and she's silent again

[coffees86]

Last few months I've been having friendly conversations with my BPDex. Though she always says she cannot have friends we kept communicating. It was friendly and nice and we could chat about all kinds of thing. Just plain ok.

Yesterday something went wrong I guess. She tried to contact me, I read her message but did not immediately respond.

Today I tried to send her a message, but apparently I'm blocked. Don't know why. I called her up, but she immediately hung up on me. So later on I gave her a small validation in the voicemail telling her: I really enjoy speaking to her, if there is anything wrong she can call me and I'd like to talk to her. That I'm not mad at her and that I just leave her alone for a while, not because I don't want to talk, but since I think that might be best.

Is there anything else I can do at this point except for wondering  why she split me black and blocked me all of the sudden. And of course... . will the contact come back?

[bauers220]

It sounds like you are doing all you can to me.  Though I am no expert - my knowledge comes from many battle scars with my now - "again" ex.  It seems the rule applies here - based on past behavior - indicates future behavior - in most cases.

I'd suspect she will be back around.  It all sounds familiar to me 

[Ironmanrises]

Coffee,

I am sorry you are going through that even just being friends with your ex.

Only thing you can do is stay NC.

Otherwise, further hurt awaits you.

Her reversal of feelings and behavior will only hurt you.

No matter what you do.

NC is the only way.

That is only thing that will protect you from that.

[Learning_curve74]

coffees, sorry to hear your friend/BPDex has stopped contact all of a sudden, it sounds like you are a little hurt by that? You are looking to remain platonic friends with your BPDex, right? If that's the case, I would not necessarily agree with Ironman in this particular case. You already left a message that left the door open, it's up to her to walk through it.

Like you said, there's not really anything you can do except wait. She will probably contact you when she needs a sympathetic ear or to feel soothed. There is not much to be gained by trying to figure it out, it could be for a number of different reasons. Time is the only thing you can never earn more of, so why not spend it on other worthwhile things rather than spending it worrying, right?

[coffees86]

Thanks for all the replies.

Indeed I'd like a platonic friendship. In my mind people are who they are with all their flaws included. I know this shutting me off is one big flaw. But I also think she probably is just scared and worrying I'm coming too close again. Too intimate. We had some good conversations going on, also about BPD. I know I cannot and will not help her. It's up to her.

Though I'm worried that she might feel that I'm not putting enough effort in on one hand, but when I contact her too much that I'm pushing her.

I'm hurt, yes, off course. It is not normal in any case to all of the sudden shut someone out with whom you were having good conversations the day before.

I also kno that this is probably her state of mind and that she found someone else to sooth her or that she is in an episode of self guilt and not wanting me around. Though I know all this, indeed it still hurts. I'm emotionally quite detached but I just want to do what is right, for me, and for her. For me right is to have conversations, to listen and to enjoy the knowledge she is/has been given me. She is a bright full person with a lot of knowledge and intelligence, which I think is incredible. But if she is not willing to share anything with me, there probably is a reason for that, though it might be all in her mind.

[Lucky Jim]

Hey Coffee, Your goal of having a friendship with your BPDex seems reasonable enough on the surface, yet as you are finding out, those w/BPD are prone to conflicts and turmoil even in the context of a friendship, so I wonder whether it is a little unrealistic to think you can continue to be in contact yet avoid the fallout from BPD.  BPD and drama go hand in hand, my friend, so maybe you need to lower your expectations or consider whether you really want that BPD energy in your life.  Give it some thought!  Lucky Jim

[coffees86]

Thanks Jim. I'm realizing it might be unrealistic. But I tend to have the feeling I'm emotionally detached enough to be able to maintain a friendship. Maybe this is just a ditch  

Like I previously already said, next to her bad behavior at times she also has really nice characteristic things which in my opinion make her a special person which I'd like to learn more from.

For example; I know not much about art, but she would send me an arty picture every week with explanation. This learned me. I've never seen anyone who is so able to learn me and get me to gain knowledge. I don't want her as a partner but just as a friend. So I should bear her unreasonable reactions sometimes, and just accept that this is who she is. I'm learning to accept. And willing to accept. Though I do know some might find this naive. I find it worthwhile.

