The liar, the witch and the skeletons in the closet

[Depression = 72% of members]

How is it that you think you know someone, spend time in their lives, understand to an extent their condition but you have no idea who they really are?

So this morning I went for my CT Scan and my exBPDgf's cousin came with me. We are good friends and he is extremely disgusted at the events of recent weeks. Despite me initially asking him not to give me any updates, curiosity got the better of me since we had a long wait in the waiting room. In some ways it gave me validation, in other ways it gave me closure but it also opened a whole new world of questions that I don't have answers to and it gave me clarity in the sense that I never knew my exBPDgf.

Has anyone ever encountered a certain level of mirroring in their replacement? Apparently his name is similar to mine and he looks very much like me too. This opens the question of whether the space she asked for, she is keeping a replacement to remind her of me so she doesn't forget and thinks she can come wondering back in at a later date? Also, if I trigger her, does that speed up the process for him to trigger her? I'm trying to gauge how long it's going to be before I start hearing from her again.

When she broke things off the first time, she met him online but nothing happened apparently, she came back before it did. Her reasons for breaking it off were that I was "too good to her and the kids" and she didn't feel she deserved it. Insecurities got the better of her and she stepped away before she ruined it convinced I would walk. I was the one who chased to get her back and she did. However, she didn't stop contact with the replacement though she never went near him until she broke things off again for the 2nd time. The times she told me she was going to her friends or was sleeping all day, she was with him. She raged at the kids when they found out because they were not happy with her repeating old patterns and she made them promise that if they didn't say anything that she would come back. Again, I was the one who chased.

There were 2 key points to the final break. Firstly, my collapse pushed her over the edge after her friend had just died. Secondly the effort I put in for her christmas presents as it was something she really wanted but has always been used to getting nothing, thirdly I gave her money for a night out with her friends but really she was going to see replacement. Shame and guilt pushed her away in the end.

The text I got from her a few weeks ago was to say she needed to be on her own, she was going away on her own in a few weeks and could I go and check on the kids. She said she had already spoken to them and they understood why she needed to be on her own. What she actually told the kids was that she had another bf, that she was going away on her own to clear her head because she thought by the time she did that, she could get me back since I was non the wiser to what was going on. She wanted to be strong enough mentally for a relationship with me and that I couldn't see her in the state she was in. Personally, I cannot believe how selfish and twisted that thinking really is.

Now for the past. This pattern is nothing new and has been ongoing not for 5 years but for the past 18 years. She did the same thing in her long term relationship until her ex turned around and said no more. She left him when he got diagnosed with a brain tumour and that was enough for him to walk away for good. She talks about having indifference towards him and that she was the one who left but truth is she hated the fact he refused to take her back after doing it too many times. He is happily married again and my ex has nothing but hatred towards his wife because she feels she stole her ex from her.

Then there was her marriage. She did the same thing to him too but he also did the same to her. They were both as bad as each other. She often talked about how he wanted her back but she refused because he ran off with his ex girlfriend. She always commented on the fact that his gf looked like her (same as she is doing now) they both trigger each other and he is painted black and white on a constant basis. However, he would never go back to her and that too made her angry despite all the attempts she made. At the beginning of December, I was round at hers when she decided to call his gf and tell her all about him, her black image of him. It led to them splitting up but instead of coming back to my ex, he moved onto another woman immediately.

So that leaves all the ones she conveniently forgot about, the ones who never existed in her eyes. She did the very same thing to them as she has done to me and they found out about it, confronted her, things turned nasty and they refused to go anywhere near her again. She tried to recycle but they all turned their back on her so for that reason, none of them existed. It is apparently easier for her to pretend they never existed rather than go through the motions torturing herself.

So that just leaves current replacement and me with her eyes fixed on a recycle attempt really soon. Her eldest kids have fallen out with her, her eldest is even moving out next month for a job a few hundred miles away. Her daughter is really upset and her family are on at her for being stupid. They believe she is suffering from PTSD from being in an abusive relationship but cousin knows better because family aren't told half the things that have gone on. They still firmly believe I hold the key to her happiness but I know very different. Cousin even put the date of the major breakdown she is about to have as 10th Feb and then it's all downhill for replacement from there. Cracks are already showing big time.

