closure?

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Ok ill keep it short and to the point from what ive read most if not all have experienced the whole breaking the cookie jar and running thing. what the heck is up with them not giving closure and blatently avoiding it at all costs. I cant speak for all but alot of the anxiety and pain I feel comes from this. What are your thoughts on why they do this?

[AG]

Ok ill keep it short and to the point from what ive read most if not all have experienced the whole breaking the cookie jar and running thing. what the heck is up with them not giving closure and blatently avoiding it at all costs. I cant speak for all but alot of the anxiety and pain I feel comes from this. What are your thoughts on why they do this?

[LettingGo14]

Ok ill keep it short and to the point from what ive read most if not all have experienced the whole breaking the cookie jar and running thing. what the heck is up with them not giving closure and blatently avoiding it at all costs. I cant speak for all but alot of the anxiety and pain I feel comes from this. What are your thoughts on why they do this?

Interesting question AG.   I think I have wrestled with the definition of "closure."  Is it a final goodbye?  Understanding where you stand?  Understanding why things blew up?  Getting an audience for a final say?

In my case, I became a trigger.   I ultimately got the "goodbye" -- though in a triggered, emotional, blaming way.   And that was that.

The most important thing for me has been re-framing and re-interpreting everything.   I had to internalize the goodbye.  I had to give closure to myself.

[AwakenedOne]

My guess is when our ex's run off like that it's because they feel a mix of selfishness (which they consider GOOD) & shame (which they consider bad). They choose to run to get the good (new bigger and better life "cookie" and that selfishness combined with the shame of having broken us (the cookie jars) they run off before we can say why?

[AG]

Both interesting takes especially yours awakened one. I think for my case and alot of cases they know they leave confusion and also do not have the courage to let you go. They want to keep the door open and never lose you. Just my take though would love to hear more opinions on this. Feeling overwhelming anxiety lately with these thoughts. I was so overwhelmed last nught plus drinking heavily and contacted her thru email asking for closure. I got nothing. No response just more running as usual. It is what it is cant take it back now but feel horrible inside and regret drinking.

[confused alot]

I'm in the same spot, but don't regret it, just delete all traces of contact information, email addresses, FB, instagram and the like. When you feel like writing something, come to this sight, or write a journal of everything you're feeling. When you're down writing your thoughts down, throw it in a fire pit! to me it's like releasing all of my negative feelings without anyone ever knowing.

As for closure, you will never get it or if you do it will set you back when you really discovered what happened. I got the whole "you're a wonderful person, you deserve better, I was really glad to have met you bla, bla, bla" it's like they are reading off a script typical clichés. When I did go no contact which was immediately, I didn't hear a word from her until 4 months after the break up. I got a text message from a number that I recognized was her dad's phone. I soon as I saw that number appear, it gave me the chills. It was the weirdest text message. I did not respond, two days later I was getting more from the same number asking me how I was doing, and where my new job was taking me (very odd).

Well, the only thing I could think of was that my ex reopened her FB account and was doing a little cyber peaking on my profile. Well, like a dumb ass, I looked at her profile and saw my replacement (she was cheating on me for a long time prior to the breakup).

The best closure I could come up with for myself is that I did my best. I'm not perfect in any means, but I treated her with kindness, compassion, respect, and loyalty. I never cheated on her, and always gave the benefit of the doubt. Knowing that you are a good person, loyal, and faithful is what I keep reminding myself knowing that one day it will pay off. Sorry don't mean to preach.

[Tausk]

Closure during an end of a relationship with two people of reasonable emotional and mental intelligence involves the commonalities in the relationship, including validation of the contributions and at a minimal, validation of areas which can not be resolved.

In an interaction between a pwBPD and a partner, the commonalities are simply not there.  Both people were on different pages from the start.  And since the pwBPD doesn't have the necessary capacity for self-awarenes, self-reflection and to take responsibility, the ending of the interaction is even more confusing.  

My ex simply couldn't deal with trying to figure things out.  She couldn't take responsibility.  She couldn't even remember incidences that occurred during our interaction.   How could we as a couple ever find closure and commonalities when in the moment, the Disorder was fabricating the past to fit her present state of mind?

It's a severe Disorder.  Not just mental illness.  :)isorder.  Think about the traumatized three year-old who lives in sheer terror and whose worst nightmare of abandonment is coming true.   And after a rollercoaster ride of a multi-year interaction, if you are asking this traumatized three year old for closure on what was her faults, where you contributed, validation... . you won't find any.  All you can get, is that you were mean, abusive, and are planning on abandoning them.  

The above is the only thing my ex can cognitively understand.    

It's hard enough to provide closure in the pain of a break up.  A pwBPD who feels so intensely, and who has so little capacity for responsibility, empathy, object constancy, guilt... .  simply can't provide the closure that we seek.   It just causes more confusion, pain, shame and TERROR.  

In the end, my ex can't validate my love.  She can't validate my contribution.  She can't apologize for her abuse and lying.  She even can't apologize for the cheating.   Not that she won't... . she can't.  

All my ex can do is forget me, paint me black, and lay with another man.

