Waiting for us... ?

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

I was dumped by him and have been NC for 9 weeks. Last time that happened, we got back together after 12 weeks NC, but only after I sent him a text first. If I hadn't sent that, I'm not sure he would have ever approached me to reconcile.

Therein lies my problem. Part of me wonders if, say, I contact him on his birthday in two weeks... .he might not come around again like that.

But. I don't want to contact him. I want him to contact me. If I contact him, then he will get to dictate the terms, since I'll have lost the game of chicken, I'll have shown my hand first while he maintains plausible deniability (even if he was hoping I'd contact too). And his "terms" will mean no therapy and less than full commitment to me.

Yet it's so frustrating to think that he might be sitting there waiting for me to call, as it were, but also refusing to call me himself because he doesn't want to show his hand and face the music of what that would mean... .

And yet, I realize I'm sort of doing the same thing; wanting him to contact, but refusing to initiate it. Except it's not "the same" because he was the dumper, it was his decision to end it, and do its only natural that I'd want to respect his decision and avoid exposing myself to additional rejection. My desire was always clear and constant; if ending it was his decision, then it should be on him to initiate if he wants to change that decision. For the dumper to desire reconciliation but expect the dumpee to initiate it... .is backwards, and just game-playing.

[UmbrellaBoy]

I was dumped by him and have been NC for 9 weeks. Last time that happened, we got back together after 12 weeks NC, but only after I sent him a text first. If I hadn't sent that, I'm not sure he would have ever approached me to reconcile.

Therein lies my problem. Part of me wonders if, say, I contact him on his birthday in two weeks... .he might not come around again like that.

But. I don't want to contact him. I want him to contact me. If I contact him, then he will get to dictate the terms, since I'll have lost the game of chicken, I'll have shown my hand first while he maintains plausible deniability (even if he was hoping I'd contact too). And his "terms" will mean no therapy and less than full commitment to me.

Yet it's so frustrating to think that he might be sitting there waiting for me to call, as it were, but also refusing to call me himself because he doesn't want to show his hand and face the music of what that would mean... .

And yet, I realize I'm sort of doing the same thing; wanting him to contact, but refusing to initiate it. Except it's not "the same" because he was the dumper, it was his decision to end it, and do its only natural that I'd want to respect his decision and avoid exposing myself to additional rejection. My desire was always clear and constant; if ending it was his decision, then it should be on him to initiate if he wants to change that decision. For the dumper to desire reconciliation but expect the dumpee to initiate it... .is backwards, and just game-playing.

[Reg]

Hi UB,

Don't let your ex partner fool you on that matter.

You are doing a good thing with the NC.  Als if he contacts you, forget about having terms you can use.  It is no use.  My ex partner took contact to talk about her pbd, she actually just tried to recycle me.  She wasn't planning to do anything about it.

I know of another BPD who had also an alcohol problem, and who was going to face that at first to keep a chance on a relationship, it were just all mirrors and smoke.

They may try anything for a recycle, give you hope, etc.

If a person is really important to them, and if they want to change, they would take contact again and say, hey I'm this far in therapy, I can proof it, or do you want to tlak to my therapist and help me or support me ?  That would be a sign that is acceptable, all the rest, no thanks, I would personally not even react on that.

Just my two cents.

Hang in there an be strong for your own sake !

Reg

[Numbers]

If I contact him, then he will get to dictate the terms, since I'll have lost the game of chicken, I'll have shown my hand first while he maintains plausible deniability (even if he was hoping I'd contact too).

I can tell you from my own experience that you will not win this game whichever way you play it. My ex was always the one to initiate contact, but after a while made me pay for it - i was criticized for not initiating, then criticized for not responding in a way she thought I should have. It is a hard pill to swallow to pick up the phone and contact someone you hurt, a BPD will need to compensate this somehow down the line.

[laelle]

If I contact him, then he will get to dictate the terms, since I'll have lost the game of chicken, I'll have shown my hand first while he maintains plausible deniability (even if he was hoping I'd contact too).

I can tell you from my own experience that you will not win this game whichever way you play it. My ex was always the one to initiate contact, but after a while made me pay for it - i was criticized for not initiating, then criticized for not responding in a way she thought I should have. It is a hard pill to swallow to pick up the phone and contact someone you hurt, a BPD will need to compensate this somehow down the line.