So what's left for me? She doesn't know that I know about replacement, cousin didn't tell her because I did say it wasn't his place and although family know they haven't told her either because they are holding out for a reconciliation. I am very different to the others because I haven't confronted her, I haven't shown any anger towards her, I haven't been painted black and she still thinks I'm hooked right now. She is going to get the shock of her life when she comes bouncing back and finds the avenue is closed with nobody home.

I think what angers me the most is that she has already decided her course of action without taking into account how anyone else is feeling. That her behaviour is completely acceptable and that she will be welcomed back with open arms. She also believes I'm taking her away in May but I cancelled that the other day. It was a tough decision because I didn't want her youngest daughter to miss out and had she been taking time out, I would have paid the rest off so they could still go, with or without me. However, given the lies and deceit, I'm not going to be held accountable for her actions so she can be the one to explain to her daughter and her family why they can't go now.

My mother suggested that I contact replacement about the trip and hand the responsibility over to him. She believes it will let him know I exist, that he is being taken for a ride and throw a spanner in the works there. I'm not going to do that because it's sinking down to her level then and it's time I need to heal.

At least I know that things spiraled out of control because I was good and not because I did anything wrong. In that I have some closure but it doesn't make things any easier. Unlike exBPDw, at least I was also aware when my rescuer and codependency streak started to kick in this time around so I do see that as progress in terms of where I am at with healing but also an indicator that there is still work to be done.

[Murbay]

How is it that you think you know someone, spend time in their lives, understand to an extent their condition but you have no idea who they really are?

So this morning I went for my CT Scan and my exBPDgf's cousin came with me. We are good friends and he is extremely disgusted at the events of recent weeks. Despite me initially asking him not to give me any updates, curiosity got the better of me since we had a long wait in the waiting room. In some ways it gave me validation, in other ways it gave me closure but it also opened a whole new world of questions that I don't have answers to and it gave me clarity in the sense that I never knew my exBPDgf.

Has anyone ever encountered a certain level of mirroring in their replacement? Apparently his name is similar to mine and he looks very much like me too. This opens the question of whether the space she asked for, she is keeping a replacement to remind her of me so she doesn't forget and thinks she can come wondering back in at a later date? Also, if I trigger her, does that speed up the process for him to trigger her? I'm trying to gauge how long it's going to be before I start hearing from her again.

When she broke things off the first time, she met him online but nothing happened apparently, she came back before it did. Her reasons for breaking it off were that I was "too good to her and the kids" and she didn't feel she deserved it. Insecurities got the better of her and she stepped away before she ruined it convinced I would walk. I was the one who chased to get her back and she did. However, she didn't stop contact with the replacement though she never went near him until she broke things off again for the 2nd time. The times she told me she was going to her friends or was sleeping all day, she was with him. She raged at the kids when they found out because they were not happy with her repeating old patterns and she made them promise that if they didn't say anything that she would come back. Again, I was the one who chased.

There were 2 key points to the final break. Firstly, my collapse pushed her over the edge after her friend had just died. Secondly the effort I put in for her christmas presents as it was something she really wanted but has always been used to getting nothing, thirdly I gave her money for a night out with her friends but really she was going to see replacement. Shame and guilt pushed her away in the end.

The text I got from her a few weeks ago was to say she needed to be on her own, she was going away on her own in a few weeks and could I go and check on the kids. She said she had already spoken to them and they understood why she needed to be on her own. What she actually told the kids was that she had another bf, that she was going away on her own to clear her head because she thought by the time she did that, she could get me back since I was non the wiser to what was going on. She wanted to be strong enough mentally for a relationship with me and that I couldn't see her in the state she was in. Personally, I cannot believe how selfish and twisted that thinking really is.

Now for the past. This pattern is nothing new and has been ongoing not for 5 years but for the past 18 years. She did the same thing in her long term relationship until her ex turned around and said no more. She left him when he got diagnosed with a brain tumour and that was enough for him to walk away for good. She talks about having indifference towards him and that she was the one who left but truth is she hated the fact he refused to take her back after doing it too many times. He is happily married again and my ex has nothing but hatred towards his wife because she feels she stole her ex from her.

Then there was her marriage. She did the same thing to him too but he also did the same to her. They were both as bad as each other. She often talked about how he wanted her back but she refused because he ran off with his ex girlfriend. She always commented on the fact that his gf looked like her (same as she is doing now) they both trigger each other and he is painted black and white on a constant basis. However, he would never go back to her and that too made her angry despite all the attempts she made. At the beginning of December, I was round at hers when she decided to call his gf and tell her all about him, her black image of him. It led to them splitting up but instead of coming back to my ex, he moved onto another woman immediately.