[Learning_curve74]

I also kno that this is probably her state of mind and that she found someone else to sooth her or that she is in an episode of self guilt and not wanting me around. Though I know all this, indeed it still hurts. I'm emotionally quite detached but I just want to do what is right, for me, and for her.

It is very difficult for most people to remain entirely emotionally detached. We human beings are social animals and primed to feel emotions and to want to be around each other and to connect with each other emotionally.

As you might already know, BPD is an illness that arises from attachment issues and avoidance of shame. The one characteristic that seems to be common among all the different manifestations of BPD is the turmoil in their interpersonal relationships. So anybody who gets close to a BPDer is going to experience at least some measure of their dysfunctional crazy-making behavior, not just lovers but even best friends and close friends.

You can't control her and you can't change her. She will most likely continue to do the things she does like suddenly dropping all contact. The question you have to ask is whether you can truly accept this and change yourself if you wish to remain close friends? I personally cannot reprogram myself to do this with my BPDex, but you sound like you're trying. Just remember that it doesn't have to be a lifetime decision. If at some point you think you cannot do it any more, it doesn't say anything bad about you or that you failed. You are free to change your mind. If you do, it's just that you came to the realization that it's not really what you want any more, nothing more or less.

Good luck, I hope you find your way and can be at peace and happy, coffees. 

[coffees86]

 

- Just remember that it doesn't have to be a lifetime decision. -

Very well said and that's the one thing I know. I can always choose to take a different path. For now - I'm staying in this one-sided friendship at the moment. She shut me off completely. But didn't tell me not to contact her. Every now and then I'll just send her a text, like I always do: Hey - how are you, hope you're doing fine. I just did this and this... . blablabla.

In my opinion: I do not expect a response. A response would be fine, but I know she might not be in the position to respond due to her thoughts about me. Maybe I'm even dead to her. What I hope to achieve by these texts is to be and stay the stable person I am and always will be.

She talked with me about BPD (something she said she only did with me and one other ex - maybe a lie) She acknowledges she might have a problem and that she might be BPD - but also that she is afraid of this and not in the mood to search any help. It's more convenient for her not to have friends and to just shut lovers out immediately. I hope to achieve that she sees that people can be stable. (high hopes - I know) When it stays like this I'm perfectly able with my own feelings to do this. She is such a good person inside and could achieve so much, but also so afraid. What do you think?

[Learning_curve74]

I can always choose to take a different path. For now - I'm staying in this one-sided friendship at the moment. She shut me off completely. But didn't tell me not to contact her. Every now and then I'll just send her a text, like I always do: Hey - how are you, hope you're doing fine. I just did this and this... . blablabla.

In my opinion: I do not expect a response. A response would be fine, but I know she might not be in the position to respond due to her thoughts about me. Maybe I'm even dead to her. What I hope to achieve by these texts is to be and stay the stable person I am and always will be.

Hey coffees, hope you're doing ok. Since you are wanting to remain friends, I think your strategy is the right one. I totally see where you are coming from, just making intermittent contact to let her know you're still around but having no expectations. I think the part of having no expectations is the important thing because then you don't set yourself up to be disappointed. I believe you will be a strong person with strong boundaries if you can keep up this type of "one-sided" relationship.

She talked with me about BPD (something she said she only did with me and one other ex - maybe a lie) She acknowledges she might have a problem and that she might be BPD - but also that she is afraid of this and not in the mood to search any help. It's more convenient for her not to have friends and to just shut lovers out immediately. I hope to achieve that she sees that people can be stable. (high hopes - I know) When it stays like this I'm perfectly able with my own feelings to do this. She is such a good person inside and could achieve so much, but also so afraid. What do you think?

