Caught in the FOG... how do I get out?

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

My situation is the following: I want out DESPERATELY but can't right away. I'm looking for a job and have gone back to school (which he pays for to get more education). I have the same living arrangements as my uBPDh and will have for the next two years or so.

At least we aren`t sleeping in the same bed - he's sleeping in our sons room. He says the extra bedroom is too lonely. Anyway, I have been really good at maintaining my boundaries and fighting for every little step of progress that I make. It's really hard for me to stand up to him due to his rages. His recycling attempts are 24-7 and I have been doing well in defending what I think is best for me. 

But then two days ago he came along with this idea: he says he needs sex and I am still his wife, because the papers say so.  He said if he cant get sex at home he get it else where. So I need to be prepared to hear comments like: " I saw your husband at the mall yesturday holding some girl's hand!". He told me our finances would take a cut because there would be movies, dinners, motels, flowers... . He said he's be putting himself at risk because only with me can he have safe sex. But if that is what I want him to do, then ok, he'll be forced into doing this.

My first reaction was fine, do what you want, just leave me alone.  Don't touch me - ever.

But then I thought of him giving some "girl" everything I never got. Jealousy hit like at train in high speed. Then this 2% that still wants him grew like fungus and I think it contaminated me... . It totally took over. Why in the world do I care what he does or gives to anybody else?

My FOG is in two situations:

(1) If I give into his demands

Fear: being used for a situation that only benefits him (we have very different views on sex) being weak knowing that I do not have enough strength to stand up to him, fear of getting recycled because as far as I see it, this 2% urge is my only weak spot - I've got everything else under control, fear of agreeing to a situation I hate

Obligation:  ... . you get the point... .

Guilt: I gave into a situation that I totally hate because I am weak

(2) If I don't give into his demands

Fear: him raging at me, of his constant attempts 24-7, him having fun with someone else while I sit at home alone, fear of some "girl" getting everything I never had, fear of loneliness hitting in BIG TIME while I see him taking advantage of what life has to offer

Obligation: I cant think of any

Guilt: By standing up for what I believe I will be giving him no other options

This story of his just threw me off my tracks.

Any ideas, besides the obvious one, which is leave ASAP?

[Monarch Butterfly]

My situation is the following: I want out DESPERATELY but can't right away. I'm looking for a job and have gone back to school (which he pays for to get more education). I have the same living arrangements as my uBPDh and will have for the next two years or so.

At least we aren`t sleeping in the same bed - he's sleeping in our sons room. He says the extra bedroom is too lonely. Anyway, I have been really good at maintaining my boundaries and fighting for every little step of progress that I make. It's really hard for me to stand up to him due to his rages. His recycling attempts are 24-7 and I have been doing well in defending what I think is best for me. 

But then two days ago he came along with this idea: he says he needs sex and I am still his wife, because the papers say so.  He said if he cant get sex at home he get it else where. So I need to be prepared to hear comments like: " I saw your husband at the mall yesturday holding some girl's hand!". He told me our finances would take a cut because there would be movies, dinners, motels, flowers... . He said he's be putting himself at risk because only with me can he have safe sex. But if that is what I want him to do, then ok, he'll be forced into doing this.

My first reaction was fine, do what you want, just leave me alone.  Don't touch me - ever.

But then I thought of him giving some "girl" everything I never got. Jealousy hit like at train in high speed. Then this 2% that still wants him grew like fungus and I think it contaminated me... . It totally took over. Why in the world do I care what he does or gives to anybody else?

My FOG is in two situations:

(1) If I give into his demands

Fear: being used for a situation that only benefits him (we have very different views on sex) being weak knowing that I do not have enough strength to stand up to him, fear of getting recycled because as far as I see it, this 2% urge is my only weak spot - I've got everything else under control, fear of agreeing to a situation I hate

Obligation:  ... . you get the point... .

Guilt: I gave into a situation that I totally hate because I am weak

(2) If I don't give into his demands

Fear: him raging at me, of his constant attempts 24-7, him having fun with someone else while I sit at home alone, fear of some "girl" getting everything I never had, fear of loneliness hitting in BIG TIME while I see him taking advantage of what life has to offer

Obligation: I cant think of any

Guilt: By standing up for what I believe I will be giving him no other options

This story of his just threw me off my tracks.

Any ideas, besides the obvious one, which is leave ASAP?

[heartandwhole]

Monarch,

I really commend you for your strength in detaching while still being married and living with your husband.  I know that is challenging, and I for one don't think I could handle it.  I think you are doing really well.  This blip of jealousy is very understandable, you are a human being and you love(d) this person! 

In my opinion, it's just a matter of some stinking thinking and boundaries.  It IS scary to think that other women will be getting everything that you aren't.  But you know where that is going.  The issues with your partner do not go away just because his focus is elsewhere for a while.  Without intense treatment, the pattern will most likely repeat with each woman.  If it doesn't, then it's probably because he hasn't gotten close enough to trigger abandonment/engulfment fears, so no one is getting what you aren't.

What are your values with regard to your sexual and emotional life?  Have you communicated your boundaries to him around this subject?

People do what they do, and there's not a thing we can do to control it.  What we can do is act on our values with the information that we have.  I hope you won't let yourself be manipulated into acting against what is right for you.

You have come far, Monarch, I hope you are proud of yourself. 

[Monarch Butterfly]

Heart and Whole,

    I have to live with him until I can find a way to pay for my bills. I really don't think I'm that strong, just no choices. So I take the one that I have... . stay until I can get out.

     I am determined NOT to get recycled but I think he has found a breach in my wall. Mixing up the cement right now... .  