So that leaves all the ones she conveniently forgot about, the ones who never existed in her eyes. She did the very same thing to them as she has done to me and they found out about it, confronted her, things turned nasty and they refused to go anywhere near her again. She tried to recycle but they all turned their back on her so for that reason, none of them existed. It is apparently easier for her to pretend they never existed rather than go through the motions torturing herself.

So that just leaves current replacement and me with her eyes fixed on a recycle attempt really soon. Her eldest kids have fallen out with her, her eldest is even moving out next month for a job a few hundred miles away. Her daughter is really upset and her family are on at her for being stupid. They believe she is suffering from PTSD from being in an abusive relationship but cousin knows better because family aren't told half the things that have gone on. They still firmly believe I hold the key to her happiness but I know very different. Cousin even put the date of the major breakdown she is about to have as 10th Feb and then it's all downhill for replacement from there. Cracks are already showing big time.

So what's left for me? She doesn't know that I know about replacement, cousin didn't tell her because I did say it wasn't his place and although family know they haven't told her either because they are holding out for a reconciliation. I am very different to the others because I haven't confronted her, I haven't shown any anger towards her, I haven't been painted black and she still thinks I'm hooked right now. She is going to get the shock of her life when she comes bouncing back and finds the avenue is closed with nobody home.

I think what angers me the most is that she has already decided her course of action without taking into account how anyone else is feeling. That her behaviour is completely acceptable and that she will be welcomed back with open arms. She also believes I'm taking her away in May but I cancelled that the other day. It was a tough decision because I didn't want her youngest daughter to miss out and had she been taking time out, I would have paid the rest off so they could still go, with or without me. However, given the lies and deceit, I'm not going to be held accountable for her actions so she can be the one to explain to her daughter and her family why they can't go now.

My mother suggested that I contact replacement about the trip and hand the responsibility over to him. She believes it will let him know I exist, that he is being taken for a ride and throw a spanner in the works there. I'm not going to do that because it's sinking down to her level then and it's time I need to heal.

At least I know that things spiraled out of control because I was good and not because I did anything wrong. In that I have some closure but it doesn't make things any easier. Unlike exBPDw, at least I was also aware when my rescuer and codependency streak started to kick in this time around so I do see that as progress in terms of where I am at with healing but also an indicator that there is still work to be done.

[Learning_curve74]

Wow Murbay! A lot of clarity in your post, no denial, and a lot of awareness of both her and about yourself! It sounds like you very much do understand who she is.

I think you are making sine very good adult choices abd looking out for your own well being. Good for you! 

[ShadowDancer]

Murbay, Curiously and respectfully may I ask how old this woman presently is, how many and ages of her children and how many different fathers?

[seeking balance]

I think what angers me the most is that she has already decided her course of action without taking into account how anyone else is feeling.

Her behavior is directly related to her emotional state and her well being... . so, your responsibility is to take care of your emotional state.

Sometimes finding out the entire truth gives us the strength to really let go and sometimes it fuels the anger that can keep us attached.

Knowing the facts of the disorder, you certainly have had a more evidence to the behaviors that were not in your best interest.  I wouldn't stir the pot, confront the new boyfriend or even want to know anything else at this point... . what are you going to do?

[winston72]

"At least I know that things spiraled out of control because I was good and not because I did anything wrong."

I think it is fair to say that she spiraled out of control of her own accord and that it was not due to your being good or bad.  In reading your post, I am reminded of how I put myself in the center of the actions of my ex; I sub-consciously felt responsible for her actions.  I thought I was "taking responsibility for my behavior" but it so quickly migrated to feeling that her behavior was the result of mine, or who I was.  That is not true in a relationship with a disordered person, and it is not true in a healthy relationship. 

Your post is incredibly thoughtful.  It is focused on figuring her out.  I have spent the last two years trying to figure out my ex.  I just went through a couple of weeks of email correspondence with her to learn some facts about her deceptions of me.  On the whole, it was helpful.  Learning more of the truth helped me considerably to see her as a whole person who rather than the idealized one in my mind.  So, I think knowing a more complete version of our stories, the facts, can be very helpful.  It was for me.  Now the key step for me is to focus on myself and determine my future in light of those facts.

