SD14 caught shoplifting

[ennie]

Well, here are the teen years.  My SD14 is a really great kid, willing to apologize when she hurts someone's feelings, to say, "I am sorry I got so angry.  That was all me.  I am feeling really hormonal right now."  Last two weeks she was with us were hugely emotional for her, but really great in the end.

She went to mom's for spring break.  The day they were supposed to leave town, SD14 got caught shoplifting as they were leaving town.  And, she had an item of clothing, lip gloss, and sunglasses... . enough that it would have been hard to hide it from mom.  And enough that my guess is that she has done it before. 

The good parts:

--BPDmom notified dad right away, I think a first when there has been a kid crisis while at mom's.

--Dad got SD14 to call him, and they had a great talk... . among other gems was SD14 saying, "I thought you would be more mad," and DH saying, "When I get mad, or have big consequences, it is to keep you from having to deal with this kind of consequence, so I am really sad for you, but it is out of my hands."  Her:  ":)addy, do you think I am a bad person?"  DH: "No!  Never.  I love you and you are not a bad person.  You just made a bad choice, but we will get through this. You are NOT bad." 

--She got caught young, which means she will probably not do this again, as she is totally humiliated.  Also, that the consequences are not by dad, so he is not bad, and not at his house, so no mom/dad conflict. 

The concerning stuff:

--Mom was right there, so it is unclear whether she has allowed this in the past. 

--Mom told dad that it was partly her fault, as SD14 has no clothes at her house, because she is too poor ("But I swear, I spend all the child support on the kids!" because DH does not give enough child support. So it is concerning the kids do not have clothing, and that mom is even blaming dad a little bit.

--I am concerned about what this means for SD14--the legal consequences, but more the question in my mind is whether she is doing this because of how she is feeling with her mom, and unable to express it.  is she "acting out" for a reason, or is she just a teen who "needed" shorts and wanted lip gloss, and tried just taking it? 

The other things are that she just got a more "alternative" and very short haircut, and I think that part of why she got in trouble is how she looks. 

The hard thing is that she is really a good kid.  She tends not to do the "bad" stuff--does NOT do stuff other kids are doing just to fit in--no drugs, decided she did not want to have a boyfriend until she is older.  In fact, her refusal to do things just to fit it has resulted in some potent social pain this year, and is partly why she decided to dress more alternatively, and has developed a really cool and somewhat outcast set of friends.  They do stuff together like plant gardens, go on hikes, ride horses, and so on.  She is also doing the best she has done in her life in school, despite learning disabilities.  At our house, she is also earning money, and helping out more.  So I while I am really grateful for her to have some consequences to her actions at this age, I also feel sad that other kids I know who are doing so much worse things are NOT in trouble, and she is.  That makes me really sad, and also I am afraid that she will decide something about herself that will make it easier to get in trouble later. 

What really worries me is that her mom was the one with her, and mom tends to be black and white.  What we have heard so far is that SD14 is giving her lip and being rude (is black in mom's eyes), and that the store was totally messed up for calling the police when she has never done this before (store is black, so what SD14 did does not count).  Blame and no consequences tends to be mom's style.  But so far, mom is being much more reasonable than at other times.

SD14 is back with us in a week.  Just hoping to love her and not let her off the hook. 

Also, SD14 still does not have a counselor after mom trashed the counselor in front of the girls and SD14 refused to go again... . so maybe this is a good time to pursue that. 

[Matt]

Some thoughts... .

* My own kids have been through a lot and have made some bad choices, especially under stress.  SS35 was raised by his BPD mom, and started drinking at 12, and drugs in high school.  Now he's been clean and sober for more than 5 years, and he's become a very good, honest person, but he's in prison - 5 1/2 years through a 7-year sentence - so his life has been impacted a lot by what started at those early ages.

* My stepdaughter acted out a lot in high school, and got caught smoking weed just a few days after her mom and I broke up (suddenly).  She admitted it was a cry for attention.

* My D17 got a ticket last week for running a stoplight.  Doesn't quite fit this discussion because it was really just a mistake, but I've still had to consider the right ways of dealing with it, kind of like you are.

I think you are right to consider counseling for her.  If you can just make that decision - not even as a "consequence" which sounds a lot like "punishment", but as something that you believe will help her, that will be best - no choices in the matter for SD or her mom, just a wise decision for her best interests.  If you can't do that - if you need the other parent to agree - I would pursue it the best you can - e-mail Mom, "We will be taking SD to counseling so she can work on her issues." or whatever, and if Mom blocks it, then court might be the next step.

