Triggers

[houseofswans]

I posted this reply on another thread, and afterwards decided to make it a new topic so that everyone might see it.

It was in relation to a member saying that a BPD "must attach, needs to attach to another person"

Then why do they leave?

You wouldn't believe how much I spent on her over a 4 year relationship, and similarly how much I told her what she meant to me.

If that's validation and an ego boost, why go off with someone else, who would be an unknown quantity (in the first instance at least)?

I think I've mentioned this before, but could it be that she knew that he had more money than sense (I say that partly-joking, because if he had any sense he wouldn't get tangled in her web)

Or was I too much of a trigger for her, and it's only a matter of time before he becomes trigger-happy?

And what exactly are these triggers?

Seriously, I've never been able to work out why I would trigger her... .

[Ironmanrises]

Because you got close to her... .

That is the trigger.

As soon as that happens... .

Is when the push starts.

It is inevitable.

[mitchell16]

I could be wrong on this. BUt what I understand and alot of it comes from what my exBPDgf would say. Is deep inside she dont feel loveable, she feels bad about herself. She knows on some level the thing she does to me. So in her mind she knows just how bad she has been and she has some guilt and shame over it. So in her mind I will grow tired of her and her BS and I will leave. Its completely crazy making. I used to get so aggravated, because she would get so out of control and raging. Now if I stayed, and put up with it in her mind she thinks why would I stay and put up with that. So she will lose respect for me. If I leave she says " see there I knew you would leave" She has said these things to me. She has asked me when I tried to exlain how hurtful her behaviors were. She asked me If im so bad why do you stay with me. She also told me once ( i have it in a text) that she knew that I was growing tired of her BS so she got rid of me, to save me from her. Of course in my logical mind it would just be easier to get the help. But at the same time im not BPD.

[houseofswans]

Because you got close to her... .

That is the trigger.

As soon as that happens... .

Is when the push starts.

It is inevitable.

In what way "got close to her"?

[Escaped 30.Sept.2013]

Another factor could be that they are so desperate for you not to leave them, that they throw EVERYTHING into being the perfect partner for you, the unconscious 'mirroring', doing everything to make you love them, make you feel great, make you stay... .

... .that, as you can iamgine pretty easily, is exhausting. And they start to feel exhausted by the effort. For which they then blame you (since above all, they cannot face their own fears that you will leave them). Since it's your fault, then that means you must be a controlling person, a mean person, a greedy, grasping, grabbing person, to force them to have to put all this effort in.

they become resentful and angry.

and the four-year-old throws a tantrum and they yell mean stuff and storm out of the room (or 'break up with you' as it's known in a 41-year-old four-year-old... .)... .then they come sobbing back, saying, "I'm sorry, Mommy, I love you, I never meant to say mean stuff" and because they made you feel soo great when they were throwing everything into it, you say, "oh baby, it's ok, c'mere little one, I love you too... ."

It's a very terrified child convinced their Mommy/Daddy is about to abandon them, because they are just about the most awful person alive, they know deep down.

That means an untreated/undiagnosed BPD is phenomenally destructive.

And it also means we need to look at why we don't recognise this pattern as Not Normal Relationship Behaviour much earlier on... .

[Octoberfest]

Because you got close to her... .

That is the trigger.

As soon as that happens... .

Is when the push starts.

It is inevitable.

In what way "got close to her"?

Something that may sting in some ways, but is also very liberating in others, is that when it comes down to it, IT WASN'T YOU.  When I say that I mean both it wasn't necessarily "you" that she was so head over heels for all along, and also it IS NOT you that caused her to act and do the things that she did.  I am making a few generalizations here, but pwBPD are TERRIFIED of abandonment and/or being alone.  So they do whatever they must in order to get close to people.  Ever present however is their overwhelming sense of shame- and as they get close to people they say "How could this person every truly love ME? I mean, look at me... ." so they go and do things to sabotage the relationship, to force a result on their terms.  It happens different ways... .My BPDex handled it by going and starting and maintaining multiple relationships at one time.  So when one of her boyfriends left her, because of course they were going to no question, she isn't deserving of love, she has someone to fall back on.  I chatted with someone last night and I guess she is running 3 guys at once right now, one of whom she is engaged to, another who is married with a kid, and another guy who is a really nice guy who wants it badly enough to refuse to see the light (I identify a ton with him).  Other pwBPD go and leave a relationship/line someone else up so that THEY are the ones who walked away, instead of their partner abandoning THEM.

