Can some one answer this question for me.

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

If these people are so mental and so sick and they cant control this mean behavior, how come they are not sending 400 text to their boss over the weekend when they are upset with him.   How come they are not calling the guy at the grocery store or the gas station or anywhere for that matter a liar or dishonest when ever they feel wrong.   This is crock to me.   I am so angry I could  just throw the computer across the room.   You know who the problem is.   Me.   Cause I am so stupid and gullible and dumb to listen to this same stuff over and over and over.    I think he is totally a narcissist who just gets a rise out of ticking me off.  I told him today.   Go back to therapy or find someone else.   I am tired of wasting my time even thinking of him.   He doesn't care about anyone but himself.   One more projection one more after I keep doing all this stuff for him, I swear I will be committed in an institution myself.    So, why do I get the pleasure of his BullSh#t.  And everyone else things he is just swell.   

[drv3006]

If these people are so mental and so sick and they cant control this mean behavior, how come they are not sending 400 text to their boss over the weekend when they are upset with him.   How come they are not calling the guy at the grocery store or the gas station or anywhere for that matter a liar or dishonest when ever they feel wrong.   This is crock to me.   I am so angry I could  just throw the computer across the room.   You know who the problem is.   Me.   Cause I am so stupid and gullible and dumb to listen to this same stuff over and over and over.    I think he is totally a narcissist who just gets a rise out of ticking me off.  I told him today.   Go back to therapy or find someone else.   I am tired of wasting my time even thinking of him.   He doesn't care about anyone but himself.   One more projection one more after I keep doing all this stuff for him, I swear I will be committed in an institution myself.    So, why do I get the pleasure of his BullSh#t.  And everyone else things he is just swell.   

[Cipher13]

I have wondered the same thing. If i listen to my wife talk about other people or situations I have determined that often enough she totally wants to go off at them in the same way.  Then I remembered something my T said to me. A child (thats more or less what they are) tends to act up more strongly around there parents because they will accept them no matter what.  But in public around strangers they see that if they act out they might not be accepted by the group.

Now this doesn't describe evenone  or even all kids but to me it seemed liek a valid point. The other thing is that you give your husband what he needs from these outbursts and arages where as strangers will not.

You like me don't really like to get pleasure fromt he BS but we are a glutten for out own punishments. At least I know I am.  I thought I could do things different and she would then be happier with me. Then also she is the queen of guilt manipulation. It messes with your head.

Sometimes after reading others posts and realizing we are all going through very similar things I thing we are alread commited in an institution. Through others you will be able to help yourself. I still need a mountain of help and I to am at the edge of my rope. Good luck with everything.

[Foreverhopefull]

IMHO, we are right there to hear it all and they can unload the whole bag on us and because it's us, they won't face the same consequences.

If they go about their rant to their boss directly, they will be fired within a heartbeat... . with us, they still have a job on monday and they are calmer by then too. If they rant and rage o others, they will face greater consequences than having an upset spouse.

I prefer that I get his rants and rages, I have the tools and knowledge to try and defuse him, other people might react to him and that will have dire consequences. Like I remind him, he has 40 years of rage in him, if he lets it go haywire, he won't be able to shut it off.

It's not fun and it is sad that we are pretty much their "pushing bags" (figuratively of course), but when I think what I'm able to do with him, I know I saved him from years of prison.

[drv3006]

Thank you cipher.   I am so tired.   I took days off work to go to his surgery.  I was like his father who beat him, I was like his ex.   He demands aplogies for things    I try validating I try everything.  I am looking at wedding phots of his ex I am listening to him tell me I am controlling and a liar and dishonest.   I can't take it anymore.   Everything this man yells at me about is all the stuff he does.   Sometimes I just think they learned that playing the victim or being a bully works and that's just it.  Like anything else.  Mental.   I can hardly believe it any more.  Just plain mean.  Then when I stoop to his level.  Which I swear is exactly what he wants so he can chew me out even more, then I am the crazy one.   I don't get it.   I just don't get it.   I can never have an emotion.   I can never feel bad.  Always always has something that makes me an ungrateful b#tch.   I have never in my life done more, gave up more cried more for someone who still sucks the life right out of me.   Emotional vampire.  And I can't figure out where I belong on this board because guilt and fear keeps me from leaving.  Logic tells me to get out and the personal inventory tells me that it is me.   I feel like a big mess.    I have blocked him from everything now.  Ask you to apologize I do.  I apologized wrong.   So I do it again.  Now its different from the first apology so i am a liar.  Its just stupid.  Over and over and over.  I am so mad at myself for falling for this.   I must really hate myself to put up with this.   Today over 60 text after 400 yesterday.   I did not read these 60.  I can't listen to him tell me off over and over.   I called him a freak.  So I am not nice anymore and i feel like the dumbest person. on the face of the earth.  :)o you think he cares about my feelings.  No, You all know he don't.   How can I possibly love someone one who cannot love back.  What is wrong with me.  Ugh.  I was so mean after all those text yesterday.  Here comes the guilt  

[drv3006]

Foreverhopeful.  You have the patience of a saint.   I guess I don't.  I think he needs someone with more self esteem.   I don't have that.   I can't be belittled time after time after time and be told that I am doing that to him.   How did you do it.   Really How did you do it.