The only closure that I get is from:

Radically accepting that the above facts are true.  

Radically accepting that the Disorder is real, a B___, more powerful than me, doesn't want happiness, and always wins.

And shutting the door to something that hurts me without cause, awareness or gain, which is basically any further interaction with the Disorder.

[Pecator]

WOW Tausk!

I went to put your response into a document I call, bpdfamily's Greatest Hits, and discovered you were my last entry as well!

It was from a different thread, but it makes a great case for why closure is impossible for pwBPD

Hope you don't mind if I quote it here. Its insight will be helpful.

Tausk from: I don't remember when

My exgfwBPD never really felt remorse or guilt.  She only felt shame, which was either repressed or erupted upon me through anger and projection.  Shame is how we feel about ourselves, Guilt/Remorse is how we feel about our actions.   Shame is a baser emotion than guilt. Remorse is a higher emotion that involves self awareness and and the ability to take responsibility for one's actions.


Or in another perspective, it's like a three year who impulsively steals a cookie and gets caught.  While being scolded, he may say he's sorry, but he really doesn't have the capacity to take responsibility for his actions.  He saw the cookie and at three years old he doesn't have the impulse control and executive decision making capacity to deny his desires.  His want for the cookie is the same as his need for the cookie.  And he does not have the ability to take responsibility for his actions.  But he feels great shame at her mother's scolding.

So he'll say he's sorry if he's forced to say it.  But inside he's feeling towards his mother is,, "You are mean and abusive, and I hate you!"  And he's really only sorry for getting caught or that you are mad.  Thus the, "I'm sorry your are mad" responses that so many of us have heard.

AG

Hang in there my friend. The anxiety is tough. Trust me. I had a condition that left me riddled with anxiety issues before I met my uBPDex. I actually healed while with her (imagine that!) I now see clearly how my recovery would have been so much easier if I had a healthy partner. In the last several months of our r/s, my nerve issues were negligible. I began to love her more and deepen hope in our future.

She never wanted to talk about my healing process. She never once acknowledged, let alone, affirm my progress of recovery. I found out, too late, why. As many say around this site, we were living on two different pages. While stability was bringing me hope, it was triggering her fears. In a rare moment of vulnerability, she confessed that she was afraid that she was just my lifeboat and that I would leave her once I got stable. She only admitted it once, from then on I was split.

She knew well of my condition. So the cruelty in the way she split and replaced me is only magnified. I was back calling crisis lines. Taking medication and drinking just to get away from those awful nerves. I could not believe how quickly I fell back into the darkest days of my life.

I hope that your experience wasn't as severe to mine as I had a precondition Just today, I had my first real day without nerves. I was so happy today to feel normal without medication or booze. I felt like I did those months before she did this awful thing.

I hope you can accept, as I have, the anxiety around BPD for nons (whether bringing anxiety issues or not) come from the disorder.

In order to survive, pwBPD have become experts at mirroring. They have an uncanny ability to find our deepest hopes and dreams and make people believe they are coming true. Anyone (whether predisposed or not) will feel intense anxiety when their deepest hopes and dreams vanish in smoke and mirrors. The lack of closure feeds the anxiety by invalidating those hopes and dreams.

Whether they meant anything to our partners or not, they are still our deepest hopes and dreams. They are still valid for us.

Just wanted to say, I am making it my friend, and so will you!

[myself]

PwBPD are hurting, lonely, doubtful, and feel lost. Which is also what we go through at the end of the r/s. This disorder warps connections. They don't want to and can't help us find closure. That would show it's possible to overcome this, or any major life crisis, as 'partners', together. That kind of closeness brings the whole house of cards down. Knowing someone else is out there in a similar painful condition brings them a strange form of comfort.

[Blimblam]

whats so odd with my exgfwBPD waif is she actually does give me good advice on letting go and it does all sound like scripted typical clichés. 

its strange the way she does it too.  Because she will sing song lyrics from the band called "the do."  Its about break up and letting go and the lead singer sounds like she has BPD.  When I ask her if shes trying to tell me a message she tells me she just likes the way the song sounds.

She doesn't want me to hurt, but she can not help but be what she is.  WHen confronted she will lie because she can not hold herself accountable.

She can not help but hurt me because I have actual love for her and care about her in a selfless way.  The only kind of "love" she can find comfort in is that which is a form of abuse and a lie.  I have seen photos of a couple of her exs and they have psychopath eyes.  I have met a few of her "hosts" and they were narcissists and with these people she would put up with the most ridiculous ___ and use me to dump the negative energy on.

I feel that when someone actually cares about them they just see a fantasy of love and being cared about and when they find inconsistancies  with their fantasy. They unload all their negative energy into you and discard you and are then ready to be abused and used again by narcissists and psychopaths, all the while they have a few new "nice guys" on the back burner for when it is time to unload their negative energy once again.

[AG]

AG

"Hang in there my friend. The anxiety is tough. Trust me. I had a condition that left me riddled with anxiety issues before I met my uBPDex. I actually healed while with her (imagine that!) I now see clearly how my recovery would have been so much easier if I had a healthy partner. In the last several months of our r/s, my nerve issues were negligible. I began to love her more and deepen hope in our future.

