keeping custody

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

I have temp custody of my kids from BPD wife and need to keep it that way.   She always put them in danger with her bad decsions and associates.

This last couple of months have been hell.   My wife used the kids as pawns for years to get her way.   The few times I got sick of her crap and called her out she would walk out the door with my kids.

This is the last time.    She walked out on me and took my kids to Canada without my permission.   She is from there and the kids are dual citizens.   She demanded a divorce, custody, and child support from me or I would not see my kids.   She even cashed a $1800 check for child support.

I had enough.   I filed for emergency custody and started down the Hauge convention of international abduction.    She was gone for 2+ weeks with the kids bouncing from women's shelters and her boyfriend/girlfriends homes.    She has a lot of men chasing her and she gladly accepts there help.    My kids went through hell for those 2 weeks.   I only spoke to them for 15 minutes that whole time.   It was emotionally devestating.

The court here quickly ordered the kids back to the county where we lived.   She brought them back to me and I have had them since.   We had our first temporary custody hearing and she basically gave me the kids.    She is allowed to visit 2 weekends a month.   She is so far away it will end up being less then 24 hrs per visit.

The judge didn't really listen to anything either of us had to say.   She was in a hurry and just tried to solve the couple problems.   Wife moved 6 hrs away, no car, no job, no home.   Judge ordered me to buy her a car!    So she can visit the kids.    I also have to vacate our family home when she visits them here.

Now I have to do everything I can to try to keep custody of them.   We own our home here.   The kids are in school here.   What shocks me is the judge didn't seem to care that my wife was moving so far away and just leaving the kids behind to start a new life.

Now though my wife realizes that she is going to owe me child support.   She is ready to fight for custody.    She is unwilling to live anywhere, but 6 hours from here though.   If she gets any kind of custody my kids life will be hell.   She is already onto her second relationship since leaving.   She is already accusing me of emotional abuse, financial abuse, child abuse, sexual abuse to the kids.   All of it is untrue and unfounded.   I have a fair amount of proof contrary to a lot of it and proves she is the abuser.

We agreed to an "Guardian ad Litem" to represent the kids.   I don't how that will go.   The kids ADORE there mom.   She was fun and non-stop entertainment for them.   I think they will all say they want to live with her.   They are all 10 and under.    They also heard mom put me down non-stop for their whole lives.   So they assume I am the one in the wrong.    My only chance is if the guardian interviews people that know us.   Even my wifes friends know I did most of the child rearing and she is off her rocker.

I ordered the book "splitting".   I can't wait to read it.   I need help to protect these kids from her and her family.   Her family primarly her mother are extremely abusive - physical/emotional/sexual.    It is almost like BPD is a generational problem in her family with all the women.

[suffering_parent]

I have temp custody of my kids from BPD wife and need to keep it that way.   She always put them in danger with her bad decsions and associates.

This last couple of months have been hell.   My wife used the kids as pawns for years to get her way.   The few times I got sick of her crap and called her out she would walk out the door with my kids.

This is the last time.    She walked out on me and took my kids to Canada without my permission.   She is from there and the kids are dual citizens.   She demanded a divorce, custody, and child support from me or I would not see my kids.   She even cashed a $1800 check for child support.

I had enough.   I filed for emergency custody and started down the Hauge convention of international abduction.    She was gone for 2+ weeks with the kids bouncing from women's shelters and her boyfriend/girlfriends homes.    She has a lot of men chasing her and she gladly accepts there help.    My kids went through hell for those 2 weeks.   I only spoke to them for 15 minutes that whole time.   It was emotionally devestating.

The court here quickly ordered the kids back to the county where we lived.   She brought them back to me and I have had them since.   We had our first temporary custody hearing and she basically gave me the kids.    She is allowed to visit 2 weekends a month.   She is so far away it will end up being less then 24 hrs per visit.

The judge didn't really listen to anything either of us had to say.   She was in a hurry and just tried to solve the couple problems.   Wife moved 6 hrs away, no car, no job, no home.   Judge ordered me to buy her a car!    So she can visit the kids.    I also have to vacate our family home when she visits them here.

