly see what was happening in the relationship for what it was: abuse.  However, when it is US involved, when it is personal, we seem to lose that clarity.  We CAN find it, we can gain new awareness of ourselves and become happier, healthier people.

Something important to remember is that there is no threshold in relationships with BPD's where "if you are this good" or "if you do enough things right" that it all works out and that these people become the people we wish they were. There is no magic person out there that can fix them; THEY are the only ones who can do that, and it is really kind of sad because they go from relationship to relationship, person to person, hoping that one of them will be the one who can make all of their shame and grief disappear.  It is a fruitless search.

[Emelie Emelie]

Octoberfest - I'm working on that.  I am trying to be grateful for this experience because it is making me take a long hard look at myself. 

My XBF is 49 years old and never been married.  He has gone from relationship to relationship.  Most lasted longer than ours but there have been a lot of them. It is sad.  And in the last few months of ours I realized just how sick he was.  And I knew it wouldn't/couldn't last.  I asked him once if he had ever asked anyone to marry him.  He said no. He would never get married unless he was "sure" it would last forever.  I didn't say so but I thought no one can be "sure" of that.  And I was so sad for him that day.  I saw the pain around his abandonment issues so vividly.  And on some level I know part of his ending it with me was about those abandonment issues.  Hell... . he told me it was.  And there were several other times in our relationship when he said he just wanted to end it now because the end was just going to hurt more the longer it went on.  But I still struggle with why he ended it with someone that he knew really loved him.  Which is why it makes me feel like it was about me.  That he rejected "me". 

[Perfidy]

And BPD really, really needed me.  At first.  And of course he did leave me.  Which left me absolutely shattered and even more insecure.  I mean if a guy who was this needy rejected me who the hell would want me? 

    My feelings exactly. Not only that she destroyed herself with addiction to meth. Destroyed the face... . rotten teeth. She actually landed a pretty decent guy. Amazing.

If a destroyed drug addicted mental patient won't have me who will! Lol... I'm baffled.

[Emelie Emelie]

Laughing with you Perfidy.  But we all see it so much more clearly when it's someone else.  You just said it... . you're a pretty decent guy.  She's sick.  On the surface of it I know I'm a pretty decent woman.  I have a lot to bring to the table.  He's sick.  My therapist is actually helping.  He's helping me realize there is a very lonely little girl inside of me and definite reasons for that.  I SO rejected that whole notion.  I'm mean... . who had a perfect childhood?  And my parents weren't perfect but they did a pretty good job of it considering they were 16 and 17 when they had me.  He's also helping me to "take care of" that lonely little girl.  That when I falling apart and want to call him that's LLG.  I need to be the adult and tell her I know you want him and miss him but that's a bad idea.  And when I'm a total mess to realize it's LLG and figure out how to sooth her.  Doesn't always work so well but helps sometimes. 

I'm sure you had friends who were AMAZED you were with a destroyed drug addicted mental patient.  Mine wasn't quite so "obvious" but many questioned my attraction to him.  (Even while unaware of what was going on behind the scenes.)  The overriding theme was "you can do so much better". 

But I do think that's part of why we hurt so much.  We gave so much and were ultimately rejected by someone we felt "safe" with.  Someone who at one point needed us so much more than we needed them.

[charred]

There are tons of fish in the sea... and trying to catch one specific one is hard and usually pointless, if you just like fish. At the moment you are enmeshed with your exbf/addict/problem guy. When you find guys like that are the ones you are attracted to, it is because they are familiar, they are like people you had in your FOO, and if it isn't working out for you, then look in to your own issues, work on them and the people you resonate with can change.

Most of attraction isn't looks, or voice or any other single thing, its matching what the other person desires, which they inherit largely from their FOO. Weird but true.