I think you might also ask yourself whether you believe the current custody situation is best or not, and if not, what steps you can take.

About a year ago, my S15's doctor said she thought he was severely depressed and maybe even suicidal.  I didn't agree, but I decided to take the strongest steps I could out of an abundance of caution.  The doctor recommended counseling, and I discussed that with S15's mom, and we agreed it would be best, and I told S15 "I made an appointment for you with the counselor." and that was that - no argument.  If his mom had not agreed, I would have proceeded anyway, based on the doctor's recommendation, and because there was no reason not to - no harm would come to him even if counseling wasn't needed.  (Looking back, I think it wasn't needed, and had little impact - he did not embrace it and nothing much was accomplished.  But no harm either.)

I also wrote to his mom, "I think it will be best for S15 to spend school nights here through the coming school year."  Instead of 50/50, more like 90/10.  I mentioned that the psychologist who did the custody evaluation had recommended 50/50 but also said over time it might be better for S15 to spend more time with me.  I didn't ask her, and I didn't ask S15 - I consulted her but made it clear what I believed was needed, and then I went ahead and made the change.

She could have blocked me, with the court order on her side, and my next step would have been court, which I didn't want to do.  But she didn't - I think she knew she would look bad since she has not gotten the court-ordered therapy for herself.  So she did nothing, I made the change, and he's doing fine - the counselor told me just this week there is no problem and she has no concerns about him at all.

For your SD, maybe you can somehow use this as an opportunity to make things better, which probably means shifting her time to mostly with you.  I don't know if her mom would ever agree to that, or if you would have to go to court.  Is there any leverage you might have that could convince her mom it would be best not to fight over it?

[Nope]

Yes now would be the perfect time to get a new counselor for her. I am currently reading a book called Parenting with Love and Logic by Foster Cline and Jim Fay. They stress that allowing kids to deal with natural consequences when they make wrong choices is the best way for them to learn to do better later. The later in development that children learn about natural consequences the heavier the price tag will be. But I think you are right, she could go one of two ways with this. She can decide that next time she just won't get caught or she can decide that even if she could get away with it the next time she won't every time and it isn't worth the negative experience and the guilt.

[Matt]

Yes now would be the perfect time to get a new counselor for her. I am currently reading a book called Parenting with Love and Logic by Foster Cline and Jim Fay. They stress that allowing kids to deal with natural consequences when they make wrong choices is the best way for them to learn to do better later. The later in development that children learn about natural consequences the heavier the price tag will be. But I think you are right, she could go one of two ways with this. She can decide that next time she just won't get caught or she can decide that even if she could get away with it the next time she won't every time and it isn't worth the negative experience and the guilt.

Yeah, that's a really good point.  I think "natural consequences" could include whatever reasonable penalties there might be for a minor caught shoplifting - probably not too severe, and I think her record will be sealed when she turns 18, so there won't be lasting damage, but if she has to do some community service or whatever, it's probably best to let that happen.

I've learned this the hard way.  When my older son got his first DUI, I got him a lawyer, and he only had to serve 24 hours in jail.  I was glad for that, but it was probably a mistake;  he got two more DUIs and then he was in big trouble.

When my D17 got a ticket last week, I told her I would go with her to court - she has to bring a parent - but whatever the penalty is, she'll have to pay - maybe a fine, or traffic school which costs as much as the fine.  She has some money and will be working over the summer, so she can pay, but it will hurt - a few hundred dollars is a lot to her.  And if our insurance goes up, she'll have to pay that difference too.

I tried not to over-react since I know it was a mistake, but I laid down a few new commonsense rules;  for example, if she doesn't leave the house on time, she can't drive to school - I'll have to take her - since I don't want her to rush - that's why she ran the stop sign, because she was in a hurry and didn't see it.  She seemed to see the fairness and good sense in that - not a punishment but a sensible and moderate change that will reduce the risk of more tickets (or an accident).

Maybe you can find some stuff like that too - let the court impose the penalty, and let SD pay that price, and you provide guidance and moderate, sensible changes that will help her change her behavior.

But for what it's worth, I can't see shoplifting as the same as a traffic ticket.  My D17 is responsible - not trying to minimize it - but it was a mistake not a choice.  Shoplifting is a deliberate choice, and 14 is old enough to know it's wrong.  If she really needed clothes, she should have talked to her mom or to you - she has ways to get what she needs - so that's no excuse.  Either she was acting out to get attention, or there is some other problem that needs to be dealt with.  That's why I think counseling is probably a good idea... .

[ennie]

Thanks, guys. 