I think you are looking for answers in the wrong places.  It isn't about money.  And it isn't about YOU being too much of a trigger.  EVERYONE is a trigger for them.  Some just make it longer before triggering them. I touched on triggering in the paragraph above, although I didn't identify it as such.  When you get close to them as mentioned, they start to have those feelings of "I am never going to be good enough, they are going to leave me.".  It is an incredibly toxic dance.  They crave the validation and acceptance of those around them.  But when they get a certain amount of it, the shame kicks in and they question how it could be that they are getting it, because they do not believe they are worthy of it.  So they sabotage the relationship and find someone new.  Thus the flaming ferris wheel spins.

My BPDex has dated ( and been married to at 22 yrs old) all manor of guys.  Drug dealers, really nice guys, respectable guys, douchebags, scumbags, "normal" guys, you name it.  There is no common theme between them.  No ethnicity, social class, style of dress, personality, nothing.  It is whoever that is around that will give her the validation that she craves at the time.

[fiddlestix]

Borderlines get bored easily.  Even though I continued to be sexually attracted to my wife, kind, nurturing... .I was "old hat."  We had been together a long time.  The fact that I was "old hat" meant that my validations of her no longer fed her ego.  She needed fresh supply, which she found online and in the bars.  And, she probably lost respect for me because I did continue to be a doormat (although at times she said I am so kind she doesn't deserve me).  I think that my very existence became her trigger: my face, my walk, my voice, my laugh... .everything about me triggered her to act out.  I feel very rejected.  But, in time, I will not care what that disordered, immoral woman thinks of me.  God willing... .

Fiddlestix

[Traumatized]

My face, my very presence became a trigger for her.

[Conundrum]

Mitchell's post comes close to what I believe is accurate. To feel unlovable, is conjoined with self-esteem. This is something that we as nons should be able to relate to, because we often attach with an ongoing damaged sense of self-esteem.

A pwBPD no doubt feels unlovable, while simultaneously feeling shame. But they do not feel unlovable or shame because of their actions. They feel both unlovable and shame because of their NEEDS. Their needs are secreted away. It is their secret garden of shame and delight. It is a place they dare not let anyone into, because their NEEDS are anti-social. A pwBPD actions are a manifestation of their needs--but they never truly let anyone dwell in that secret garden. It is their fortress of solitude. That is why they are incapable of intimacy--because they are ashamed of their needs-- that dwell inside the maladapted self.

They do want love-desperately yearn for it, and attempt to achieve the perfect attachment that can dispel their needs and heal them. But no love can, because they cannot love from within. Their needs both delight and and repel them, ritualistically--a dialectic without respite, relentless, without closure--black and white.

The fear of abandonment, the dysregulation, the splitting, the instability of emotion, and the inability to understand/feel meaningful intimacy are all rooted in the maladapted needs that took hold during during the traumatic childhood injury. We trigger their shame. As they get closer to a socially appropriate romantic bonding with a non, the mask of conformity dissolves. It does so for one reason--because they are dissatisfied. Their maladapted needs require other (often toxic) elements besides, intimacy, comfort, security etc. That is how we trigger their shame. Their actions become counter-relationship oriented, and we react, often with a great deal of confusion and suffering. They feel our pain intensely, and that shames them because they have a love/hate relationship with their maladapted anti-social needs. The closer a non gets to desiring adult intimacy and stability from them, the harder it is for them to deny their dissatisfaction.  They cannot sustain intimate relationships because their needs are anti-social. I feel compassion for them because of this. To always feel alien is a terrible curse.         

[fiddlestix]

Mitchell, very true.  My ex often said she was a "scumbag," and wondered why I wanted to be with her.  Of course she had times of grandiosity in which she felt she could seduce any man (and certainly tried).  She once said she "had no soul."  At her core she feels unlovable.  I can't believe she ever though I would abandon her, though.  In fact, I was a doormat who continued to extend my boundaries. 

But I just thought of something.  The night, a year and a half ago, that she told me she was going to move out "as soon as she saved up some money,"  she thought I was planning to leave anyway.  I am interested in real estate (I enjoy HGTV LOL).  I love to look at properties online just to see the market and types of homes out there.  I had left a webpage up with properties on the screen.  My ex said she saw I was looking at places and thought that I was planning to leave.  I was not planning to leave. 

Could this have played a part in her telling me that she was going to move out (when she saved enough money)?  She would leave me and deny me the position of abandoning her? 

