besides custody and money, what else is in your divorce agreement?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

I may want to put 2 things in:

1)  That he continues getting counseling and

2)  That he limits communication with me to issues about the children.

We already got an order for custody and have to go to mediation for money issues, but I want to put other stuff in the agreement too.

Were any of you able to do that? 

[momtara]

I may want to put 2 things in:

1)  That he continues getting counseling and

2)  That he limits communication with me to issues about the children.

We already got an order for custody and have to go to mediation for money issues, but I want to put other stuff in the agreement too.

Were any of you able to do that? 

[Matt]

Yeah, I put some stuff in... .

First, we got a Custody Evaluation, and the Custody Evaluator wrote a report with his recommendations, which included psychotherapy for my wife.  We put most of those recommendations into the settlement, and a few other things I thought would be good.

Consider listing all the things you would want, maybe even some that aren't too important.  Then be willing to give up the least important in order to keep the ones that are most important.  Being assertive like this means the game will be played on the field you choose - you'll be getting at least some of the things you want.

I wouldn't bother too much with the counseling issue though.  It will be seen as a win for you, but it's not really worth anything - if he goes he goes and if he doesn't he doesn't - it won't be enforced.  And if he goes to counseling and spends each hour telling stories, what will be accomplished?

(My ex ignored that requirement - written into the court order - and she has received no consequences.)

[livednlearned]

Hi momtara,

I'm not sure what was included in your custody agreement, but some other things that could be useful:

If you anticipate any international travel, maybe include something that makes it so you can get passports for the kids (it's required that both parents sign), and that he must sign a letter of consent to permit the kids to travel across borders without him.

In the financial stuff, it's common to include the % of medical, dental, and college he is expected to contribute.

Do you have something about decision-making? What will you do if he does not cooperate or disagrees?

[momtara]

Matt - what were some of the more important recommendations?

Thanks.

[Matt]

Matt - what were some of the more important recommendations?

Thanks.

Well they were specific to our case... .

Just from memory, here are some the psychologist wrote:

* 50/50 for now.

* S(then)8 seems to repsond better to Dad, and that may be more true as he grows, so parents should consider more time with Dad in the future.

* Mom's MMPI-2 indicates multiple psychological disoders, so psychotherapy is recommended.

* Dad (Matt) is seeing a counselor for depression and reports that it is helpful, so it is recommended that he continue.

* Kids are seeing a counselor and Dad reports that is helpful so they should continue.

* Neither parent should discuss the other parent's psych eval for the details of this case with the kids.

I added to that:

* Dad will drop kids off at Mom's residence, and pick them up there.

* Communication between the parents will be pimarily by e-mail unless there is an urgent need for phone or face-to-face.

* Schools will be asked to communicate with both parents.

* Dr. Psychologist will be asked to recommend a professional who can serve as a parenting coach, and both parents will meet with that person approximately once every 60 days, to discuss any issues of concern.  Parents will split the cost.

and some other stuff I can't remember.

The other stuff I put in wasn't too important and got negotiated away, in exchange for what's above - acceptance of all the Custody Evaluator's recommendations and these points I added.

[catnap]

That he limits communication with me to issues about the children.

OFW--Our Family Wizard www.ourfamilywizard.com/ofw/ might be something to look into.

"Increase the peace, end high conflict parenting in divorce and shield your children."

[momtara]

Very helpful.  Thanks!  Especially:

* Communication between the parents will be pimarily by e-mail unless there is an urgent need for phone or face-to-face.

[Matt]

Very helpful.  Thanks!  Especially:

* Communication between the parents will be pimarily by e-mail unless there is an urgent need for phone or face-to-face.

Yes, but don't fight over this;  you can adopt this discipline even if it's not in the court order.

[momtara]

Yep.  I have already asked for things to be that way, via email. 

[Matt]

Yep.  I have already asked for things to be that way, via email. 

So quit asking, just do it.

Don't call her, pick up her calls, or return her calls, unless she leaves a message indicating it's an emergency.

Don't agree to see her face-to-face.

Send her information about the kids by e-mail - very short notes - just the facts, no emotions.

If she sends you an e-mail with emotions or old history, ignore that stuff, and only respond to what is appropriate and pertains to the kids.

[livednlearned]

Unfortunately, the first two items you mention won't likely get paid much attention by him, even if it's in a court order, but it's good to put in there. That way, if you end up filing motions for contempt over more serious matters, you can also bring these items up to emphasize the pattern of behavior -- that he cannot regulate his impulses and follow the order he agreed to. And when you phrase your succinct email responses (if he calls or texts you when it should be email only), you can copy and paste what it says in the order.

I hope things go ok for you. 

[momtara]

I think he will fight those two things anyway, and not want them in the agreement.  I will have to compromise in some regards (like agree to get therapy myself if he does), but I hope it can stay in there.  It would be silly for the case to go to trial over just that!  Because the other stuff I think we will work out.

[livednlearned]

I think he will fight those two things anyway, and not want them in the agreement.  I will have to compromise in some regards (like agree to get therapy myself if he does), but I hope it can stay in there.  It would be silly for the case to go to trial over just that!  Because the other stuff I think we will work out.

Does he listen to his L? If so, those are things the L would tell him are not worth fighting for. If he's a good L. Plus, "Continue to get counseling" is a way easier pill to swallow than "start counseling!" And it should be standard language to limit communication only to issues that pertain to the minor child/ren.  And if he does fight the counseling thing, it makes him look bad in the eyes of the court. Maybe your L can keep a sentence in there that says "Parties do not agree on the defendant's need to continue counseling."

That's what mine said about decision-making, and we were still able to settle 98% of everything else.

[nevaeh]

very helpful information.  will definitely be back to this string later.  Also the website looks very helpful as well.

[momtara]

I don't know if he's a good L... . but my husband is difficult (yeah, surprise!) so I don't know if he listens.  Plus he hears what he wants to hear.  But it's good to know that he shouldn't fight that.