Anyone else struggling with fixing their own inner core issues?

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

I know everything there is to BPD. I practically have it all memorized after all the studying. Most of the criteria fits my ex but it is still not a guarantee that she has it. I know not to focus on the label but the actions instead. It helps me to reread articles and my previous threads and the responses but then I always end up back to a feeling of emptiness inside that is very painful.

I am in therapy and we try to recollect my memories of childhood to pinpoint my codependent issues and any dysfunction of my foo.All I can remember is my parents loved me. I think I came from a healthy family. I believe my therapist is a good counselor and without diagnosing my ex, he is confident that she exhibits enough traits to even be comorbid if not just BPD. I am on my third therapist and I believe they have all done the best they could, short of hypnosis, to get me to peal back the layers of the onion.  I thought it would make me feel better if I actually believed I dodged a bullet by not marrying her but I still wonder at times. I still find myself subconsciously waiting to be recycled after my replacement has ad enough  or if he gets painted black but it never happens. Does anyone else struggle like I do?   

[swimjim]

I know everything there is to BPD. I practically have it all memorized after all the studying. Most of the criteria fits my ex but it is still not a guarantee that she has it. I know not to focus on the label but the actions instead. It helps me to reread articles and my previous threads and the responses but then I always end up back to a feeling of emptiness inside that is very painful.

I am in therapy and we try to recollect my memories of childhood to pinpoint my codependent issues and any dysfunction of my foo.All I can remember is my parents loved me. I think I came from a healthy family. I believe my therapist is a good counselor and without diagnosing my ex, he is confident that she exhibits enough traits to even be comorbid if not just BPD. I am on my third therapist and I believe they have all done the best they could, short of hypnosis, to get me to peal back the layers of the onion.  I thought it would make me feel better if I actually believed I dodged a bullet by not marrying her but I still wonder at times. I still find myself subconsciously waiting to be recycled after my replacement has ad enough  or if he gets painted black but it never happens. Does anyone else struggle like I do?   

[LettingGo14]

Does anyone else struggle like I do?   

Hey swimjim -- to be honest, I struggle with the archaeological digging into my childhood -- although, intellectually, I do it, and I know I ought to do it.  But, someone told me once that we start where we are, and it helped.  I translate it as follows:

Something about the end of my relationship devastated me.  My T always reminds me that "during" the relationship I was filled with questions about the drama, and instability, and emotional volatility.    Yet, when I was abandoned, split, painted black, and then replaced, I suffered tremendously -- I could feel the anxiety sitting in my chest as if I swallowed a 100lb steel ball.

I "knew" that I was enmeshed and attached and identified with my ex-girlfriend -- and, for a long time, I thought I just needed to excise her from my mind and that the 100lb weight would disappear.   But, the more I struggled, the heavier the weight became -- and I began to question if I was the "problem" in the relationship.

Ultimately, I decided that -- maybe -- there was some unconscious reason I clung to the pain.  I don't know if it was because of my childhood or not, and in some ways, it doesn't really matter.   Instead, I decided that I could own the 100lb weight in my chest and work with it.   After all, I was the one who generated the emotions in me.

So -- I accepted being stuck.  And I accepted the weight.  And I decided that, even if I could not pinpoint "why" I was stuck or trace it back to my childhood, I could work with what I had.  Meaning, start where I am.

In doing so, I began to be curious as to what kept me stuck.  I held the anxiety.  I looked at it.  I did not try to make it go away.   I talked about it with my T.   

I began to see how I had created an identity for myself that was linked with my ex-girlfriend, and maintained by my rumination and anxiety.   Slowly, I've been detaching myself from the false self I clung to.

Meditation has been the key for me.  Not identifying with the emotions, but still holding them.   Realizing the love I gave (and thought lost) is still in me.  Realizing that the sorrow that ebbs and flows is just a part of living.   

I don't know if I'll ever trace back to FOO.  But, I'm learning how to work with what I have, and where I am.   Hope that helps in some way.

[Caredverymuch]

Hello Jim and Letting Go,

I understand exactly what you both feel.  I think one thing most of us have in common, or at least it's something i tend to read here, is that we were well functioning people prior to these damaging relationships and are rather shocked to be left with such after effects of these breakups. My friends who have known me most of my life have asked where the strong, positive, always able to handle almost anything with ease and stability person has gone? This issue causes me to ruminate as well. I am shocked by how deeply this relationship damaged me. Leaving me feeling very empty and alone. Two words I heard over and over again by my expBPD. Two things I had never felt before that relationship.