Trying to sort it all out... .

Fiddlestix

[houseofswans]

Thanks to all

[Findingmysong723]

Very insightful Conundrum,

I agree with what you said. In my past relationship I think it reigns true, that the closest we got or when he knew I was really committed, he couldn't deal with it! I think, he liked feeling "normal" and being in a relationship, both his older brothers have kids and one is married and with me he could fit in more. I do believe that they can't keep up the "show" anymore, because a real relationship with real intimacy is something they don't understand and can't manage. I remember one comment he made to me once, when I guess he was feeling "engulfed," he told me his past girlfriends knew when to go home... I admit, I tried to hold on to the relationship and might of been needy at times, but in reality I know a healthier person would of reacted better. Also, he would bring up wanting to live together, but of course bringing up my financial issues as problem... even though he had his own financial problems and most importantly how the heck could we live together if you get overwhelmed when I'm over "too much!"

Another way I saw the shame in my Ex, is he would tell me sometimes, that he would probably end up alone and fat, he was worried about how he was gaining weight. His eating too much was definitely a coping mechanism, since he didn't drink or do drugs anymore. Also, I remember him watching a movie or a TV show with a person yelling and screaming on the other side of a door and a woman sliding the food under the door, he said that would be us in 10 years or something weird like that. It's like he thought was saying our relationship will continue to get worse hmm.

Also, most people say their exes bounce back and forth from relationship to relationship, however my Ex was single for years or at least not in a serious relationship before we dated. I think he's in one now, but he was single for awhile after his girlfriend before me. However, he was dealing with alcohol and drug issues, rehab, spending a lot of time with family etc. So, maybe that's why he wasn't dating... .he couldn't.

[HarmKrakow]

I remember one comment he made to me once, when I guess he was feeling "engulfed," he told me his past girlfriends knew when to go home... I admit, I tried to hold on to the relationship and might of been needy at times, but in reality I know a healthier person would of reacted better. Also, he would bring up wanting to live together, but of course bringing up my financial issues as problem... even though he had his own financial problems and most importantly how the heck could we live together if you get overwhelmed when I'm over "too much!"

A true healthy sane person would not start consciously in a BPD relationship or when they find out (red flags) not continue along the same road of course. You brought as much to the relationship as he did, unfortunately, the 'trigger' story is that your behavior was enabling his (if BPD) illness.

[Escaped 30.Sept.2013]

Also, most people say their exes bounce back and forth from relationship to relationship, however my Ex was single for years or at least not in a serious relationship before we dated. I think he's in one now, but he was single for awhile after his girlfriend before me. However, he was dealing with alcohol and drug issues, rehab, spending a lot of time with family etc. So, maybe that's why he wasn't dating... .he couldn't.

Exactly the same here - with exactly the same reasons. I was his first relationship of any kind in four years I believe - because he was in rehab, in therapy, then retraining for a new job, rebuilding his relationships with family, etc.

Which is maybe part of why it came as such an almighty shock that he ran off to spend a weekend with some girl he'd known a few weeks on facebook in another country - from what I knew of him, this was completely out of character for the post-rehab man.

He started the push-pull dance of withdrawing-returning in January, and he also started falling off the wagon more and more frequently. He never ever refers to not drinking on FB, and never EVER refers to his having been in rehab, deeply ashamed of it, and I know damn well he was drunk the Friday he went to my Replacement, and incredibly drunk the Monday he returned, so I'm guessing he drank in between (he'd told me he needed a few days alone, after a huge row with his family, only told me where he'd been on the Monday, reeling drunk).

An alcoholic falling off the wagon doesn't get drunk Friday and Monday and not in between, do they?

I still - genuinely - can't work out what my Replacement sees in him. She must be even needier than me, because at least I know part of why I was sucked into it was our previous relationship at college nearly 20 years ago. But the shock I got on meeting him - well, he'd told me he looked much the same, but no, he'd gone from a sports-playing hunk with a beautiful face, to a shambling untidy slob... .my Replacement is a chic, stylish urban woman, bordering on OCD-tidiness... .

I love him, but even when we were a firmly together LDR couple (Sept-Dec was wonderful, no push-pull, no anything except just feeling we were really great together... .), I remember thinking, "well, at least I'll never have to worry about him being unfaithful - he works with student-age people and they won't find him attractive, he has almost no money, and besides, he can't go where alcohol is so he'd struggle to take another girl out on a date!"

