Pls Help Court date on Monday and have to decide whether or not to drop case

[Nina1111]

Starting 15 years ago, my older sister started having rages and paranoid behavior. She started accusing everyone of molesting her and started thinking we were hiding people in our house that would hurt her. Over the years she has targeted every single one of our family members ranging in physical abuse, verbal abuse, stealing, snooping, planting "evidence" that would support her paranoia, property damage and more. She's been arrested because she cannot control her anger.

Earlier this year in March, she accused me of taking money and then attacked me. She almost choked me to death. I called the police, she was arrested, jailed and released. I got an Emergency protective order to have her removed from the home. She violated it as soon as she got out of jail and then proceeded to sneak in to the house every night after that when we were asleep. I got a permanent restraining order which she violated again when she went to the gym to try to convince us to move out. The District Attorney is prosecuting her for disobeying the restraining order, not for choking me. She has been sleeping in her car for 8 months now though we've offered her money for hotels, use of either of our two RV's, even a free apartment in one of the apartment complexes my family owns. She refuses it all. It is cold now around 20-30 degrees at night. I feel so guilty, worried and confused. I feel very strongly that God wants me to show her mercy but also I worry and my family worries that if she gets away with this behavior that she'll think she can continue her bad behavior with no repercussions. She's already said that nothing ever happens and it's no big deal to get arrested.

I spoke with the District Attorney today and she said we can drop her case. She says even if we did go to court, the sentence would be light- like probation or community service. We can ask the judge to include mental evaluation and treatment but it would not be enforceable. I feel that even if we did force her to get treatment she wouldn't be willing to go and certainly would not cooperate with telling the counselor the truth. I'm thinking that I should have a family mediation with the district attorney and lay out our limits and boundaries with her like she needs to find her own place, she can't abuse us anymore, etc. but that we make sure she hears that we do care about her and love her. We just have to keep ourselves safe until she can control her anger. I wonder if we can get her to agree to some behavioral modifications and tell her we'll drop the case if she agrees.

I'm just worried that if we go to court it will make her not trust us even more and not want to cooperate. I also think the slap on the wrist she'll get if she doesn't get convicted and even if she does and it's an unenforceable sentence, she'll feel even more invincible. On the other hand, if we can get a conviction, at least she'll finally have something on her record. All her other incidences were dropped by my mother and/or father.

What should I do?

She has never been diagnosed but I believe she has higher functioning (invisible) BPD (no suicidal tendencies), narcissistic with paranoia, depression and maybe bipolar issues (cycle seems to be every four months).

Please help!

[clairedair]

Hi Nina111



Normally on the 'Newbie' Board, we try to get to know the new members a little and find out more about their situation.  As you have a court date that's imminent, your query is somewhat urgent and I think that it may be worth you posting a message to the 'dealing with a relative' board:

[L5]  Coping and Healing from a BPD Parent, Sibling, or Inlaw Board

Folks there will have been/are in similar situations and may be best place to offer some support.  There is a 'legal' board though this deals mainly with court cases around divorce/custody.

It sounds as if some very serious behaviour has had minor consequences and it's understandable that you are conflicted about the best way to proceed when you care about her.

I will mention your post to one of the Advisors in case they can help further.

take care,

Claire

[Waddams]

Let me welcome you as well!  

Always nice to see new faces, even if the circumstances that brought here aren't that great.  We're glad you're here.    

The board Nina referred you too is a good one, as well as the Legal Board here for what you are dealing with.  One of the things to consider is that the DA is likely right, this conviction will result in a minor slap on the wrist, and could conceivably not be much of a deterrent to future misconduct.  HOWEVER, having the conviction history documented is very important for dealing with future issues if court involvement is required again later on.  Then, second offenses for the same thing generally get harsher consequences.  Third offenses harsher still.  If you want to be able to have the court protect you effectively in the future, going through with charges now will set you up stronger in the future.

This:

I'm thinking that I should have a family mediation with the district attorney and lay out our limits and boundaries with her like she needs to find her own place, she can't abuse us anymore, etc. but that we make sure she hears that we do care about her and love her.

and this:

On the other hand, if we can get a conviction, at least she'll finally have something on her record. All her other incidences were dropped by my mother and/or father.

and this:

I also think the slap on the wrist she'll get if she doesn't get convicted and even if she does and it's an unenforceable sentence, she'll feel even more invincible.

Is it possible that she already feels invincible because there's already a history of nobody following through?  She doesn't think anything will happen because she's been here before and no consequences have occurred before.  If you drop it again, it's just the same cycle.  To end this, you are going to have to break the cycle and do something different.

On the other hand, if we can get a conviction, at least she'll finally have something on her record.

Ask the DA what impact having a prior conviction will have on a future incident.  Because there's likely going to be a future incident given the history.  She's going to cry and agree to anything in front of the judge/DA.  This has happened before I'm betting.  Has she followed through?  Not if she's attacking you, choking you, and violating the RO.