   I have communicated my boundaries very loud an clear, but he doesn't listen. He doesn't honestly care. I wrote them down on paper and handed them to him in writing. I have to enforce them constantly, daily, 5x a day - and this is exhausting. He tires to hold my hand, kiss me, hug me... . and more. He says he wants no one else except me. Yeah right... . Why didn't he want me all these 17 years I do not know, and now to suddenly want me after I tell him I'm leaving.

I'm gone... . out the door baby (but still here physically). Bummer.

  I do realize that this new "girl" will get what I got in the end, but first she'll get the idealization phase. I don't think I can handle that. I suggested setting up a separate bank account for me and he laughed... . He asked me what I was going to buy with no money. He has a point. I really don't want to process the credit card bills and see whats on them. Flowers, presents, dinners, motels... .   :'(

Sometimes I wonder if he just said all those things to see my reaction (it worked - I let my guard down).

   Other times I think I'm too scared of standing up for my boundaries, after all, he is paying for my schooling. He pays my bills. I give him what he wants. Of course, what does that make me... .  What happens to that when he finds some 20yr old to prey on and worship. I read other peoples situations of how their SOwBPD found replacements fast and married them. I'm stuck here for 2 years at least... .    Yeah, I know, lots of what ifs... . But my first impression is that my schooling be cut off? I have to think this one through carefully. Maybe I could get in writing he will pick up my schooling no matter what.

  I think the best move is to be strong and do what I think is right (after I get this in writing of course). I have to make a list of things to do on his night out: make popcorn with the kids, watch a movie, learn swahilli... . something to get my mind of what he is doing.

I need to be faithful to me - not to him.

Thanks for the input!

[Perfidy]

Wow... monarch. We're strong because we have to be not because we want to be... I get it. You are aware of your choices. The one I would make isn't the first on your list. Keeping the peace and your sanity in that situation is commendable. A whole new set of boundaries as your marriage changes. Keeping yourself out of the FOG in that arrangement is going to take creativity. Being married... A piece of paper. It's only a piece of paper. Something that I learned a while ago... . Write down on a piece of paper a personal contract stating your boundaries... . What you are willing to do and what you are not willing to do. Make it as inclusive as you can. Be very specific and detailed. Write down what you expect of him in detail also. Include your feelings about other women and everything you mentioned in this post plus everything else that you can think of. Make it in the form of a contract and have him read it and go over it with him. Have him sign it and give him a copy of it. Get a notary to witness it. It's business. Let him know that you mean business.

I've used this approach and it helps. Something to think about.

[Monarch Butterfly]

Thanks Perfidy! I think that's a good idea of making a contract.

He´s in the middle of getting a masters and have agreed to filling for the separation in July when he´s done. I agreed because I don't want him to have an emotional melt down, drop out and then blame it on me. Since I have no where to go, the papers really don't matter too me, like you said. I've checked out of this marriage already. But he's making a huge deal of it.

He said he will not file for divorce , just separation, because he will not let me leave or leave me. I'm not sure what he meant by that. He hasn't been violent in the past, but of course, I have never left.

  But nothing can actually stop me from writing up a document now so that he really gets it. I have put things down in writing before, and they have helped, but this contact stuff is really getting too me, and he pushes the boundaries all the time, every time... . I can't even wash the dishes without a hug or kiss... . UGH. I guess I have to put that in writing too.

Thanks for your input! Helping bunches here!

[seeking balance]

Have you spoken to an attorney without his knowledge so you can get a real picture of what separation and divorce will look like?  You might have more options than you realize.

Peace,

SB

[Monarch Butterfly]

Seeking Balance,

  No I haven't looked into an attorney. He told me not to when all this blew up in our faces months ago, and for unknown reason I have "obeyed". Seems so obvious now that you posted. Why haven't I done this before... .    Gosh I feel so stupid... . I really need to check out my options and not just the options he is giving me.

THANK YOU SO MUCH!

[The Mrs]

I, too, have been caught in the FOG, myself.  For 25 years of marriage I was caught in the FOG and have only been gone from our home for 5 months.  This much I have learned, the only way to get out of the FOG is to take your time and work your way cautiously through it, just like when your driving your car through it.  You would be served well to visit with an attorney, to simply educate yourself about the process, your options, the laws where you live, etc.  Most attorneys will provide an initial consultation free of charge.  Are you seeing a counselor?  I have come to the point where I have 2 different views of my marriage--when meeting with my attorney I have to look at it as nothing more than a legal contract between 2 people.  I haven't decided if, or when, or how I might go about dissolving that contract.  When I meet with my counselor that is where I deal with all of the emotional baggage of this 25 year relationship and the devastation that BPD has brought to our family.  That is where I work on forgiveness, forgiveness of myself and of him and of letting go of the past hurt and anger and disappointment and frustration and moving forward.  That's how I've best begun to slowly crawl out of the FOG.

[Monarch Butterfly]

The Mrs,

   Very well put. I am seeing a T but have not yet seen an attorney. Will be looking into that. I like how you compared FOG to driving a car through real fog. Describes my situation well... .

[The Mrs]

Sadly, it describes so many of our situations... . sometimes the Fear, Obligation, and Guilt is thicker than others, sometimes we have patches of clear unstructured sailing, and sometimes it just feels like it is so thick and all consuming that we are never going to see our way through it.  For me, those are the times I know I need to rely on my resources... . whether it be reading and posting on this board, my trusted friends and family (they are few), my counselor, lighting some candles and taking a bath and thinking if I had a dime for every time I had to set a boundary, I'd be a very wealthy woman right now and I surely wouldn't be soaking here right now!  Stay determined, you are stronger than you realize.

P.s.  And please don't say you feel stupid anymore