differences between pwNPD and those with pwBPD?

[barbwire911]

Just wondering what the differences are between a pwBPD and a pwNPD?  Mine appears to have BPD with NP mixed but I heard the main difference is that those with NPD can contain their emotions better whereas those with BPD act out more and have extremes in emotions.  I know there are many overlaps but what distinguishes the two?

My xbwBPD and NP came back and forth between me and had extreme emotions related to such things that most people would not react that way.  And no matter what you told him, he did not believe you and always blamed me for everything.  He was also very unpredictable in moods but functioned normally at work for the most part but that was likely because he was able to take stuff out on me through yelling, after work.  But he also has NPD in that he thinks he is smarter than he is and a "superstar" at work, but he lies and lies about anything and everything and has certain delusions and paranoia also.  They seem so close (both disorders) but any differences to know about would be appreciated.  Thanks

[Surnia]

Hi barbwire911

here is a quotation from an article on the board.

And 47% of men and 32% of women are comorbid BPD/NPD.

I saw this description from Jeff Ball, Ph.D. that I thought it was pretty straight forward. Narcissistic Personality Disorder describes persons with an exaggerated sense of self-importance or uniqueness, and a preoccupation with receiving attention. Narcissists will often overstate their own achievements and talents, or focus upon the special nature of their problems. In essence, the narcissist's fragile self-esteem is revealed by their preoccupation with how others regard them. Features of a narcissistic personality include a preoccupation with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love. There is also a need for constant attention and admiration, and either a cool indifference or feelings of rage, inferiority, shame, humiliation, or emptiness in response to criticism, indifference of others, or defeat.  ~ Jeff Ball, Ph.D..

How to Distinguish NPD from Borderline Personality Disorder

pwNPD traits differ from pwBPD traits in that pwNPD traits have a relatively stable self-image, and lack self-destructiveness, impulsivity, and abandonment fears.

Otto Kernberg MD (Cornell) differentiates between the person with NPD and those with borderline personality disorder (BPD) on the basis of:

(1) their relatively good social functioning,

(2) their better impulse control, and

(3) their "pseudosublimatory" potential, namely, the capacity for active, consistent work in some areas which permits them partially to fulfill their ambitions of greatness and of obtaining admiration from others.  Highly intelligent patients with this personality structure may appear as quite creative in their fields:  narcissistic personalities can often be found as leaders in industrial organizations or academic institutions; they may also be outstanding performers in some artistic domain.  Careful observation, however, of their productivity over a long period of time will give evidence of superficiality and flightiness in their work, of a lack of depth which eventually reveals the emptiness behind the glitter.  Quite frequently these are the "promising" geniuses who then surprise other people by the banality of their development.  They also are able to exert self-control in anxiety-producing situations, which may at first appear as good anxiety tolerance; however, analytic exploration shows that their anxiety tolerance is obtained at the cost of increasing their narcissistic fantasies and of withdrawing into "splendid isolation." This tolerance of anxiety does not reflect an authentic capacity for coming to terms with a disturbing reality.

Does this helps?

[barbwire911]

Thanks so much.  It does somewhat but if pwBPD have fears of abandonment and pwNPD do not, then how is the pwBPD always ends up running away?  Mine used to always tell me things like "I know you will leave, etc." out of the blue but then he ended up leaving me and so suddenly stating he "knew in his head" I wanted to marry him.  He comes back and forth to me but now I am not taking him back.  It appears he has moved onto some girl more than 10 years younger than him... . this guy has constant women. But yet he leaves them all and he does recycle. So is that more pwBPD then you think?

[seeking balance]

Thanks so much.  It does somewhat but if pwBPD have fears of abandonment and pwNPD do not, then how is the pwBPD always ends up running away?  Mine used to always tell me things like "I know you will leave, etc." out of the blue but then he ended up leaving me and so suddenly stating he "knew in his head" I wanted to marry him.  He comes back and forth to me but now I am not taking him back.  It appears he has moved onto some girl more than 10 years younger than him... . this guy has constant women. But yet he leaves them all and he does recycle. So is that more pwBPD then you think?

Even NPD may have abandonment issues - to be honest, most of us on these boards have abandonment issues - it is not the same level as BPD, but it is there and it can cause relationship problems.

member 2010 once said it this way (paraphrasing here)

NPD validates  sense of self by having others mirror him/her

BPD validates unstable sense of self by mirroring others.

Neither has a healthy, stable sense of self.

[Surnia]

Could be comorbity in play, reading your description about leaving / marry me.

In the end I think it doesn't matter so much. Like SB said, "neither has a healthy stable sense of self."

And the most important thing is what you want for your life, what kind of relationship.

You are out now, how are you doing?