So if even I wondered what anyone would see in him - what on earth does she see in him? He must be mirroring like mad just now... .poor girl. Already signs visible on the outside before I blocked them both that he's started the push-pull... .

So I conclude that when he and I met, he was the most stable he'd been in years and coped with the initial period better, before it hit and he started running away-back-away... .but with her, because of the dramatic disaster all summer when he was pushing me away with one hand and literally at the same time fastening extra padlocks on the emotional manacles to keep me close... .well, I guess he's starting from an already really stirred-up state, and is already in the push-pull dance.

I dunno.

I ought to stop wondering.

I need to stop bothering to wonder... .

[Findingmysong723]

HarmKrkow,

I was just stating a comment he made. Yes, I'm working on being healthier for myself and I know I will never be in a relationship like that again. After only a few weeks, I was starting to get out of the fog I knew how messed up it was. Yes, I put up with stuff because I knew he was in recovering and there would be hiccups but they were much worse than I thought!

[Findingmysong723]

 Escaped 30.Sept.2013,

  One of the things I respected a lot about my Ex is that he had come from a bad place and had worked himself to a much better place. He was going to AA and going to a therapist/shrink and he could talk openly about his problems. I was obviously naive about sobriety etc. I knew that he would have issues with coping since he used to depend on alcohol and drugs and now he was doing it without anything.

Another reason I thought he was getting better was, because he also had two friends that I met, a couple. We spent time hanging out with this couple, going on hikes, going out for Indian food, New Years etc. This couple were such responsible, friendly and healthy people. He had been friends with them for a few years and I thought he's choosing healthy friends and stopped with the negative influences. I found out more about his issues later into the relationship, but when he first openly talked about his relapse I should of realized it was more than that... .a very unstable person, that I wasn't prepared to be with!

I also realize that he stopped working on his issues and I should of left when he stopped working on his problems!

Whether he was BPD or a dry drunk, his behavior was not something I could handle and something I don't want in the future!

[Numbers]

They feel both unlovable and shame because of their NEEDS. Their needs are secreted away. It is their secret garden of shame and delight. It is a place they dare not let anyone into, because their NEEDS are anti-social.         

Conundrum, this is interesting. I know their needs are over-the-top, but I viewed them as simply a disproportionately blown-up regular needs. Could you give an example of anti-social needs you believe they have?

[mitchell16]

Could this have played a part in her telling me that she was going to move out (when she saved enough money)?  She would leave me and deny me the position of abandoning her? 

Yes, In my opion it could be enough. my last break up she started raging. I rode out the storm. I tried to valdate her, I didnt argue. She was accusing me of not being in love with her anymore. I calmly listened. I told her I heard what she was saying but I loved her as much as I ever did. It was like throwig gas on a fire. She exploded and march off to bed... I let her try to fall asleep. She was drunk. after a while I went to bed. She started in again. After I let her finish. I then told her I loved her and she exploded again. I dropped it after that. Next morning I got up and decided I wasnt listening to anymore that day and I was leaving going to my house. I was lookng at my phone. She got it in her mind I was connecting with a girl on FB and was arranging a hook up. and by me leaving it confirmed it in her mind. the next day she broke up with me. When I tried to explain it was just so I could get a piecee of mind and let our tempers cool. But at that point it didnt matter. Could not make any logic to her. What she wanted to beleive in her mind is what happened.

so in my opinion just that little bit is enough to kick in their abandoment issues.

[houseofswans]

edit

[Conundrum]

I know their needs are over-the-top, but I viewed them as simply a disproportionately blown-up regular needs. Could you give an example of anti-social needs you believe they have?

Let your imagination run wild.

If you were a pwBPD, unfettered since childhood by object constancy/object permanency and experiencing life-long chronic emptiness i.e. boredom--what would your needs be?

If you couldn't self-sooth and normal felt dismal and boring, in the blink-of-an-eye, what would your coping-tools resemble?

There's a beginning to all this... .but-rarely-a-happy-ending.

Ask yourself the question--why make an enduring emotional investment in another person? I imagine you could answer that question, but what if you couldn't?  What if that question viscerally felt like a complete abstraction? What would you need from people, and how would you treat them? As a means to an end--or only as a means, or perhaps a temporary respite. How adventurous, careless, dangerous, hurtful--would your actions be--if all you had was this moment-in-time?  There's a reason why Buddhism and DBT skills training helps people with BPD. It helps turn their almost nihilistic needs into something more focused and enlightened. 

