He wants to go to my therapy appt. with me... BUT

[lauren50]

I posted this on the Leaving board, since I think that's currently what's going on (he wants to leave me and I'm really questioning my daughter and unborn baby's safety with his escalating behavior). Anyways, thought I'd run this by you guys. I'm new to therapy myself and I'd like to think T for my uBPDh would be helpful and maybe even make it possible to stay, but idk if I can let him come to my appt... .

This weekend my BPDh was supposed to go to drill (military) but after yelling at me before he left, I guess he was feeling out of control on the way out of town. He turned around halfway and came home, ran through the list of all my shortcomings, and then asked if he could go with me to my therapy appointment this week.

Now, I thought this is what I had wanted, but the first thing that came to mind is that he wants to go and find out what I've talked to the T about. He routinely "tests me" by asking me a question, remembering my answer (correctly or not) and then later asks the question again; if I say something different (even if it's the same answer put into different words), I'm a liar. Well, he asked me if I talked about any of my exes to my T, and I told him that I did but only about the one that was a source of fighting in my marriage. I have this feeling he just wants to go and check out my "story".

What he said is that he wants to go so I can figure out all the things I do that make him feel the way he does. And he also wants to figure out why he wants to leave me but can't seem to.

I'd rather him not go to my therapist with me but I know he's going to be mad about it. Preparing myself for the fight... .

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[IsItHerOrIsItMe]

Whether or not you're planning on leaving him I think it's a good idea for him to go with you.

Unless you've got a real whacko for a T he's not going to answer your h's questions about what you've discussed.

There's a lot of discussion on this site on how to get our SO's into T.  Not too many of us solve it by being asked... .

[an0ught]

Hi lauren50,

This weekend my BPDh was supposed to go to drill (military) but after yelling at me before he left, I guess he was feeling out of control on the way out of town. He turned around halfway and came home, ran through the list of all my shortcomings, and then asked if he could go with me to my therapy appointment this week.

Ok, he did not want to go to the drill. Dysregulated and yelled. Then did not manage to go to the drill but turned around.

Now he is asking to come to your T.

Could be that the fact that he did not manage to even go to the drill brought home the fact that he got a problem? He may not want to go with you to see you and your T but is seeking a route to get a T himself without admitting to it. I'm speculating here of course. He could also believe if just the T gets his side of the story the world would become rosy again. That is as well speculation.

How should you handle it? Of course you are able to say no - it is your T. Saying yes may have some upside (could be a step towards therapy for him) but could also lead to him misbehaving more than usual. If you say yes I would pre-warn the T so appropriate options can be prepared. I would also swallow a double dose of anti-JADE and tell the T that you are not going to argue silly facts. In any case the session would not be about you but about him.

Also mentally prepare that he is chickening out. He may need multiple times validation of his fear to come along. I think while you are afraid what is going to happen he will be mortified.

[SleepsOnSofa]

Wow, I'm no expert, but my reaction to this was the exact opposite of the previous posters. What happens at your T sessions is YOURS, not his. If he can't respect THAT boundary - one that is core of therapist-patient confidentiality - it's hard to imagine him respecting any others. I suppose that if you and your T agreed in advance that there might be benefit to you and your therapy in having him come along some time, that the two of you could invite him. But I would expect that your T would refuse to admit him to the session if he accompanied you uninvited and essentially coercing you into allowing him to attend. In fact, if your T didn't refuse him, I'd be seriously considering finding a new therapist.

That's not to say that he should be discouraged from seeking his own T. On the contrary - you two probably should look for one for him and another for the both of you (yours, mine, and ours!). But I would caution you against allowing your T to become his T also, or your couples T, based on an experience I had many years ago as my first marriage was unraveling. After months of avoiding it, my then-wife finally agreed to see a couples therapist. We saw the T a few times together, then the T asked to see us separately for a few sessions (my wife at the time most likely had some pretty serious depression issues that needed individual attention). After one session alone with the T, my then-wife decided that the T and I were ganging up on her, and refused to go.

The point is, you need your T to be YOUR T, and he needs to find a T that is his. If you can't speak freely with your T because your husband has bulled his way into the session, there's really no point in your even going. Your therapist is responsible for helping YOU deal with your own challenges, without becoming a pawn in your husband's head games against you.

[Mase11]

There would be no chance I'd invite my dBPDw to my T sessions. It wouldn't do much good for anyone in this situation. I've gone even further and won't tell her who she is and where she works. My wife hasn't asked either.

