Why do people react so differently?

[coraliesolange]

I was thinking about how I feel about my queen/witch mother and how my siblings have reacted so differently.  We grew up in the same household, we suffered and witnessed the same abuses, yet two of us are breaking off contact and two are completely enmeshed with her.  I don't understand how those two, as full grown adults, can let her do this to them.  I don't understand how they can't see that there's a healthier life for them. 

There's this board for people who for the most part are trying to move away and more on.  Then there are a bunch of boards for people who want to keep on keepin on.  What gives?  How did a bunch of people who went through such similar things end up in such different places?

It must be nature, right?  If we all had the same "nurture" then there must be something in our nature that separates us. 

[coraliesolange]

Another curiousity--I wonder what the Meyers Briggs personality split would be if we compared the leavers and the stayers.  I'm INTJ.

[Sitara]

I'm sure your question is probably one that psychologists ponder.

My theory is that we are all born as different people. So we all start off with a different base to build upon.

But even growing up in the same household two people are going to have different experiences. Especially around a BPD mother who has a favorite child (i.e. golden and black sheep). The same mother is going to associate to each of her kids in different ways.

I was mostly the golden child growing up and my sister was the black sheep. She was treated like a failure, constantly yelled at, and pretty consistently grounded, yet she was the child that in adulthood clung to our mother. Logically it would seem that of the two of us, wouldn't she be more likely to break away? I did my mother's bidding so I rarely got yelled at (in comparison). But I tired of being her puppet and broke away when she couldn't accept me for me.

We all have different breaking points and different things that matter more to us. I think part of why my sister has hung on is because as I became more distant my mom chose her as the new favorite, and after a lifetime of feeling like my mom didn't want her, I'd imagine that she might feel like my mother has finally accepted her and that she has finally achieved the long-desired role of "favorite". My mom hasn't pushed her to her breaking point (yet, or maybe never). My breaking point was when I tired of taking all the blame and responsibility for everything that was going wrong. I have always been an independent person, so I fought pretty hard against my mom as I aged to be allowed my own opinions and make my own choices.

As for the difference with people on the two boards, my very unscientific observation of the Coping board is that it seems people here have pwBPD who are unwilling to seek treatment or are not taking treatment seriously. Some on the Healing board do. And some on the Healing board have better success with things like boundaries, whereas like in my personal case, I put up a boundary with my mom and she just stopped talking to me. So it's hard to try to continue working on a relationship where there is none.  And some on the Healing board seem to be unwilling to break away from family - because as I said earlier, that's one of those things that matter more to them. I don't prioritize blood family because I've been cut off from nearly every one, so I put more importance on friends who act the way family should.

Every person's life is a completely unique experience, so it's really hard to pinpoint an answer to a question like why do some people stay and some people go. I think it's probably just a too complicated of an answer.

[isshebpd]

I've wondered about how things like gender and birth order influence reactions. Older children might be willing to take abuse instead of younger siblings, for instance. There's a lot less written about/by sons of BPD/NPD parents, or at least it seems like that. Maybe boys are more likely to be the golden child of borderline moms due to cultural reasons.

I've seriously considering casually taking some Psych courses. I wish I'd taken some when I did my degree twenty years ago.

[coraliesolange]

You both have good ideas.  I guess it's true that although my siblings and I were in the same home we were treated differently.  And birth order may be partially to blame.  I was babysitting a 2 year old an an infant when I was 8.  I kind of went into adolescence thinking I was their protector and if I hadn't felt responsible for their safety, maybe my adolescence wouldn't have been so ugly and violent and maybe I'd be stuck too.  The youngest (I'm almost old enough to be his mother) kind of skated by by smiling at the right times while she codependented the life out of the middle two and he tried his best to avoid attention.  I did a lot of the mother stuff for him until he was 8 and I moved out of state so maybe he missed a little during his baby years and wasn't as easily able to tolerate it when he got older.  Birth order cold work different in other situations but could definitely be a big factor.

As for the difference between people more respectful of boundaries and people taking treatment seriously, that could be a big part of it too.  A lot of people in the Coping and Healing Board talk about their undiagnosed person because that person hasn't even sought treatment.  And Sitara also mentioned being independent.  I'm also very independent. 

I also wonder if there's a split between BPD types.  Are people less likely to tolerate a certain type, for example a person with strong witch tendencies, or a queen? (And those two types may be less likely to seek treatment I believe?)  I personally have no experience with a waif or hermit so I can't help but wonder if my reaction would have been different under those circumstances.

[coraliesolange]

WOW I'm having a major revelation right now.  There were 4 or 5 years  where I experienced constant witch behavior.  But if I was the oldest child and I kept intervening every time she did something inappropriate to one of my siblings, maybe I was the only one who was getting the witch... . maybe they were getting the queen the whole time.

[Sitara]

I also wonder if there's a split between BPD types.

