Schadenfreude

[Depression = 72% of members]

Schadenfreude is a beautiful, horrible thing. Even though I'm faintly disgusted at myself I cannot wipe the smug smirk off my face.

My uNPDexbf flunked his uni degree. This guy had crazy delusions of grandeur. Couldn't stand anyone being more successful than him. Loved to put me down. Made me very miserable. That was a year ago and in the meantime I have moved on, I did very well in uni, started a great career and have become very stable and happy, even able to weather my problems in new relationships without my optimism for the future fading. (With a lot of help from you guys )

So I am smug, and I am horrified at this. This guy hasn't been a part of my life for a long time, I don't care if he thinks of me, if he knows I'm doing well... . But I'm hugging this to myself and it's pretty weird and not that nice of me. So I wanted to list some ideas, and ask if any of you ever feel like this.

1. After having been told you're not that good at, well, life, for so long, it's nice to get the evidence that you are the functional one.

2. Having realised that I have ended up in a better place than my ex has put him in a position where, in my head, I can view him as pathetic, and it's turned the tables on my view of a guy who was vicious and controlling.

3. This is what I am actually concerned about: it feels like justice. It feels like he tried to stop me achieving my potential and now I am glad he didn't achieve his. Glad. I am trying to remind myself that he has loveable traits but is likely to have a serious mental disorder. But somehow in my head that doesn't change the way I see anything. I have never been able to tell myself 'well it must be terrible being him' because HE kept our friends and his dignity, I was the one devastated by breaking up with him. If he could recognise his problems and seek help I think I wouldn't feel this lingering dislike but I can't feel sympathy for someone I know has gone on to abuse other people after me.

(I should add that I know he won't actually be destitute or anything as a result of his failure, it is mostly a pride thing.)

I can radically accept these feelings, to some extent. I can say that it is an ugly emotion but I understand its root, and no matter what I feel he is totally gone from my life. (Even more so now that we're not going to be doing postgrad degrees together... . ) My negativity doesn't hurt him and so I can kind of accept that humans feel ugly emotions sometimes.

But I feel that to really, truly move on in every way, I should be rid of my schadenfreude. So my question to you - do you hate your exes? Ever feel vindicated when the truth comes out with unpleasant consequences for them? Do you think it's ok, can you radically accept that you feel these negative emotions or do you work out how you become more empathetic?

[Red Sky]

Schadenfreude is a beautiful, horrible thing. Even though I'm faintly disgusted at myself I cannot wipe the smug smirk off my face.

My uNPDexbf flunked his uni degree. This guy had crazy delusions of grandeur. Couldn't stand anyone being more successful than him. Loved to put me down. Made me very miserable. That was a year ago and in the meantime I have moved on, I did very well in uni, started a great career and have become very stable and happy, even able to weather my problems in new relationships without my optimism for the future fading. (With a lot of help from you guys )

So I am smug, and I am horrified at this. This guy hasn't been a part of my life for a long time, I don't care if he thinks of me, if he knows I'm doing well... . But I'm hugging this to myself and it's pretty weird and not that nice of me. So I wanted to list some ideas, and ask if any of you ever feel like this.

1. After having been told you're not that good at, well, life, for so long, it's nice to get the evidence that you are the functional one.

2. Having realised that I have ended up in a better place than my ex has put him in a position where, in my head, I can view him as pathetic, and it's turned the tables on my view of a guy who was vicious and controlling.

3. This is what I am actually concerned about: it feels like justice. It feels like he tried to stop me achieving my potential and now I am glad he didn't achieve his. Glad. I am trying to remind myself that he has loveable traits but is likely to have a serious mental disorder. But somehow in my head that doesn't change the way I see anything. I have never been able to tell myself 'well it must be terrible being him' because HE kept our friends and his dignity, I was the one devastated by breaking up with him. If he could recognise his problems and seek help I think I wouldn't feel this lingering dislike but I can't feel sympathy for someone I know has gone on to abuse other people after me.

(I should add that I know he won't actually be destitute or anything as a result of his failure, it is mostly a pride thing.)

I can radically accept these feelings, to some extent. I can say that it is an ugly emotion but I understand its root, and no matter what I feel he is totally gone from my life. (Even more so now that we're not going to be doing postgrad degrees together... . ) My negativity doesn't hurt him and so I can kind of accept that humans feel ugly emotions sometimes.

But I feel that to really, truly move on in every way, I should be rid of my schadenfreude. So my question to you - do you hate your exes? Ever feel vindicated when the truth comes out with unpleasant consequences for them? Do you think it's ok, can you radically accept that you feel these negative emotions or do you work out how you become more empathetic?