We non's are the caretakers. We keep their anti-social needs in check, because we desire an enduring emotional investment--that will reward us. That reward is illusory. They are incapable of intimacy and idealization is fantasy.

The best way to sustain a relationship with a pwBPD is in a non-possessory manner, one-moment-at-a-time. It will seem that way to them, but to you there will be an emotional continuum. Balancing that with your own feelings and needs is... .I cannot say--like the "Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind."  But letting go of the attachment is-the-way. All things change. 

[HarmKrakow]

I know their needs are over-the-top, but I viewed them as simply a disproportionately blown-up regular needs. Could you give an example of anti-social needs you believe they have?

Let your imagination run wild.

If you were a pwBPD, unfettered since childhood by object constancy/object permanency and experiencing life-long chronic emptiness i.e. boredom--what would your needs be?

If you couldn't self-sooth and normal felt dismal and boring, in the blink-of-an-eye, what would your coping-tools resemble?

There's a beginning to all this... .but-rarely-a-happy-ending.

Ask yourself the question--why make an enduring emotional investment in another person? I imagine you could answer that question, but what if you couldn't?  What if that question viscerally felt like a complete abstraction? What would you need from people, and how would you treat them? As a means to an end--or only as a means, or perhaps a temporary respite. How adventurous, careless, dangerous, hurtful--would your actions be--if all you had was this moment-in-time?  There's a reason why Buddhism and DBT skills training helps people with BPD. It helps turn their almost nihilistic needs into something more focused and enlightened. 

We non's are the caretakers. We keep their anti-social needs in check, because we desire an enduring emotional investment--that will reward us. That reward is illusory. They are incapable of intimacy and idealization is fantasy.

The best way to sustain a relationship with a pwBPD is in a non-possessory manner, one-moment-at-a-time. It will seem that way to them, but to you there will be an emotional continuum. Balancing that with your own feelings and needs is... .I cannot say--like the "Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind."  But letting go of the attachment is-the-way. All things change. 

Does it not go a bit far as a non trying to witness the perspective of the view of a pwBPD? It's a ultimate severe and complex disorder where a non can try all he want to 'perceive' the way of life of the pwBPD but i've been told by my therapist that I should not even try or attempt to figure out how they think, why they think what they think and trying to analyze it. There is no gain in there. Now this of course does not compute for everyone as everyone is free to think and try whatever they want. I'm purely stating my opinion on this and how I go about my therapy of detachment of my BPD ex.

I think it's risky to try to even explain how they think or how we enable them. We are simply non-BPDers with our own deficiencies not professional psycho-therapists or shrinks. And there is certainly no 'best way'.

[Conundrum]

It's implicitly opinion as with all posts. Note the lack of citing references. Otherwise, a constant stream of "IMO," would become redundant ad nauseam. I respect your opinion, but I was trying to respond to another poster's direct question. Not an easy question to answer by-the-way.

If you care to know. What I wrote is about a person I know very well. No other. It's difficult to talk about these things without personal anecdotes--which I'm not always in the mood for. I've been with and without my pwBPD for over 8 years. We've ventured to some dark places together. I've come to the conclusion that we share more traits than I'd care to admit. That's all.

[Escaped 30.Sept.2013]

I also realize that he stopped working on his issues and I should of left when he stopped working on his problems!

Whether he was BPD or a dry drunk, his behavior was not something I could handle and something I don't want in the future!

Oh even more of the "same here! Me too!" - and yes, I was so proud of my man for being so brave and courageous and tackling his problems... .but I think when he was single, he did work on his problems. I think he stopped therapy and started with me about the same time (chicken and egg, no idea which came first), and I think he just lost the stability he had built up and it started spiralling for him... .

But that "Whether he was BPD or a dry drunk, his behavior was not something I could handle and something I don't want in the future!" is crucial, imo - mine has some kind of undiagnosed Cluster-B personality disorder. I think it's cyclothymia plus BPD, but I don't know - but frankly it doesn't matter!

It doesn't matter what he HAS - it matters what he DOES - and what mine does, and what yours does... .that behaviour has NO PLACE in my life or yours.

There's a publicity slogan for the Fire Service in the UK, what you're meant to do if there's a fire - "Get out - stay out - call us out"

And I reckon it applies to my relationship with my ex too.

GET out - stay out - call this messageboard out to help!

