Does he truly hate me?

[crushed_to_pieces]

I'm having a hard time this morning. I was getting ready for work watching TV and saw my exBPDfiance come on the screen... . he is broadcasting live with his radio show this morning for a World Cup viewing party, so the TV crew was out there interviewing him and his co-host.

In an instant my heart sank. Just seeing him... . hearing his voice. It took the breath right out of me.

I hate how he comes across so likeable and funny, and no one has a clue what he's like in private. People feel sorry for him that his engagement didn't work out... . I can only imagine what he tells everyone to gain sympathy. I remember the things he used to tell me about his other exes. It angers me that he carries everything out on such a public platform.

It was only 2 weeks ago that we were supposed to get married... . how can he be so fine? Why isn't he hurting like me? Is he really that happy? Is it all a facade? I haven't heard from him since he asked for the engagement ring back a couple weeks ago - the very week of our wedding (even though he ended things in February). I was so extremely sick inside and felt like the pain was suffocating me and I couldn't hold back anymore, so I let it all out in an email. Of course it was returned with a hateful, spiteful email, and I was simply devastated.

Do BPDs erase all happy memories in their minds? Does he not remember all the ways I loved him? The depth of my love? All the things I did to try and make him happy? How can he not miss that? I feel like I fight my memories all day long... . and he is able to dismiss everything we had. Does he truly hate me?

I'm just so sad this morning

[enlighten me]

Hi Crushed

What you need to remember is that they've been dealing with this for a lot longer that you. The more something happens the more numb you become to it or the quicker you get over it.

I don't believe BPDs hate us. They hate the emotions we cause them. They hate the fact they you remind them of what they've done and the guilt that goes with it.

Think of it as the morning after a drunken night out where you know you made a fool of yourself. You might not go out for a while or dread to bump into people who may have witnessed your embarrassing antics. That is the closest in my mind that I can associate how a BPD feels with an ex.

No the happy memories remain that's why they recycle. Unfortunately (or fortunately depending on your desires) recycling doesn't last because you remind them of the guilt they had for everything they put you through and that overpowers the good times.

[crushed_to_pieces]

Enlighten Me,

Thank you so much for your response and for helping me put things in perspective. I understand the things you say, I just have such a difficult time understanding their behavior, therefore, it's so difficult to accept.

I was doing a bit better this week and now feel like I'm falling apart again.

I want to be "numb" like him. I don't want to care anymore. I don't want to love him anymore. I don't want to remember anymore. I know this is impossible, but I feel desperate to stop the pain.

[qwaszx]

It was only 2 weeks ago that we were supposed to get married... . how can he be so fine? Why isn't he hurting like me? Is he really that happy? Is it all a facade? I haven't heard from him

since he asked for the engagement ring back a couple weeks ago - the very week of our wedding (even though he ended things in February). I was so extremely sick inside and felt like the pain was suffocating me and I couldn't hold back anymore, so I let it all out in an email. Of course it was returned with a hateful, spiteful email, and I was simply devastated.

Do BPDs erase all happy memories in their minds? Does he not remember all the ways I loved him? The depth of my love? All the things I did to try and make him happy? How can he not miss that? I feel like I fight my memories all day long... . and he is able to dismiss everything we had. Does he truly hate me?

I'm just so sad this morning

Hey, I'm sorry your hurting, it's all really confusing and devastating... . I really feel for what I've gone through, I know the feelings... it's horrible to have someone you loved and trusted betray you to that's depth, to see them carrying on like nothing has happened, like all efforts were in vain... it's hard for us to understand, because our emotions don't jump from one extreme to the next, which is a good thing, but it leaves us wondering wth just happened, and trying to make sense of a situation that doesn't emotionally make sense...

He may believe he does hate you, but these are the emotions of a child, it's the same reaction a mother would get when she tells her child "no" he can't have that candy, and he gets angry... at that moment he doesn't see her as a loving mother(even if she was the greatest mother in the world to him 5 mins ago, all the loving and good thing go out the window, because he can only feel one emotion at a time) but as a mean uncaring mother that he feels he hates. This is not personal but the disorder and black and white thinking...

[crushed_to_pieces]

Thank you, qwaszx. I so appreciate every bit of feedback and input I get on these boards. When the pain is so thick, it's hard to see clearly. I feel like i need to continuously be reminded of the thought process, or lack thereof, with this disorder, because their way of thinking is so foreign to me.

[patientandclear]

CTP -- exactly.  You can't process his actions as if they meant what they would mean if you engaged in them.  Things are not what they appear to be on the surface with him.  Unfortunately of course that also applies to what appeared to be so wonderful at the beginning.  That was not more straightforward and real than this part.