If the two of you want to get help together, which is a great idea, then you'll have to find a new T. I don't think it's fair to your T to be in that situation as your husband will assume that you two are ganging up on him.

After writing this I read SleepsOnSofa's post. I agree with you completely.

[lauren50]

Thanks everyone. Sometimes it's hard to see through the FOG! I decided to tell him that I was glad he wanted to go to therapy. I also told him what my therapist told me, "A marriage is only as healthy as the two people in it." She asked me to think of some ways to take care of myself in a healthy way and I believe going to therapy is one of those things. I told him we can find him a T and work towards finding a marriage counseler.

Of course, I'm a coward and couldn't tell him any of this to his face. If I had, he'd probably say "whatever" and proceed to rage... and I can't handle the stress these days (I'm pregnant). So, I texted all that to him (he's at work). Hope it goes well... . and by well, I mean, I hope he really does start seeing a T on his own.

[SleepsOnSofa]

Not wanting to drive headlong into a volcano doesn't make you a coward. It makes you a survivor. If you've found that texting him gives him a chance to digest what you need to say before having to respond, and helps him not fall into a knee-jerk contradiction reaction, then you did the right thing. Heck, even you've never tried it before, but you know that telling him to his face will provoke a contradiction rage, then trying something new is worth a shot.

I hope it goes well for you. Let us know, when you can.

[lauren50]

Well I guess my gut instinct was right... . he texted me back that I don't want him to see the same dr cause I'm afraid she'll say something about what I already talked about, something I cant talk to him about, and probably something I told him I was over. I'm never going to be honest with him and nothing's ever going to change.

I asked him if that was the only reason he wanted to go, to find out what I talked about, and he said no, that he wanted to fix us and that all his problems stem from me and our relationship so marriage counseling makes sense. (Except this was my T appt, not marriage counseling) He figured I'd back out and is guilt tripping me about what if he had taken off time from work yesterday? And he was hoping he could figure out why he felt the way he did despite all the things I've done. He thought this may help but he knew I didn't want him to go with me. I "obviously don't want him in" and now he asks, "why are you with me?"

Then last night at home, we didn't talk about anything other than our daughter and TV. My T appt is today so I look forward to that... .

[SleepsOnSofa]

Again, your therapist is YOUR therapist, not his, and not yours as a couple. Couples counseling is a different thing, and should almost certainly be a different person. But him insisting on going to YOUR therapy session would be like him insisting on attending YOUR visit to the gynecologist. He has no business there, where the purpose is to take care of your health needs; he shouldn't be allowed to bull his way in, to tell your therapist what's "really" wrong with you.

Stay strong on this one. This is a boundary you can not allow to fall.

[an0ught]

For clarity of the discussion be worth differentiating between

 - talking with the T

 - participating in your session

 - having a common session

1) It is clear that there is temptation of the pwBPD to triangulate and use the T. But then any T worth the salt will have experience with boundaries and have a professional (there are explicit guidelines on conflict of interest) as well as commercial interest to support their primary client first and foremost. This is in some sense similar to an attorney who talks to the opposite party. It is also worth remembering that a many members here often request being able to give input to the T of the pwBPD and if it is done in a respectful and limited manner it may be a positive.

2) Sitting in on another persons session - not going to work. Not going to be allowed by a T worth anything.

3) Common session - raises the couple counseling problems. If it is done in the couple counseling sense it is going to blow up. If it is done to validate the pwBPD (to recommend e.g. later therapy, maybe with another T) to build an initial relationship it will be hard on the non.

[SleepsOnSofa]

This is just a thought, and it might not be a good one, but I'll throw it out there.

What if you adopted a non-committal attitude toward his sitting in, and let the T be responsible for his not being allowed to come? ("I asked my therapist if it would be okay for you to come, hon, but she told me that she can't let do that without violating professional ethics and putting her license in jeopardy." Of course, don't do this without first discussing the issue with your T and getting her support. (Why do I assume that T's are usually women? I don't mean to be sexist, it just seems more natural to me to refer to a hypothetical therapist as female. Interesting... . ) Heck, if your husband keeps busting your chops over this, maybe she could talk to him on the phone to "get his input" and to explain why he can't take part in YOUR sessions.

I don't want to put your T in the middle of it, but I definitely do think that the issue touches on professional ethics and patient-therapist confidence in ways that tie her hands as much as yours.