Re: Red Flags: DSM IV

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

I'm just wondering, how many of the points others their ex partner had.

Mine actually scored nine out of nine !

Reg

[Reg]

I'm just wondering, how many of the points others their ex partner had.

Mine actually scored nine out of nine !

Reg

[Perfidy]

Yes mine had a perfect score too Reg. I have a perfect score for my own issues as well.

[Learning_curve74]

Nine of nine!   

She was diagnosed and aware of it. Sometimes I think she uses it to give herself more of a sense of identity, like she embraces it to the point of trapping herself in the unhealthy patterns of BPD behavior.  :'(

[Moonie75]

What are the specific 'nine' you speak of?

I'd be more interested to see MY score on a classic list of ''Non' traits! I reckon my score might be as worrying for me as her score for her (if she could see).

[Reg]

Moonie,

At the bottom of this page you can find them :

https://bpdfamily.com/bpdresources/nk_a102.htm

[mcc503764]

(1) frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment.

(2) a pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation

(3) identity disturbance: markedly and persistently unstable self image or sense of self

(4) impulsivity in at least two areas that are potentially self-damaging (e.g., spending, sex, substance abuse, reckless driving, binge eating).

(5) recurrent suicidal behavior, gestures, or threats, or self-mutilating behavior

(6) affective instability due to a marked reactivity of mood (e.g., intense episodic dysphoria, irritability, or anxiety usually lasting a few hours and only rarely more than a few days)

(7) chronic feelings of emptiness

(8) inappropriate, intense anger or difficulty controlling anger (e.g., frequent displays of temper, constant anger, recurrent physical fights)

(9) transient, stress-related paranoid ideation or severe dissociative symptoms

YUP... . that describes her in a nutshell!

Perfect Score!

MCC

[sadinnc98]

Mine also had all 9. Some were much more pronounced than others, but they were all there.

[bruceli]

(1) frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment.

(2) a pattern of unstable and intense interpersonal relationships characterized by alternating between extremes of idealization and devaluation

(3) identity disturbance: markedly and persistently unstable self image or sense of self

(4) impulsivity in at least two areas that are potentially self-damaging (e.g., spending, sex, substance abuse, reckless driving, binge eating).

(5) recurrent suicidal behavior, gestures, or threats, or self-mutilating behavior

(6) affective instability due to a marked reactivity of mood (e.g., intense episodic dysphoria, irritability, or anxiety usually lasting a few hours and only rarely more than a few days)

(7) chronic feelings of emptiness

(8) inappropriate, intense anger or difficulty controlling anger (e.g., frequent displays of temper, constant anger, recurrent physical fights)

(9) transient, stress-related paranoid ideation or severe dissociative symptoms

YUP... . that describes her in a nutshell!

Perfect Score!

MCC

9 of 9, but 3 only towards the bitter end due to her ability hide, lie and manipulate so well... .

[babushka]

my ex was undiagnosed but I strongly feel 7 out of 9 for him.

[charred]

You guy's pwBPD only had 9 of the symptoms? You are so lucky. 

[Cmjo]

My ex is undiagnosed and scores a resounding 8. He never expressed any threats of suicide, at least not to me. I lived with him for 10 years and only I can understand how illogical and irrational were his conversations and behaviour. He had few real frmiends andnthose he had he alienated one by one, so only I had to witness and live with his anger and eratticness. it was so frustrating. i asked why why why? When he started splitting our children at the very end, thhis was really the first time but it was so obvious and I felt abusive that I had to wake up to reality. I discovered bod after years of research. I think in his case it was possible to label BPD instead of just ass.

[causticdork]

Mine had 8 out of 9, and the only point she was missing was the intense rage/physical fighting.  I'd almost give her partial credit there, because she does get intensely angry over absolutely nothing, but she is very capable of controlling her anger.  Silent rage all the way.  Passive aggressive remarks, hurtful comments, and blank stares are more her M.O.  I think I would have preferred actual yelling and rage over the way she processed anger.  The dead eyed cruelty hurt so much worse than screaming insults ever would have.

[slop]

Mine had 8 out of 9; the one she was missing (or the only one I wasn't privy to) was #5, the suicidal one.

And yes, that "dead eye cruelty" thing was so scary and so sad - I've never experienced anything like that from anyone else, much less someone I was in love with.

[iluminati]

My stbxw was on Herman Cain status with them traits, 9... . 9... . 9!  LOL  She hit all 9 on the button.