After reading the rest of your story, loving someone doesn't mean you have to let them hurt you.  God doesn't require you to martyr yourself to save an abuser that is hurting you from consequences.  God wants you to be strong and have a better life than this.   I know she's your sister and you care about her and want to see her get better, but that won't happen as long as she's allowed to keep behaving as she does.  You're going to have to set boundaries for yourself to protect yourself from her, and when she sees that it's either shape up or ship out, she'll make a choice of one or the other, and you'll have to let go, let her make it, and live with the aftermath one way or another.

[maxen]

hi nina.   another welcome to these boards. waddams has already given you good advice and i have nothing to add from a legal point of view. however:

I'm thinking that I should have a family mediation with the district attorney and lay out our limits and boundaries with her like she needs to find her own place, she can't abuse us anymore, etc. but that we make sure she hears that we do care about her and love her. We just have to keep ourselves safe until she can control her anger. I wonder if we can get her to agree to some behavioral modifications and tell her we'll drop the case if she agrees.

my mother has had paranoia for as long as i've been around (and, i'm guessing, from before i was born) and i can tell you that it never remits. to the best of my knowledge (i am not an MD) there is no treatment. i doubt your sister will ever be able not to abuse you. you may want to consider that in your expectations and plans.

i wish you the very best in this difficult situation and please keep us posted.

[livednlearned]

Hi nina,

It's hard to make these kinds of choices -- so sorry you're shouldering this. It's not easy dealing with courts and BPD.

My experience with the courts is through divorce/custody, but one thing I've noticed with others with situations like yours (family members) is that it's particularly hard to hand over authority. Partly because we prefer to manage it on our own. But BPD is hard to manage -- the fact that you filed a restraining order after she attempted to choke you means you know she is a danger. By negotiating with your sister after taking serious steps, you send her the same message she has already received from being arrested: there are no consequences.

Maybe it would help to think about what outcomes you want? Do you think she needs treatment? It's possible that a judge, while she or he cannot enforce it, will order a psychiatric evaluation. Would it help you, as a family, to have her formally diagnosed?

If she is diagnosed, it's possible that any future consequences will take that into account, and any sentence she receives will be viewed through that light.

Just thinking out loud here.

So while a court cannot enforce therapy, it can order residential treatment instead of, say, jail time.

[momtara]

The advice you got from professionals is nonsense.

There are ways to force an evaluation of someone or at least have them taken to the hospital, in many places.  Local hospitals have emergency crisis units that can come out and try to convince someone to go in.  If they are incarcerated or in court or something, you have a little more leverage in that regard.

Your sister may be paranoid schizophrenic rather than or in addition to having BPD. 

My mother spent months running around homeless because she thought people were after her.  She wasn't violent but she was a danger to herself.  Generally the standard for involuntary commitment in most states is that the person is a danger to herself or others.

When she finally got to my house asking for money, I had her come in, then quietly called the mobile crisis unit.  She admitted that she thought people were after her.  They took her in and I went along.  The police came and I said that I'd like to file charges IF it was necessary to keep her in the same place.  Rather than have that happen, my mom went to the hospital.

After about 7 hours, they told her that she had to commit herself to the psych ward, or they'd commit her.  She signed herself in.  They kept her there for a few weeks.  If I had agreed for her to release her into my care, that would have happened, but I said no.  So they had more time to treat her.  (The doctor quietly told me to say no.)

Unfortunatley, she eventually went back off her medicine and was on the street again.  Then she started taking buses around the country.  In a different state than mine, where apparently the commitment standard is lower, someone called the cops because she was behaving weirdly, and they put her into a hospital for 8 weeks and got her on the right medicine.  By the time she left, the delusions were gone.  She got an apartment and became a productive person for several years until she got off the meds again.

I work with mentally ill people too, and while there is a chance of your sis getting hurt out in the cold or on the street, generally people who are homeless survive.  She will not get the help she needs if you drop the case.

Call your local hospital and ask for the psychiatric ward or call the county hospital if there's a medical center that is seen as the main hospital in your county/province/parish.  Talk to someone who is in charge of community outreach for psych services, or whoever is in charge of the mobile crisis unit.  It may take a few phone calls to get to the right people, but there should be a mental health specialist or someone on the psych ward who is a doctor and can tell you what you would do in this case. 

let's say the cops are called to a situation where someone is behaving erratically.  Who is called to perform an evaluation?  There must be someone.

The DA should be giving you better information. 

OH!  Call the local chapter of NAMI.  They may know what to do.  The national organization (for family members of mentally ill person) has local chapters in most counties and states, and the officers are generally quite knowledgeable.

Do some work today and tomorrow and you should get better answers.  Now is the time to find out your best course of action.

If your sister is a danger to others or herself (clearly she is a danger to others), she needs help and needs commitment or at least an evaluation.  There are laws in each state about this.  You just have to get the right info.  Lots of people will give you wrong info, but keep pushing.  There are people who know the answers and can help.

[Matt]

Talk to the prosecutor as soon as you can - before court if possible.  Find out how things work where you live.