Yes, my mom is a teacher of love and logic parenting and we use that stuff a lot, and it is often just how I communicate in general with the kids.  My mom has worked with Foster Cline for many years and I listen to and read his stuff and his son's stuff often.

One thing that is great about those parenting techniques is that most of them are equally applicable to parents and step-parents alike, because it is about using empathy and your own boundaries rather than focusing on "discipline" or authority.  I always have authority when it comes to my actions, and I find it easy to have empathy, so the kids and I usually have great mutual respect.  I do not think S14 would have shoplifted with me in the store, because when she has done inappropriate stuff, I just let her know I am leaving and not buying her the thing she wanted, and have not caved in when she is upset, but just hear her and let her know I feel her pain.  So she gets that my limits are my limits, but that she is loved. 

As for the counselor thing, this is an area I do not have authority.  The kids were in counseling, then mom trashed her in front of the kids, so SD14 stopped going.  I have been trying to get DH to get a new counselor for about 2-3 years, but he has put it off.  So now, mom has made an appointment with her counselor... . who has never met DH.  The parenting plan says the counselor is counselor #1, the kids' counselor of 3 years, until terminated by both parents in writing.  The parenting plan says both parents must confer and agree on any new counselor.  Also, mom is court ordered to be in therapy, to have the therapist read the custody evaluation first thing, and to prove to DH she is in therapy.  None of this has happened.

Mom just informed DH that SD14 has an appointment next monday, no info on who or anything else.  Mom is great at wrapping novice therapists around her finger, but those experienced with BPD are not so easy to mislead. 

As this to the fact that SD14 is super enmeshed and says she only wants to live with mom, particularly when mom is drinking a lot, suicidal, or depressed... . and it is really scary, as mom could frame things such that a novice T could think SD14 had a great relationship with mom and really SHOULD live with her full time. 

I will post more on this in another post, but the overall situation is that DH is really slow about following through on stuff, and it costs us.  And, after a 2 year custody battle, it is really not likely he is going to put much energy into getting more custody.  Particularly as SD14 would fight it desperately. 

The truth is, I think in a year she will be open to more time with us.  Not sure, but it is possible.  She used to say she only wanted to live with mommy.  We have had 50/50 (or DH has) since the divorce (we got together a year after they separated, and during that time he had 50/50 on paper but the kids were with mom more to let him work).  I do not think we have the money, time, or energy to do another custody battle, unless it is something much bigger than shoplifting (like drugs or alcohol or major issues).  It was totally destructive to the kids tho the outcome was decent, and we used every bit of savings and are still paying the debt 3 years later. 

I think that SD14 really wants one place, not two.  She wants to go to boarding school so she can have one place, but not upset mom.  But she does not have the grades and we do not have the money to make that happen, nor is DH sure that is a good idea.

I am so aware of how important parenting is for her at this time.  SD14 and her dad had a big fight recently, in which me being there allowed her to really express her deeper feelings... . and allowed dad the space to explain that because he was kicked out of his home as a teen, he did not really know how to go through this stuff in the best way, that he was learning, too.  Usually, SD14 targets me with some of her anger when coming from mom's (where most of her intense anger originates), saying that she wishes she just had her dad to deal with, not me. Mostly, this comes up because I have better boundaries than DH.  For example, if I offer to help her with something and she says yes or asks for something, and then says mean teen things or throws a fit, I just let her know that I am happy to help if she can ask in a nicer way, or do some repair work after she did her thing.  If she is not willing, that is fine, but then I do not do the thing that I offered, period.  She has tried the whole, "if you do not get it for me, I will flunk school!"; I just say, "It is not my job to make sure you have what you need for school.  I want to help, but only if you are willing to ask in a respectful way."  She then later apologizes and is really willing to work through stuff. 

But recently, she has been expressing how grateful she is for me.  IN THE FIGHTS!  She will say, "Thank you so much for being with me and helping me to learn how to express anger.  Please stay!"  Or, "Thank you for helping me speak my heart to daddy so he can hear me.  I love you daddy, and I love you ennie!" 

I feel like this is because I have really prioritized clear boundaries and communication with the kids, and she really loves it.  Her dad is great, too, and where he feels uncertain he goes along with Foster Cline perspective; my weakness is getting too depleted and then just getting angry, and he is great at getting me to cool off.  So we are a good team. 

So it is clear to me, and I think to DH, that just living with mom is not really an option. SD14 is just too in need of same parents right now! Not to mention the fact that it would be really hard on SD10. 

But we really have to wait until SD14 is a little clearer before DH suggests more time with us.  If that ever happens... .