I think Hope is as Pointless as Frustration

[Depression = 72% of members]

I have had a week almost of not having the horoscope communication with my BPD friend. And I do feel like I have had more "space in my mind" then I have had for a long time. Even the "Stop the Bleeding" article allowed me to identify what my situation is and has been for some time.

I recognize that I have become the co dependent in the relationship and I can also see why I cannot be the emotional "leader" that I would need to be to be able to sustain a healthier relationship.

My issues looking at my history. My Dad is an Alcoholic and he is quite violent, and my mum and dad split up when I was 4 yrs old. There was a lot of trouble over this we did live in hiding for a while but eventually when things calmed down, me and my mum lived with my nan and grandad.

At that age I idolized my dad he was who I looked up to and believed in everything he said (which tended to be lies). One example is every Saturday he would arrange to pick me up and i would be sat up on the couch peering out the window resting my face on my hands staring out the window for 2 to 3 hours and he wouldn't turn up. I would then cry my eyes out and he would say the same thing for the following week and I went through the same process. And each week I would have that HOPE! This Saturday was different he promised he would be here so he will!

I would say I would see him one of those Saturday's out of 12 approx, which would be a day out to all his pubs with him drink driving with me sat in a corner on my own with a glass of pop and a packet of crisps! That was it!

Yet I thought he was amazing!

He could say anything to me how he was going to change and I would be filled with so much hope and believe in his words I suppose I convinced myself from his words of change +hope=He can Change!

And that was enough for me to believe in him!

And without realizing that learned process has followed me throughout my adult life and I have been in awful situations but the hope and "Unrealistic Optimism" has meant I empathize and sympathize in such an accommodating way that allows people to walk all over me.

And I remember speaking to someone and saying what is wrong with me? And they said you are too nice people will consistently take the piss out of you!

Anyway I have been thinking about this the past few days and how deeply routed it is in my situation with my BPD friend!

Am I really the problem not Her? We were both attracted to each other because we are both needy people emotionally. And the emotional support I require she cannot provide, yet I am "hopeful" and Believe in her words that I still stay in the situation!

On the other hand she fears abandonment uses the internet as a way to have a "relationship" without the personal attachment she fears. But she requires an emotional leader who is not needy!

The clarity for thinking over the past few days has allowed me to really identify that maybe I am the problem. And that maybe my own optimism is distorted with false hope and a false belief that has detached me from the true reality that my life is just hit!

[curlybob]

I have had a week almost of not having the horoscope communication with my BPD friend. And I do feel like I have had more "space in my mind" then I have had for a long time. Even the "Stop the Bleeding" article allowed me to identify what my situation is and has been for some time.

I recognize that I have become the co dependent in the relationship and I can also see why I cannot be the emotional "leader" that I would need to be to be able to sustain a healthier relationship.

My issues looking at my history. My Dad is an Alcoholic and he is quite violent, and my mum and dad split up when I was 4 yrs old. There was a lot of trouble over this we did live in hiding for a while but eventually when things calmed down, me and my mum lived with my nan and grandad.

At that age I idolized my dad he was who I looked up to and believed in everything he said (which tended to be lies). One example is every Saturday he would arrange to pick me up and i would be sat up on the couch peering out the window resting my face on my hands staring out the window for 2 to 3 hours and he wouldn't turn up. I would then cry my eyes out and he would say the same thing for the following week and I went through the same process. And each week I would have that HOPE! This Saturday was different he promised he would be here so he will!

I would say I would see him one of those Saturday's out of 12 approx, which would be a day out to all his pubs with him drink driving with me sat in a corner on my own with a glass of pop and a packet of crisps! That was it!

Yet I thought he was amazing!

He could say anything to me how he was going to change and I would be filled with so much hope and believe in his words I suppose I convinced myself from his words of change +hope=He can Change!

And that was enough for me to believe in him!

And without realizing that learned process has followed me throughout my adult life and I have been in awful situations but the hope and "Unrealistic Optimism" has meant I empathize and sympathize in such an accommodating way that allows people to walk all over me.

And I remember speaking to someone and saying what is wrong with me? And they said you are too nice people will consistently take the piss out of you!

Anyway I have been thinking about this the past few days and how deeply routed it is in my situation with my BPD friend!

Am I really the problem not Her? We were both attracted to each other because we are both needy people emotionally. And the emotional support I require she cannot provide, yet I am "hopeful" and Believe in her words that I still stay in the situation!

On the other hand she fears abandonment uses the internet as a way to have a "relationship" without the personal attachment she fears. But she requires an emotional leader who is not needy!

The clarity for thinking over the past few days has allowed me to really identify that maybe I am the problem. And that maybe my own optimism is distorted with false hope and a false belief that has detached me from the true reality that my life is just hit!

[curlybob]

that was to finish that actually my life is crap. And I have toc ome to terms that my life isn't great and be more realistic to actually to what is really going on!

[Learning_curve74]

curlybob, how your father treated you was wrong and NEVER your fault! You were a child, and it was understandable that you idolized your absent father since his love and care was something you were missing and wanted so much. My father was there but emotionally damaging, always degrading me making me feel never good enough. I wish he had taken me out for a day at the pubs, I would've appreciated that small crumb of attention.

