I just can't understand this

[fishman]

First post and intro:
After reading some posts on this board , I now know that we are not the only ones in this situation.brace yourself, this is going to be a long post:)


Our oldest son got out of an unhealthy 6 year relationship in 2022. He immediately got into another relationship with a woman from one of the ex-soviet block countries south of Russia. She had her Green card , so she wasn't solely trying to get to stay in the US. She is not a US citizen and will probably not become one. She is well educated and smart.

The original girlfriend called the new girlfriend "russian mail order bride " and other disparaging names when the dating started. 
After dating for 3 or 4 months, the new girlfriend demanded that our son meet with the old girlfriend, tell her he never loved her and that she should kill herself(and that he record the conversation so that she would have proof that he did it).

My wife and I thought this was really odd and tried to talk her out of this because it's a terrible thing to do to any human being. However, this was her demand and there was no talking her out of it. So, unbeknownst to us, he flew to another city and did it. We were disgusted.

Over the next year of their dating, we would get frantic calls and texts from the two of them. She also told him he had to cut out two of his best friends from his life, or she would leave and go back to her country of origin.  During one of the fights, she sent him a picture of her holding his cat and her having a knife to the cat's throat. My wife and I were dragged into each of these horrible fights, and it would just break us to pieces watching this nightmare of a relationship unfold.  Then they decided to marry.  I want to be clear that our son is no saint in all of this. He lets this happen and yells and screams and throws stuff, just like she does.  I have know idea why they think it is a healthy relationship.

So they get married(a civil service, a wedding in her home country and a wedding in the US). We supported it because he wanted it and we did not know the full extent of her(and his) issues at that point.

At the US wedding she complained that our son drank too mush the night before the wedding after telling him now to. He also told a few of his friends that she was pregnant, after being told not to do so. Just to be clear, this US wedding was held 5 months after the civil ceremony, during which time they became pregnant.
They fought the morning of the US wedding and she said it ruined her fun at the wedding.

Fast forward 12 months(and subsequently many more fights we were dragged into) and she claims that our younger son's fiancee( who was the bridesmaid), was saying she was acting like a bridezilla at the wedding.

So here is the weird part, the DIL sets forth a demand that my wife admonish our youngest son's fiancee in writing(and she be copied on it), for calling here a bridezilla. My wife has no idea if that happened or not. The DIL will not backdown and demands that my wife back her up. The consequences would be to never see the grandchild. My wife is left with a terrible situation in which she is expected to take sides. I get so angry that I cannot be in the room with the DIL and my son. They are acting like horrible people. I don't even know our son anymore. I did not help the situation by calling him names and letting him know that he will be cut out of the family if this continues. I later apologized, but her demands to have my wife in the middle of this continues.  The DIL is set off anytime my wife makes any suggestion about the volatile relationship or any small thing that suggests my wife is telling our son what he could do. The DIL wants complete control over him.

So now, our son is estranged from his only sibling, friends, parents and is trapped in this relationship. We don't know how to help him.
My wife and  I are seeking therapy to deal with this. There are so many things that I didn't write about because it would take hours to write all the things that the DIL does that are bizarre. Not making excuses for her, but perhaps some of this "Defend my honor" demands are cultural-based.

Our son has gone off the deep end now, he called us, our son, my family recently. In a drunken rage he screamed at everyone demanding that everyone stick up for his wife. We remained calm and did not engage but told him we love him but will not support them in this vendetta. My wife is coming to terms with the fact that we have lost him. I came to the realization earlier than her, and that has caused tension between the two of us. We have been married 37 years so have have weathered storms, but nothing like this.

I hope this rant resonates with someone else and lets them know they are not alone in this struggle.

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[js friend]

Hi Fishman,

This is not a rant at all but  certainly a tough position to be in, and I think you are handling it perfectly. I think that it is very wise not to give into any threats that your dil makes. One reason is that if you do you will only open the door for more threats and manipulation. Already she has started with isolating your son from his friends and family. She is being totally unreasonable at the very least. I have a new grandchild that I have never met. I know nothing about this child not even a name. I feel sad about it but its good in a way that we have some emotional distance between us. Honestly it has given  me the time to heal and firm up my boundaries if my udd decides to reappear on day.
In the case of your son, you have told him that you love him and have stuck to your boundaries which is totally the right thing to do. Letting go can be hard but just remember that you are doing it for your own peace of mind and wellbeing.  

[Pook075]

Hello Fishman and welcome.  I'm very sorry you're going through this.

Let me start by saying as someone who was in a long-term relationship with a BPD wife and having a BPD daughter, I stood by them through thick and thin.  I had several of these ultimatums over the years and its a very tough position to be in for your son.