I read somewhere on this site that the most damaging thing anyone can do is to bond and attach to another to the depths BPDs do with their SO's, and then just abandon. It causes soul damage because we nons are bonding while attaching, deeply. It's not about "need" so much as it is about love, for us. Our codependency seems to result as a by product of the way the BPD seduces us. All the clinging laced with the adoration and constant positive attention produces the codependency in a rather "us against the world" way. It feels right and blissful in a way.  I was never a codependant person to that depth before.

I also feel the codependancy was cemented by our minds inability to register what was happening due to the rapid and chaotic cycling. It happens so fast and without reason.  I don't know too many people that put that much effort, adoration, and constant wanting to be with the one they "love"  (during idealization/seduction) only to do just the opposite there after. And then some.

My T used EMDR with me. I may get the full analogy of this partly wrong but she told that parts of our minds/psyche get literally "stuck" when we are traumatized.  This is one of the reasons we are so deeply entrenched with the emotions we feel over and over yet. EMDR works to desensitize and reprocess the feelings associated with the events that caused the trauma. It seemed to work to calm the anxiety I was feeling with the ruminations and triggerings.  I still deal with many of the same feelings we all do. But I try to remind me self that while I miss the person, I do NOT miss the chaos and drama and manipulations, etc.  I don't miss any of those feelings. I, too, wish for a recycle because there was no closure. And I just plainly miss someone I loved. But I remind myself of what my T has told me. Do I want to live in constant trauma, as i was while with my expBPD, or do I want to be in a healthy again. She sees patients who are in relationships like ours for years on end now, who deal with the same trauma we did, on a daily basis.  I remind myself of that when I feel the hurt and missing coming on.  I also remind myself that I am remembering only the good. Which felt SO good. But the bad was just as much of that person. Disordered or not. I try to remember that. I hope you can too. Its all very sad in the end, to have to think like some one I am not.

[swimjim]

Thank you caredverymuch and lettinggo14. It is a struggle beyond comprehension. Everyone here encourages us to work on OURSELVES. I use mindfulness, therapy, exercise, reading up on BPD, reading up on codependency, meditation (like mindfulness). I would think I get an "A" for effort in working on ME but the pain still persists. This relationship has rocked my foundation with issues of trust and self esteem. I don't know if other members here have been able to reflect back on their own childhoods and had an epiphany of sorts that has placed them on the right track towards recovery. I know that part of my struggle is withdrawal from addiction from the idealization that I so yearn to have back. I hope others can share their positive experiences with recovery.

[foiles]

Well, for me, it did help to find what may have been the roots of my codependency in my childhood. My parents loved me, too, but they never taught me boundaries. And my BPDbf capitalized on it and made my codependecy even stronger because he wanted me to be dependent on him... . And I let him.

Something when i first met him kept me recycling when most people would have walked... . very fast. I needed to find out why so I didn't repeat it. I didn't want to be the same person I was before my exBPDbf, I wanted to be better. And finally, I was. In a way my relationship was a Godsend. I used it to improve myself. I might have continued to repeat these types of relationships, to a lesser degree, if I hadn't had my world shaken to the core by this one.

Whether its something that was initially acquired in childhood, something genetic, or forced on us by the relationship, finding our core values and learning how to set appropriate boundaries I think helps us all.

Good for you, swimjim, for the work you are doing on yourself. It isn't an easy or quick fix, there is pain during the process. But keep it up and it work in the end.

Foiles

[swimjim]

Thank you follies. I know I have boundary issues myself right now. I know that I am still vulnerable because I fantasize about her running back to me admitting she made a mistake and misses me. Yikes, I'm sad to admit that but I know better not to place my hand on the burning stove. I guess it is a blessing in disguise that my replacement still has her attention. My therapist told me that a healthy person would GENUINELY FEEL lucky they dodged a bullet. I honestly can't say that for myself at this point. It sounds like I AM MASOCHISTIC. Oh, how I want to get to a better place.

[foiles]

I remember lamenting to a friend that "I just want to get to a baseline of emotional stability." it took a year of reading everything I could about self, and esteem, and mindfulness, and therapy before I reached tht 'baseline' and awhile longer before I felt sure of my ability to keep boundaries. Due to my own personality (codependent) it is something I will probably always have to keep in mind when entering any type of new relationship or in ones already established (such as my children). You can get there with continued work. Something my therapist said when I had a breakthrough "Remember, though, you aren't perfect and never can be. And dont have to be. Just keep learning."

[seeking balance]

My therapist told me that a healthy person would GENUINELY FEEL lucky they dodged a bullet. I honestly can't say that for myself at this point. It sounds like I AM MASOCHISTIC. Oh, how I want to get to a better place.