Here's how it works where I live:

The victim of a crime can't decide about dropping the charges, or about the sentence, but has the right to be heard, first by the prosecutor, before court, and then by the judge, in court.  The judge will ask, "Is the victim here?" and you say, "I'm here Your Honor."  (Or you can make yourself known to the bailiff before court just to make sure.)  The judge will ask what you think of any proposal by the prosecutor - for example, the prosecutor may say, "The People ask that the defendant be sentenced to such-and-such.", and when it's your turn, you can say, "I think that is an appropriate sentence." or "I believe that is too harsh." or "I think that would be too soft and she might attack us again."  The judge is not obligated to do what you say, but I've seen a few cases, and the judge always seemed to take the victim's statement into account.

You can also say how her actions have affected you and others in your family:  "Her actions have made us afraid to go out, and made us feel unsafe in our home, and have cost us about $X to fix things she damaged."

I think in talking with the prosecutor - before court - you might be able to find out if mandatory evaluation and treatment is an option.  If you can force an objective psych eval, that might move things in a good direction, because there will be an objective way to say what her problem is, and what treatment is mostly likely to help her.  Then if you can get the judge to order that treatment, it will force your sister to decide - either get treatment and work on her problem, or violate the judge's order, which will make things go badly for her the next time she faces that judge.

I would urge you not to agree for the charges to be dropped.  The court will not take you seriously next time if you do that, and the prosecutor won't either - they will consider this a family drama and not something they need to deal with.

You can still say, to your sister and to the judge, "We all care and want what is best for her."  What is best for her is probably a combination of consequences - which may include jail - and treatment.  She is more likely to accept diagnosis and treatment if she experiences jail - maybe a short time at first, but the risk of a longer sentence if she doesn't get help.

One more thing... .I would suggest that you make it very clear to everyone - the prosecutor, the judge, and your sister - that it is not OK for her to be on your property.  Change the locks and make it 100% clear that if she comes to your home - even outside - you will call the police, you will report her for trespassing, and you will support a jail sentence for her.  No exceptions - she is not to be on your property.

But... .let her know that if she acts right, you will still try to help her - maybe visit her in jail or wherever she is - help her financially (but not too much) - write to her - make it clear to her that you want what is best for her.  But you must meet her at a safe place - go where she is - not at your home.  Being weak about that boundary won't work - you have to be 100% consistent or nobody will take the boundary seriously, and you'll still have that chaos in your life.

[ForeverDad]

I'm just worried that if we go to court it will make her not trust us even more and not want to cooperate.

This stood out to me.  How in the world have your actions or inactions ever made her act better or worse?  (It's often noted here that inaction often encourages and enables more boundary violations.)  Thus far she's always done what she's wanted, ignoring the consequences.  My thoughts: stop worrying abut her and start worrying about yourselves.  Nearly choked to death?  Yikes!  Doing something may not work but doing nothing certainly will not work.  In my experience.

I also think the slap on the wrist she'll get if she doesn't get convicted and even if she does and it's an unenforceable sentence, she'll feel even more invincible. On the other hand, if we can get a conviction, at least she'll finally have something on her record. All her other incidences were dropped by my mother and/or father.

"At least she'll finally have something on her record."  That's precisely the point.  Without a history of convictions, the prior arrests may not mean much.  Sadly, she is resistant to the gentle hints thus far.  Proceed - with caution of course.

[livednlearned]

I'm just worried that if we go to court it will make her not trust us even more and not want to cooperate.

This stood out to me.  How in the world have your actions or inactions ever made her act better or worse?  (It's often noted here that inaction often encourages and enables more boundary violations.)  Thus far she's always done what she's wanted, ignoring the consequences.  My thoughts: stop worrying abut her and start worrying about yourselves.  Nearly choked to death?  Yikes!  Doing something may not work but doing nothing certainly will not work.  In my experience.

I think this is something we all go through, nina1111. When it's "in the family," we think we're managing it. Kind of. But then it spirals, and it gets bigger than us, and we aren't quite ready to see that we weren't really managing it, because we really can't. It's too big. It's an important part of healing, learning to let go of the fear, obligation, and guilt. And some of the control, too.

You may not see an immediate positive impact on your sister -- when you set a boundary like this, prepare for some fireworks. But I know in my own situation that setting a boundary had amazing effects on other parts of my family, including me, and that extended to other relationships outside my family. Taking care of yourself, especially when it's under duress like this, can be really powerful, and not in ways we can always anticipate. Sometimes, too, it takes a while for the good stuff to show up, so be patient.

 

[Matt]

Yeah, that's one of the big things we learn when we get perspective - that all our efforts to "fix" the other person, or to do stuff that will make them happy, or keep them from being angry, just don't work.

If she has BPD or something similar - and from your description, it's pretty clear she has some pretty serious problem(s) - then nothing you do will keep her from acting out.

Stepping away - getting some distance - establishing and maintaining boundaries - over time, these can all be helpful for her as well as for you and your family.

But the way to think about it isn't, "If I do this maybe she will act right.", but "If I do this, my family and I will be affected less by her unpredictable behavior."