[Clearmind]

It's funny... .

One of the "traits" of BPD is black / white thinking... . all good / bad... .

Just an observation here, but what is more black/white than taking a list of "criteria" from the DSM and applying it to another person's actions?

MCC

hit_

Labelling is benign as its usually executed by a person who holds immense self shame and self blame - this is why we want a diagnoses - to relinquish ourselves of responsiblity. We are not responsible for their behavior - this is not your fault. However we are responsible for our own.

Rather than making arm chair diagnoses which we can never be certain of, turn these observations into "Why did I ignore the red flags" - look at the behaviors not the label and then look at your own actions.

We often have our own dysfunctional thinking called splitting - splitting is not just reserved for Borderlines beleive it or not! Splitting is black and white thinking and causes us to view a person as all good or all bad.

Yes mine had a perfect score too Reg. I have a perfect score for my own issues as well.

A good honest assessment there Perfidy. You are probably not BPD however yes we do have our own issues to overcome.

[Perfidy]

Clearmind, I am finding that as time goes on and I am alone that being honest with myself is making acceptance more solid. I have been detaching for many months now and all of the game playing is over. The mental anguish and depression are mine and mine alone. Being away from her and having no contact period are the two things that were essential to me being able to understand the source of my suffering. I was very near my breaking point. It is getting better.

[rollercoaster24]

Hi all

Yep, I would have to say my exuBP scored a 9 as well, consistently and at least 4 days of every week I have known him.

From what his parents say, he has been like this now for the past 14 years, backwards and fowards, unstable, at times violent, (relying on them as backstop accommodation parasiting off them and then resenting them for it).

Since he is turning 46 in September this year, and he has been like this for 14 years, it must have coincided with him selling his properties, travelling around the country and also not being in employment now for 5 years.

My suspicion has always been that he has a meth habit, and I would not be at all surprised if that is why he has not applied for work in his industry for so long. To do so, he would have to pass a medical, of which drug testing is part of that medical.

He fits all the criteria for a meth user, the effects, the health, the aggression, and the finances, but he was also a child genius, at the age of 11 or so, they were considering him for university, he was apparently that bright...

There is also a fine line between genius and madness, (he is definately mad at times! and scarily so).

As for me?

I would say I have Anxiousness, and the Separation Insecurity, which only got activated when BP was abusing/dumping me again, (usually once a week or more for 3.5 years).

Right now, I still have the Anxiousness and the Separation Anxiety, but I am practising NC, since BP verbally abused me on Monday this week, and that was the last time I heard from him again.

I have not contacted him either, apart from sending a couple of texts, very brief and non-name calling.

The reason he dumped me this time?

He started his conversation with me in his usual snarling tone of voice, calling his elderly parents C***'s (because his Mother has been encouraging him to move on and out of their house. She has asked him to get rid of all the mechanical/other stuff he was hoarding there, since she wants to put their house on the market again and tidy it up more first.

After he called his parents that horrible word, he then called my daughter and her partner the same words, and I just had enough, I am sick of listening to the disgusting verbal refuse he uses about people I love and care about. So I told him to stop, I did not wish to hear him use that word about people I care about, and I don't agree with him, so he then screamed at me, "WELL F***OFF THEN, YOU F*****C***! slamming the phone down in my ear!

That was the last time he called me, and has avoided my two texts that night.  I have not tried to call him, and am trying to detach myself and move on once again. The heartbreak is still fresh, and the mild depression as is a partial lack of motivation for anything around my home, (reminds me of him) but each day will get easier I guess.

At least I am not listening to his rage on the phone every day, or worrying over his cheating, or what he is up to or where he is at nights anymore.

I must say I have been uncovering many more of his lies since the beginning of the week, and I am sure there are many more over the time he has been involved with me.

Our long distance relationship (which was living together in my rental for the first 2 years) sort of came to a halt in the last 2 months, since uBP's violent behaviour has slidden off the scales again over the last six months.

I saw him in person only twice over 2 months, (10/6, 7/7), and he assaulted me both times, there was no avoiding his rage and punishment, and I was lucky to escape with my life I believe.

Since then, he has recycled me several times, only via telephone, (although I really can't understand why) since he avoids meeting up in person and lies to me about being unwelcome at his parents.

Oh, then punishes me for the fact that we never spend any time together, (not for my lack of effort/financial input!).