SwimJim,

This thread is awesome - personal inventory really honest 

Here is where I am today on this, feelings are just that - feelings.  They matter, must be felt - but my actions matter too.

There was a long time going through my divorce that if I were totally honest, I might have gone back.  At least I "felt" that way.  Part of that thinking/feeling was that I was not living in the "right here, right now".  I did a little exercise (still do) when I start thinking the "what ifs" - I say to myself, "SB - where are you?  (answer) right here, right now"

This relationship has rocked my foundation with issues of trust and self esteem. I don't know if other members here have been able to reflect back on their own childhoods and had an epiphany of sorts that has placed them on the right track towards recovery. I know that part of my struggle is withdrawal from addiction from the idealization that I so yearn to have back. I hope others can share their positive experiences with recovery.

There are "aha" moments, but nobody that I have seen on these boards over the last few years had a "magic, easy button".  We learn to handle the struggle and eventually the struggle subsides, like the tide - it goes back out.  Sometimes, life will trigger the tide and it comes back in and we pick up the tools and it goes out again.

Where you are, it is normal and even healthy for you.  Just because a "healthy" person would realize the dodged a bullet doesn't mean that you are not good exactly where you are.  Rationally, you know you dodged a bullet - let that be enough.  When we love someone, especially when there is a highly charged bond - our emotions take time to rebalance. 

As I have been rebuilding my life with new meaning and new value (this is hard work sometimes), I can honestly say that I am better for all of this... . but I couldn't said that even a year ago... . this is a process for sure.

Good for you digging deeply!

SB

[charred]

Absolutely. Before my second go round with my pwBPD... would have sworn I grew up unscathed by my malignant NPD dad and waif BPD mom.

Wouldn't say that anymore. The BPD r/s was horrific... . and I finally understand why they are so painful. Goes back to FOO.

If you don't get enough unconditional love from your parents, mother in particular... it can leave you with a lot of problems and kind of a hole inside... or avoidant or worse... like BPD. Then you meet a pwBPD, they basically love bomb you with what seems like unconditional love... and while you may smell a rat... you can't turn it down, and before you know it, the pwBPD has slipped in to the primary r/s position a good mother should have filled. If only it ended there... but it doesn't, the BPD rares its head, you get to fighting and taking abuse you wouldn't from anyone else... but the primary care giver you never had... that now torments you. When you have had enough or they have... . you dump them or worse they dump you... and instead of a normal breakup... you feel like dying. It is like a good parent died ... maybe even worse... no one understands that hasn't been through it. I wouldn't see it this way except I was dumped about 30 yrs ago... without explanation, and then she contacted me 25 yrs later... wreaking havoc in my life... but bringing me to question how in the world I could still care about her after all that time, when I didn't give a damn about any other gals I dated from way back. She said it was because we were soul mates... I think attachment theory gone wrong is more on the money.

So I was not scathed... I was filleted by my FOO core issues.

Attachment theory and thinking it out explained the feelings... but reparenting seems like non-sense... and I am 50+, have nothing to do with my NPD dad and LC with my mom... so I have struggled with fixing core issues. The problem to me now seems to be that I withdrew a lot with each bad thing that happened, till I kept people at a distance that only a boundary busting BPD person would traverse. Found stress to be much of the reason I did that distancing... . and had about gave up on getting a lot better. (Been seeing a T for 18 months now)... . mindfulness helped me de-stress to a degree but didn't fix my issues. To be genuine and have true intimacy with people... you have to be fairly low stress... and trust people. Helps not to have knee jerk bad reactions to a long list of stuff as well.

I believe "Wired for Joy" and "The Pathway"... by Laurel Mellin are the most helpful books I have found on actually fixing the problems... they explain how stress drives our behavior (makes a lot of sense... even explains much of BPD nuttiness as stress induced)... and what to do to get back to being in a state of joy and able to be intimate and trusting. It is hard work and slow going. These two books don't try to do analysis and interpretation, they explain how stress affects how we behave, the different stress levels and what was found to work at each level... and so far, my experience has been it works... the catch is learning to habitually take the high road and use new behavior vs my now automatic responses.

The pathway is best start place... two key ideas in it... boundaries and feelings... you need to have and experience both and it is pretty much a workbook to help try and get those skills for people like me that seem to be missing them. The Joy book is more intellectual, has a model of stress with what methods to do at each level of stress... read it after the pathway book if you read them... they were written in that order and I really had issues with them when I read them out of order... then reread in the correct order and thought they were fine.  Might be my quirkiness... .