[Cipher13]

  I can hardly believe it any more.  Just plain mean.  Then when I stoop to his level.  Which I swear is exactly what he wants so he can chew me out even more, then I am the crazy one.

Thats just it. That is what they want. When you retalliate and stoop to there level that is what they want for the reasons you mention. Now I have never done this. I have tried to stoop to see if its any different than the approach I was using which was just accept and stay calm. FYI that is less than helpful aslo.  You will be blamed for doing nothing and not caring jsuta s much.

[Cipher13]

How come they are not calling the guy at the grocery store or the gas station or anywhere for that matter a liar or dishonest when ever they feel wrong.   

One more thing about them not behaving this way to or around others... . I find that I feel the most relaxed when I am around other people with her. Then I know I am not goig to get the rages... . until we are alone anyway. But we now have so few poeple in our lives that she allows us to be around its her parents and thats it.

[hellokitty4]

Foreverhopeful.  You have the patience of a saint.   I guess I don't.  I think he needs someone with more self esteem.   I don't have that.   I can't be belittled time after time after time and be told that I am doing that to him.   How did you do it.   Really How did you do it.

I think the key is to detach and not take things personally or to heart.  They say things out of anger... . and they take it out on us. The root of the problem is rarely ever us and they know it. It is difficult not to take things personally... . there should be a heart barrier so as not to upset us.  What has helped me is I try not to dwell and ruminate over the mean words. Her rages or emotional instability often occurs after she's had alcohol. A perfectly good day can turn bad as soon as alcohol is involved.

I agree that they do show their true selves to those they are comfortable with... . to those they know will always be there for them no matter what. My best friend is this way and this is why I get raged on. Unfortunately for me, her husband thinks I'm the one usually raging on her... . if he only knew. Sometimes I think he should thank me for saving him from all the outbursts.

[Cipher13]

Sometimes I think he should thank me for saving him from all the outbursts.

If truley did know thats so right. He should be so greatful. Knowing what know now I don't want that to happen to anyone I know.

[eyvindr]

drv3006, Cipher and hellokitty --

It's hard and eery to read this stuff. So many similarities those of us who have found these boards have all been through. I'm sorry for all of us who struggle to maintain our sanity while trying to maintain r-ships with loved ones wBPD.

You ask a good question here, drv3006 -- I think it touches upon one of the key, fundamental components of BPD:

If these people are so mental and so sick and they can't control this mean behavior, how come they are not sending 400 texts to their boss over the weekend when they are upset with him? How come they are not calling the guy at the grocery store or the gas station or anywhere for that matter a liar or dishonest when ever they feel wrong?... . I told him today. Go back to therapy or find someone else. I am tired of wasting my time even thinking of him. He doesn't care about anyone but himself. One more projection one more after I keep doing all this stuff for him, I swear I will be committed in an institution myself. So, why do I get the pleasure of his BullSh#t. And everyone else thinks he is just swell.   

BPD is rooted in and triggered by abandonment issues. You can't be abandoned by someone who isn't connected to you. In a romantic r-ship, we're connected to our partners in so many ways, the primary one being intimacy. One of the saddest features of BPD is that abandonment fears are triggered by intimacy -- once our partners get a taste of and feel the good side of intimacy, it's almost as if they immediately become terrified of losing it. This fear creates unmanageable (for them) levels of anxiety, and they dysregulate -- which often takes them form of them lashing out at us for things that we haven't done, and no amount of trying to explain or reason with them seems to work. That's when it feels hopeless.