Anyhow, it sounds like you feel a similar dynamic with your pwBPD. And just like the way your father treated you was wrong, don't take the blame for the bad behavior she pulls on you! Are you blaming the victim/yourself? Why?

I urge you to read through many posts on the Staying board. You will see that regardless of how well somebody uses the communication tools, a pwBPD is NOT controllable! To think otherwise is wishful thinking. People are not calculators where you punch in a set of numerical operations and always get the same answers. pwBPD are highly disordered and will always work to be one up on their partners. What seems to soothe her one day may totally set her off on a rage another day!

Do you believe that adults should be held accountable only for their own actions? If so, then what she does can NEVER be a reflection of you, right? So if you have hope, which I pray that you do even though I do not know you, then your hope should be that YOU can change. Not that she can change because you have NO control over that.

You say that your life is "crap", so what are the specific things you wish were different? What do you want to change? What things are within YOUR power to change? Also what things in your life might you be taking for granted? Do you have good friends, a job, a hobby that you enjoy in your free time?

Realize that wherever you are now is just a starting point. Be kind to yourself and realize that you are doing the best you can at this moment in time, but because you have hope, you can also sow the seeds for a brighter future for yourself. Save your hope for the person who deserves it: you. Best wishes to you and a hug because you deserve one. 

[curlybob]

I am sorry that I came across as thinking that Bpd people are calculators.

But they go through cycles right? Good and bad days yes? So not every day they are in a rage?

Some days they could be rational in some form?

I have seen t with my own eyes she writes lovely messages about others online, so kind and ccaring and thoughtful, and the constant admiratin for her b/p? So she is capable on social interaction in a positive form?

So in 5 years there wasn't 1 moment, 1 hour, 1day she wasn't in a rage? Of course! Yet at those rational points she could not respond?

So it isn't all down to every tiny moment to a BPD moment! In fact she decided to treat me like that in her good moments as well!

So I have become the emotional punchbag for 5 yrs. Does her b/p get treated like I have been, or what about all these wonderful people in her life do they? Nope! She kisses their arse!

If I hope I am wrong. If I hope in any situation I am wrong. Hope is a false believe hope is a waste of energy and proved to be time and time again.

I can change me and improve me. But to improve me to improve a situation is wrong.

To stay whilst she beats the hit out of me but praises every tom dick and harry, who is the dick then? Me.

Hope is a false economy! A marketing term used in adverts to give people false hope.

I would not use hope in my future coz that means im stuck in 1 hell holes I can't get out of.

Im sorry Learning Curve I agree with you in most parts but not on hope.

[musicfan42]

I had an alcoholic father growing up so I can relate to this. There was always this big seed of doubt in my mind over whether to believe my father or not-it was all lies anyways but it made me feel unsure/insecure as you can imagine.

I agree with you curlybob that there's no point getting frustrated because it's just a waste of energy. I also agree that there's no point hoping that someone will change because it's just not going to happen... it tends to be just more of the same.

I don't think it's a good thing to believe in someone's "potential"-everyone could potentially do anything but potential doesn't matter. It really boils down to what they're actually doing in their lives right now... their actions, not their words.

I feel like some people talk a good talk but they never walk the walk.

There's thread on boundaries and values in the workshop section that may help you

[Ironmanrises]

I am sorry that I came across as thinking that Bpd people are calculators.

But they go through cycles right? Good and bad days yes? So not every day they are in a rage?

Some days they could be rational in some form?

I have seen t with my own eyes she writes lovely messages about others online, so kind and ccaring and thoughtful, and the constant admiratin for her b/p? So she is capable on social interaction in a positive form?

So in 5 years there wasn't 1 moment, 1 hour, 1day she wasn't in a rage? Of course! Yet at those rational points she could not respond?

So it isn't all down to every tiny moment to a BPD moment! In fact she decided to treat me like that in her good moments as well!

So I have become the emotional punchbag for 5 yrs. Does her b/p get treated like I have been, or what about all these wonderful people in her life do they? Nope! She kisses their arse!

If I hope I am wrong. If I hope in any situation I am wrong. Hope is a false believe hope is a waste of energy and proved to be time and time again.

I can change me and improve me. But to improve me to improve a situation is wrong.

To stay whilst she beats the  out of me but praises every tom dick and harry, who is the dick then? Me.

Hope is a false economy! A marketing term used in adverts to give people false hope.

I would not use hope in my future coz that means im stuck in 1 hell holes I can't get out of.

Im sorry Learning Curve I agree with you in most parts but not on hope.

In bold.

I saw that too with my ex.

They are able to do that... .

With others... .

Because they are not intimate with them.

We are their triggers.

And... .

They do that... .

Too... .

Because they know... .

It will hurt us.

Those closest to them.

I know it sucks.

[curlybob]

Thanks everyone for your helpful advice.

Its hard because there are no good days in the mix, someone else gets them, I get the consistant bad days and I have done so for 5 yrs. And if I  hope anymore im only kidding myself.

I don't want to be the human punch bag every single day anymore.

Thanks guys