Good luck... I think there are even more people with core issues needing work than there are people that are here and have issues with BPD.

Oh left out something... saw my mom not long ago and she was telling my daughter about some of the bad things that happened to me when I was about 3 yrs old... having stomach pumped 3 times and injuring myself badly in a very unusual way (gun) ... . afterwards on way home... my daughter said it sounded like I tried to off my self over and over as a kid... how bad is that?

[LuckyNicki]

I am goimg through EXACTLY what youre going through.  Its gross how its so similar. Im in shock as how some things still affect me.  I cant afford a T right now but I keep debating on it everytime i think about it. 

Like you, I get tempted to want a recycle.   But I know that's like asking someone to fire another bullet at me only to see if I can dodge it again. 

The thing that makes me uncomfortable in all this is that it sometimes crosses my mind that she may not be BPD.  Then I go back and forth in my head saying she is.   

Then that's when I go crazy.

Overall I known it doesnt matter.   But a part of me still wants some kind of confirmation.   I've been readinf about BPD and all these personality disorders for months.  One thing is for certain is that if I am affected this much, there def has to be something going on with her.


My breakups are NEVER like this.   Im still trying to remain as cool as possible.   I am healing but man, I sometimes beat myself up for not being completely over it. 

[charred]

My exBPDgf... told me of her BPD diagnosis, so I am sure of that part. Of course I dismissed it/downplayed it and tried to rationalize it away, as my ego wasn't very accepting of the idea that my dream girl, who I got a rare second chance with in life... . fell far short of perfect. When I first read of "radical acceptance"... I accepted that she was BPD intellectually, but certainly not completely... it was very grudgingly. Took a while for me to get that water seeks its own level and it was not a case of her being BPD and me being just fine without any issue at all because it had to be her fault. Being honest with ourselves... that is what radical acceptance is... and a lot of ego and defensiveness had to be set aside to accept that she was disordered, and I have a tall stack of issues as well.

Was amazed how many people have been on these boards... makes it easy to believe that BPD is one of the biblical plagues. Noticed that detaching has lots of people in it, undecided has many, staying has quite a few... . but most people either are stuck in one of those (possible I guess)... or they don't go on to inventory and fixing their own issues/getting on with life. Suppose when the hurt is gone many feel it is enough, but when I look around, I see an epidemic of unhealthy FOO's... . and folks needing help now.

Wish I had fixed my core issues long long ago... . it doesn't get easier to raise a kid right... after they are grown. I am not BPD or NPD... glad of that, but no one really talks about schizoid... which is withdrawn from people... . and that is a possibility (not that I have to have a PD... but if I do that could be it.) Blunted emotions, detachment from things that might hurt too much emotionally, keeping people at arm's distance in professional relationships, rather than close in intimate ones, that kind of thing. Read that between 1% to 40% of people are thought to be schizoid... but they are wallflowers and easy going and don't stand out... and seldom seek help, so no one knows just how many people are like that. Makes me wonder.

[fortunes_fool]

I think one thing most of us have in common, or at least it's something i tend to read here, is that we were well functioning people prior to these damaging relationships and are rather shocked to be left with such after effects of these breakups. My friends who have known me most of my life have asked where the strong, positive, always able to handle almost anything with ease and stability person has gone? This issue causes me to ruminate as well. I am shocked by how deeply this relationship damaged me. Leaving me feeling very empty and alone. Two words I heard over and over again by my expBPD. Two things I had never felt before that relationship.

I read somewhere on this site that the most damaging thing anyone can do is to bond and attach to another to the depths BPDs do with their SO's, and then just abandon. It causes soul damage because we nons are bonding while attaching, deeply. It's not about "need" so much as it is about love, for us. Our codependency seems to result as a by product of the way the BPD seduces us. All the clinging laced with the adoration and constant positive attention produces the codependency in a rather "us against the world" way. It feels right and blissful in a way.  I was never a codependant person to that depth before.

I also feel the codependancy was cemented by our minds inability to register what was happening due to the rapid and chaotic cycling. It happens so fast and without reason.  I don't know too many people that put that much effort, adoration, and constant wanting to be with the one they "love"  (during idealization/seduction) only to do just the opposite there after. And then some.