Been reading on just this sort of thing... . attachment issues and what to do about them, and found out some really different stuff; Anxious people, that have hard time with r/s in general, and came from difficult childhoods, internalize a lot of stress and anxiety and tend to disassociate when fearful... like talking with new people. They may maintain eye contact but the focus is off and people feel like they don't matter to them and kind of avoid them rather than connecting. That kind of issue is super common ... . and not always hard to fix. If you meet someone and they REALLY connect with you, are present a 100%... you may feel a strong connection with them... that is part of how BPD folks mirror and idealize you and draw you in. Most people will keep distance when you disassociate and give non-verbal clues you are absent... . but my pwBPD kept on and that is part of how I was swept up.

If I then decided I wasn't worthy of anyone since they were gone... . would be missing the fact that I had met tons of people... . and drove them away as that was what was more comfortable than facing my fears of rejection and/or intimacy. So... with some insight, I am finding that a whole lot of what I knew was "me" and "how I am"... is really defensive reactions to FOO issues, and while they had their purpose years ago, they are not helping things now.

I am starting to suspect that most the people that get involved with pwBPD... . are insecurely attached, or avoidant/fearful types and have a fear of intimacy. As loners... we don't expect anyone to scale the walls we put up to keep people out, so when someone does (pwBPD) and then they seem perfect, we fall hard. Would be much better to address issues, let the walls down and find someone that isn't disordered.  

Getting much closer myself... . a year ago I didn't see it, time helps.

[Emelie Emelie]

Wise words Charred.  I just hope we've got some hope of recovering from our issues.  I didn't date for two years after my XHB moved out.  I did a lot of soul searching as to how I got involved in THAT fiasco.  And I really thought I was OKAY.  That I would never again get into an unhealthy relationship... . or one where I did all the giving.   That I deserved more than that and was worth more than that.  And whammo.  The Universe laughed.

There was another piece of it for me too.  While he did a good job of figuring out exactly what I needed in the beginning of the relationship he also did a good job of discovering my vulnerabilities and insecurities as well... . and knew exactly what buttons to press when he was being critical.  In retrospect he was being more than critical... . he was being cruel.  But boy did he do a number on my fledgling self esteem.  Now I feel like I am miles behind where I was before I met him.  But then again i "thought" I was okay.  This has made me realize I wasn't. Not at all.  And I am getting some help figuring it out this time around. 

[charred]

I was sure I was fine... had been apart from my pwBPD for over 25 yrs, had a family, a kid, and was about as stable as you can get. Then my pwBPD contacted me and I found out I was far from fine. The stable was really inhibited and settling for how things were. Didn't have much intimacy in the r/s ... . due to me. And the pwBPD didn't let a marriage of over two decades get in her way, she ignored all those boundaries and I was so overwhelmed with newly re-found feelings I couldn't figure out which way was up.

It doesn't make sense to think of our pwBPD as blessings, (when they upset our lives terribly) ... . its like arguing that Japan is lucky we nuked them, as they did so well after that.

I felt alive with her and had hope I hadn't had in years, but it wasn't good and didn't turn out well. Did eventually figure out that my r/s with her was like a primary r/s, and that was why it hurt so much to split and why I took so much abuse from her. Also figured out I had my own attachment issues, and am finally seeing that I sidelined myself from living fully for years, maybe always. Have to really think back to find times when I was happy and anxiety free. There is no question my pwBPD caused a great deal of hurt, pain and anguish... . not just for me but for a long string of guys going back over 30 yrs.

Without the r/s with her I would never have seen a T, or dug as deeply for answers, as I didn't have enough motivation, I was settling for the way things were. Now I want what time I have left to be shared intimately with others... . I want close friends, and to knock down the wall that has kept people at bay. I have achieved a lot of goals that didn't really matter... and can see that there is no magic thing I can acquire, reward I can get or accomplishment I can have that will fill the empty feeling inside that has been there since I was a little. The feeling comes from FOO trauma and has to be dealt with by learning to accept my emotions, good and bad and feel feelings and stay present most the time. Disassociating, talking to myself, having my mind elsewhere, dreaming, ruminating... and a thousand other ways I divert myself from living... . have to change. Other people don't act like they don't want to be around me honestly... . I have acted like I didn't care to be around them. I have rationalized all kinds of reasons and built up my ego around being a loner and cerebral... . but it doesn't keep me surrounded with friends and family, or keep me warm at night. Think I am finally seeing the light... . the issue isn't my pwBPD... that was but a symptom (horrible as it was.) The root of the problem lies in my own handling of feelings, r/s with people and intimacy.