[barbwire911]

I am doing not bad although broke NC today and wrote a closure letter and sent it as I felt there was one really wrong thing I had done (threatened to tell my exBPD ex spouse about the fact he slept with her 17 year old cousin under their former roof (they just separated a few months ago and we were friends prior before engaging in the shortest relationship with so many "leaving/marrying/just friends" elements).  He had told me that in confidence and I threatened to use it against him last week in our last argument before I went NC so I felt that was a dirty card I played and told him I would not do that and apologized.  I know he loved silent treatment so do not expect anything back at all which is fine. I am a huge communicator and believe there are many angles to things whereas he totally saw the black and white all the time.  LOL... weird as at our work his position is Analyst. I actually think it is better as I am better off without the constant drama, up and down emotions and chaos in my life.  It was so abnormal and now even though only a week it is so nice to have stability and calm. Here is my letter:

X= my exbfwBPD ex wife

Y= my exbfwBPD ex wife cousin

Z= my ex husband

B= supervisor at work of me and exbfwBPD

C= 16 year old dog walker my exbfwBPD is now with according to his ex wife

A= my exbfwBPD

(yeah... . messy right?)

"Just for your own reassurance and to apologize, I have no intention of ever telling X about Y and the whole preggers fiasco you confided in me. I will take it to my grave amongst other confidences from u and others. As I always told u when we were friends, it is not my mistake or story to tell and you told me in confidence and it was a dirty move I used on u to say I may tell X. That is not in my nature however with X yelling at me on the phone I was a "dirty slutty whore" upset me. I also told u stuff about my life and family in confidence when we were friends and I hope u would keep those to yourself too.

And when Z heard X through the phone he went crazy after being polite for so long and enduring your clothing thrown on his lawn by X amongst her other past tirades when she contacted him needlessly to rant about u. At some point, one man can only take so much. I did not know he sent her that message but he said enough was enough with her freaking out as she chose on whoever and whenever. I felt bad when u told me about the message so that was the only reason I called u twice at work was to see how I could help defuse the issue. You know that and I could care less about harrassing you. Personally I wish X would go away and I hope me or Z never hear from her again. She is blocked by us on our FB accounts and even after she said she would block Z and call "law enforcement" (?) She still did not block him and went on so we blocked her ourselves.

And then for X to tell Z u used me all along and possibly cheated on me when we were supposedly a couple was shocking for me and mean. Now given your behaviour to me and how up and down things were plus lack of communication I assume what she is saying came from your statements to her and are the truth. You know I never harrassed you but I just want this to be all over and despite X pushing Z and I to the limit here with all the previous months of craziness (whether some of it truth or not) I just want to reassure u I am not stating any of that Y thing to anyone.

And just FYI. One thing B said to me was "you and A were very discreet about your relationship and I assumed u were a couple as I saw you always together as I never heard anything and nor did any of us. " He actually said he wishes other couples were that normal functioning and professional and discreet at work until this whole thing happened which he suggested we leave work out on our FB stuff, etc as it is personal and he has more important things to do and if we have issues we be adults and resolve them through talking or EAP or whatever. I fully agree.

Anyways the point is I hope this drama is done and we all just move on whether you with X or C or one of the other women X has alluded to. The drama alone is too much and I am not used to all this. I told you we are not good together due to the drama and lack of communication, different lifestyles, what I need is not you and vice versa, etc. But I hope we can just shut the door on this and if we see each other by chance at work, be civil and not feel hostile from all this.

Again, I apologize for threatening to tell X about Y and you had some low blows too for me (from both u and X yet it was X that continually harrassed Z until he cracked) which hurt me. I never knew your intention, as X put in her email to me, was to use me all along and that did hurt but I am getting better and learning not to trust and help people as much anymore and be as giving or gullible so maybe it was a good lesson learned.

What X said to Z was not nice either but I guess the truth hurts sometimes and when you think u thought u had a friend and it was never real to begin with, has stung me as I value my friends highly. But I only try to remember the fun times with you and not all the bad as I do want to believe there was even a small percent that our friendship was real and all the cruelness and callousness we have all exhibited to each other is so shameful.

Anyways I just wanted to put my part to bed with my apology as I felt that Y thing was not right of me. I promise no one will ever know your secret no matter what and I needed to apologize to get closure of this so I feel better doing the right thing.

And unless you have anything you feel you need to say, then no need to respond. I just wanted to right the wrong I did with the Y thing as that was not right.

But with you and me it gets too difficult as X gets in there and I never know if she is the normal one and truthful or you are. And I am not used to the drama so I do not know what to believe. She sounds normal and then she also lashes out. I agree with her on some things though and I feel bad she is hurting overall.

But I think life is better if we just stay apart and at work just be decent if we have to ever work on anything. It is sad but there is just too much drama when we are friends and each day I cherish the normalacy and stability and simplicity my life has returned to despite moments I have where I sometimes miss the good times we had as buddies. I feel good now as have spoken my feelings as you know I believe in communication. Again no need to respond in any fashion at all but for me closure to an ending is important and for me, that involves telling you where I stand and righting any mistakes. On that note, wish u well with everything and hope stability and calm come to your life soon too."