What is a pwBPD's view on Marriage?

[popeye6031]

I just wanted to put this question out there as I had mentioned this in another post.

I am engaged and wondering about what people see their BPD partner's view on marriage as.  

I have a picture in my head of how my fiance sees it should be. I want to see if this matches what it is really like for those who have experienced it.

I would also like to know if the things that were good before also disappear or if there. are just fewer of them?

[hopealways]

It only gets worse, way worse, after marriage.  When a BPD knows they have you, their devaluation tendencies increase tremendously.  For some BPD the "I have you" point is reached when the non shows he is in love, for others it is when they move in together, still for others it is when they are married.  For them, marriage is not about love like it should be for healthy individuals, because they cannot feel love (even though you have convinced yourself they do but their actions always show otherwise).

[MammaMia]

My dBPDs39 has decided he will never marry or have children.  He does not think it would be fair to anyone.

[GreenMango]

The million dollar question... .

Low threshold for disappointment

Unrealistic ideas about how marriage or kids will make her feel better

Abandonment and intimacy fears

Impulsive behavior and reactions to real or perceived slights or rejection

Changing feelings on self direction and identity or path in life

Do you see these behaviors in your relationship?

Can you ask her what she believes about marriage and have a series of talks about it?  If it was me I'd do premarital counseling - as a realty check.

Who you pick as your life partner will define a large part of your life-for better or worse.

[popeye6031]

Thanks for all the replies.

Greenmango, I see all those behaviours and have done since very early in the relationship.

My belief on what she thinks a marriage should be like is:

That all her demands will have to be met as she will feel she is more entitled to it (since we will be married).

There will be absolutely no privacy as all passwords for email, FB etc will have to be handed over (as there should be no secrets since we will be married).

She will have to know what I am doing every minute of the day (more so than now since we will be married and she is more entitled).

I expect demands to have children to come fairly quickly after marriage (since we will be married what is the point in waiting and she is therefore  more entitled).

She will expect to be forgiven more easily of abuse (since we will be married and therefore entitled to it).

I might be wrong but I am pretty sure this is how it will be as the devaluing and expectations of me got worse after we got engaged.  So I expect 10 fold after marriage.

[GreenMango]

Are you sure you want to get married looking at what you wrote?

[popeye6031]

I would say I am 80% sure that I don't. I love her very much but I cannot and will not live that way.

[HSsweetheart]

My BPDex was all about the event. The place the time, the ring, the thrill of something new and exciting. Nothing about the thought of growing old together, developing a deeper relationship, or trying to create true happiness.

[O.Hi]

popeye6031, how did you get engaged? How long have you been engaged?

[O.Hi]

hopealways' comment about the "I have you" point really made a lot of my experiences make sense. For my uBPDgf, I think the full "I have you" point came when she proposed to me out of the blue. I still felt deeply in love with her then, and I was deep in the FOG about her behavior. I said yes somewhat reluctantly, but saying no didn't seem an option.

Immediately afterwards she decided our engagement meant I would buy her a dog to celebrate. She convinced me to buy two and taking care of them soon became primarily my responsibility. A few weeks after that she decided I needed to buy her a new car. She raged and threatened to leave me if I didn't. I ended up buying a car that I hate with a burning passion (a tiny, lime green Hyundai).

It didn't take long for her to be very upset that she had proposed instead of the other way around. We had many fights where she demanded that I propose to her. We were already engaged. It didn't make any sense to me, and I didn't want to do it because someone screamed at me.

Our engagement is on hold now after a series of fights where I finally snapped and said something to the effect of "I can't do this anymore". This has been the only time during any of our fights that she has given up the offensive. We've taken a step or two back from the "I have you" point. Her insecurity and our fights have become much more constant, though she doesn't get to the same heights of rage. Maybe because she fears I will be quicker to get to the "I can't do this anymore" point.

[popeye6031]

Hi O Hi.

I have been engaged nearly 10 months. I did it exactly 1 year after we started dating, though she expected it within 4 or 5 months and it was a continuous point of many arguments.  So, even though I had my doubts, I proposed hoping that this would settle her  and make her more secure about us. I was wrong!  It got worse!  The type of verbal abuse definitely got more harsh and the level of accusations got far worse. It was like an argument every day for about 2 months.  The level of demands got bigger.

Funny, a lot of what you are saying rings true.  She talked about getting a dog before and i said no because I knew she would only bother with it like it was some toy.

We are long distance, which puts the pressure on more to be in contact with her all the time.  Beentrying to sort out a visa for her to come live with me for a while and not having mich luck.  So, that adds to the arguments and we have so many in the last few months, maybe 4 days in a row without, that we are kinda taking a break from our engagement. I told her I needed a break for a few days for myself as I just wanted a few days away from constantt watching my every move and having to keep her occupied.  She just could not get it it and managed to sway the conversation to the pressures she feels from her family.   I fell for it and my talk of some time to myself was completely forgotten about.