From what he says, it actually annoys him that his parents make me welcome but they ask him to make plans to move on elsewhere as soon as he can.

They are actually at their wits end, and since his Mother, who was always his greatest supporter/enabler is the one who told him to start preparing to move on, he is acting out even more.

He also began verbally abusing her horribly more so in the last few months, where previously he would only denigrate her behind her back to me occasionally. This I believe was her reason for asking him to go, as her health at an elderly age cannot take his behaviour anymore.

I kind of feel she is also quite selfish, given her husband, (BP's Father) has been the target of all BP's hate and violence the whole time, just as I was.

There didn't seem much point in alerting him to the fact that his parents were only encouraging me to visit occasionally not live there like he has!

I am worried what I will do if he tries calling me again, and I will say I have had hang up calls every day since he last spoke to me on Monday, they are usually at the same time each day, (and I suspect it is him too).

I think he is merely checking up on me to see if I am at home, (which also tells me he is likely hanging out with his new supply and I also believe she may well have been a regular part of his life over the last six months.

I would almost bet I know who it is too.

All I can do, is take refuge in the fact that I am not silly enough to think that finding 'a new supply' will do me any good whatsoever!

I plan to stick to myself, work, accomplish lots of things I have left on the back-burner since being in such a whirlwind of drama since meeting BP so long ago.

Sorry for the long vent/post

Regards all

Roller

[LoneWolf768]

The fear of abandonment is such a paradox when they abandon us. She absolutely clung and hung on whenever I tried to end it. I really had to go over the top to get her to see it my way.

Perfidy, my ex was the EXACT same way! For almost 3 months, I heard how much she loved me and yet she could never commit to having me meet her family, meeting mine and even seeing me on a Saturday night for a few hours. She was very fond of telling me we weren't together until someone, that she perceived as a threat, came sniffing around. Then she would blame me and tell me "Well, how is you being friends with her  going to help us reconcile?" I was at a loss of words. This was last March. I'd had enough and changed my # (1 of at least 5 or 6 times I'd done this since January).After I did that, whoa boy! She threw the fits to end all fits! I explained for almost 3 months she was was keeping me at arms length, reminding me that we weren't together and only showing any interest in wanting to see me and reconcile when she felt someone was cutting in on her action. In April is when she sent me a text message and asked me to listen to Luke Bryan's 'I Knew You That Way.' I wasn't even deserving enough to hear her tell me she was done and share her thoughts with me. I received a text message and  song. Anytime she needed to share her feelings with me, it was through music - which is fine if it's in addition to - not instead of - words and actions.

Along with all the other things I said to her, I accused her of stringing me along until SHE was ready to end it. She didn't want ME to end it; SHE wanted to be in control of that. She would play the victim role so well ("You know what changing your # does to me", "I love you... . but maybe I shouldn't anymore", and "If you want me to call you and see you this weekend, I will but how can I when you changed your #?" and I'd fall for it every time. All kinds of promises and never followed through. So what you say is totally 100% spot on about how they detest rejection and abandonment but have NO trouble doing the rejecting and/or the abandoning. Such a contradiction.

[charred]

Clearmind, I am finding that as time goes on and I am alone that being honest with myself is making acceptance more solid. I have been detaching for many months now and all of the game playing is over. The mental anguish and depression are mine and mine alone. Being away from her and having no contact period are the two things that were essential to me being able to understand the source of my suffering. I was very near my breaking point. It is getting better.

Perfidy,

Good point... that being honest with yourself made the acceptance more solid.

I have noticed again and again that people on here will describe horrible things that have happened, deep betrayals, and then have added a comment that makes it clear that they are not ready to let go of the hope that the proven false illusion of the person they are with being their true love or soul mate, or someone that will work out happily ever after yet. went through the same thing, the detaching kept having a second guessing nature about it because I so wanted whatever it was that I thought my pwBPD gave me. Certainly not the heartache and pain, but perhaps the feeling emotions fully and the feeling of connectedness and aliveness... . which were confusing when being told that the initial attraction wasn't genuine but some kind of mirroring and false idealizing... it made it very hard to break the connection.

I kept about 10 of the very nastiest emails from my pwBPD, so that whenever I got close to recycling yet again, I could go back and read what this "loving" person of mine said to me... . vitriolic hatred is all that was in the emails... and yet I longed for her? It had to be an issue of mine and finally being honest with myself I accepted it was.