Like many here I've been very moved by your story.  I'm pretty sure things imploded at first and then again down the road because he was scared.  Scared of being hurt if he continued to be close to you.  That's usually what's at work in these dynamics and in your case in particular, that's what I see in the events before the wedding date.

After the breakup when he seemed to be reconsidering and you were trying to be warm and encouraging, he kept having these swings back and forth, and it sounds like that triggered you (I had the exact same reaction to my ex withdrawing AGAIN after he left me for reasons that made no sense, then reconsidered, then reconsidered his reconsideration ... . by that time my body was in full fight or flight mode, I couldn't sleep, was hyper alert -- I knew I was going to be hurt so badly again, I just couldn't be mellow and relaxed and let it play out).  So you communicated to him that he needed to get clear and consistent if he wanted for you still to engage with him -- which makes total sense and is a completely reasonable request.  But I suspect to him this meant "she will not put up with the way I am indefinitely and at some point I am going to lose her."  And that prompted him to bring down the hammer, request the ring back and so on.

Having said that, if it weren't those exact ingredients, there would have been another source of fear for him arising from your relationship.  Fear of loss, but if not that, fear of being trapped.  You can't stay on the edge of that knife blade for very long before falling off one way or the other.

Whatever the exact underlying fear that drove him to push you away, there is then an explanation that his defenses provide for what he's doing and deciding.  An explanation that makes it not his fault; and likely, he is the victim and you are the wrong doer who hurt him.  This is just the mechanism that allows him to continue.  It isn't "true" -- but he, or parts of him, may become quite persuaded of it because it works well to allow him to continue on without total collapse.

Many of us see over time, though, that the pwBPD we've been involved in have multiple parts (one researcher, Jeffrey Young, calls them modes) which see things differently.  Almost like different personalities.  Which is why regret and a deeper knowledge sometimes surface and cause them intense discomfort with their defenses' "cover stories."  Plus, by then they are likely dissatisfied with their new arrangements (whether they are alone and lonely, or they are with a new person who now is triggering them as you once did).  So at that point, there may be some passing reconsideration, reevaluation, shift in positions about whether you were really the problem they'd said you were.

There is no one answer to a question like "does he really hate me."  Whatever the answer is it will change.  And there will be the "real" feeling, or several of them; but then there will be the manipulative stance designed to move you into the position he prefers for you to be in -- more accessible to him, less in his field of vision, whatever.  Point is, what is said may be for effect, not because he deeply means it ... .

There is not a deep unchanging reality here, I guess is my point.  He is managing chaotic and often painful feelings using the tools he's had for a long time (like most of us do).  Devaluation has a prime place in his tool kit.  But once that has done its job, it will probably give way to other views of you that allow you to shift to another role in his emotional ecosystem.  Many people here have said strong condemning things to their pwBPD and been "painted black" ... . only to find 6-12 months down the road that the pwBPD has a miraculous new perspective on it all.  But that doesn't stay that way, either.

[patientandclear]

One more thing: I'm pretty sure when your guy demanded the ring back, that was less about "anger" and more about it being the only thing he felt he could "make" you do. You were slipping out of his control with your "get it together or I can't stick around" message. You can't be allowed to be out of his control. Demanding the ring back on threat of legal action--well, he thought he'd at least be able to manifest some control there.

My ex requested an item back from me about 6 weeks after he brutally ended our theretofore beautiful r/s. Even at the time, without knowing about projection and BPD, I had this sense that he was inverting responsibility for the breakup. It was the kind of petulant gesture someone who had been LEFT would make, not someone who did the leaving, who might want to be a little magnanimous. It took me a while to really get that he DID feel that I'd left him. Completely counterfactual. He poleaxed me out of the blue and I all but begged him to change his mind. Apparently the fact that I stopped short of begging, and moved into a superficial picture of acceptance quickly, wasn't how it was supposed to go. We were just getting started on round two after all--the next chapter after re breakup! It's just that I didn't know the script and believed him that he was done. I think this is the dynamic around your ring. You got to the point of "fish or cut bait" and he doesn't like that. This is the one thing he has some sort of prerogative to get you to answer him.

[topknot]

Omg patientandclear, you have described my life. Yes, I so absolutely called him on his flirtatious behavior,  his women conversations, etc. Even my 86 year old mom took her cane and poked us at a dinner party and called him out on his flirting. My mom is the matriarch of our family, and when she speaks you better listen. He just said to Mom, I didn't even know her name. I said that makes it even worse. I agree he knew I was on to his behavior and I wasn't going to stand for it. So they have to leave and make it all your fault. I will keep your post to read again and again - thank you:)

[antjs]

I want to be "numb" like him. I don't want to care anymore. I don't want to love him anymore. I don't want to remember anymore. I know this is impossible, but I feel desperate to stop the pain.