THIS

Also, try to keep in mind that it is NOT possible to have an intimate, healthy, long lasting relationship with someone who has BPD... .  Are you not showing yourself a HUGE amount of love by NOT initiating contact and discovering healthy ways of getting the comfort you are seeking.  Pain can not take away pain.

[Afool]

The hardest part about bpdfamily is that although you get a ton of information about BPD, the bottom line is that almost always the relationship is not going to work. It's also very hard to accept this. In your mind you WANT to tell yourself that maybe there is no sickness and maybe they are actually normal so you actually don't have to believe that they are never going to get better. But the fact remains, if you didn't think that there was something seriously off with this person, than you wouldn't be on a site like this. I've been in relationships and when it ended, I could put my finger on specifically what went wrong. I didn't have to start putting together this puzzle of confusion and searching out answers. With a BPD, there is always going to be a "what the hell happened?" aspect to the break up. I think no contact is the best way to go, but you seem very confused. You might need to make contact to actually show yourself what you are going to get from this person. My guess is that it will start with chit chat, if you're texting you are gonna get how great of a time they are having, a lot of "LOL's" to let you know that this is all a joke, and if and when you start to express your feelings, he is going to put on the defense mechanisms and let you have it, pretend you didn't end it, and cut off contact... .You will be vilified, accused, humiliated and laughed at for your emotional openness. I had to see for myself, I did, and I learned.

[laelle]

The end result is brutal, but unless they are in therapy, they have ZERO chance of ever being a fair and equal partner.

You have zero chance of getting your wants and needs heard.  You are important and you deserve to have your wants and needs heard.

I understand completely how you feel.  I was where you are.  Luckily my ex had the strength to not contact me and I showed him the same favor.  The most loving thing

we ever did for each other was to leave each other alone.

[Ironmanrises]

Umbrella... .

I can see... .

What it is... .

You really want.

A logical outcome... .

To a situation... .

With a disordered person... .

Whom you love... .

Where that very logic... .

Does not fit... .

At all.

And that logic... .

Will... .

Only result... .

(Assuming he were to return to you... .

And tell you everything... .

That you wanted to hear... .)... .

In either... .

You leaving him again... .

Due to him... .

Once again showing... .

The "flakiness"... .

Of his behavior that you described... .

Or most likely... .

Him once again... .

Negating everything he said... .

And displaying to you... .

All his awful behavior again.

Both results... .

The latter more probable... .

Will mean... .

That your heart... .

Will once again be ripped from chest.

That is the disorder.

There is no overcoming it.

Regardless... .

If he returns to you... .

Or you reach out to him.

Regardless... .

If he makes every single concession to you... .

(Therapy requires years... .)... .

And is not a cure for their behavior.

His disorder... .

Will ensure... .

In all its destructive force... .

That their is... .

No... .

Productive intimate relationship.

[Learning_curve74]

I want to question a few things here. In any reconciliation, what does it matter who contacts first? Both sides should have expectations of things that must change for it to work out the second (or third, fourth, etc) time around. Do you fully expect him to only acquiesce to your conditions and for him to have no say in what he wishes you would change? What happens if he contacts you, you give him an ultimatum, and he refuses?

You don't have to have a personality disorder to be afraid of being the one to initiate contact, many people may want to get back together with an ex but maybe afraid to contact them for various reasons. It could be pride or it could be fear of rejection or maybe something else. It isn't necessarily a game, and probably a healthy adult wouldn't make it into a game. Doesn't it take two people to play games?

If you are truly serious about another go around, I would suggest reading as much of the lessons on the Staying board as you can while you are figuring out what you will do. They use the term "radical acceptance" there which basically means you have to accept the pwBPD as is AND you have to accept that it is YOU who will have to change if you want to have a relationship. This is because the only true power you have is to change yourself not anybody else.