In my case, the more I've learned about the disease, the better I've been able to manage my own emotions and responses to it -- but, in every case, in the end, it's caused me to pull further away from my partner -- to detach emotionally, in order to preserve my own emotional well-being. People with BPD don't have healthy emotional boundaries. Emotionally, they need to be the primary object of attention, love and caring for everyone they're close to -- immediate family, lovers, friends, children, siblings, etc. They lack a solid core sense of "self," and spend the bulk of their energy trying to create a person that they feel will be most loved and accepted and treasured by the people close to them, in order to prevent us from abandoning them. But, in doing so, they make unreasonable demands on all of us to see things their way, to always agree with them, to never question any of their beliefs, perceptions or feelings -- even though a primary symptom of BPD is to have inappropriate emotional reactions to things. For pwBPD, there is no difference between facts and feelings -- everything they feel is a fact to them, so they feel that everything they feel is real. Because they can't self-soothe during times of heightened emotion (when they're anxious, or afraid, or sad, or tired, etc.), they aren't able to process negative feelings in themselves, and so they project them outward -- they find reasons and people outside of themselves to blame for making them feel the way they do, as a survival coping mechanism, in order to stop the pain that they are feeling.

drv3006 -- it's a very complex illness, and being involved with pwBPD is very complicated and demanding. Their behavior leaves you exasperated, and our efforts to avoid things that cause them to dysregulate is emotionally exhausting -- because nothing seems to stick. What works one time doesn't necessarily work the next. What didn't upset them today may very well upset them tomorrow. They keep repeating the same behaviors, and then apologize for it and promise not to repeat it -- but they do. They can't take it when we're upset by their behavior, because it immediately triggers the abandonment fears in them again, and this infuriates them and makes them see us as "bad," as their enemies, as opposed to the people who love them the most.

I don't know if any of this helps you better understand why your partner behaves the way he does, and I certainly don't mean for it to excuse any of his behavior. Even if he can't control it, he is responsible for it. And your responses to it are completely normal -- when people treat us poorly, after we've tried so hard to be understanding, eventually we run out of patience and energy! We're human, just like them! It's unrealistic -- not to mention unfair -- for anyone to expect anyone else to *never* lose patience with them when their behaviors are at times appalling. Don't beat yourself up.

I'm not sure where you are in your r-ship -- I'll presume from your post here on the "Staying" board that you want to continue to see if you can work things out. Have you read about the "Tools" here? Again, I'm sorry that you're dealing with this -- know that you're in good company here. If you need to get things off your chest, or bounce your feelings off of other people, you know you're in the right place. 

Hang in there.

[Scout99]

Thank you cipher.   I am so tired.   I took days off work to go to his surgery.  I was like his father who beat him, I was like his ex.   He demands aplogies for things    I try validating I try everything.  I am looking at wedding phots of his ex I am listening to him tell me I am controlling and a liar and dishonest.   I can't take it anymore.   Everything this man yells at me about is all the stuff he does.   Sometimes I just think they learned that playing the victim or being a bully works and that's just it.  Like anything else.  Mental.   I can hardly believe it any more.  Just plain mean.  Then when I stoop to his level.  Which I swear is exactly what he wants so he can chew me out even more, then I am the crazy one.   I don't get it.   I just don't get it.   I can never have an emotion.   I can never feel bad.  Always always has something that makes me an ungrateful b#tch.   I have never in my life done more, gave up more cried more for someone who still sucks the life right out of me.   Emotional vampire.  And I can't figure out where I belong on this board because guilt and fear keeps me from leaving.  Logic tells me to get out and the personal inventory tells me that it is me.   I feel like a big mess.    I have blocked him from everything now.  Ask you to apologize I do.  I apologized wrong.   So I do it again.  Now its different from the first apology so i am a liar.  Its just stupid.  Over and over and over.  I am so mad at myself for falling for this.   I must really hate myself to put up with this.   Today over 60 text after 400 yesterday.   I did not read these 60.  I can't listen to him tell me off over and over.   I called him a freak.  So I am not nice anymore and i feel like the dumbest person. on the face of the earth.  :)o you think he cares about my feelings.  No, You all know he don't.   How can I possibly love someone one who cannot love back.  What is wrong with me.  Ugh.  I was so mean after all those text yesterday.  Here comes the guilt  

This sounds like a much needed and a long awaited vent! You go girl! 

I know exactly how you feel! The confusing contradictions... . The thousands of texts... . Te demands for my apology and then the discard from it... . Dysregulation sucks! There is no doubt about it! It sucks!

And you are right! He has learned this behavior works way back when in his childhood... . Probably then it was a needed survival skill... . The problem is you don't treat him the way, whomever hurt him in his past did... . But he has never learned to make a difference in behavior towards different situations within the realm of an intimate relationship... . So he does what he knows best, and it works... . Because you dance like a puppet to his strings... . These techniques works... . But he should not be using them towards you... . And he doesn't understand that, because of the BPD... . He gets he cant treat his boss that way... . But the boss doesn't represent intimacy or love to him... . Boss also gives out a presence of respect... . We as partners often don't... .