She never wanted to talk about my healing process. She never once acknowledged, let alone, affirm my progress of recovery. I found out, too late, why. As many say around this site, we were living on two different pages. While stability was bringing me hope, it was triggering her fears. In a rare moment of vulnerability, she confessed that she was afraid that she was just my lifeboat and that I would leave her once I got stable. She only admitted it once, from then on I was split.

She knew well of my condition. So the cruelty in the way she split and replaced me is only magnified. I was back calling crisis lines. Taking medication and drinking just to get away from those awful nerves. I could not believe how quickly I fell back into the darkest days of my life.

I hope that your experience wasn't as severe to mine as I had a precondition Just today, I had my first real day without nerves. I was so happy today to feel normal without medication or booze. I felt like I did those months before she did this awful thing.

I hope you can accept, as I have, the anxiety around BPD for nons (whether bringing anxiety issues or not) come from the disorder.

In order to survive, pwBPD have become experts at mirroring. They have an uncanny ability to find our deepest hopes and dreams and make people believe they are coming true. Anyone (whether predisposed or not) will feel intense anxiety when their deepest hopes and dreams vanish in smoke and mirrors. The lack of closure feeds the anxiety by invalidating those hopes and dreams.

Whether they meant anything to our partners or not, they are still our deepest hopes and dreams. They are still valid for us.

Just wanted to say, I am making it my friend, and so will you!"




I'm sorry for your anxiety issues past or present ones. I never have had anxiety issues or have even felt what it feels like until this breakup. It is a totally new sensation that was so overwhelming for me at first that my thoughts became dark very dark. I wanted it to stop and still do want it to stop. I swear I think it is the same level of anxiety my ex felt. Funny how they're kind of trauma they leave behind hurts but not funny in a comical way. The funny thing about the mirroring is that I still cannot see how it was done with myself. The weird difference with my ex is that she seemed to have some sort of core personality. The only similarity was her liking animals like how I do but she still seems to like animals. She had tattoos like how I do but they were there before me and so were mine. I did however notice a new tattoo that didn't match her style at all and the potential replacement I saw had a similar tattoo style tattoo on his arm. I also saw her wearing a chain that looked like his style too. Besides that we seemed to like different things while together. She could have mirrored me in other ways though that I am unaware of not sure though. The no core personality thing always confused me as I tried to analyze it plenty of times to see where she copied mine at. I did see her send the guy a green heart on facebook though. That one really hurt me as it was very specific and literally stolen from my book as I would send her a purple heart through text all the time because it was her favorite color. Kinda crappy and heartless to do something like that but it is what it is. As for your question about the severity of what was done to me I'm not familiar with your story so I don't really know if mine is on level I just know the feeling that I'm dealing with is the worst I've ever felt in my life and I am no stranger to heartache or pain. This one literally causes me to have to go lay down from either nausea, anxiety, migrane headaches, and a crap load of other emotions that I probably cant even explain in words because Im foreign to the feeling. Just when I start to feel better I fall right back into it again. SMH

[Blimblam]

I know the feeling AG,

All of a sudden negative energy patterns within oneself arise never experienced before.  For me it would be panic attacks and anxiety attacks or being on the verge of them constantly.  the last few times I saw her she was cool as a cucumber and would like a cat toying with a mouse ever so subtly rise the anxiety out of me like a puppet master.

I could literally see the sadistic smile on her face grow as my anxiety grew like a direct correlation.  Then I was lost.

they are definitely succubi.

And as for closure mine told me by text. "that's in your head now and only you can figure out how to let that go and heal yourself. You cant make me do anything"

[AG]

I know the feeling AG,

All of a sudden negative energy patterns within oneself arise never experienced before.  For me it would be panic attacks and anxiety attacks or being on the verge of them constantly.  the last few times I saw her she was cool as a cucumber and would like a cat toying with a mouse ever so subtly rise the anxiety out of me like a puppet master.

I could literally see the sadistic smile on her face grow as my anxiety grew like a direct correlation.  Then I was lost.

they are definitely succubi.

And as for closure mine told me by text. "that's in your head now and only you can figure out how to let that go and heal yourself. You cant make me do anything"

That is the type of ish that triggers extreme anger in me. Im sorry dude that really pisses me off. That is super childish. It literally sounds like something a child would say "You can't make me do anything" "I know you are but what am I" smh. I really cannot stop saying I cannot believe these people exist. I really can't.

[Blimblam]

I had been texting her a long the lines of, "I am deeply hurt and am working on forgiving you so we can remain friends. a sincere appolgy in person eye to eye would give me the reassurance I need to be able to forgive you"


and yes it would trigger me insanely but it was futile and gave her ammunition to triangulate me to others as the controlling crazy exbf to her fan club who would validate her. Even mutual friends began to think I was the problem that I was "scary."  Scary for explaining to her the importance of trust as the foundation of friendship and why its important to be able to forgive to be able to let go of pain. how I want to forgive and how she could help me forgive. and texting that after she made ___ing statements liked that would at times set me off.