Now I have to do everything I can to try to keep custody of them.   We own our home here.   The kids are in school here.   What shocks me is the judge didn't seem to care that my wife was moving so far away and just leaving the kids behind to start a new life.

Now though my wife realizes that she is going to owe me child support.   She is ready to fight for custody.    She is unwilling to live anywhere, but 6 hours from here though.   If she gets any kind of custody my kids life will be hell.   She is already onto her second relationship since leaving.   She is already accusing me of emotional abuse, financial abuse, child abuse, sexual abuse to the kids.   All of it is untrue and unfounded.   I have a fair amount of proof contrary to a lot of it and proves she is the abuser.

We agreed to an "Guardian ad Litem" to represent the kids.   I don't how that will go.   The kids ADORE there mom.   She was fun and non-stop entertainment for them.   I think they will all say they want to live with her.   They are all 10 and under.    They also heard mom put me down non-stop for their whole lives.   So they assume I am the one in the wrong.    My only chance is if the guardian interviews people that know us.   Even my wifes friends know I did most of the child rearing and she is off her rocker.

I ordered the book "splitting".   I can't wait to read it.   I need help to protect these kids from her and her family.   Her family primarly her mother are extremely abusive - physical/emotional/sexual.    It is almost like BPD is a generational problem in her family with all the women.

[momtara]

Gosh, I am sorry that this is happening and that you have so many fears of the unknowns.

I don't have experience with GAL's but hopefully they have more time than a judge who is in a hurry.  The fact that the court had to order the kids back to you may help you.

Hang in there.  You sound like a good dad.

Courts don't often change the status quo, so hopefully they will make this permanent.  For now, stay calm but document, so she looks bad, not you.

[ForeverDad]

The good thing is that you have majority parenting time from the start!  Amazing!  However, your gender, despite protests to the contrary that the law is gender neutral, exposes you to risks that your good start could be upset, even reversed, at some point.  After all, you're only a father.   Unless she comes back though or cons all the professionals, odds are the judge will be inclined to keep the kids in their current schools.  Beware of "feature creep" - a term used by developers where little by little constant changes ruin an excellent concept.  The court may chip away at your good start so that's why it's important to keep the focus on the kids' welfare, not on being fair to the mother.

You leaving while she comes to visit - helicopter parenting - is probably a short term arrangement.  Unless you're independently wealthy it will be impractical over time.  It shouldn't become permanent.

Unless you have financial reserves or material assets, don't buy her a new or expensive car.  (If not ordered to pay the insurance, future repairs, fuel, etc, then don't pay anything more.  Niceness and generosity won't be reciprocated.)  Side point: Will you be compensated in the final division of marital assets if anything survives the financial drain of divorce?

A guardian ad Litem (GAL) can be a positive or a negative, it all depends on how experienced and perceptive the GAL is.  After all, many are lawyers and may not have much training in the mental health aspects, especially when it comes to expert blamers and manipulators, hallmarks of BPD and other acting out PDs.  My son got one my lawyer called the best but still made some bonehead recommendations.  One was to keep parenting time at 50/50 when I got custody, because (1) son was okay with it (only after mother bamboozled him right after the GAL was appointed) and (2) then she could get child support and be more stable.  No, all it did was enable her to keep on acting just as she always had behaved.

Another vital book for you is Divorce Poison by Richard Warshak.  In his introduction he emphasized that you can't stand by silently while the other parent is undermining you.  You have to actively and proactively make your case to the kids that you are an excellent parent.  Without bashing your kids' other parent you need to demonstrate clearly that you are a good father and teach them good manners and principles.  Help them to think for themselves, not just react to mother's constant emotional manipulations. 

[suffering_parent]

Thanks for the advice.

I am sure the "helicopter" parenting is temporary.   It only works because we are still married and the family home is considered community property.

After divorce who knows what will happen.    I was ordered only $1500 for the car.   We have very little in assets and a bit of debt.   If it gets 50/50 split we both just end up with debt.     I do have a good income so it won't hurt me to much.   I have been giving her other money because while still married I guess she has rights to 1/2 my paycheck after debt under community property.    She is pleading for more of course.