[momtara]

Sometimes, the good side of them is REALLY good.  Even if it only lasts a brief time.  When you've never had anything close, that's special.  No one should beat himself/herself up over it.  We all want to be loved. 

[DeRetour]

Emelie Emelie,

Someone said to me early on that "idealization is a powerful drug".  I think that's true.  But it's got to be more than that.

Oh yeah, I have to say it's been more than simply idealization. You got me to thinking about this though... .

I'm in my 3rd week after the breakup. I've decided to stay NC and now I'm being tested with my ex's repeated attempts to reach me.

But yes, I've been doing a lot of thinking about what is behind all of this intense emotion. When I look at the emotions that came up throughout this relationship, OMG they were so intense. So, back to the idealization thing - yes, at first feeling idealized was powerful. However, I was also aware of just feeling other passionate emotions more strongly in this relationship, than in previous ones. I'll try and explain...

It's normal to miss your boyfriend or girlfriend when they're away for a day or two. But, hmm, unlike in my other relationships before this one, when I missed my uBPD-exGF, I really missed her. She would text me at different times during the day and would call any night she wasn't sleeping over - she lived with her parents still. She'd tell me it was painful to be away from me, that her body ached, etc. When I felt tenderness for her, it was a deep kind of tenderness like I just wanted to do anything to take care of her. When I felt criticized by her, I felt a much deeper sense of shame than I had felt while "in the doghouse" in other previous relationships. And, when I saw she was hurt, I felt as though I wanted to absorb every last bit of it from her. And when we cuddled, even the thought of it brought out endorphins. I'm not trying to wallow when I share this, no. I just suspect this is a common pattern with BPD relationships, yes?

Perhaps this is somewhat related to what Bananas was talking about: the opening of old wounds. Everything was felt more intensely with this girl. The last time I felt any of these emotions this intensely was: dealing with depression/anxiety/frustration/addiction to household conflict in my adolescence AND, the raw feelings of fear of abandonment as a young child. The "highs" I felt from the endorphins that came with our good moments seemed so similar to the "safe" moments I felt in my childhood -lots of stress and unpredictability then. So I do think some old wounds were re-opened with this particular relationship. And now that things are over, these emotions have been really hard to deal with. Ughhh.

Emily Emily, hang in there and stay strong. I think it's really good to be posting here and sharing. It really helped that you started this thread. I'm sorry it's been so difficult for you. Know that you're not alone in how much time you need with this board. I'm right there too! I'll be reading more posts and might post something else tonight before I go to sleep. Take care.

[cylec]

I want him to just love me again. I want him to desire and cherish me like

before.  I have only ever been in love and that was with him.

Having a down time just now.  Feels like yesterday when he left.

Feeling guilty.  maybe he felt I did not love him?

Doesnt matter what I do, just cant shake this heartbreak.

He has a new r/s and though I do not have ill will towards the

new woman,  I cant help but be so envious that she has a lovely man.

Dancing,

I find it ironic that the people on these boards, whom we have never met, care for each other more, and show more empathy for each other than all of our BPDex's do for/to us.

I'm going through the DABDA process every single moment of every single day, but invariably, I will read that one post on here at just the right time that will scoot me to the Acceptance stage, if only for a little while.

thank you all for being there.

Does this make sense?

[Emelie Emelie]

Yes... . it makes total sense.  I am thankful for everyone here as well.  We all need empathy so badly right now.  We are lucky to have found it.  And I think it's healing to offer it to each other.

[bruceli]

They're only half of our problem. WE are the other half. Most people spot the red flags & bail. They may be reluctant because of the charms & allure of these people, but their gut feeling wins out & they're gone.

Our gut feelings were the same but we didn't listen to ourselves. Maybe some of the pain is us, kicking ourselves as much as they kicked us?

Very well put