I think that in a way we both think alike.    I feel many of the same things about my BPDex that you do about yours: she can be a good person and achieve a lot but she is full of fear, denial, and a very negative and scary worldview. It is heartbreaking to me because she actually has a lot to offer to people. However, where you and I diverge, coffees, is that I was too close to my BPDex and do not wish to be around her as I feel too betrayed and deeply feel the pain of loss.

I also harbor very few illusions or hope that my BPDex will evolve into this wonderful person I think she can be. I don't play the lottery not because I don't think it is winnable -- somebody wins it all the time -- but it is extremely unlikely that I will win it so I choose not to play. These are also the feelings that I have about my BPDex, that it is possible that she can choose to help herself and heal and adapt, but this is extremely unlikely to happen, so I choose not to be involved in her life. I only have one life with a limited amount of time, and this is an investment that I no longer believe in, so I choose to cut my losses.

Coffees, hope you don't see what I wrote as totally being a downer. I wish you the best on your journey and hope you are blessed with patience and acceptance. 

[coffees86]

Thanks for your response. I hope indeed I can keep this up. Thinking of it, maybe this discussion is more appropriate under the Staying Board in stead of the leaving. Though I left the intimate relationship, I do not want to leave her fully and keep some communication between us going.

She is indeed a negative person sometimes, almost depressed. Filled in her mind that all people are bad and everyone will leave someday or hurt her. She is bad to friends (which she knows and says) self centric sometimes. But fully does this, because she has the feeling everyone is like this. We had many conversations, and maybe it is stupid, but I had the feeling she has been quite honest about her inside turmoil. I only told her; i understand that you feel that way. I feel different, but I might not have seen the stuff you saw. In my opinion not everyone is bad, and people can stay. She just react with: I push them all away and if they are willing to be pushed, they are not worth it.

I'm not willing to be pushed away. But I cannot continually keep a one sided thing going on. Relations are two ways... . this is the hard part. Deep down I don't know what she is thinking, whether it is a test, or her being so affraid to push more and more. I know it's not right to follow her, this will only push her further. I remain silent and every now and then just send an upbeat text. Not to much emotions inside, just plain chatting.

We'll see, maybe she is so afraid that this time she is gone forgood, or either I didn't follow her enough and she has the feeling I'm not worth it. I do not mind that. I am worth it, her thoughts about this are her thoughts.

[Learning_curve74]

She is indeed a negative person sometimes, almost depressed. Filled in her mind that all people are bad and everyone will leave someday or hurt her. She is bad to friends (which she knows and says) self centric sometimes. But fully does this, because she has the feeling everyone is like this. We had many conversations, and maybe it is stupid, but I had the feeling she has been quite honest about her inside turmoil. I only told her; i understand that you feel that way. I feel different, but I might not have seen the stuff you saw. In my opinion not everyone is bad, and people can stay. She just react with: I push them all away and if they are willing to be pushed, they are not worth it.

I'm not willing to be pushed away. But I cannot continually keep a one sided thing going on. Relations are two ways... . this is the hard part. Deep down I don't know what she is thinking, whether it is a test, or her being so affraid to push more and more.

Maybe one of the moderators can move your thread if you feel it is more suitable to be under the Staying board?

Coffees, I feel like I know what you're going through because a lot of the things you wrote about your BPDex are also applicable to my BPDex: she sees people as mostly bad and that they'll all abandon her, she knows she can be bad to people sometimes and push them away, and she felt shame for being like this, and she was honest about telling me these things.

On the Staying board there is a phrase that seems to be used often "radical acceptance". This is seeing the situation clearly and understanding that it is what it is, no more no less. Very similar to the Buddhist conception of acceptance in viewing the now (the present world and situations as they are in the moment) without judgement. As you can see to the right "Attachment leads to suffering, Detachment leads to freedom" which is an encapsulation of one of the core principles of Buddhism. Yes, it is one sided. But if you accept that this is what it is without expectation, then that is the only way -- in my opinion -- for you to make this work. It is very contradictory, very zen in a way, to remain in the relationship, you have to be willing to let it go. As I said earlier, I personally can't do that, but if you are still willing to try, I wish you the best.