And that is where we come in... . and in some ways makes things worse... . Because somehow in our past we also have learned or picked up on some rather dysfunctional behaviors... . We have learned either to give give give, in order to receive... . Or we have learned to expect to be treated badly and still cope with it... . or feel like we deserve it... . make excuses for other peoples behaviors and so on... . And within the realm of the relationship we have often also pushed our own needs aside, since they didn't seem to fit into the frame anyway, so we have lost touch with ourselves... . But under the surface our feelings brew... . And finally, like you today - they get to come out!

So no matter where this will take you or your relationship - give yourself a good pat on the shoulder now and say thanks myself for letting go of that steam! I needed it!. Now what?

Best Wishes

Scout99

[Foreverhopefull]

It took me years to be able to separate what is mine and what is the rest of the world. I still trip from time to time.

My thing is that when I see that I'm getting sucked in or I'm getting even more upset and angry with the things he is saying, I leave. Either the room or even the house and as I'm leaving I just say "I need to get myself together again before we can discuss this further. Give me some time to do so and then we can continue talking if you wish."... . then I immediately leave without looking back. If I don't leave right away, it's worst. I get the whole guilt trip going and everything.

[maryy16]

My H tells me that he gets more upset with me than anyone else because he "expects more out of me". Which, of course, means that I can't do anything right because what he "expects" is perfection... . and perfection is a term defined in his own mind.

After our last argument, he told me that he was going to "treat me like a co-worker" because he has no problems with his coworkers because he doesn't expect anything from them.  I said, "good, if that will solve our problems, then by all means treat me like a co-worker".

Well, of course, he then went overboard with it because that wasn't the answer he expected.  When I asked him a question about something the next day he replied "I don't talk to my co-workers about that, so I don't really care what you do.  Don't be asking me anything". 

My reply was "Boy, you were just waiting around to use that line on me, weren't you?" Of course, he didn't answer me.

[briefcase]

People with BPD are always hardest on the people closest to them. And, it can be wearing to be in that position.  You sound tired and a desperate for change.  Understandable.  

And, yes, people with BPD do have the ability to control themselves under some circumstances.  So, why doesn't he choose to control himself around you?  It's a good question, and a hard one to answer honestly.

We often teach people how they can treat us.  He's doing what works for him - as dysfunctional as it might be.  If you want to think of him as an "emotional vampire" (an analogy that feels right in the early stages of understanding BPD, but which doesn't really hold up over time) then it helps to also think of yourself as a willing blood donor for him.  Sure, it hurts like hell, but you keep letting him do it, over and over.  See, I told you an honest answer is hard.    

It feels good to get this off your chest and vent - we've all done it - but your path to change is 100% in your control, no matter what your husband does or doesn't do.  It might help to work through the Choosing a Path links on the right side of this board.      

[maxsterling]

My dBPDgf does treat others about the same way she treats me. Her dad, her employers, friends, and even therapists.

I suspect that is the same with your pwBPD, it's just that you aren't aware of it. 

[briefcase]

My dBPDgf does treat others about the same way she treats me. Her dad, her employers, friends, and even therapists.

I suspect that is the same with your pwBPD, it's just that you aren't aware of it. 

There is some truth in this too.  My wife has also treated some strangers poorly for little or no reason.  It happens.  They do have a personality disorder afterall.

It's important to remember that we have a lot more control over our lives (even in these relationships) than we give ourselves credit for.  It's about looking at ourselves (not as victims) and taking control.  It can be done.

[DreamFlyer99]

drv, you said:

I just don't get it.   I can never have an emotion.   I can never feel bad.  Always always has something that makes me an ungrateful b#tch.   I have never in my life done more, gave up more cried more for someone who still sucks the life right out of me.

I've been there! in the earlier days, when everything was falling down on my head from the BPD closet, but I didn't KNOW that's what it was, I felt so much like that! "What the h*ll?" i was screaming on the inside. SO VERY MUCH like that.

And then my therapist started pointing me toward understanding. And then i found this site. And i started learning and reading and practicing and asking questions, cuz so much of what i learned here was an entirely different approach to responding.

And then i started feeling better--believing again in who i am, not what somebody who sees things from a slant thinks. And my self confidence has grown.

I don't know the future, but i do know how much i am capable of learning and growing and developing new skills, and i'm doing the best i can to become the best me i can be. And how can that be a bad thing?

When i first came to the site somebody tried to tell me how she had learned some new skills and how things were improving with her husband, and i thought, "yeh sure." (insert jaded laugh here.) And i'm not negative by nature, but this whole rodeo has put me in some seriously bad moods! But now, headed toward 3 months here, i have learned some skills, and the r/s with my husband is improving... . Weird. She was telling the truth.

i guess i'm trying to encourage you and hopefully not just piss you off. i'm much more deeply rooted in the truth of the situation now with my H, and feeling more in charge of my life.

It can happen.