My healing process is not over yet but i know that it gets better day by day. and no you are not gonna be numb. you do not want to be a numb cause a person full of great emotions is a person who is lovely. i would rather say that you want to be indifferent towards him. trust me, you will reach this point one day if you stayed NC.


A lot of people think that the opposite of love is hate. not true. the opposite of love is indifference. one day you will feel indifferent towards him. but you will care, love and remember a healthy partner in the future which he will not be able to do cause he is not capable of love. trust me you do not want to be "like him". During the early days i felt its really unfair and my ex is out having fun with her new supply and i am here sitting ruminating. Healing leads to growth and wisdom and happiness later if you really loved and promised yourself that you are going to make the best out of your life. He will continue his pattern in search of "happiness" which he will not be able to find without acknowledging that he needs therapy. no one can save him except for himself.

[Karmachameleon]

I can so relate to this.  My ex is also somewhat of a public figure and loved by lots of people who don't know him.  He can post anything on Facebook about "toxic relationships" or "crazy exes" and get 100 likes in 5 minutes and tons of people encouraging him and telling him to "do you" and "forget about the haters" or whatever.  He clearly wants everyone to know that he hates me and feeds on the reinforcement he gets.  Reading it would tear my heart out, but I couldn't stop.  I loved him so much and did so much for him.  Stood by him, encouraged him, did fun things with him, made him part of a family that he always wanted, etc, etc.  I have managed to stop looking at his Facebook page, which has taken a lot of self control on my part, but there will always be times I have to accidentally see him or hear about him like you did on TV.  I feel that stabbing pain in my heart just thinking about it.  I don't really have any advice because I'm in your same boat, but just wanted to respond and let you know you're not alone.  I've been NC for a month now and there isn't a second of the day that I don't think about him. I want it to go away.  I know I have to move on, but my heart won't catch up with my brain.  I know what you're going through.  My brain keeps trying to figure out possible scenarios where we could work things out and be together and I know how ridiculous and impossible that is.  Makes me so mad at myself and sad at the same time.  I can only guess that it gradually goes away with time.  In the meantime I have just given myself permission to keep loving him until I don't anymore because fighting it makes me feel crazy.

[strong9]

Based on my experience, if it helps, they do indeed hate you but like the OP said, the way my 6 year old hates me when I tell him he has to stop bothering his sister. And they love you the way my 6 year old loves me when he needs to cuddle or gets an advance on his allowance. It is how they soothe themselves and make sense of their feelings.  You must be evil/good. In fact, when I caught my wife on her affair the last time, without admitting it, she did state that I must think she is evil and deserved punishment (she won't spend money or go out and would live wherever I wanted). They then project that on you.

My uBPDw has done the following with me:

1. Picked my nose (no really) and then cried and told me to leave her and then gone out of her way to sit next to me at my son's music recital and suggested I donate to the music program, all in a span of 10 minutes.

2.  Told me my telling her I love her disgusted her and that our marriage sucked but that we can have a real marriage going forward. 

3.  Told me I ruined her life by deflowering her when she earlier said she'd always remember me fondly as her first.

4.  Said we were all done and the next day disturbingly came up to me on my day for the kids' school drop off and picked at my teeth with her nails because "something was stuck" in them. (I know, she has no sense of personal space for the various cavities on my head  .)

The only time I am black for a long period is when she is with family, friends or possibly another man for extended periods of time - ie, when she has some other person to enable her victim status. And that can only happen when she leaves the country because we just moved back home and she has no friends here. She is very quiet and aloof here (she only had a blanket and two pillows in her house for 2 months and slept on the floor - no other furniture whatsoever). Plus when I am away there is no object constancy and it is easy to hate the man she sometimes views as the world's greatest dad and her savior.

Last time she left she told me she would tell her family it was all her doing and she'd back in 5 days (it has been 3 months and no contact). A week later I heard she claimed I would stare at her at my kids' school dropoff (again black from afar). I found this humorous given the teeth picking event and because the night before she left she parked outside my house for 2 hours waiting for my kids and me to return from the movies and only bothering to tell me an hour and 45 minutes in to her vigil.

Take note: she claims to be happy now. You don't go from that behavior to happy in 3 months.

Finally, my daughter says she hates her mom because she has abandoned her and because she obviously hates my daughter (ie, my daughter feels shame and feels she is worthy of hate, otherwise her mom would be with her).  That's exactly how my wife thinks and your BPD too. But my daughter is 11 and our SOs are adults, at least in body and maybe intellectually.

Not all pwBPD are as erratic as my wife but given our unique circumstances I think it provides a good insight as to how irrational and shallow their hatred is and how environment can change it as well. I hope that helps you depersonalize it.