[heartandwhole]

Hi RedSky,

Great work, RedSky.  I admire your willingness to dig in here, I think it's great that you are looking at your feelings while also accepting them.

In my opinion, Schadenfreude is something most, if not all of us have felt at one time or another.  I know I have, and I'm not proud of it.  What I have been learning is that all feelings are okay.  They are just visitors, and are not who I am.  Resisting and judging them keeps them sticking around, in my experience.

I think you are being very wise and mature in accepting these difficult feelings, and while I understand the revulsion to this smug "justice," I hope you won't judge yourself for it.  It may have originated from past pain, but doesn't necessarily mean that you really want your ex to hurt, too.  When I allow myself to feel difficult emotions deeply, without judgment, what inevitably happens is that I find a core of love at the source of them – every one of them. 

I don't always reach that place, mind you.  And I don't believe it's "better" to feel one emotion over another.  They feel how they feel.  And then they go. 

I definitely don't hate pwBPD, I truly wish good things for him.  Do I sometimes feel smug, sorry for myself, like a victim – yes.  Is that a problem?  No, because there is something that embraces it all: the good, the bad, and the ugly

This one-up feeling may very well be superficial.  What do you feel is at the deep root of your Schadenfreude, RedSky? 

[Red Sky]

Basically I accept that I will never fully understand what's going on in my head. I think that having been treated badly for so long and heard so many unkind things that I internalised, it is impossible to avoid having bad memories. Over time, the memories don't feel like a punch in the gut to recall but they are still unpleasant. He did them. No matter what the reason for his actions, he said the unkind words, he raised his hand to me. And I think that you can't control something in your brain, something visceral which says 'he did bad things, you should hate him.' Like a defence mechanism. The way we feel pain as a warning we are sustaining damage, I think that the hate is like a defence mechanism. A reflex. And on that basis I'm sort of willing to feel what I feel.

My mother once told me that thoughts don't hurt people, it's how you act on those thoughts. He is gone. Anything I do as a result of these thoughts, consciously or subconsciously, really only affects me. I ask the question of whether I should work on my empathy as a matter of self improvement, but I think I do have empathy in spades. I don't hate any other exes. I don't and have never hated anyone before.

Maybe I mean I hate his PD, but it's such a part of him that I can't see it as separate from him. I can't bear to know that he hasn't changed, and is horrible to people I used to be friends with. I would like him to get help though. I could forgive, in my own head, if I knew that he had understood how bad his behaviour was from the fact that his long term girlfriend left the country then NC'd him. As I identified... . If his life was truly wrecked and not just his pride, I wouldn't gloat. So maybe you are correct that it is fairly superficial.

I think my feelings manifest as hating the person he is WITH the PD. But I'm not in touch with him... . The relationship is done... . I don't know what he will do, who he will become, I am left with the picture I have in my head NOW.

And that picture looks better when I get to go 'I won! I won!'

[fromheeltoheal]

I was in a relationship years ago with a gal, no personality disorder, although she left me for another guy, who was blatantly hitting on her when we were together, and she married him.  I don't really blame her, it wasn't working for us, but I do blame him, and I never liked the guy anyway, a fat, lazy hothead if you ask me.  Well, he had a heart attack recently.  Schadenfreude baby!  I'm glad it happened, couldn't have happened to a shttier guy.  I don't feel bad about feeling good about it either.  Maybe there're some deep emotions I haven't discovered yet, but for now the world is a better place.

[Red Sky]

Heh. Well I'm still wallowing in a mixture of schadenfreude and relief that I will no longer be attending the same uni as my ex next year!

What I have been learning is that all feelings are okay.  They are just visitors, and are not who I am.  Resisting and judging them keeps them sticking around, in my experience.

This sticks in my head. The feeling icky over my pleasure is coming a) from the feeling that I may have more work to do on letting go of what happened and b) from how others would judge me if they knew how I was feeling.

I spent years not hating him for his abusive behavior. If I could go back in time I don't think I would or could have given him more love than I did. Good luck to him and whatever he does that isn't a PhD.

[AwakenedOne]

So my question to you - do you hate your exes? Ever feel vindicated when the truth comes out with unpleasant consequences for them? Do you think it's ok, can you radically accept that you feel these negative

I feel that anger and dislike can be good if kept in check. It keeps us away from them if they try to recycle us. Hate is not good though in my opinion.

My ex caused me much pain in so many ways. Hating her now doesn't make me feel good. I dont have to love her, like her or talk to her ever again though. I plan to never speak to her ever.