She is choosing to live 6 hours from where we lived.   She is already in her next relationship with some very young kid with no job/no car/living with parents.

I don't really know what is going to happen.   It scares me.   She is making so many crazy claims against me that are untrue.   Book arrives today, hopefully it will help too.

[ForeverDad]

I have been giving her other money because while still married I guess she has rights to 1/2 my paycheck after debt under community property.

I would get local legal advice on how much to reduce the voluntary amount you give her.  Besides debts you also have to pay community property expenses (mortgage or rent, utilities, repairs, etc) as well as the children's expenses.

She is pleading for more of course.

Of course.  But she will only get what you give or what the court orders you to give.  (So far all it has order is a little money for an inexpensive care.  Did the court tell you to pay her other spousal support?  If not, was that a subtle message to you from the court?)  Too often we give more than we should.  Remember, just because she pleads or complains doesn't mean it's valid or justifiable.

[david]

If the court ordered you to buy a car for 1500 and you can afford it then just give her a check for that amount and write on the check that it is for her to purchase a car. Let her decide how to spend it.

Document , document, document. Eventually that should pay off.

[momtara]

but she might spend it on something else and then he has to give her more money for a car! i'd think about this.

um, a 1500 car won't last long... .

[suffering_parent]

Ya there is no ordered spousal support.   My L told me technically I owe her half after debts.   I have all 4 kids though and they pretty much take the rest of our disposable income.   Again she is homeless, jobless, and money less.   I don't want to look bad to the judge... .

She had a job lined up at a taco place,but after meeting her new jobless/car less/living with parents man wants to live his life style of no job.   She of course is getting some gov't assistence also.

I gave her the $1500 for the car and have been living off a credit card since.   With four kids and a wife who spent like crazy I have very little money.   And now paying for a Lawyer... . already blew through 3k just to get temp custody.

Her rant against me for the last year is not buying her a honda civic she wanted so bad.   We just didn't have the money for it.   So now she has the opportunity and she buys a 2 door cavalier.   That will be fun for the kids to squeeze into.

[ForeverDad]

One problem most here have is also one of our better qualities - our sense of selfless fairness.  Probably that's a factor that attracted our dysfunctional spouses to us, that we made good targets and they realized we'd do them right to our last breath.  But that otherwise fine quality is a distinct disadvantage when stumbling into a divorce.

I recall my ex telling me in early years together that she had young men chasing after her but the were too macho for her.  As I look back on how my gentle spirit was abused, I now wonder whether she subconsciously knew they'd be too firm with her, that she couldn't bend them to her will as she did with me in the later years.  I'll never know for sure.  (By the way, we had a double standard even from the beginning, though I didn't realize it until later.  She was allowed to talk about the guys who chased her but I wasn't allowed to even admit I had ever had an interest in any other women in the past.)

So you were told you had to split the income with her as community property.  Technically true.  But if the roles were reversed, do you think she would willingly and fairly split income as you are doing?  Yeah, I thought not.  And guess what, in many cases there aren't big consequences.  (A saying around here... . The person misbehaving seldom gets consequences and the person behaving seldom gets credit.  Ponder that.)

That said, I know you won't do to her what she would do to you without a second's hesitation.  However, I think you ought to ramp back your anxiety to follow the letter of the law while ignoring the added costs of raising the children by yourself.  You can't and shouldn't feed and house your kids with credit cards.  You won't last long doing that.

• You're working.  She apparently isn't even trying.



• You're paying for your housing, utilities, insurance, etc.  She's living rent free.



• You're paying for all the kids' expenses and costs.  She isn't, except maybe some small things bought with your money.



• You're sweating bullets to parent day and night.  She just helicopters in for a day or two.



• You're not getting any government handouts.  She is.



• You're trying to do the right thing.  She isn't.

