Trying to stay strong...

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

I left my BPD wife in September and because of an affair and suicide attempt. We've had a lot of other issues over the past few years, but not quite to the degree that some people describe on here, until this past 4 months.

Now she is back in DBT and seems to be doing things properly. She's grieving, she's still fighting for me, she admits her mistakes, she apologized for everything, and we actually were laughing together during these tough times. We sold our house and were packing up and it was tough at times (normal) and we had some fun as well. She's very committed (for now) to her therapy and she's done it in the past. I know you're supposed to look at the facts but can they really do well with DBT? Can a pwBPD really have a family and decent life? I'm really struggling right now because she is doing the right things and we both are in a lot of pain.

One of the things that keeps me moving forward is the thread titles in the 'staying' forum. I don't mean to be disrespectful of other peoples decisions but things look difficult for them. They're much stronger than I am.

Question I have is, if they are diagnosed and stick to treatment, can they really make dramatic improvements? Does anyone here know of people that have had this type of success?

I literally can't stand this pain and I know things will never be the same, in this relationship or the next.

[Mase11]

I left my BPD wife in September and because of an affair and suicide attempt. We've had a lot of other issues over the past few years, but not quite to the degree that some people describe on here, until this past 4 months.

Now she is back in DBT and seems to be doing things properly. She's grieving, she's still fighting for me, she admits her mistakes, she apologized for everything, and we actually were laughing together during these tough times. We sold our house and were packing up and it was tough at times (normal) and we had some fun as well. She's very committed (for now) to her therapy and she's done it in the past. I know you're supposed to look at the facts but can they really do well with DBT? Can a pwBPD really have a family and decent life? I'm really struggling right now because she is doing the right things and we both are in a lot of pain.

One of the things that keeps me moving forward is the thread titles in the 'staying' forum. I don't mean to be disrespectful of other peoples decisions but things look difficult for them. They're much stronger than I am.

Question I have is, if they are diagnosed and stick to treatment, can they really make dramatic improvements? Does anyone here know of people that have had this type of success?

I literally can't stand this pain and I know things will never be the same, in this relationship or the next.

[GreenMango]

Hi Mase

That is a tough situation. 

Dbt can work it takes some time and commitment.  There are stories of recovery.  Many of success stories are specifically geared towards alleviating those more extreme behaviors - suicidal ideation, threats, drug use, self harm.

Try not to beat yourself up too much over being tired and scared not knowing if you can continue. 

Having a personal therapist is recommended.  Do youhave one?

[Mase11]

Yes, I've been receiving counselling since March when I found out about BPD. She's been a great help, but everyone I talk to says that living with a pwBPD is an extremely difficult life and they don't recover. They can progress over time and the major symptoms will fade away but you'll be struggling with the rest of the symptoms forever, and you'll be lucky if the other symptoms go away. I've also read that recovery doesn't always last. I don't know, maybe it's time I see someone who specializes in BPD by myself and ask some difficult questions, however they'll just end up telling me that with therapy they can recover and have a fairly normal life.

Recently my wife switched psychiatrists and she informed her that she may have been born a borderline and that's why her symptoms are so severe. Her moms a borderline and recent studies are showing that you can be born a borderline. She's had several suicide attempts which she's only had one since I've been around, that's one in 4 years and she had around 12 in her life. She's had other major symptoms since I've been with her but she's worked on them and had some success. For example, we had 20k on our line of credit thanks to her and we worked together and paid it off. Meanwhile this whole time she never told me she had BPD so she was doing this on her own, but eventually she snapped.

I firmly believe that if she was honest with me I could have helped her through the difficult times like get her back to the things she should be doing. It sucks because we didn't have that daily chaotic lifestyle that most people on here talk about. We only had the major symptoms. It's weird. Maybe it's just the beginning.

Anyway, thanks for the response. I never thought this was going to be so difficult. I've always thought if I was abused like this then I would just be able to move on but dealing with BPD it's very tough. You hate to see them self destruct.

[GreenMango]

The recent studies are showing a genetic and environment combination to developing BPD.  Genetically sensitive and then an invalidating or abusive environment to unleash to disorder. 

It can be a very long road.  Some of the dynamic lies with the support (or family) in the sense of making things worse by enabling, being invalidating, etc.  And cleaning that up could show some workable improvements.

There is a guide to the right margin on choosing a path with steps.  You may want to check it out.

Each person with BPD is a little different.  Not all show signs of self harm while other do.  Some people have suicidal ideation while others may have self medicating coping issues.

What was the home life like? 

[Mase11]

Home life was good for a bit. As long as something exciting was going on then she was fine. After IVF failed she regressed slowly but it was clear something was going on. Then it was during the second attempt when she snapped. I stopped the treatment and found out she had BPD. After learning how to deal with this I set boundaries and things never seemed the same. This led to the affair.

Who in their right mind goes through IVF without one partner knowing the other has BPD? All her family and friends knew as she was diagnosed in 2006. I still can't get over this, there's know way a pwBPD should do IVF.

Anyway, life was good for us considering she had BPD as long as there was something positive keeping her going, stuff that you cannot sustain over a lifetime (marriage, honeymoon, new house etc.). Then the daily grind set in and a few misfortunes and it all blew up.