I have moments of being angry. This is natural, she F'd me over in so many ways.

My situation is different. She has a successful career, very high functioning. I am in survival mode. She took everying and left me to flounder. I am not looking to turn the tables though and compete, I couldn't even if I tried.

My goal is to get her out of my mind. I dont care at all if she succeeds or not. She forced me to quit college by dumping me and taking everying including the car. Success to me now is overcoming my obstacles, making a difference in some positive way on this earth and never going back to my abuser.

[goldylamont]

Basically I accept that I will never fully understand what's going on in my head.

... . The relationship is done... . I don't know what he will do, who he will become, I am left with the picture I have in my head NOW.

And that picture looks better when I get to go 'I won! I won!'

i think i know what's going on in your head, maybe? because i'm going through the same thing. i read this post a few days ago and then a word popped into my head--i think you are well along the path, but not completely done Forgiving him.

in our society the word forgiveness has been diluted and used the wrong way. if you listen to how many speak, supposedly they are able to 'forgive' others for the most atrocious acts in no time flat. as in "my ex did this and that truly horrible thing. i'm still terribly traumatized, but i've forgiven them... . ". my idea of forgiveness is a bit different than most though, takes longer to achieve but i feel is more rooted in our own strength. i feel like we are pressured in society to put on this passive/peaceful front and 'forgive' people when we don't even really understand what it means.

the most beautiful explanation i've heard for forgiving: Forgiveness occurs when you know that the person who abused you can no longer hurt you, and when you choose to no longer hurt them.

i'll try and find where i got this from. but i love this definition. it puts the power back in our hands. when we are still attached to being the victim (rightfully so) from abuse, full forgiveness isn't possible. over time and with growth, we realize that this person cannot hurt us anymore. we are stronger and even if they tried they couldn't hurt us. and, the final stage of forgiveness occurs when you would choose to not hurt this person back, even if with your new-found strength you could do so.

put another way, which puts the power in our hands: Forgiveness occurs when we are ready to show mercy and not seek to hurt those who have hurt us. -- I love the idea of showing mercy here. This places us in the position of making a decision to show mercy for someone who once held great power over us. The moment where we are able to truthfully be merciful to an old enemy shows immense strength on our part--because this shows that it's impossible for them to hurt us any more, regardless of what they do.

Think about the concept of you having mercy on this person. Isn't it so powerful? It flips the scripts and gives you the power to decide when you are ready.

So RedSky when I read about your Schadenfreude it just makes me think that you are in the latter stages of Forgiveness. You've come a long way in a sense because you're already able to see how weak this person really is. You are doing well yourself and see your own strength, and his weakness. You see him in pain and it confirms and strengthens your sense of righteousness in the world. And this is perfectly fine--you're just ahead of the game because you sense the next stage about to occur for you.

Right now you're not ready to show full mercy to this person. Honestly though RedSky, i wouldn't worry so much about it. At least you are gaining power and resolve for yourself. And i believe because you are so introspective about this, because you have to ability to question your beliefs and look at your own ego objectively, that you'll be just fine. As time passes and your power grows you will feel safe enough and strong enough to have mercy on him. To reach full forgiveness. Bless his stupid little heart, you'll forgive fully one day  

[Red Sky]

As ever Goldy, you are wise and manage to put the things that I can't express into words.

Yes, I love your definition. I don't forgive him yet. In the relationship I showed him mercy. I truly forgave again and again. So I guess that the change to hate, and feeling happiness at him hurting a little bit, was maybe just what my head needed to get away. Just what AwakenedOne has said. So yep, I'm still totally wallowing in schadenfreude, but I guess I'll get over it eventually.


The idea of power is very significant to me but I've never quite been able to articulate it. Yes, I felt like he took my power, and for some reason admitting I let a man make me feel powerless - especially a man who I forgave, showed mercy for, so many times - is so cringey and unfeminist. It's like I always kind of knew I had that power, and as a result his walking all over me was even more degrading. And this quantifiable assertion that I have done better in life, after years of him trying to convince me he was superior, it is a total power flip for me.

'Bless his stupid little heart'... . This made me laugh out loud. It fits him so, so well. Puts him in his place so well. I will love and remember your definition but I will cherish this phrase :P

[Blimblam]

I like these deep notions of forgiveness.  I think forgiveness is a process for sure.  One I think I am only really learning now.  Once I can work though all of this I think only then will I know what it is to forgive.  I think what is quite often  thrown around as forgiveness is really just power plays.  The flip side is I think people that forgive easily often just do not care enough to have anything to let go of.  I don't know if that is narcissistic or detached in a Buddhist sense though.