[Numbers]

If you were a pwBPD, unfettered since childhood by object constancy/object permanency and experiencing life-long chronic emptiness i.e. boredom--what would your needs be? If you couldn't self-sooth and normal felt dismal and boring, in the blink-of-an-eye, what would your coping-tools resemble?

Ok, I get what you meant now. IMO, this is not antisocial per se, but rather immature or defficient. Needs are by definition selfish, therefore my desperate need for love from BPD is also selfish. When you wrote "antisocial", I was a bit surprised and expected something like "I hurt therefore I will make everyone hurt to compensate".

Does it not go a bit far as a non trying to witness the perspective of the view of a pwBPD?

You would be 100% correct if you would say this to emotionally healthy person. I am not at this point in time. There will be another recycle attempt, I am positive. What if it happened today? I would most probably cave in at least to some form of enabling LC. Last time I managed 4 months NC and still surrendered at first opportunity, foolishly thinking I am over it. Right now, I am trying to bring my awareness of negatives to new level, as obviously I was either stupid or blind time and again.

Honestly, if I could be granted a wish, it would be that this whole mess fades into irrelevance before my boundaries get tested again.

[Accepting]

Another factor could be that they are so desperate for you not to leave them, that they throw EVERYTHING into being the perfect partner for you, the unconscious 'mirroring', doing everything to make you love them, make you feel great, make you stay... .

... .that, as you can iamgine pretty easily, is exhausting. And they start to feel exhausted by the effort. For which they then blame you (since above all, they cannot face their own fears that you will leave them). Since it's your fault, then that means you must be a controlling person, a mean person, a greedy, grasping, grabbing person, to force them to have to put all this effort in.

they become resentful and angry.

and the four-year-old throws a tantrum and they yell mean stuff and storm out of the room (or 'break up with you' as it's known in a 41-year-old four-year-old... .)... .then they come sobbing back, saying, "I'm sorry, Mommy, I love you, I never meant to say mean stuff" and because they made you feel soo great when they were throwing everything into it, you say, "oh baby, it's ok, c'mere little one, I love you too... ."

It's a very terrified child convinced their Mommy/Daddy is about to abandon them, because they are just about the most awful person alive, they know deep down.

That means an untreated/undiagnosed BPD is phenomenally destructive.

And it also means we need to look at why we don't recognise this pattern as Not Normal Relationship Behaviour much earlier on... .

I found this very relevant to my own experience with 'him'.

As to the last point, I overlooked 'not normal relationship behaviour' due to acknowledging that he'd gone through grief of his mother's recent death following on shortly after his divorce so I thought I was dealing with grief and depression - not that I was dealing with longer, more deeply set in patterns/behavioural/emotional issues. Also, for my own part I kept trying with him as I had the feeling things were fulfilled for me by him which previous partners had not been able to... .just a deeper level of connectedness and intimacy. A feeling of comfort and natural ease... .security, confidence. These I obviously paid a high price for however. These were also the trigger for us to become disengaged - over and over again - til I recognised clear cycles - and through research and finding this site that there was such a thing as BPD.

[HowCouldYou]

A pwBPD no doubt feels unlovable, while simultaneously feeling shame. But they do not feel unlovable or shame because of their actions. They feel both unlovable and shame because of their NEEDS. Their needs are secreted away. It is their secret garden of shame and delight. It is a place they dare not let anyone into, because their NEEDS are anti-social. A pwBPD actions are a manifestation of their needs--but they never truly let anyone dwell in that secret garden. It is their fortress of solitude. That is why they are incapable of intimacy--because they are ashamed of their needs-- that dwell inside the maladapted self.

CONUNDRUM, Thank you for sharing this. I have known that shame is at the root of BPD but have never heard of the "secret garden" aspect with regard to their undisclosed needs. This makes a lot of sense to me and fits my BPDW and explains why she never really let me in throughout our 25+ years together.

Also I was almost stunned to read your description because her favorite book of all time is titled "The Secret Garden"! Wow!

[HowCouldYou]

 My attempt at inserting a quote and commenting on it in my previous post has failed. 

Take two:

CONUNDRUM, Thank you for sharing. I have known that shame is at the root of BPD but have never heard of the "secret garden" aspect with regard to their undisclosed needs. This makes a lot of sense to me and fits my BPDW and explains why she never really let me in throughout our 25+ years together.

Also I was almost stunned to read your description because her favorite book of all time is titled "The Secret Garden"! Wow!