Pardon me if I am treading on familiar turf for you.  I have not read all of your prior posts.  As is common, I am posting to myself as I react to your post!  Sounds like your awareness of your rescuer tendencies has helped guide you onto a healthy path.

Looking forward to hearing how this progresses for you.

[Perfidy]

Murbay, I can relate to much of what you wrote here. PwBPD have major identity problems. To answer your first question, it's impossible to know a person who has no solid identity.

[Moonie75]

Is her cousin a track proven psychic, or does she know something not mentioned in your post?

What makes your ex's cousin so sure Feb 10th is a significant date? And that things will rapidly go down hill from there?

Also, how do you feel about that? What did this prediction do for you? (You mentioned you were wanting to gauge how long till you heard from her again)

[Murbay]

I just realised the length of the post and I apologise, there was just been so much to process from today.

Learning_curve74, it's very difficult when the information you receive comes from a third party source in the form of gossip. Little bits I pieced together before but not to the detailed extent. It would be things like when she told me she had been single and on her own for 5 years but then talk about one bf turning up at her hotel, another pouring a drink over her, another slashing her arms and so forth. Obviously these could have been prior to her marriage but when you factor in her youngest daughters age against some of the things she said, the timeline overlaps her marriage and a lot of time after.

Shadowdancer, she will be 38 next month, 3 kids - 19, 18, and 10. Eldest 2 to one father, youngest to another. She did want more kids but ex told her to get sterilised.

SB - I'm not a confrontational person. Besides, replacement is going to find out soon enough. She walked into that relationship dysregulated and if she fools herself that relationships don't exist after 6 months it's not going to be long before he finds out, especially if she is already planning a recycle. I'm just glad cousin hasn't said anything to her, because it's not his place to and he is a really decent guy, don't want him getting involved in something that isn't his issue.

Winston, I would say that is down to the aspergers and part of the reason the post was so long. I tend to separate the facts from the emotions, work through the emotions then tie them to the facts. It's how I'm able to control not going into overload. As for rescuer tendencies, that is something I identified from my marriage and have done a lot of work with my T around this to identify when I start to slide and the reasons why. In this instance, I believe when she told me she was diagnosed BPD after the first breakup is when I started to focus more on the illness and what I could do to help her rather than what I could do to help myself.

Where most people step away from danger, I run towards it. With T, I have already identified my own core events which make me do that and the reasons why but it's going to take some time. Also, in my marriage, I was accused of not doing much to help, despite the fact I did pretty much everything. In this relationship I think I overcompensated because of my own insecurities even though I knew them to be completely wrong. So in terms of being good, I wasn't perfect but I did all the right things and for the right reasons. That's not to say I'm not jointly responsible for what happened, the good and the bad is her interpretation is why things happened. To me, it's a little more complex because we all play our part but I wouldn't take responsibility for the things I hadn't done.

Moonie, the 10th is her best friends funeral and he knows this is going to trigger her in a very big way. Cracks are already appearing now and her major shutdown came on the day she found out about the death. Her default for anyone when she is upset is to push everybody away, even in idealisation phase with me, bad news meant she disappeared. This is by far the biggest issue she has had to deal with since last year. On top of which valentines day is  4 days after and then her birthday is 5 days after that. These are all trigger times for her because anybody doing anything good for her is a trigger, doesn't matter who they are. Her cousin also knows her well enough to know when to keep away, he checks in on her a lot and she's not in a good place right now and only getting worse. She doesn't put the mask on for him so he sees the raw vortex waiting to explode. As for what the prediction did for me I would say nothing. Rather than dwell on when it's coming, I will just cross that bridge when it comes.

My exBPDw, created chaos after our divorce. She exploded in a very big way and it wasn't a pleasant sight. In the middle of it all, my T asked me how I was going to deal with her when she contacts me in 6 months. I looked at him like he was the crazy one because nobody goes to the lengths my exBPDw did only to contact someone a few months later like nothing happened (didn't know about BPD at that time) My T was wrong in one sense, she didn't contact me after 6 months, she has contacted me every few weeks without fail for the past year. I have remained NC and she is still doing it. I will get an email off her this weekend, Monday at the latest and can set my watch by it.

It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when and right now I feel very indifferent because I know the person contacting me isn't someone I knew or someone who acted out and has reappeared, it is someone I never knew at all, a stranger and I will most likely deal with it the same way I deal with a stranger calling about a PPI claim