I am at the same point as you where her rages are a lot shorter because she knows I am at the "can't take this anymore" point, as you said.  I am mentally exhausted and constantly stressed out now. Something I was certainly not like before meeting her.

How long have you been together and do you see it lasting?

[O.Hi]

I told her I needed a break for a few days for myself as I just wanted a few days away from constant watching my every move and having to keep her occupied.  She just could not get it it and managed to sway the conversation to the pressures she feels from her family.

Interesting. My gf does the same thing. She makes the entire marriage conversation about the pressure she feels from friends, family and even societal expectations of women. She tells me my concerns are those of an "immature, afraid of commitment, selfish jerk".

How long have you been together and do you see it lasting?

We've been together a little over 4 years. She proposed two years ago when she was half way through grad school. We were going to get married when she finished school, but the conflict in our relationship continued to rise after the engagement, and it's now on hold.

After a year of personal therapy and trying two couples counselors, I've lost hope. My therapist said that he has seen couples work through abusive behavior but only when the abuser acknowledged their actions and then worked at changing them. I don't see my girlfriend ever admitting to herself that she has mistreated me. I can't change her, and I can't live with the way she treats me. I've gotta get out.

[popeye6031]

After a year of personal therapy and trying two couples counselors, I've lost hope. My therapist said that he has seen couples work through abusive behavior but only when the abuser acknowledged their actions and then worked at changing them. I don't see my girlfriend ever admitting to herself that she has mistreated me. I can't change her, and I can't live with the way she treats me. I've gotta get out.

Sorry to hear is has not gotten better since the therapy. It seems that therapy rarely works in the case of pwBPD's but especially if they will not admit it.

My gilrlfriend will admit it briefly to reel me back in when I am that "had enough" stage, but as long as she can get a jibe in there about how I am not the sweet person that she fell for and how i cannot let go of the past.   21 months of abuse, accusations and being on an emotional rollercoaster has kinda sapped the sweetness outta me. I am so not the person I used to be; antisocial, introverted, less friendly and stressed.  Like yourself, most of me wants to get out.

[GreenMango]

For all you that are considering marriage a couple of recommendations.

1. Check out the Choosing a Path lessons and checklist (over on the right margin -----> at the top).  It helps for decision making.

2. Check out the staying board for communication tools and ways to handle the emotional upheavals in the relationship.  Commit to trying them out consistently for a period of time. The good part about this is you'll see if things are getting better and more workable and whether it stops the bleeding as they say.  It also helps in knowing and feeling like you tried so if you decide to leave you aren't riddled with "what ifs?"

3.  Work on your end - that means getting your feet underneath you.  See a therapist if you can - having a partner who stuggles with emotional issues isn't easy.  Also tackle your own issues if you have them.  You'll feel more secure in your decisions and how to handle things as they come up.

4. If you are in an active relaionship and haven't done this, post on staying for functional advice and support.  Read the Staying Lessons. Make a commitment to "work the program" even in the good times because if it BPD this stuff cycles and getting caught on a down cycle can throw you for a loop.  The tools take awhile to become automatic.  

These are just suggestions.  The relationships aren't easy.  It's easy to talk about what's going on but there's something in there that makes you love or want to be with the person.  It takes changing some things.

[O.Hi]

I know exactly how you feel. It's rough.

My therapist encouraged me to put a lot of effort into taking care of myself, and, though I've lost hope in our relationship, I feel better about myself now than I ever have.

Some of his recommendations:

• Focus on learning to like, love, trust and respect myself.



• Reach out to friends and family and be open about what I'm going through. I had felt the need to hide everything before. I guess to avoid people thinking badly of my partner. This one really helped me solidify my belief that I am sane and my situation is not ok. Building a support network is really helpful in many ways, and your BPD partner may have been separating you from one you had before.



• Avoid self medication



• Think about what my needs and boundaries really are to see if they can ever be met in the relationship.



• Exercise



• Try progressive muscle relaxation. Basically a guided meditative exercise that helps you learn how to calm yourself physically. We often forget how much the mind follows the body.

[GreenMango]

Great advice! 

[popeye6031]

Thanks for the advice O.Hi.

I must say I am following most of those points except the first and last. I work out 5 or 6 times a week and have done since I was 12, so if not for that I would probably be insane.  I too kept most things back from my family for about a year. Eventually it became too much and I had to start confiding in them.  It helps big time, especially since my mum is a cognitive therapist. My fiance thinks they know the odd bit here and there. They know most of it. She cannot say anything about me to her family as I have spent a lot of time with them and they love me.  But to her friends, I am very sure I am being painted black.