There is - high functioning and low functioning. High functioning are more hidden. They'll exhibit behavior at home, but will be viewed as relatively normal outside the home. They are also less likely to admit they have a problem and so are less likely to get treatment. Low functioning tend to have more problems in all aspects, are more prone to physical abuse, drinking, or drugs, so they are more likely to admit they have a problem and are more willing to seek treatment or because of the other problems more likely to get forced into treatment.

Mine is high functioning.

I think a big key is if the pwBPD in your life is willing to admit they have a problem and work at it is a big factor in leaving or staying to work things out. I know that if mine would admit that she did and made some serious attempts at communicating better, I would be more willing to stick around and be more tolerant of her behavior because she would be trying to make changes.

Also my mom would go through phases of all four of the types in this order: hermit, witch, queen, waif. Hermit made me feel like an inconvenience because she never wanted to do anything. Witch was probably worst because of all the threats and cut-downs. I did jump to do whatever the queen wanted for a long time, but started to ignore it after I got older. And I generally ignored the waif because she typically was so over-dramatic and over the top with it that it was so unrealistic that I generally gave it little more than an eye roll.

I would guess that a witch is going to put off people more because that personality type lashes out at others more in a negative way, actively cutting you down. I could see people getting tired of the queen's demands also. But hermit and waif are more passive, so maybe that's more tolerable.

[clljhns]

coraliesolange,

Interesting question.  I think that it is a combination of perspective and how the child was treated by the BPD parent. I am the youngest of five and kept contact with my mother until I was 39. My oldest sister was my mom's confident, so she experienced the waif and hermit mostly. My brother and sister who are two years older experienced the witch and queen for the most part. She would physically abuse them and rage at them all the time until they were into their teens. At this point, my sister began running away and my brother would just stay away from home with his friends, until he joined the service. I experienced them all, as I was terrified of her raging and would often hide in the house, like a closet, under the bed, or behind the sofa. I was never physically abused to the extent my brother and sister were, but I emotionally experienced what they did. My middle sister was placed in a residential institution when she was nine due to severe mental retardation and paralysis.

Being that my oldest sister was my mother's surrogate partner and confidant, she was the "golden child", my brother and sister were the "black sheep" and I was the "lost child." Being the golden child was an enviable position from the perspective of a small child. My oldest sister could do no wrong, and was often used as an example for the rest of us kids. We were constantly told that we should be more like ":)." Now, my oldest sister's outward appearance to this praise was one of pride. Of course, my other sister and brother realized that they were no good as my mother would often tell them. She would rant at them and then get my oldest sister to chime in agreement. It was a despicable thing for my mother to do and to engage my sister in her verbal attacks, was as equally despicable.

As a result, both my sister and brother were told to never come back. Of course, this would change when my siblings would call and ask for forgiveness. Of course, having attained validation by the victims that she (mom) right, they were invited back in for another round of insults and abuse. It didn't last long and they both moved on more than twenty years ago. My oldest sister and I were forbidden to have any communication with them as this was seen as a sign of disrespect for my parents. They made it very clear that they were no longer a part of the family and we would not be welcome in their lives if we wanted contact with them. I did maintain contact on the sly, but it would always come out and then I was now voted the "black sheep" of the family. I also felt compelled to stay in contact with my parents because I believed them that I couldn't make it without them. I also bought into their reason for telling my brother and sister to leave. I just remembered that my mother would tell my sister that the movie The Bad Seed, was based on her. My mother was an extremely cruel person!

I read a great book and watched the entire series by John Bradshaw on dysfunctional families. It was a revelation. As one family member moves out of the family circle, those who remain must take the position of the missing family member in order to maintain the family dynamics. Crazy, but true!

While I never considered myself "the chosen one", my siblings told me many years later that I was the one that was treated with kid gloves. Interesting perspective, given that my mother would love to grab me by my long hair and jerk me around when she was mad at me. She did this up until I was 13. She even once pinned me down with her hands around my throat on her bed and threatened to strangle me if I didn't shut up. I went to talk to her about a problem I was having at school. That was the kind and loving reaction I got. My mother used to openly ridicule me in front of my siblings and tell me I lived in a fantasy world and was too stupid to make it on my own. She continued to tell me this even as a grown woman with a daughter. She would also tell me that any opinion I had or decision I made must have been influenced by someone else because I was too immature to think for myself.

So, I think that it is perspective and treatment of the child. It would be interesting to find out what perspective your en-siblings have of mom.

Just a side note. My oldest sister went NC for three years, and then couldn't handle being separated from our parents. Personally, knowing that she has a LOT of traits of BPD, it is a comfortable place for her to  be. She is also terrified that she will not inherit from our parents, and has over the years spirited things out of their home without their knowledge. She has made it clear to all of us kids that the material possessions of our parents is very important to her. She must be ecstatic right now because my father told me ten years ago that we were all out of the will, except the one sister. Well, he never did get. We didn't want their material possessions. We wanted unconditional love. But I digress.