My T used EMDR with me. I may get the full analogy of this partly wrong but she told that parts of our minds/psyche get literally "stuck" when we are traumatized.  This is one of the reasons we are so deeply entrenched with the emotions we feel over and over yet. EMDR works to desensitize and reprocess the feelings associated with the events that caused the trauma. It seemed to work to calm the anxiety I was feeling with the ruminations and triggerings.  I still deal with many of the same feelings we all do. But I try to remind me self that while I miss the person, I do NOT miss the chaos and drama and manipulations, etc.  I don't miss any of those feelings. I, too, wish for a recycle because there was no closure. And I just plainly miss someone I loved. But I remind myself of what my T has told me. Do I want to live in constant trauma, as i was while with my expBPD, or do I want to be in a healthy again. She sees patients who are in relationships like ours for years on end now, who deal with the same trauma we did, on a daily basis.  I remind myself of that when I feel the hurt and missing coming on.  I also remind myself that I am remembering only the good. Which felt SO good. But the bad was just as much of that person. Disordered or not. I try to remember that. I hope you can too. Its all very sad in the end, to have to think like some one I am not.

This is so much what I needed right now. I feel exactly the same way; I used to be incredibly strong and independent, and after a relationship with my ex-wife, who I really suspect may have had NPD, and my recent exgf, who was diagnosed (but, of course, refused to accept the diagnosis) with BPD, I am nearly incapable of surviving. I've had OCD and depression since I was a kid, but I dealt even with those like a pro. The BPD exgf nearly destroyed me, though.

I was fortunate enough to have a couple of EMDR sessions directly following the final break-up with my ex, but unfortunately haven't been able to afford therapy for almost the past year. I know it's imperative I figure out my situation and get back into therapy; it's gotten to the point where I now have trouble even writing, which always came naturally to me. I just can't handle my own feelings anymore.

[Infared]

Thank you caredverymuch and lettinggo14. It is a struggle beyond comprehension. Everyone here encourages us to work on OURSELVES. I use mindfulness, therapy, exercise, reading up on BPD, reading up on codependency, meditation (like mindfulness). I would think I get an "A" for effort in working on ME but the pain still persists. This relationship has rocked my foundation with issues of trust and self esteem. I don't know if other members here have been able to reflect back on their own childhoods and had an epiphany of sorts that has placed them on the right track towards recovery. I know that part of my struggle is withdrawal from addiction from the idealization that I so yearn to have back. I hope others can share their positive experiences with recovery.

I am in 12-step recovery. And everything you have said and are going thru I can identify with.

I still really hurt inside after years of NC. There is something about our make up that causes us to "choose" these people as partners. IMHO (or at least just in my case), when she got her new hero and split me black and re-wrote history... . I suffered severely. I think most of that suffering is all about me. Yes, I was treated horribly but the depth of the pain was literally almost unbearable.  It took me a year of counseling, group therapy and a strong 12-step program rooted in the blue book with a sponsor to force myself to go NC. This person lied, cheated, abandoned me and continually abused me in public whenever the opportunity presented (presents) itself with her new hero, yet I still longed/long for her. I think that my long, drawn out mirroring and idealization phase was like the most powerful drug I have ever known. People not built like me would not long for and miss someone who would treat them so horribly. I know that my behavior is very unhealthy, too... . so I work on that... it is basically all I can do.

Sounds like you are detaching from a similar situation of enmeshment.

[swimjim]

I know that their abusive actions are more important to realize than the label of whether or not they are actually BPD. While focusing on my own issues, I still cant help but realize that she MUST self reflect on her previous behavior towards me and regret it. I get stuck on this ruminating because that is what I would do, with lots of guilt and remorse and empathy. It is a hard pill to swallow to realize that they don't even give it a second thought. Then I wonder if my replacement is doing anything differently to avoid getting split black. See how easy it is to turn the focus back on them than ourselves. 

[LettingGo14]

See how easy it is to turn the focus back on them than ourselves. 

This AWARENESS is, in and of itself, a doorway.   You are very self-aware now, swimjim, and you ought to give yourself credit for that.  There's an acronym in a book by Tara Brach, called True Refuge, that may give you next steps.  The acronym is RAIN.

1. R:  Recognize (that is, become AWARE).

2. A:  Allow (that is, sit with the thoughts and emotions that arise in AWARENESS).

3. I:  Investigate (that is, what -- without indulging the story -- do the thoughts and emotions tell you?)

4. N:  Non-identify (this is hardest -- we can have thoughts and emotions that are REAL but NOT TRUE.   For instance, we think about the replacement, and have an attending thought and emotion.  Yet, we have no idea what's true.  Thoughts and emotions pass like the weather.  If we think of ourselves as the sky, we don't become identified solely with our passing thoughts and emotions).

[swimjim]

Thank you lettinggosoftly14. I will keep trying to focus on myself and my issues and learn more about rain. I am willing to try anything to get that peace of mind.