[GreenMango]

People with BPD aren't really known for great coping skills.  When times are good they are really good.  Real life stuff not so much.

And the child bearing/rearing issues seem to bring up a lot of problems.

Do you two live together now? Separated?

[maxsterling]

"Who in their right mind goes through IVF without one partner knowing the other has BPD? All her family and friends knew as she was diagnosed in 2006. I still can't get over this, there's know way a pwBPD should do IVF."

Somehow, this scares the crap out of me.  I would hope that fertility clinics would scan medical and criminal histories of patients and if there is a history of mental illness or abuse they would deny someone, right?

My dBPD girlfriend had an abortion about a year before I met her.  And she says afterwards she thought about visiting a fertility clinic to get pregnant again, because she thought just sleeping around in order to get pregnant was unethical (the fact she told me that leads me to believe she either did that too, or contemplated doing that).  I have always assumed the fertility clinic would have taken a look at her medical history, and tell her "we can't help you".  The thought of her as a mother right now was enough for even my therapist to fall out of her chair.  There is no question in my mind if she had carried that baby, that baby would have been abused. 

[Mase11]

We have been separated for two months now. I have my good days and bad days, things haven't gotten any easier. When she had the affair and then attempted suicide I removed myself from the situation so I could think clearly. It's helped because the day to day stuff isn't there to interfere. However, it's so difficult as you have to power to end everyones pain, or at least that's what you think. Once the grieving period is over I'm sure I'd be better off without.

It's truly amazing now when I think back that the fertility clinic doesn't screen their patients more. With all the hormones they pump through them, a pwBPD can't handle that, look what happened here.  That would have been my child, with a wife that I'd found out soon has BPD. I really struggle that people could keep that from me.

It's amazing the thought process. You just want to lose it, laugh or just sit there and shake your head. Sleeping around to get pregnant? Raising a child on her own? That's tough enough for someone who doesn't have a mental illness. They get one thing on their mind and they don't stop until they get what they want. Has she received DBT?

I'm so grateful for the things I'm able to do in life since I have had to deal with a pwBPD. I really feel for them, the pain they feel. However, we are not capable of making them better. We don't have that power.

[Pearl55]

Mase11, I've been told by my psychiatrist who's specialised in BPD that recovery is possible but up to 50% and years of intense therapy needed. Normally, change is very scary for them.

[GreenMango]

Mase

Since you two are already in a separation have you thought about a more structured one like a therapeutic separation?  With the oversight of a therapist it may help to structure your decision a bit.

Do you see eachother regularly? Is she wanting to stay married?  Would she be willing to see a therapist?

[Mase11]

We are going to head down that direction of marriage counselling. I've gotten help myself since March. It's helped a lot.

We do see each other every week, however we just spent a few days together moving out of our house that just sold. The time spent moving was tough (emotionally) but she made it enjoyable, which is extremely difficult.

She definitely wants to remained married, she reminds me daily. She is the one pushing for help and I'm willing to do so. The issue I'm having is her history and knowing what she is capable of. I mean 12 suicide attempts (not all actual attempts) is pretty tough and throw in an affair and I just don't know if I'm capable of giving her the support she needs right now, or ever. She does fairly well on a daily basis but when things spiral out of control she is extreme. She's been through DBT before so why are things different now? She has a pattern she can't seem to break.

[GreenMango]

Those are definitely things I would think about too.  They are those important future questions.

When she went thru dbt before did she just go thru the motions? Or did she do the full program with the follow up support?

Dbt usually shows a lot of improvement with the more severe characteristics like suicidal thoughts and attempts.

I'd like to suggest that you post on the staying board too regarding how to approach supporting the therapy portion and questions because some of the senior staying board members have quite a bit of experience dealing with the more severe aspects.  I believe their advice would be helpful.  

You can post in undecided at the same time.

[maxsterling]

Mase - yes, she went through DBT.  A year and a half of DBT according to her.  That was 11 years ago.  She hasn't attempted suicide since, but she does have suicidal thoughts and makes suicidal statements.  The DBT also stopped the cutting, and stopped the drug and alcohol abuse.   But she still scratches at herself and hits herself when upset, and sometimes I fear she is really, really close to picking up drugs or alcohol again. 

And her desperately wanting a baby thing is tired into the fear of abandonment.  She told me that if she has a baby, then she will have someone who will always be there for her.  I told my therapist that, and she interrupted me and said "I just heard a MAJOR red flag."

[Mase11]

Green Mango - I didn't know her when she went through the first time. I heard she had good results but didn't stick with it. However, at every point in time since things calmed down then she's had one or more major symptoms going on. My guess is that her family thought she was doing well because her focus switched from them to me.

maxsterling - I heard that same excuse on why things aren't good. It's always something. She told me that if we didn't miscarry twice that none of this would have happened and we would be happy. The miscarriage led to psychosis, then an affair, suicide attempt (100 prescription pills, 4 different kinds and taken before bed=real attempt) and then cutting her wrists up. They may not be wrong that the baby in your case or the miscarriage in mine may have changed things, but it would have been temporary, until something else came along that triggered a reaction. Maybe something as simple as raising a child. It's kinda scary thinking of the situation now.