I think we all can understand your struggle. These are all things I have felt and thought (and sometimes still do feel and think): I wish with all my heart that I could change my exBPDgf, without the dysfunctional behaviors we could be perfect together, if only she wasn't BPD, she is the one for me, I'm so miserable without her, I'm losing the love of my life. To be brutally honest, all these things are like thinking how happy we will be spending the money we could win from the lottery; we are rarely unhappy because we are not financially wealthy and it is extremely unlikely that we will win the lottery. Simply being in a relationship is not going to solve all our problems and make us happy, and the chances a pwBPD will heal enough to manage their condition is very low. Yes I might win the lottery and she might overcome her BPD, but I'd be crazy to plan my future around either of those things coming true.

[UmbrellaBoy]

I want to question a few things here. In any reconciliation, what does it matter who contacts first? Both sides should have expectations of things that must change for it to work out the second (or third, fourth, etc) time around. Do you fully expect him to only acquiesce to your conditions and for him to have no say in what he wishes you would change? What happens if he contacts you, you give him an ultimatum, and he refuses?

Well, then I say "Ok, well, you're the one who contacted me, so... .too bad. Buh-bye. If you really want me back (you're the one who initiated this after all) then this is what I need from you. You should have known that, but you've now said you can't do it, so... .why the hell did you even bother contact me? Don't contact me again until you are willing to acquiesce to the 'ultimatum' and if you try to re-initiate contact without saying 'ok, I'll do that,' I won't respond anymore."

To be honest, he never had demands about things he wanted me to change other than, unreasonably, seeming to want me to acquiesce to continuing to be strung along without firm commitments of any sort from him! The only complaint he really ever had about me in our relationship... .was my desire to define it!

It's like, even when he'd crawl back to me in the past, his offer was usually something like, "Ok, I've realized I need you in my life, so in order to keep you I'm willing to 'keep the door open' regarding us 'moving towards' a 'potential' relationship... .but in exchange I want 'more time' and for you not to press commitment or insist on a label 'right now.'"

And since I felt I needed hope more than anything, I was willing to accept being strung along like this in exchange for him remaining in my life and not letting the dream die (by, say, definitively closing the door or getting involved officially with anyone else).

But I'm tired of that sort of waffling ambiguity, and would not accept such an offer this time around, if he came back. I don't think wanting the relationship defined as official and exclusive and committed is unreasonable at all.

You don't have to have a personality disorder to be afraid of being the one to initiate contact, many people may want to get back together with an ex but maybe afraid to contact them for various reasons. It could be pride or it could be fear of rejection or maybe something else. It isn't necessarily a game, and probably a healthy adult wouldn't make it into a game. Doesn't it take two people to play games?

True. But I feel like if you're the one who made the decision to end it, and the other person (me) made it clear we wanted to keep going... .then it's on the dumper to re-initiate contact, because they're the one who made the decision, and therefore the one who is changing their mind.

Because he was the dumper and I fought at first to stop it, he knows that if he re-approached me, I'd probably be willing at least to negotiate to try to make it work. I have no such guarantees when it comes to him: he said he wanted to end it, so until I hear from him otherwise, why should I think there is any hope (except past experience) that his mind has changed? If he said it's over, and hasn't come back saying he's changed his mind, why should I put myself at risk for yet another direction, at risk of being told "I thought I made myself clear 10 weeks ago: it's over." If he's the one changing his mind, then he should be the one taking the initiative to tell me that and make it clear to me.

[Traumatized]

Umbrellaboy:  I understand what you're going through.  A few months ago when mine had broken things off with me I used her birthday as an excuse to make contact with her again.  I sent her a heartfelt card with money inside and awaited her response.  I didn't hear anything.  I texted her and wished her a happy birthday.  Still nothing.  I texted again and asked if she got what I sent her.  She finally texted back that she didn't.  I started freaking out and told her it was really important.  She wanted to know what it was that I sent because she was scared.  She thought it might be a bomb.  I told her it was a card with something inside.  She demanded to know exactly what was in it or she wouldn't open it.  I didn't want to spoil the surprise, but she forced me to tell her. 

When she got the card... .and the money... .she was happy and we started seeing each other again.  Of course it didn't last and we were on again off again until a couple of weeks ago when she broke things off for what appears to be the final time.  I decided not to contact her again unless she contacted me first.  She did and we had a 14 second phone conversation.  To me that wasn't enough to warrant contacting her back.  She may not want me to anyway.