You'd like him to tell his wife she's way off base, which he's probably done a lot more than you know.  But the outrage and explosive anger convinced him to change his viewpoints just to make the abusive behavior stop.  In a nutshell, it's called enabling...when you do the wrong thing for the right reasons to make someone acting out feel better.  The problem is that when you enable, the person with mental illness becomes bolder and makes bigger demands because they feel validated in their disordered thinking.

For this particular issue, I'd tell the bridezilla directly that your wife will not be involved, it's not your place to seek apologies from anyone.  If she wants an apology, she can call that person directly and discuss it like civil adults.  Do not put yourselves in the middle because you'll always be in the middle from that point forward.

For the relationship with your son, it's his life and he gets to live it however he wants.  Just try to be supportive of him while keeping distance and letting things play out however they may.  From what you've shared, this train is coming off the rails eventually and your kid will need you at that time.  So focus on the long-term picture here instead of what's happening in the moment.

Again, I'm so sorry you're in this situation.  Just remember that it's not your problem and you can't control any of this.  Your son is in a terrible position and he's the only one that can fix it.

[Ourworld]

Hi Fishman,

The Russian people are treated so badly, there is strong likelihood that this DIL has significant mental issues. It’s bad enough when our kids get involved with people from the US, but really tumultous when the person they are with is from another country and culture. This DIL not only has some behavioral/mental problems, but on top of it she has a completely different worldview (way of seeing and dealing with things).

It’s heartbreaking that your son has basically been brain-washed into her way of thinking. As long as he’s with her this cannot be changed.

I know it’s difficult, but you just need to block them and allow them to live their lives. The grandchild will suffer mental anguish as well, but unfortunately you cannot reach him right now either.

You have done, put up with, and even tried to resolve as much as you can, so at least know that y’all have done the best you can, and that your son’s illness has gotten him into the mess he’s in.
I suppose he’s happy in a way, and I’m sure that y’all did your best to raise him right, so NO GUILT for either of you!

At this point, release him back to His true father God, and pray, not only for him, but for the wife and baby.

My daughter secretly married someone that had their own mental illnesses from the military, so the ‘marriage’ was quite unhealthy.
Over 10 years I prayed fervently; I knew that God would bring her to her lowest point before He healed her life, and last year when the husband went into psychosis, after about 6 months she left him after trying to ignore his behavior for the previous year. I hated for her to endure any heartbreak such as this, but who knows how much it really effected her, she might have had things planned out in her mind. Afterall, she left him alone in psychosis!

He is now being taken care of by the VA, and she has moved on.
She blocked me 11 years ago (I believe a lot of it was embarrassment, but I have also come to realize that she felt I abandoned her when I moved overseas for a few years).
I have been told that she has finally moved from the college town where she graduated, is working, exercising, and taking care of her dog.
I do hope she contacts me again soon!

So, there is hope that someday the ‘marriage’ will end and he will reconnect with you.

I do suggest that you do what is necessary to block negative people from your life. The only thing you might want to leave open is email, and let your son know that is the only way that he can reach you, but if his wife writes you will delete without reading, and if she writes pretending to be you it will not be acknowledged.

Life is too short for negativity, even if comes from those we love.
You can be proud that it doesn’t sound like your son is raging at you!

Wishing you the best, keep the faith, OurWorld

[fishman]

Update:
thanks to all of you for your supportive replies. My wife an I did speak with a therapist and she said many of the same things you mentioned in your posts. I feel lucky to have found this forum for my own mental health. I will be asking our therapist if it would be wise to let our son know his options in terms of a divorce/child custody, etc.  I'm not sure he knows there are options available to him. I'm not sure he is ready to hear them yet. I think he would be back to his previous self if he were living on his own, had the child every other weekend, etc.   Suggesting that would outrage the DIL and I am sure that she would know we suggested it , because she monitors all communications. She is a flight risk to take the child and go back to her home country. However, the child is a US citizen and she would then be a international fugitive. I'm not sure that would stop her though.

Did any of you ever suggest this divorce option to your son?

[Pook075]

Did any of you ever suggest this divorce option to your son?

Your son is in control of his life, and he knows divorce is an option.  Suggesting it would only poke the bear, so to speak.  This has to be on his terms and he has to reach this conclusion on his own.

[Ourworld]

Hello Fishman,

In you original post you said nothing about divorce, but if this has come up since then, I do not think you should be involved. If anything ONLY advise him to speak to his lawyer.

Although I must say, it would probably be better for the child and your son for her to return to Russia with the baby.