Do you see the contrast?  Rather than live off credit cards - which you can't do for long - I believe you ought to bend your sense of fairness and doing the right thing just enough so you're not sabotaging yourself or your children financially.  If you don't share enough with her now, then that can be balanced out later, but I'm fairly sure you will get some credit in the financial reconciliation later on for your child expenses and other expenses that far exceed her

Also, court will almost certainly not require her to reimburse you if you 'gift' her too much.  If you underpay her so that you can support the children without digging a deep financial hole for yourself, I don't think you'll get into too much trouble.  (As in, It's easier to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission.)

Here's a brain exercise.  Get your state's child support calculator.  Some websites even offer the bare bones calculators online to give you a ballpark idea of what a court in your state might order.  Plug in your incomes, reversed so you have no income except government assistance and she's the one earning income.  How much child support would you get?  That's probably a lowball figure your state uses to estimate contributions to be made to help the other parent raise children.  So next time you are ready to send her her stash of cash why not deduct some of that as earmarked for the children's expenses (food, housing, clothing, school fees, some entertainment, etc).

Frankly, she will squeal like a stuck pig no matter how much you give her or don't give her.  Her demands, pleas and insinuations will never end, you'll never be able to gift her enough to make her stop.  It's called Entitlement.  And giving in to her entitlement can easily become Enabling.  Yes, you have to give her something, but beware of being too fair, too nice, too generous, too whatever.  All you need to say is, "there were a lot of bills to pay, this is all I had left to share with you."  Big or little, whatever you send her will not be appreciated and very likely court won't care if you send her a little less... . or else court would have made a spousal support order.  But court didn't, it only made you pay for her to get a car.  Did the judge even mention support for her?  If so, how interested was the judge?  Likely the judge noted that you were the one caring for the children and never pushed that issue.

I forget the member's user name but a few years ago we had a member who was separated and he was paying over to his wife and kids everything he earned except for a very small amount for food and he was living on a couch in a friend's home.  He too felt he had to hand over so much to show he was not treating her wrong.  In time he came to realize how he had simply been gifting her way too much.

No one here can tell you what to do.  We can make suggestions, share ideas and strategies that worked more often than not, but the rest is up to you.  Besides, this is peer support, we're not practicing law here.

[suffering_parent]

Ya I don't want to give her any more money, but she wants gas money to come see the kids.   I bet she won't come and blame me if I don't provide it.

I am pretty closed to tapped out on money.   My lawyer calculated the child support and she would owe me around $300 per month in support if it was ordered.

I don't think the judge mentioned spousel support.   I am getting the transcripts tomorrow to go over it.

[ForeverDad]

Is that based on her actual income (near zero) or her imputed income, what she could earn of she would find job?

So if child support wasn't ordered and spousal support probably wasn't ordered either, likely you just need to be reasonable but not too fair nor generous.  That's not in the "best interests of the children".  Keep that in mind.

My ex has 3 state licenses in her line of work, yet court has always imputed her income at minimum wage since she has never brought proof of income and no one has forced her to produce it.

[suffering_parent]

Ya, it is her imputed income based on minimum wage job.   She has had a lot of random jobs in the past.   Never was able to hold one down though.

I will probably give her some money for gas to get here, but that's about it.   I feel like she needs to be forced to grow up and get a job.

[Forward2free]

 I feel like she needs to be forced to grow up and get a job.

Agreed. I carried my unemployed BPD/Nxh for 9 years as he strutted through life, pretending to be a rock star and bringing home money sporadically from gigs. He was just misunderstood and the record industry were out to punish him... .

I worked longer, harder, got a mortgage, bought a house, funded his lifestyle etc.

When I cancelled his access to the bank account after 2 years of separation, he got mad, really mad. But, for the last 4 years post divorce he has been gainfully employed.    He still hasn't matured emotionally, but at least he can support himself now.

Sometimes we are our own worst enemies, and the more we do, the less they do... .

[catnap]

So if child support wasn't ordered and spousal support probably wasn't ordered either, likely you just need to be reasonable but not too fair nor generous.  That's not in the "best interests of the children".  Keep that in mind.

I will probably give her some money for gas to get here, but that's about it.

Just a very small amount monthly (clearly marked as gas money) to see the children.  If she blows on other stuff, that is her problem.

I'm curious about the government assistance--just thinking she might be misusing the children's SS numbers.